0. Quest Mechanics and Details
0
Code:
                         NOTICES
Code:
Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
  (the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words
Code:
Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
  (see Collaboration Post for details on itself)
Code:
Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes

If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
Code:
This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.

You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources.  When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.
Code:
 I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
   the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
                        about it.




Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.

If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.

If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.

So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.

If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.

If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.

I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.

The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.
Code:
                    Collaboration Post!
  1. The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
    • Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
    • An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
    • Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
  2. Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
    This is the cacophonous interlude.
    • Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
    • No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
    • Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
  3. When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
    • Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
    • Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
    • Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
      • However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
      • In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
  4. QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
  5. QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
  6. When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
    • Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
      • Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
      • The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
      • Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
      • Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
      • Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
      • New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
      • Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
      • Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
      • Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
    • Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
      • Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
      • Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
      • Huh: partial success
      • Uh huh: full success
      • Whoa: superior special case success
    • When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
  7. QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
  8. GOTO 1
The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)

The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.

When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.

Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.
 
Last edited:
Plan [Blood for the Blood (not quite) god]

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
An army marches on it's stomach. By baking bad bread, the Eppam have personally insulted you, the one who chose to heed their call. Insults cannot go un-punished.
[X] [Parley] Write In
Send in the Eppam chief, with not quite intent to betray.

Even were the forest people to surrender unconditionally, we would have little to gain from them. Poor harvests mean we cannot support many slaves, and they make poor slaves besides. Instead, have our chief begin negotiation with clearly unfair demands and threats. Perhaps we will not go through the trouble of killing them all if one in ten willingly submit to be ritually sacrificed. We fully expect that if the negotiator was not already planning betrayal, that this sort of thing will enrage them into attacking.

Be prepared for when this happens. Have your magics held ready. When their negotiator moves to strike, preempt them. Try not to reveal the full plan to the Eppam chief. If he thinks that you have personally saved his life, then all the better. Regardless, I have some specific suggestions for the magics you should use. The most important thing is to at all times play up the idea that you are a god. Try to make your magics seem effortless, your actions larger than life. While fire is a perennial favorite, consider if there is any way you could cause the negotiator to sink up to his waist into the soil. Perhaps you could make the area fall un-naturally silent? Most important I think, is finding a way to amplify your voice, make it sound as though you are many people speaking at once. This seems very possible given what you have said of spirits.

Have some small speech ready. I want to emphasize that all this is more a display for your peoples. This is an opportunity to remind the tribes strongest of your own strength. Again, try to seem effortless, like all the enemies before you are a particularly offensive piece of shit that you have inadvertently stepped in.
[X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
Reducing losses would be nice, but allowing your warriors to be properly blooded and conserving your magic for when it would be more impressive should be our goals.

I do not believe that any have yet asked. Why does Bianca want to be a True God? What does she expect to gain that she does not have now. We know already that gods can be killed, which would seem quite the downside for one who is already Undying.
 
Last edited:
I'm tempted to vote for that, but this may be a bloodbath. xd
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 6:14 AM, finished with 18 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 7:39 AM, finished with 18 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
    [X] [Parley] Write In
 
While we don't have need for slaves before we manage to improve agricultural production, maybe they could cease raids and offer decently high tribute, and this wouldn't be too bad.

Aaand I'm for bringing evil "justice", I feel partially persuaded, but with investigation at least.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 10:48 AM, finished with 20 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 12:44 PM, finished with 20 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 2:04 PM, finished with 20 posts and 4 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 10, 2019 at 10:27 PM, finished with 21 posts and 5 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] Write in
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
 
Last edited:
Greetings, mighty one. This humble voice is called Charlie.

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself

As you mentioned, leaders lead. When someone commits a crime in your presence, it should be no surprise if you punish them for it.

[X] Write in
Are you aware of a material known as Iron? It is harder and stronger than bronze and can be made from ores which are much easier to find.

If you seek to consolidate power around yourself, an excellent method may be to keep the method of iron working to those who work for you directly and give/sell iron goods from a central location. This would serve as a good way to make people bring goods to exchange for the metal and naturally cause a city to grow there, further enhancing your authority.


Procedural information:
Iron ore is frequently encountered in the swampy areas at the head of spring waters ('bog iron'), on cave floors, and on the bottom of lakes and small creeks.

To get to the bits of iron in the ore, you have to smelt it out. Smelting involves heating up ore until the metal becomes spongy and the chemical compounds in the ore begin to break down. Most important, it releases oxygen from the iron ore, which makes up a high percentage of common iron ores.

The most primitive facility used to smelt iron is a bloomery. There, a blacksmith burns charcoal with iron ore and a good supply of oxygen (provided by a bellows or blower). Charcoal is essentially pure carbon. The carbon combines with oxygen to create carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide (releasing lots of heat in the process). Carbon and carbon monoxide combine with the oxygen in the iron ore and carry it away, leaving iron metal.

