You're the Queen - Now What? [CK2ish Character-Focused Quest]

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Shine said:
Even beyond associating with the Greedfather, post the overthrow of a king noted to levy extraordinary taxes…

I think mentioning the Estates is important. Out position is extremely tenuous; we want to show the nobility we're willing to play. Immediately focussing on what we want therefore seems hazardous, especially if it seems to be to the exclusion of their desires.
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Tax increases are really not what the plan says, yes Ordedus has the name "The Greedfather" and "The Lord of Gold" but he is the God of Trade, Wealth and Cities. It is not the kind of greed that disadvantages others, but rather the greed of seizing opportunities.
As I said, trade is down, we have to fix it no matter what we decide here, it's too important, speeches like this should give people a perspective on what they can expect from us right now.
Ordinary people are particularly interested in basic needs like food, I imagine the prices are not appealing right now.
The people we are giving the speech to are rich and or live in cities, the current situation is harming them.
Our finances are bad but everyone we talk to has the same problem, the plan will not be badly received.

Furthermore, the Estates do not need any assurance that we will respect them.
They just won a civil war and appointed us as a puppet.
Their idea of balance between Crown and Estates at this moment sees us as a figurehead.
We can't promise them to leave it that way, we need room for maneuver to address problems, otherwise we'll just be blamed for failure.
 
[x] Plan New Gods
-[x][BENEDICTION] The High Priestess of Traven, as your reign is a rebirth of Halrun under a new dynasty, and a renewal of the previous laws and customs that Syrokis cast aside. Unconventional, but could be a clear signal to progressive nobles and popular with many ex-rebels.
-[x][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on your desire to get Halrun right with the Gods, for clearly Syrokis lost all divine favor.
-[x][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on your intention to bring justice going forward, to see none abuse their powers or fail to live up to their duties, regardless of station.
 
T.T said:
Tax increases are really not what the plan says, yes Ordedus has the name "The Greedfather" and "The Lord of Gold" but he is the God of Trade, Wealth and Cities. It is not the kind of greed that disadvantages others, but rather the greed of seizing opportunities.
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Without wanting to sound like I'm supporting one vote over another (I'm not), I can confirm that Ordedus - as conceived of by most Tamildan speaking people anyway - is the sort of god who would look at things like Gordon Gecko's "Greed is Good" speech as a largely positive thing, and would agree with Adam Smith about people acting in their own self-interest (albeit, judiciously, Adam Smith wasn't a fan of selfishness to the point of destructiveness), etc.

Now, of course, people who don't like merchants and trade and so on may still look at this form of self-interest as being 'too greedy', but that's not quite the same thing.
 
I have always been quite positive about medieval trade because the connection between trade and transport of goods is stronger than it is today.
Sure some priests and some city folk may grumble about prices, but at the end of the day they both eat food every day that doesn't grow in the city.
Farmers grow food and provide for the population, but without traders the goods do not reach the places where they are needed.
I like the comparison between a country and the human body in this context.
Trade routes are the blood veins and trade itself is the lifeblood. The organs would then probably be the cities, but I don't want to get lost in the comparison now. 😅
What I mean by that right now we're barely alive and we should change that.
 
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The Character Index is now fully updated, including Rienne (as High Marshall) and the other 'prebuilt' General. Obviously you have other generals and commanders, but Rienne, Jaras and Lucas are the big ones right now. More can and likely will be added in later. And of course, as more notable characters emerge, they'll be added to the index as we go.
 
Honestly, even beyond the fact that safety is more important than well-being, and it was the lack of a sense of safety that caused most to join the rebellion, which means for most, this is a big one of their worries regarding the new queen... We need to keep Vanessa far away from everything that has "Greed" in the title. Be it magic, people or gods.
 
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Eternal_0bserver said:
Honestly, even beyond the fact that safety is more important than well-being, and it was the lack of a sense of safety that caused most to join the rebellion, which means for most, this is a big one of their worries regarding the new queen... We need to keep Vanessa far away from everything that has "Greed" in the title. Be it magic, people or gods.
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I would say the plan is even for our own safety. Right now we have no value that is not interchangeable.
We just signed a bunch of things that were presented to us, we had no say in it, but it's our decree.
If something goes wrong with it, it's not the problem of the people who decided it, it's our problem.
This can't continue, we have to find a way to stop being a puppet.
The solution I propose is to provide value that people respect, a return to prosperity.
Then we have a negotiating position from which we can have a say in what is enacted and we don't wait to become someone's sacrificial lamb.
 
T.T said:
The solution I propose is to provide value that people respect, a return to prosperity.
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There is nothing that stops us from working on trade even if it isn't a part of our speech.

And I wouldn't say were a poppet, we might not be an absolute monarch but after the coronation we will have quite a bit of soft power and hard power.
 
uri said:
There is nothing that stops us from working on trade even if it isn't a part of our speech.
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We have already given a general speech, the speech we are giving now should contain more substance.
If we do it anyway, why don't announce it, we're making a promise that we want to keep anyway.
We should take advantage of success and seize opportunities when they arise.

