That's not really that clear cut. Both Amethysts and Light could both come from mystery cults.
Of course, cults does have a particular meaning in Warhammer Fantasy, which a mystery cult may or may not overlap that well with.
[WHF] The Broken Mirror - A Divided Loyalties Peggy Sue
That's not really that clear cut. Both Amethysts and Light could both come from mystery cults.
Of course, cults does have a particular meaning in Warhammer Fantasy, which a mystery cult may or may not overlap that well with.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
My current position is that Mathilde doesn't have a clear cut answer available to her. If you decide to go in search of one or try and teach Emanuel to use Ulgu that could change - or if someone can provide something more definitive that would reasonably be known to Mathilde as part of standard history.
Them recruiting Shyish users from among the Cult of Morr is likely, and certainly is claimed to have happened - but it could happen whether or not the two types of casting came from the same mutation - after all the lay members of the Cult will be soaked in Shyish, and might well use the same lesser magics as the Cult of Morr in similar ways. Some members of the cult of Morr being Morrite casters and others being Shyish casters would be perfectly plausible, and only those with strong aethyr-sight (whether more divine or more arcane tuned) would even know that the two types were different.
It could easily be that the Cult of Morr had long sheltered Shyish users and simply sent those members to the newly founded college.
Likewise, the Hedgewise include Ranaldite priests. When many hedgewise got drawn into the Grey Order did it include any of those priests - or was it purely Ulgu users who sheltered amongst a priesthood with similar powers to theirs?
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- Location
- Earth
We did find that one fresh vampire. Pale. Can we send Emanuel and the Watch after that one?
@kingreaper you said we could buy a staff with CF, do we still have enough CF for that?
While a staff won't help us if we go for cloistering it will for those who don't want that, and is helpful once we actually go on the expedition.
This plan grants us all three Magic points from the spell list if our justifications go through.
I am confident in all but two of those, which gives us still two of the three points for guaranteed FC spell casting outside the room.
[] Plan: LightLan
-[] [Guard] Get a Guard of Steel item for Wolf anyway.
-[][Spy] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC, based on the value of market information.
-[][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[][Emanuel] Have Emanuel spend some time working with the watch - watching out for signs of Vampiric magic
-[][Watch] Structure the administration of the Watch such that they can expand into other counties without your personal oversight.
-[][Cloister] All 4 actions, because we are cloistering
--[] Apply Gambler to spell learning
--[] Doppelganger
--[] Take No Heed
--[] Shroud of Invisibility
--[] Burning Shadows
--[] Throttling
--[] Mockery of Death
--[] Pall of Darkness
--[] Illusion
--[] Universal Confusion
--[] Dread Aspect
--[] Shadow Knives
--[] Substance of Shadow
--[] Smoke and Mirrors
--[] Mystifying Miasma
-[][Paper] Magical Inventions
-[][Graduation] Mathilde's Matrix from Magical Inventions bundle
-[] (No AP cost) Have a proper, consecrated, idol added to the makeshift Ranaldian shrine in your underground palace. (-50g personal funds)
Justifications:
Doppelganger is useful for infiltration as well and shines combined with Take No Heed. (Take No Heed does not work if a human in itself would be suspicious, doppelganger widens our options)
Illusion was needed to make safe contact with them, they shot at everyone no matter how they looked.
Universal Confusion is a somewhat nice AOE below Battle Magic (and we had a nice fog mastery with it due to interaction with our Arcane Mark)
Substance of Shadows is also good for infiltration (or rescue as in the case of the sunk ship)
Mockery of Death is useful to take prisoners (or slit their throat once disabled)
Pall of Darkness is nice to slip out of a tight spot once no one can see, and you still remember how everything was.
@kingreaper you said we could buy a staff with CF, do we still have enough CF for that?
While a staff won't help us if we go for cloistering it will for those who don't want that, and is helpful once we actually go on the expedition.
This plan grants us all three Magic points from the spell list if our justifications go through.
I am confident in all but two of those, which gives us still two of the three points for guaranteed FC spell casting outside the room.
[] Plan: LightLan
-[] [Guard] Get a Guard of Steel item for Wolf anyway.