In a bloomery, the fire doesn't get hot enough to melt the iron completely. Instead, the iron heats up into a spongy mass containing iron and silicates from the ore. Heating and hammering this mass (called the bloom) forces impurities out and mixes the glassy silicates into the iron metal to create wrought iron. Wrought iron is hardy and easy to work, making it perfect for creating tools.
 
The chief advantage of iron is not that it is harder and stronger than bronze, which by the way isn't necessary true. No, the benefit of iron is that its ore are far more common than iron, which means that iron goods will be cheaper and easier to acquire than bronze.

For example, let say you can only make a thousand bronze sword a year. Now you can make five thousands iron sword just as good if not better than bronze. To be clear, I have no idea if this specific example is actually true, but it should serve as an illustration of why iron is advantageous.

I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. After all, you only have so many warriors to equip bronze weapons with and only so many farmers who need bronze tools. Rather, it should be considered an important long term project. You are probably not going to achieve the necessary heating the first time around and it will likely takes many attempt.

Once you have iron, it will be transformative for the tribe, but the study and craftsmanship of metal doesn't stop there. You can certainly improve on iron, producing steel. You could also begin the process of truly understanding what's going on so that you can produce even better steel, or even other metals. However, that is many generations away for your people.


Procedural information:
Iron ore is frequently encountered in the swampy areas at the head of spring waters ('bog iron'), on cave floors, and on the bottom of lakes and small creeks.

To get to the bits of iron in the ore, you have to smelt it out. Smelting involves heating up ore until the metal becomes spongy and the chemical compounds in the ore begin to break down. Most important, it releases oxygen from the iron ore, which makes up a high percentage of common iron ores.

The most primitive facility used to smelt iron is a bloomery. There, a blacksmith burns charcoal with iron ore and a good supply of oxygen (provided by a bellows or blower). Charcoal is essentially pure carbon. The carbon combines with oxygen to create carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide (releasing lots of heat in the process). Carbon and carbon monoxide combine with the oxygen in the iron ore and carry it away, leaving iron metal.

In a bloomery, the fire doesn't get hot enough to melt the iron completely. Instead, the iron heats up into a spongy mass containing iron and silicates from the ore. Heating and hammering this mass (called the bloom) forces impurities out and mixes the glassy silicates into the iron metal to create wrought iron. Wrought iron is hardy and easy to work, making it perfect for creating tools.

Our lady is not going to understand what oxygen, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide is as well other chemicals. Moreover, our ancestors did just fine making iron without the benefit of understanding what was really going on.
 
Last edited:
Can I persuade people to simply burn this f****g forest? Because if we throw warriors inside, burning would be suddently much more dangerous, we don't want to accidentally roast our own warriors.

Remember that we have basically undisciplined horde of british football hooligans with bronze axes, not disciplined army. Let's burn stuff BEFORE any of our men enters this forest, truly.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 11, 2019 at 12:25 PM, finished with 27 posts and 7 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] cacaphony azerick
    [X] [Cacophony] Mortenkam
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
    [X] Write in
 
Last edited:
I strongly suggest we hold of more discussion of materials and manufacturing, such as iron and charcoal, until the situation with the forest peoples and this war are resolved.

I would be unwise to distract our host with such, until she is in a position to listen, learn and experiment.
 
Also, a big problem people have is that their posts read like a wikipedia quote. You gotta write for you audience. She lacks all that background information. I just know she is gonna be all like "whats oxygen?" "What does this 'bog iron' look like" "whats glass" "why should we bother with all this hard labor when we can just trade for bronze?"
Also why does everyone do their posting right before I go to sleep???
 
Sad that theres no hope for sb mirror some people warning heresy use sb more often

[X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties

[X] cacaphony azerick
 
Last edited:
I greet you, Undying One!

You may call me whatever that you want, but I wish to tell you about the time period that you live in. You are in a period, which one could call the Bronze Age, because of the important role of bronze have, at least in some matters, like toolmaking, but also in greater matters like how people interacted with each other.

As an interesting side note, the previous period was called the Stone Age, since in this period stone dominated as the material used to make tools. The next period is likely going to be the Iron Age, when people figure out how to make that metal. Some of the other voices have already told you something about this metal called iron, so for now I will focus on talking about the metal bronze.

The first thing to notice about bronze is, that it is rare, as you well might know, which is also why that in time will be replaced by iron, since it is easier to find a source of iron than a source for bronze.

As yourself have mention, this rarity results in for example that only a few of your warriors use it to make armor. I am unsure of how big difference there is in quality between bronze armor and the other types of armors that your people use, but it might be enough to encourage a focus on ensuring that the amount of training these bronze equipped warriors rather, than focusing on the number of warriors you can raise.