Kylia Quilor said:
"It is with great honor and humility I come before you today," Vanessa said, "having considered your offer and your terms - the Crown of Halrun, with the approval of the Estates, and in turn approval of the edicts the Estates have passed to address the many woes this Kingdom has faced in the days since Syrokis violated all laws and customs that had once held the peace. I came to Halrun a young woman, a mage looking to make her mark on the world, and rise above her baseborn status. I joined the cause of rebellion against Syrokis, and stayed with that cause all the way to the end, without desire beyond justice for the Kingdom, and punishment for Syrokis's many crimes."

That's fudging the truth, and you know it.

"I know I'm a compromise candidate, one picked because you couldn't agree on a more conventional choice, one of legitimate noble birth, or claim to the Griffin Throne by blood. But ancient noble blood does run through my veins, and as a student of the Archmage Cyril, I trace my tutelage back to a great hero of the Dawning Wars. If it is still the will of the assembled Estates of the Realm, I accept the offer of the throne, and all the duties and burdens associated with it, and all the conditions and terms you have attached to the offer."
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uri said:
And I wouldn't say were a poppet, we might not be an absolute monarch but after the coronation we will have quite a bit of soft power and hard power.
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We are nowhere, no allies, no faction, just appointed and I wouldn't be sure that the "proposed" laws would just stop.
The estates consist of clergy, nobility and citizens/merchants.
Merchants would probably be very supportive and we would build a lot of goodwill.
The nobility is probably just as broke as we are and also needs money and would benefit.
The clergy wouldn't be against it either, it's not Christianity, we can even say we do it in the name of a god.
 
T.T said:
I would say the plan is even for our own safety. Right now we have no value that is not interchangeable.
We just signed a bunch of things that were presented to us, we had no say in it, but it's our decree.
If something goes wrong with it, it's not the problem of the people who decided it, it's our problem.
This can't continue, we have to find a way to stop being a puppet.
The solution I propose is to provide value that people respect, a return to prosperity.
Then we have a negotiating position from which we can have a say in what is enacted and we don't wait to become someone's sacrificial lamb.
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The security of the kingdom and the security of the monarch are inextricably linked. And although many people want prosperity, in this situation it is much more important, in my opinion, to convey to people that the new queen will not pursue personal goals to the detriment of the interests of the state. In this regard, I feel that choosing Ordedus may send the wrong signal, especially looking at Vanessa's flaw.

And while I support the plan to increase the Queen's influence, this is not a goal that should even be hinted at in public debate. If the aristocracy decides that Vanessa seeks to reduce their power or rely on another class, she could quite quickly "die tragically at the hands of the usurper's
loyalists." Moreover, there is already a potential replacement for her on the Council.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
The security of the kingdom and the security of the monarch are inextricably linked. And although many people want prosperity, in this situation it is much more important, in my opinion, to convey to people that the new queen will not pursue personal goals to the detriment of the interests of the state. In this regard, I feel that choosing Ordedus may send the wrong signal, especially looking at Vanessa's flaw.

And while I support the plan to increase the Queen's influence, this is not a goal that should even be hinted at in public debate. If the aristocracy decides that Vanessa seeks to reduce their power or rely on another class, she could quite quickly "die tragically at the hands of the usurper's
loyalists." Moreover, there is already a potential replacement for her on the Council.
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The will of a medieval state does not exist, only the will of interest groups. (They are not even real states, lack of constitution and institutions)
As far as I can see they are the following:
monarch
merchants
nobility
clergy
common people (often politically irrelevant without representation)
independent actors (you can't plan for them, their interests are too diverse)

I think that the plan will be received well or neutrally by everyone for the reasons mentioned.
I don't see why we should be deposed if we want in a name of God of the pantheon restore infrastructure and provide prosperity for everyone present.
I'm really trying to understand the thought process, but according to that logic we can never ride without training wheels without being murdered.

Edit:
I'll explain it as I see it, maybe someone can explain to me where my mistake is:
You are a middle-power aristocrat in a country that has just come out of a civil war.
The estates have chosen a new queen and she is currently giving her coronation speech.
She speaks of rebuilding and striving for future prosperity for all (present)
What is your reaction?
A: An obvious grab for power ordered her murder.
B: I wish her luck and I hope she succeeds quickly. My balance sheet doesn't look good after the whole war and my country is devastated.

2.Edit:
Nobody will ever buy our selflessness, that's not how the system works.
It's better if we show them that we are pursuing a comprehensible goal that doesn't have to harm them.
We are not raising taxes, we are just announcing that we want to rebuild trade as quickly as possible for the benefit of everyone.
 