-[][Spy] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC, based on the value of market information.
-[][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[][Emanuel] Have Emanuel spend some time working with the watch - watching out for signs of Vampiric magic
-[][Watch] Structure the administration of the Watch such that they can expand into other counties without your personal oversight.
-[][Cloister] All 4 actions, because we are cloistering
--[] Apply Gambler to spell learning
--[] Doppelganger
--[] Take No Heed
--[] Shroud of Invisibility
--[] Burning Shadows
--[] Throttling
--[] Mockery of Death
--[] Pall of Darkness
--[] Illusion
--[] Universal Confusion
--[] Dread Aspect
--[] Shadow Knives
--[] Substance of Shadow
--[] Smoke and Mirrors
--[] Mystifying Miasma
-[][Paper] Magical Inventions
-[][Graduation] Mathilde's Matrix from Magical Inventions bundle
-[] (No AP cost) Have a proper, consecrated, idol added to the makeshift Ranaldian shrine in your underground palace. (-50g personal funds)
Justifications:
Doppelganger is useful for infiltration as well and shines combined with Take No Heed. (Take No Heed does not work if a human in itself would be suspicious, doppelganger widens our options)
Illusion was needed to make safe contact with them, they shot at everyone no matter how they looked.
Universal Confusion is a somewhat nice AOE below Battle Magic (and we had a nice fog mastery with it due to interaction with our Arcane Mark)
Substance of Shadows is also good for infiltration (or rescue as in the case of the sunk ship)
Mockery of Death is useful to take prisoners (or slit their throat once disabled)
Pall of Darkness is nice to slip out of a tight spot once no one can see, and you still remember how everything was.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
I will add an option for that.
You do indeed - 18 college favour, 20 if you decide against Guard of Steel
The cost of a staff is 5/10 CF depending on whether it's made by a magister or lord magister (5 CF will have net negative-neutral quirks, 10 CF net neutral-positive) and you can add an extra amount to get them to use better materials than a moderately rare wood, increasing the likelihood of good quirks.
I remember someone saying something about asking Melkoth for information on the Bright master staff-crafters, and while it didn't end up in the briefing it's a quick enough question to answer so I'll include it: A Bright Order master staff crafter will do a personal fitting for you, and costs 15+ CF to commission a staff from.
The Bright Order Masters are the only way you'll get a commissioned staff better than one Mathilde could make for herself - staves connect with your magical core, and that means that making your own is inherently valuable.
This connection between staff and creator is not BoneyCanon as far as I know, but it is ReaperCanon.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Well i'm up for spending 20CF on a staff from a Bright wizard lord.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's difficult to imagine getting anything as good - or even close to it - as we got in DL proper from a comission given reaper's position on "it's better if you make it yourself". Crits and boxcars, and battlemagic for days... That thing turned out pretty much as good as it was possible for a staff TO turn out.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Emphasis mine. The Bright college staff turner can make Staves better than Mathilde if we get them Materials and pay through our nose.
Well, spellcasting priests generally have Witchsight, and can (at least in the Roleplay game), automatically see the difference between the distinct categories of divine lores, arcane lores, and the lores of witchcraft like the Hedgewise use (and Dark Lores as well, as a fourth category). They're each distinguishable as they call on different power sources (the gods in the Aethyr, the blowing Winds of magic, and energy absorbed by material objects).
Priests in less sympathetic cults could just look at them and know the difference. Tome of Salvation describes divine magical senses thus:
Regardless of what the Elves may teach, perceiving Divine Magic with the Magical Sense skill shows it to be very different from Arcane Magic. When casting spells, wizards draw upon the Winds of Magic and channel them into an effect. This can be perceived with Magical Sense as the flows of magic gather, siphon, then release towards the target. Divine Magic, on the other hand, varies massively in its appearance. Sometimes a miracle is blinding for onlookers with Magical Sense, as the appropriate God or perhaps one of his servants appears to manifest in the local Aethyr; other times, the effects are barely perceptible, with nothing more than a faint, holy light surrounding the chanting priest.