You may wonder how bronze is made. To this I will say is that you first would need two different things, first the metal copper, which you have already said that your people have. The other thing you would need is a metal called tin. Tin is the rarest of the two metals and copper and tin are rarely found together, but if you want to try to look for it, then it can most commonly be found in what might be best described as dark crystals. The proper mix to make bronze would be around seven times as much copper as tin, so luckily tin is the metal needed in the least amount. If you actually find a source of tin, then I might tell you more about to the proper mixing process of tin and copper to make bronze.

There do exist another way to make another kind of bronze without the use of tin, but the metal needed to replace tin, is dangerous to use, because of its toxic nature. This metal is called arsenic, but because of its toxic nature and the fact that like tin, this metal is also rare, I am not planning to tell more about it.

The fact that copper and especially tin are rare and that they are rarely found at the same place means that to create bronze, there can often end up existing long and big trade routes to overcome this rarity. In fact, you are already part of such a bronze traceroute.

I am unsure of what you think, when I talk about trade routes, so I will just quickly explain them. Trade routes is routes on which trade goods are said to travel on. These trade routes can, as earlier said, become quite long. On these long trade routes, it is rarely the same people taking the goods all the way from one end of a trade route to the next, in fact sometimes trade routes can be seen as a long chain of people trading with each other.

Trade routes comes in existing when there is a area that has something in abounds, while there is another place which has not and are therefor willing to trade a lot for it, or at least enough to make trade worth it.

Where these trade routes end or start or simply where they converge on each, there tend to be cities serving as centers in these trade routes. This is because cities serve as both as producers of valuable goods, but also as consumers of them.

As a side note about cities, then one of the reasons that they do not simply get raided all the time, is that they often are protected by grand walls of either wood or of stone, which can make attacks on them quite difficult.

The reason that you have notice that the Nine Tribes is getting less bronze through trade, might be because of a disruption in the trade network, like a big war or the destruction of an important city. It might also be because whoever is making it, has decided to keep more of it for themselves rather than trading it away. It can also be because there is somewhere, where people are willing to give more valuable trade goods for bronze.

Lastly, it might also simply be because the Nine Tribes are not an important stop on any trade routes, so few people are willing to travel to trade here. If that were changed, then people might show up with more bronze themselves.

If you travel to see cities for yourself, then you may also attempt to gain a better understanding of the current trade routes in your area and try to find out from where tin or bronze is coming from. You may of course also simply look for other interesting things or knowledge to bring back with you from your travel.

[X] [Cacophony] Mortenkam

I decided that I would try to join with a post of my own, where I focus on bronze and on trade. Do say if there is anything that could be made better, though we are close to the end of the voting periode.
 
5.b. Closing the Vote for Bread of Betrayal
5b
Code:
Who Bianca Heard
1 Boost: liberty90
1 Boost: maximillian
1 Boost: Mortenkam
1 Boost: Azerick01
0 Boost: Ciber
----------------- cutoff -----------------
0 Boost: KlinkerKing
0 Boost: Kiba
0 Boost: Daeth
0 Boost: charlesrwest
[X] [Cacophony] liberty90

This is Black Cat yet again, Great Undying One.

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself

Well, this was insulting to you and to the war effort. Keep in mind to investigate, though, as probably not all bakers are guilty, and these that were just and offered good bread during hard times, deserve gifts, not punishments. Punish these few that you are reasonably sure, with your great experience, that looks truly guilty. It would be nice if they look guilty also to other people.

[X] [Parley] Write In
Send in the Eppam chief, with not quite intent to betray, but with very strong demands about high tribute. Have impressive magic prepared as show of your power if they decide to attack.

[X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties

I see no reason to lose more warriors when you can burn your enemies. Though I hope that forest is sufficiently dry this time of the year.


I probably should also answer to a few of your questions.

I understand that you may not know nor have all the crops needed for perfect crop rotation. Use what you have. Perfection rarely exists in the real world, and it would be much better than nothing anyway. And of course my black soil should also help in its own way. Do you have turnips? Good for feeding cattle and sheep in the winter.

And I probably should mention, that it's possible to have system without any fallow year, but only if you have proper crops. Four different crops are grown in each year of a four-year cycle: wheat, turnips, barley, and clover or undergrass.

In regards to pots containing beer, I need to warn both you and the Voice that suggested this, that indeed it's a bad idea. I mean, the basic idea of purification by such means is true, but I believe that more complicated things would be needed, copper pots and pipes perhaps. As sometimes happens, it's not fully untrue, but currently impractical. I would need to consider this matter. And honey is good for mild burns, but I would have some doubts about usual wounds.

In regards to charcoal: "But by what measure should the ways of charring coals be tested?", you asked, and my answer is: mainly how much charcoal is produced, how fast and how cheaply.