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[X] Plan: Queen and Country
-[X][BENEDICTION] The High Priest of Alior, for as Queen, you are the Protector and Guardian of your people, and you intend to let nothing harm or threaten them.
-[X][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on your intention to bring justice going forward, to see none abuse their powers or fail to live up to their duties, regardless of station.
-[X][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on the need for unity, for gathering together as one greater whole to rebuild.

rough idea is to be so beloved by the lower and middle class (most likely through economic prosperity, but other avenues are open to us) as a sort of "Mother to All" that any attempt by the nobility to overthrow us would all but cause a new civil war. this way we have loads of soft power if we ever need to force through anything unpopular with the nobles.
no idea if the logic tracks but i tried.
 
I understand what is trying to be achieved, but I think it doesn't quite work.
Lets take this opportunity to talk about the way of government. please @Kylia Quilor correct me if my assumptions are wrong

We have a feudal monarchy, which means the contract between vassals and rulers is the basis.
(in a absolute monarchy, the Estates would not have such great power and the nobility would serve as administrators and not as rulers in their own right)
Each vassal has its own contract that regulates its rights and obligations towards the feudal lord. Vassals can have lower ranking vassals under the same system.
Such a contract also exists with the two free cities, whereby the contractual partner is the city itself and the mayor is the representative.

There is a middle class in these cities and also in the capital, but it is rather small, which was normal before the emergence of large manufacturers and especially before industrialization.
This middle class is formed almost exclusively around trade and with strong Estates I would actually call them upper class.
The clergy probably as well as all magicians are also in the upper class.

The remaining 90% are lower class perhaps 10% workers in cities and 80% farmers.
Now because we have a feudal system and there is talk about levies, I strongly assume that we have enshrined serfdom in law.
As a form of slavery, serfdom disempowers most of the population.
People are considered part of the land they cultivate and have very little freedom.
We probably won't be able to change that, the nobility is far too much for it and controls the military from the officers to the generals.
The only form of political participation they can accomplish is to revolt, but peasant revolts have a very low success rate.
That's why I think we can't rely on them, we have to derive our influence from our relationship with the estates, they are the only ones that really count.
 
This is more or less accurate, yes. There's also a bunch of free towns that don't rise to the level of "Free City" (because they're only ~1000 people and thus didn't have as much leverage when negotiating with Teran Halrun) but don't have any intermediate lord between themselves and the Monarch, and they serve as the basis for the rural Gentry, who are also a form of the middle class.

The Common rural People of Halrun are not serfs - they have less rights than a modern citizen would, of course, but they're not bound to the land (this is because the region was settled by refugees and settlers over the last few hundred years, so freedom of movement for peasants was essential to attract more settlers in the first place). The Common people were of course the majority of the armies on both sides, either conscripted, paid or levy, though by the end they'd flocked more certainly towards the rebels.

I wouldn't say the lower classes are powerless - revolts may not be very successful, but riots, work stoppages, and other such efforts absolutely can cause major problems for a Kingdom. So you don't want to completely alienate them, and in theory, a monarch could rally the lower classes against the elites (See: Nerinthar) but it would be difficult, so I'd say they're not political nonentities, but not the central pivot of the political scene.

But historically, the path to Absolutism has been to weild the commons against the nobility. Whether or not Halrun is in a position to do that is an open question - it's certainly a viable strategy.
 
Clockwokis said:
[X] plan: Magic and development

[X][BENEDICTION] The High Cleric of Celiesta, as you are a mage of great power, and a student of Archmage Cyril. Magic was how you earned your claim to the throne, and magic will be the basis of your rule

[X][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on your desires and intentions for future prosperity for all of Halrun, put emphasis on road development and economic development.

magic is clearley our strongsuit and part of the reason we got the crown in the first place, and rebuilsing the economy and infastructure after a bloody civil war should make for good intentions to the nobility and commoners alike
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For the plan to be counted properly by the vote tally system, you need to structure it like this

Code: 
[x]Plan: Plan Name
-[X]Item 1
-[X]Item 2
-[X]Item 3
 
Kylia Quilor said:
So, I've only run a few quests, and I'm wondering - was there something wrong with the way I set out the choices? Is the purpose of the choices not clear, or...? If I've done something that's making people have no ideas, or even questions, I'm not doing my job as QM right.
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Personal what happened on my end is that it was the last quest post i read that night, so i intended to read my options the next day and vote...then got busy and distracted xD;
 
Since we can choose two focuses for the speech..how about this? @Clockwokis

[x] plan: Magic and development (v2?)
- [x][BENEDICTION] The High Cleric of Celiesta, as you are a mage of great power, and a student of Archmage Cyril. Magic was how you earned your claim to the throne, and magic will be the basis of your rule
- [x][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on Yourself, Your Past, Your Fitness and Worthiness to Rule, and why the Estates Picked You (Without bringing up the 'Compromise candidate' aspect)
- [x][CORONATION SPEECH] Focus on your desires and intentions for future prosperity for all of Halrun, put emphasis on road development and economic development.
 
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