In both cases, Magical Sense can also detect those who use such magic, even when they are not casting spells or chanting prayers. How this is perceived, again, varies. Where a Sigmarite may see a Jade Magister as a creature surrounded by faint tendrils of corruption, a Taalite may see the wizard as an ivy-wreathed man with a diffuse, green aura. Equally, when viewing other magic-using priests, what is perceived is changeable. A Manann worshipper may suddenly appear like the God himself, bearing a trident in his hand and a crown upon his brow. He may drip with aethyric, briny waters, and leave wet footprints wherever he walks, or he may just have a faint halo of water about his head. The results are rarely consistent, although the beliefs of the cult of the viewer seem to influence what he sees. In the end, it is up to the GM to describe the results of Magical Sense as suits his interpretation of the Warhammer World.
In both cases, Magical Sense can also detect those who use such magic, even when they are not casting spells or chanting prayers. How this is perceived, again, varies. Where a Sigmarite may see a Jade Magister as a creature surrounded by faint tendrils of corruption, a Taalite may see the wizard as an ivy-wreathed man with a diffuse, green aura. Equally, when viewing other magic-using priests, what is perceived is changeable. A Manann worshipper may suddenly appear like the God himself, bearing a trident in his hand and a crown upon his brow. He may drip with aethyric, briny waters, and leave wet footprints wherever he walks, or he may just have a faint halo of water about his head. The results are rarely consistent, although the beliefs of the cult of the viewer seem to influence what he sees. In the end, it is up to the GM to describe the results of Magical Sense as suits his interpretation of the Warhammer World.
This isn't described as being anything special. Any spell casting priest can recognise as soon as they look at someone whether they're an arcane or divine caster.
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Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
why you gotta tempt Ranald like that
That's the thing - it's really, really not. It crushes enemies some of the time, but even then it doesn't choke them - it straight-up crushes them. And other times it will stab instead, or pummel. From the taking of the East Gates:
Emphasis added for the bits where our shadow is fucking orks up.
I guess I'm not clear on why, if attuning only takes a couple weeks. I'll stop picking at it, tho. And thanks for your responsiveness to and patience with my many questions and nitpickings!
[] Plan Fayhem
-[] [Guard] Don't get the item. (+2 CF refunded)
-[] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC, based on the value of market information. (NEW)
-[] Invest in Nightsoil: Begin the process of getting the EIC to harvest and sell the sewage of Wurtbad and possibly other towns.
-[] Have Emanuel spend some time working with the watch - watching out for signs of Vampiric magic
-[] Structure the administration of the Watch such that they can expand into other counties without your personal oversight.
-[] Cloister
--[] Apply Gambler to spell learning
--[] Doppelganger
--[] Take No Heed
--[] Illusion
--[] Universal Confusion
--[] Shroud of Invisibility
--[] Burning Shadows
--[] Throttling
--[] Dread Aspect
--[] Pall of Darkness
--[] Mockery of Death
--[] Shadow Knives
--[] Substance of Shadow
--[] Smoke and Mirrors
--[] Mystifying Miasma
-[] [Paper] Magical Inventions
-[] [Graduation] Mathilde's Matrix from Magical Inventions bundle
-[] (No AP cost) Have a proper, consecrated, idol added to the makeshift Ranaldian shrine in your underground palace. (-50g personal funds)
-[] (No AP cost) Commission a staff. (-20 CF for a Bright Order master staff crafter to do a personal fitting and generally go hard)
I know I was just talking up instilling the long-term good of the EIC as an important priority, but since we're cloistering we'll have a -10. So because it's so important, I want to save that for one turn. The other delegation options are also largely stuff that should make them more able to function without as much of our management, since we're getting pulled in so many different directions lately.
If we can learn 14 spells in 4 actions worth of studying and go from knowing only Relatively Simple spells to learning Battle Magic, we will be Grey Order LEGENDS. Even with our various boni it may quite likely not happen of course, but I've tried to maximize the odds of it with this plan. I yoinked the list from LightLan, but fiddled with the order. I did that in a few places, but the big one is that I moved up Illusion and Universal Confusion by a lot - with KR's ruling on upper-level substitutes, with this order after our first 4 spells learned we'll already have a +1 to Magic from learning spells. That will help with every spell thereafter.