"And how is air to be removed from the pot?". You use a closed pot. There will be air, but probably not enough fresh air for fire, and this is good, because charcoal is better than ash, so fire inside of our pot is undesirable.

"And why not simply wrap clay around a bundle of branches, fire it, and then cast it into the rot waste, bones and worked earth, to shatter then?". This sounds like a pretty decent idea, actually. You should test this. Testing ideas in the real world is very, very important.

When I think about this... You could also use pits to create a larger amount of charcoal. A fire is first started in the pit and fuel is added to make a strong fire. More wood is added to fill the pit, the fire continues to burn slowly. Then a layer of leaves need to be placed over the wood fuel and then some earth shoveled on. The pit is left to complete transformation of wood into charcoal and can be opened in two days. Such charcoal is not uniform in quality and there obviously will be ash and some not fully burned nor charred wood perhaps. Water may be useful to prevent fire when the pit is opened.

What is important in charcoal production is heat, but not too much air and not too much fire.

In regards to beer and bread, not all germs are bad for humans, not all want to eat humans. Both beer and bread are perfectly healthy. Well, you can drink too much beer, but these are special cases.

Rotting leaves, eaten by one type of germs, are much less dangerous to humans than rotting human bodies, eaten by another. Children can safely play with dirt, simply wash hands afterward. Avoiding dead human remains is perfectly reasonable, avoiding rotting leaves would be insanity.

"Excessive measures" about washing? Like what, bathing daily? Probably impossible, but if there is time and reasonably clean water for this, there is nothing bad in that.

By the way, anybody mentioned that recently boiled water is the safest to drink? Then I must mention this. But again, lack of water is ten times worse than unboiled water, so people need to be reasonable.

Your bee-obsessed madmen were sometimes partially right. Bees are sometimes tempted to use empty safe structure with a hole as their home. You can even try to use baskets made of straw placed open-end-down with a small hole. Skep hive. And remember, bees like have their home around flowers.

In regards to soap, soap is not deadly to germs, but make washing away germs and dirt easier.

To make soap, boil hardwood ash for some time. Some new substance known as lye water should be created. Skim the liquid lye off the top. When you have enough lye, boil lye. Keep in mind that lye is not yet soap, on the contrary, lye is dangerous, so people should be careful; boiling lye may also form unhealthy air, so do this outdoors not inside of buildings. Something may also go wrong and lye may be too strong or too weak (test: chicken feather is destroyed/dissolved in lye? Strong enough). Heat animal fat. Then add hot, clean grease to the bubbling lye. Continue to boil this and mix these for a while. The best proportions and time should be tested. Finally, stop boiling and heating the mixture if it's thickened enough. Preferably divide soap into smaller pieces instead of having one giant soap, this would be easier if soap is thick but not yet finished and cold. When the said mixture is hardened into solid instead of liquid and no longer hot, you should have your soap. Still, leave said soap for a few days before testing, to be sure that lye transformed into soap properly.

When somebody wants to wash his hands or body, he should rub wet soap on his body or hands, and then use water to wash this away.

Soap may be hard enough to make at first, so maybe people should use soap mainly for washing hands before sewing wounds, and before helping with childbirth, or something like that, and not for washing of the whole body often. I mean, depends how much you may be able to make. Let's be reasonable, practical and not insane.

There is indeed at least a few ways to make cities. In regards to adopting some of the city customs, maybe you could try to start small. Select ten loyal people that can be at least barely decent as warriors, give them good weapons, armor, and horses, call them your "Armed Forces". This is a very small number of men, so for now, use them to make travelers, traders and most importantly your singers more safe in the wilds that lie between villages. Make this their main work, regularly give them food and some gold. Surely you can find at least ten loyal dogs that do not argue, or not too much at least? Especially young people should be pretty interested. Then slowly expand this idea and your "Army", especially if we manage to produce more food and make people grateful.

If you throw a frog into boiling water, said frog will try to run away in pain. But if you slowly increase heat in the pot with your frog happy inside, then you can boil one easily. In the same way, people with too much freedom can be tamed gradually.

And these customs are not always bad for meek and weak people.
If warriors also try to impose peace and order instead of only receiving pretty things, then travel is truly safer, there is fewer raids between villages... This depends and can significantly vary between various cities with different customs.

I don't think so, they are simply... irritated... that their land was selected to supply our warriors, because harvest was bad and some of them starve.

While we don't have need for slaves before we manage to improve agricultural production, maybe they could cease raids and offer decently high tribute, and this wouldn't be too bad.

Aaand I'm for bringing evil "justice", I feel partially persuaded, but with investigation at least.

Greetings once more o Undying one.
And indeed you had the right of it, I am the voice of sheep, strange that I did not mention that prior.
Perhaps disembodiment leads to forgetfulness.

At any rate, let us talk of the matter of the Eppam.
No people upon whose land an army marches are left whole and unscathed.
This is the way of things since time immemorial.

However, to cheat the people is a dishonourable act, to break one's word is twice that and amongst the beakers of the Eppam are those whose honour is twice tarnished.

But amongst the bakers of Eppam are those who, despite the hardship of the season and the scarcity of good grain, provided the nine with whole and hearty bread, even if it meant that they andttheir kin may become ill and hungry.

These men have shown honour twice. They did not break the words as bakers, and they upheld the laws of hospitality in hardship.

Thus I propose this: let the bakers who forsook honour be shamed amongst the nine and their own kin.
Parade them in disgrace and inflict upon their flesh a permanent mark, one that cannot be easily hidden, so that forevermore they will be seen as men of little honour, as thieves and cheats.

And then release them, their kin and tribe of they had shame will never accept them, and so a life of exile will be theirs.
But offer them a choice, should they die in the war or achieve great glory, their honour would be avenged, and their sins forgiven.
If they have shame they would take this offer, for none wants to be remembered by his descendents as a cheat and a liar.

And for those bakers that were good and honest, I say let the singers make songs of them, and hail them as people of great honour and virtue, who would rather starve themselves than let a guest go hungry.

Grant them a favour from your person, or a gift of gold or promise of loot, or even arrange for their children to be wed to good people of high standing.

This would see an example made and a tradition started that strengthens the nine in many ways, and lift your esteem amongst them.

For displays of might, threats of retaliation, and even appeals to tradition, virtue and righteousness can only go so far in the ordering of people.
But where shame and honour hold a measure of sway, then even the most arrogant of evil men will feel the weight disgrace upon their neck and will seek to relieve it.

And so you should spare no effort in ensuring that the nine value honour and abhor disgrace above all, even the will of the gods.
And so if you so chose to meet with the enemy, never break your given word and be first to betray. But if the words of others are broken, then smite them with a power terrible and gruesome.


Now as for the matter of the spirits and magics, I say unleash all upon the forest, strike a blow that will never be forgotten, and have the nine assault those that survive. This will awe both the nine and the forest folks, and should leave the latter in either dissary or exhaustion from countering your works, thus ensuring a favourable battle for the nine.


And on the topic of cities, you are correct that the food and resources that the city consumes is taken by the city from the villages by threat of retaliation and the meekness of the subjects.

The people I told you of who gathered in cities after conquering lands without counting; they did indeed have conflict amongst them.
For no people great and mighty who exult in war can live togather without dispute, but that conflict was resolved by four primary means.

The first was blood gold, whereby the family of one side would pay gold or cattle to the family of the other to stop a fued of vengeance from occurring. And if the payment is taken, then all wrongs are forgiven and the two may live in peace.

The second was by marriage, for of a conflict is in danger of brewing, then the elders and chiefs would arrange a marriage between the notables of the parties involved, and thus no blood may be readily shed amongst them. For it is the blackest shame to slay one's kin.

The third was by poetry, song and feast.
A chief, elder or notable with great wealth and renown may arrange for a great feast, whereby feuding families, clans or the tribes are invited.
As they are guests they may not raise their blades in his hall, and so in the feast he may try to reason them out of the feud, or he will may marry amongst them and beseech them as relatives of his to end their conflict.
But most commonly a great poet or singer would be present, who will grace them with words and songs of such strength, bueaty and artifice, that they will be shamed in the eyes of the tribes for not heeding them.


The last method was the one the first chief would employ.
Whenever a fued got out of hand, he would gather the elders and chieftains of those involved, and offer rights of plunder over the conquered or even for their kin to be wed to his or rise in status as his companions.
If that fails to deterr them, then he would grant them large swaths of lands or establish a new city for them to dwell in, far away where they can cause little trouble, but still be of use.

Rare are the times that a tribe would refuse all these means of settling a dispute, for if they do so, then the first chief would use his considerable resources to ensure they are mauled and savaged by the other tribes until they agree to peace.



And regarding the the Beasts and plants of the people.
It is known that if two beasts of similar properties, say sheep with wool more lustrous and soft than their kin, are bred only with each other, then their progeny will have similar qualities to the parents.
If you where to do that over the course of several generations of sheep, then you will have produced a new breed of sheep, one that offers wool that simply cannot be compared to that of other breeds of sheep.

The same principles apply to size, ferocity, milk production, egg production, speed, and other beside.

If you where to breed the best with only the best and select based on specific properties, you can end up with horses so large they can carry two men on their back with ease.
Cows that make so much milk that you will run out of pots to store it, fowls so fat that one can feed five men or more, and dogs of such strength and ferocity that few would dare risk their ire.

The possibilities are endless with regards to breeding.