Ditto why I'm voting for cloistering and for getting a MEGASTAFF (the latter is also just really cool).
As far as Wolf's item, I'm cancelling it for now for two reasons. One, to afford the most mega of megastaffs we possibly can right now. Two, because next turn we'll have a bunch of CF again thanks to papers AND graduating, and since we'll be a Magister we'll be allowed to Windherd an item for Wolf like we originally wanted to. And having a higher Magic then means that the Aethyric Armor we'll be contributing will be a lot beefier, too. Also, just to remind everyone, we still need to enchant some Aethyric Armor robes for ourself, too.
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't think we will be able to publicly windherd until a few years down the line.
"A freshly graduate magister" is not much better than "A journeyman", even though the jump is +3 Magic and Battle Magic.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Thanks for the citation - seriously it's really useful to helping keep this mostly boney-accurate. The description from our first use, and our mastery, is about wrapping around and crushing, and I'd forgotten the pummelling and skewering that happens at other times. I'll edit the wording of the section to remove the mastery mention.
There's a two-week attunement to get basic connection, and a process to disconnect, which means a 1 AP cost to just try and use it at all. Once that is done it makes every AP more efficient, but it doesn't outright double the AP. More like an extra 1 once you're spending at least 3 - possibly 2 if you're spending all 6, haven't decided yet (kinda like a writing room adds an extra AP per six months)
Ultimately: If you were to spend 3 AP in Cloister, the overall learning in the 2 months of active learning time would be at best as good as 3 AP not cloistered. Given the chance of overloading your magical nature it just plain wouldn't be worth it - so Melkoth won't allow it.
(There's more to it from a mystical side of things, but I can't be bothered to make up the magebabble - but there's a reason Battle Wizards spend years cloistered and come out as battlefield nukes.)
And I don't mind the nitpicks, especially when they come with information I was missing.
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- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Pretty much. Unless you're willing to retire the Mathilde Weber identity, publicly windherding will get you some glares from Melkoth and likely other high-up individuals.
However they won't always be able to stop you - Melkoth is your current handler, and thus can stop you spending favour as "Magister Grey"; but as Mathilde Weber earns favour and reputation you'll be able to hire people against his preferences.
- Location
- Utrecht
I'd rather not piss of Grandpa.
But he did give us an out about getting the item delivered and enchant that. But i'd rather wait.
Can we assume that as the Rector, Melkoth knows Ockham's Mindrazor? Cos if he doesn't, that kind of puts a nasty kink on my sword of LifeLeeching and Mindrazor plan, if we have to wait for years until we can show the technique off to other Battle wizards.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
We could always 'discover' a lost item of Magister Grey the Eleventy-third, the creation of which resulted in their death, and then eventually make our Grandmastery rediscovering and improving their techniques. Melkoth and a contracted wizard who's on board with having favor they've been mindholed into not remembering getting willing of course.
- Location
- Earth
Which doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. He does have a bit of a point after all.
And going against orders without good reasons may ensure we don't get our LM title back.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay, interesting, that's good info re: the cost/benefit logic behind cloistering. I would imagine that IF we actually pull this plan off, or even most of this plan, we might have a better basis for doing Windherding, though. Since at that point it's not "are you a newly-graduated magister?" as the precedented bar to clear, it's "are you a magical genius who can learn more spells in less than half a year than most wizards learn in their entire careers?" - which should go a LOT further towards dissuading people who shouldn't be fooling with such things. At least IMO, but then I'm not the QM.
Plus, y'know, we probably shouldn't just ASSUME we'll be able to actually pull this extremely ambitious plan off. If we get the four spells in my plan needed for a +1 to Magic, that'll be enough to make me happy.
Plus, y'know, we probably shouldn't just ASSUME we'll be able to actually pull this extremely ambitious plan off. If we get the four spells in my plan needed for a +1 to Magic, that'll be enough to make me happy.
- Location
- Earth
The reputation change will be once we pull off our sheanigans in Kislev with the protector active.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Combined with the "windsight that beat Teclis" thing that's coming at Karak Vlag it would definitely be harder for people to assume they're capable of copying you.