The same applies to plants, a stalk of wheat that bears more grains than its kin should be have its seed planted separately.
Thus repeated, you will eventually end with wheat stalks that bear so many grains that they risk breaking the stem.
Or fruits of such size that one is enough to stave off hunger, you can even turn bitter and soul plants into sweet and delectable ones with enough time and dedication.


There are also means by which Bees can be herded like cattle, a fellow voice has elaborated on that, and by which fruit trees can be grown in a few years instead of a decade, and by which two trees can be combined into one.

I will go into details regarding those after the war if you so wish I undying one.


And lastly, regarding poetry and music, first I must ask what instruments the nine use.
And kind of song and poem are most common? What topics do they discuss? how are the singers regarded and treated? And how prevelant is song making outside of your singers?


[X] [Cacopony] maximillian

I greet you, Undying One!

You may call me whatever that you want, but I wish to tell you about the time period that you live in. You are in a period, which one could call the Bronze Age, because of the important role of bronze have, at least in some matters, like toolmaking, but also in greater matters like how people interacted with each other.

As an interesting side note, the previous period was called the Stone Age, since in this period stone dominated as the material used to make tools. The next period is likely going to be the Iron Age, when people figure out how to make that metal. Some of the other voices have already told you something about this metal called iron, so for now I will focus on talking about the metal bronze.

The first thing to notice about bronze is, that it is rare, as you well might know, which is also why that in time will be replaced by iron, since it is easier to find a source of iron than a source for bronze.

As yourself have mention, this rarity results in for example that only a few of your warriors use it to make armor. I am unsure of how big difference there is in quality between bronze armor and the other types of armors that your people use, but it might be enough to encourage a focus on ensuring that the amount of training these bronze equipped warriors rather, than focusing on the number of warriors you can raise.

You may wonder how bronze is made. To this I will say is that you first would need two different things, first the metal copper, which you have already said that your people have. The other thing you would need is a metal called tin. Tin is the rarest of the two metals and copper and tin are rarely found together, but if you want to try to look for it, then it can most commonly be found in what might be best described as dark crystals. The proper mix to make bronze would be around seven times as much copper as tin, so luckily tin is the metal needed in the least amount. If you actually find a source of tin, then I might tell you more about to the proper mixing process of tin and copper to make bronze.

There do exist another way to make another kind of bronze without the use of tin, but the metal needed to replace tin, is dangerous to use, because of its toxic nature. This metal is called arsenic, but because of its toxic nature and the fact that like tin, this metal is also rare, I am not planning to tell more about it.

The fact that copper and especially tin are rare and that they are rarely found at the same place means that to create bronze, there can often end up existing long and big trade routes to overcome this rarity. In fact, you are already part of such a bronze traceroute.

I am unsure of what you think, when I talk about trade routes, so I will just quickly explain them. Trade routes is routes on which trade goods are said to travel on. These trade routes can, as earlier said, become quite long. On these long trade routes, it is rarely the same people taking the goods all the way from one end of a trade route to the next, in fact sometimes trade routes can be seen as a long chain of people trading with each other.

Trade routes comes in existing when there is a area that has something in abounds, while there is another place which has not and are therefor willing to trade a lot for it, or at least enough to make trade worth it.

Where these trade routes end or start or simply where they converge on each, there tend to be cities serving as centers in these trade routes. This is because cities serve as both as producers of valuable goods, but also as consumers of them.

As a side note about cities, then one of the reasons that they do not simply get raided all the time, is that they often are protected by grand walls of either wood or of stone, which can make attacks on them quite difficult.

The reason that you have notice that the Nine Tribes is getting less bronze through trade, might be because of a disruption in the trade network, like a big war or the destruction of an important city. It might also be because whoever is making it, has decided to keep more of it for themselves rather than trading it away. It can also be because there is somewhere, where people are willing to give more valuable trade goods for bronze.

Lastly, it might also simply be because the Nine Tribes are not an important stop on any trade routes, so few people are willing to travel to trade here. If that were changed, then people might show up with more bronze themselves.

If you travel to see cities for yourself, then you may also attempt to gain a better understanding of the current trade routes in your area and try to find out from where tin or bronze is coming from. You may of course also simply look for other interesting things or knowledge to bring back with you from your travel.

[X] [Cacophony] Mortenkam

I decided that I would try to join with a post of my own, where I focus on bronze and on trade. Do say if there is anything that could be made better, though we are close to the end of the voting periode.

On the subject of beekeeping, which is one of interest to me, though I admit to not being an expert, at best a novice, hopefully I can get you on the right track though.

Firstly you will have to double check whether you are using bumblebees or honeybees. This can be tested simply by letting the bee sting someone, if it is a honeybee the bee will die shortly after, whereas a bumblebee will live to sting another day. There are other important differences but that's the easiest one to describe and test through this medium, as saying ones fat and one slim means nothing if you only have one of them. This is important as honeybees make a large honeycomb while bumblebees do not, as well as some other behavioural differences that mean that honeybees are much better for beekeeping.

It is possible that your land has another variant, which could cause issues, however lets keep going with the knowledge we have for now.

Now, bees are naturally inclined to make hives in areas such as hollow trees, rock crevices and other enclosed spaces, so trying to tempt them towards logs is actually the right path, though they might just decide not to die to their being a better spot for a hive nearby. Early beekeeping is a temperamental business.

However you can make a bee hive, or more accurately create an ideal location for bees to nest in, very simply. While the more complex man made hives and bee boxes are extremely difficult to explain using this format and might not be possible with your current resources, the most simple ones are cyrlinders of clay about 80cm long and 40cm in diameter, a centimetre being very roughly equal to the width of an index fingernail at its widest, and your index finger being the one closest to your thumb, if you were unaware of that term. You then stack these horizontally, as this apparently makes the honey easier to remove and makes it less likely for larvae to be stored with the honey, if my information on basic beekeeping is correct, with the cylinders having a removable lid on one end with which to extract the honey and a hole on the other to allow bees to come and go.

They should then make the honey themselves, but the process of extracting honey may have you concerned due to the risk of the workers getting stung. This can be mitigated by blowing smoke into the hive, which causes the bees to become lethargic and tired, allowing easy extraction of honey.

In addition one should be aware that extraction of too much honeycombs will result in damage to the hive, and as such should be careful with how much honey they take at once, it is how your hive feeds itself after all.

The queen is the most important member of your hive and can be distinguished by her larger size and pointed abdomen. It is she who produces the young, if she dies the hive will no longer function. In addition new hives can be formed by wandering queens, so capturing them may allow for you to establish new hives.

Oh! You should also try and make sure there are plenty of flowers near the hive, bees use the nectar to produce honey.

My apologies for the lack of elaboration, but I am not currently in a state to give too much information on this.

I'm not sure how correct this is, it's a quick search and write up done on my phone just after I woke up, if anyone has better info I can edit it in or they can do a better post

We could fake out both sides in negotiations. Allow whichever of our chieftans could go down a peg to attempt negotiations, while Bianca prepares a last second rescue. This is a good opportunity to remind the mortals that she is to be feared.

[X] cacaphony azerick
Let us not be to hyperbolic in descriptions of breeding. As in all things, there are tradeoffs. If you breed for only the weight of the grain, then you may lose in the quality of the grain. Or in the plants ability to resist drought and pests. The gains in productivity are often greater than the increase in effort, but you must take these factors into account.

Plan [Blood for the Blood (not quite) god]

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
An army marches on it's stomach. By baking bad bread, the Eppam have personally insulted you, the one who chose to heed their call. Insults cannot go un-punished.
[X] [Parley] Write In
Send in the Eppam chief, with not quite intent to betray.

Even were the forest people to surrender unconditionally, we would have little to gain from them. Poor harvests mean we cannot support many slaves, and they make poor slaves besides. Instead, have our chief begin negotiation with clearly unfair demands and threats. Perhaps we will not go through the trouble of killing them all if one in ten willingly submit to be ritually sacrificed. We fully expect that if the negotiator was not already planning betrayal, that this sort of thing will enrage them into attacking.

Be prepared for when this happens. Have your magics held ready. When their negotiator moves to strike, preempt them. Try not to reveal the full plan to the Eppam chief. If he thinks that you have personally saved his life, then all the better. Regardless, I have some specific suggestions for the magics you should use. The most important thing is to at all times play up the idea that you are a god. Try to make your magics seem effortless, your actions larger than life. While fire is a perennial favorite, consider if there is any way you could cause the negotiator to sink up to his waist into the soil. Perhaps you could make the area fall un-naturally silent? Most important I think, is finding a way to amplify your voice, make it sound as though you are many people speaking at once. This seems very possible given what you have said of spirits.

Have some small speech ready. I want to emphasize that all this is more a display for your peoples. This is an opportunity to remind the tribes strongest of your own strength. Again, try to seem effortless, like all the enemies before you are a particularly offensive piece of shit that you have inadvertently stepped in.

[X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
Reducing losses would be nice, but allowing your warriors to be properly blooded and conserving your magic for when it would be more impressive should be our goals.

I do not believe that any have yet asked. Why does Bianca want to be a True God? What does she expect to gain that she does not have now. We know already that gods can be killed, which would seem quite the downside for one who is already Undying.

I will trade you (liberty90) a future vote if you vote plan [Blood for the Blood (not quite) god]

Also, a big problem people have is that their posts read like a wikipedia quote. You gotta write for you audience. She lacks all that background information. I just know she is gonna be all like "whats oxygen?" "What does this 'bog iron' look like" "whats glass" "why should we bother with all this hard labor when we can just trade for bronze?"
Also why does everyone do their posting right before I go to sleep???