If you get explicit approval from Algard (or even Dragomas) for your experiment that will also help - it means that following in your footsteps includes the vital step of "talk to a high authority"
That could also potentially work very well.
Next time the issue comes up in story Mathilde will have these arguments and options in her repertoire for persuading people that it's something she should be granted permission for.
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Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Fayhem
-[X] [Guard] Don't get the item. (+2 CF refunded)
-[X] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC, based on the value of market information. (NEW)
-[X] Invest in Nightsoil: Begin the process of getting the EIC to harvest and sell the sewage of Wurtbad and possibly other towns.
-[X] Have Emanuel spend some time working with the watch - watching out for signs of Vampiric magic
-[X] Structure the administration of the Watch such that they can expand into other counties without your personal oversight.
-[X] Cloister
--[X] Apply Gambler to spell learning
--[X] Doppelganger
--[X] Take No Heed
--[X] Illusion
--[X] Universal Confusion
--[X] Shroud of Invisibility
--[X] Burning Shadows
--[X] Throttling
--[X] Dread Aspect
--[X] Pall of Darkness
--[X] Mockery of Death
--[X] Shadow Knives
--[X] Substance of Shadow
--[X] Smoke and Mirrors
--[X] Mystifying Miasma
-[X] [Paper] Magical Inventions
-[X] [Graduation] Mathilde's Matrix from Magical Inventions bundle
-[X] (No AP cost) Have a proper, consecrated, idol added to the makeshift Ranaldian shrine in your underground palace. (-50g personal funds)
-[X] (No AP cost) Commission a staff. (-20 CF for a Bright Order master staff crafter to do a personal fitting and generally go hard)
I made my arguments for this plan back in the post where I presented it as a draft, so now that voting's open 'ere we go.
-[X] [Guard] Don't get the item. (+2 CF refunded)
-[X] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina and Markus to partner your network with the EIC, based on the value of market information. (NEW)
-[X] Invest in Nightsoil: Begin the process of getting the EIC to harvest and sell the sewage of Wurtbad and possibly other towns.
-[X] Have Emanuel spend some time working with the watch - watching out for signs of Vampiric magic
-[X] Structure the administration of the Watch such that they can expand into other counties without your personal oversight.
-[X] Cloister
--[X] Apply Gambler to spell learning
--[X] Doppelganger
--[X] Take No Heed
--[X] Illusion
--[X] Universal Confusion
--[X] Shroud of Invisibility
--[X] Burning Shadows
--[X] Throttling
--[X] Dread Aspect
--[X] Pall of Darkness
--[X] Mockery of Death
--[X] Shadow Knives
--[X] Substance of Shadow
--[X] Smoke and Mirrors
--[X] Mystifying Miasma
-[X] [Paper] Magical Inventions
-[X] [Graduation] Mathilde's Matrix from Magical Inventions bundle
-[X] (No AP cost) Have a proper, consecrated, idol added to the makeshift Ranaldian shrine in your underground palace. (-50g personal funds)
-[X] (No AP cost) Commission a staff. (-20 CF for a Bright Order master staff crafter to do a personal fitting and generally go hard)
I made my arguments for this plan back in the post where I presented it as a draft, so now that voting's open 'ere we go.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
[X] Plan Fayhem
Yeah, that'll work. Not enough Griffon, but there never is.
Yeah, that'll work. Not enough Griffon, but there never is.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
There are two factors going on here:
1) The roleplaying game Magical Sense skill is rather different from what Boney has done with magesight - most mages do not sense things in the way the RPG describes at all. When Mathilde first met Kasmir she couldn't see he was capable of casting spells. Same with Heidiella.
The RPG Magical Sense is better at sensing those who can use magic than Mathilde is now - even with her multiple windsense upgrades and her Avatar trait expanding her ability to sense priests.
2) Even if a Sigmarite could see "Hey, some of those Morrites look more purple and others more dream-like" there'd be no way for the Sigmarite to know what that meant in the pre-colleges era. Thus they'd have no trouble with existing within the cult.
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[X] Plan Fayhem