Salutations, Undying One!

I am Crest, and I would like to caution both my fellow voices and yourself from prematurely engaging in arson. Forests, as a rule, do not burn well unless both the leaves and the ground is dry. If a branch broken from a tree is debarked and found to be green and/or moist 'neath the bark, I would caution that attempts to set fire to such a forest may do little but cause smoke (which could be advantageous, as the fumes are noxious) that may do little more than get carried away by the wind.

A previous voice whose fondness of bees has led him to be a little careless, speaks of the size of a beehive. These sizes he mentions are roughly two and a half man-feet in length, and half that across the circular opening, respectively.

There are many ways to organize a city and it's not necessary true that warriors are from a tribe different from the other. Black Cat only explained one way to organize a city. No matter, do not worry yourself about raising a city.

They will arise naturally through the process of population growth. If the Nine Nations left unimpeded and unmolested, some of their villages will eventually become cities. So long they continued to prosper, the process is inevitable and it does not necessary means the end of the Nine Nations. The Nine Nations can still remain political entity. A city is an overgrown village whose political significance hadn't been determined yet.

However, how cities are governed and function will be important to know. A city is not a useless entity, but it should be managed with care so that you can reap the harvest of benefits from them just as crops must be tended to even though they are headache to farmers. Otherwise, a poorly managed city will bring ruin to your people.

I didn't explain the benefit of cities very well. Help?

The chief advantage of iron is not that it is harder and stronger than bronze, which by the way isn't necessary true. No, the benefit of iron is that its ore are far more common than iron, which means that iron goods will be cheaper and easier to acquire than bronze.

For example, let say you can only make a thousand bronze sword a year. Now you can make five thousands iron sword just as good if not better than bronze. To be clear, I have no idea if this specific example is actually true, but it should serve as an illustration of why iron is advantageous.

I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. After all, you only have so many warriors to equip bronze weapons with and only so many farmers who need bronze tools. Rather, it should be considered an important long term project. You are probably not going to achieve the necessary heating the first time around and it will likely takes many attempt.

Once you have iron, it will be transformative for the tribe, but the study and craftsmanship of metal doesn't stop there. You can certainly improve on iron, producing steel. You could also begin the process of truly understanding what's going on so that you can produce even better steel, or even other metals. However, that is many generations away for your people.




Our lady is not going to understand what oxygen, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide is as well other chemicals. Moreover, our ancestors did just fine making iron without the benefit of understanding what was really going on.


The issue of the bad bread would suggest that the Eppam tribe may be untrustworthy. If this is the case then it is possible they have misrepresented or even outright lied about the cause of the conflict with the Forrest people. While it would be embarrassing or even dangerous to muster the Nine Nations and then leave in peace, with glory unearned, it would be, in my opinion, worse to be manipulated by your subjects to take such action. Especially since such action if successful would almost certainly be repeated, if in potentially other ways.

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
[X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity

On the issue of the battle plans, I have insufficient martial knowledge to advise so I leave that to my fellows.

I strongly suggest we hold of more discussion of materials and manufacturing, such as iron and charcoal, until the situation with the forest peoples and this war are resolved.

I would be unwise to distract our host with such, until she is in a position to listen, learn and experiment.

Greetings, mighty one. This humble voice is called Charlie.

[X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself

As you mentioned, leaders lead. When someone commits a crime in your presence, it should be no surprise if you punish them for it.

[X] Write in
Are you aware of a material known as Iron? It is harder and stronger than bronze and can be made from ores which are much easier to find.

If you seek to consolidate power around yourself, an excellent method may be to keep the method of iron working to those who work for you directly and give/sell iron goods from a central location. This would serve as a good way to make people bring goods to exchange for the metal and naturally cause a city to grow there, further enhancing your authority.


Procedural information:
Iron ore is frequently encountered in the swampy areas at the head of spring waters ('bog iron'), on cave floors, and on the bottom of lakes and small creeks.

To get to the bits of iron in the ore, you have to smelt it out. Smelting involves heating up ore until the metal becomes spongy and the chemical compounds in the ore begin to break down. Most important, it releases oxygen from the iron ore, which makes up a high percentage of common iron ores.

The most primitive facility used to smelt iron is a bloomery. There, a blacksmith burns charcoal with iron ore and a good supply of oxygen (provided by a bellows or blower). Charcoal is essentially pure carbon. The carbon combines with oxygen to create carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide (releasing lots of heat in the process). Carbon and carbon monoxide combine with the oxygen in the iron ore and carry it away, leaving iron metal.

In a bloomery, the fire doesn't get hot enough to melt the iron completely. Instead, the iron heats up into a spongy mass containing iron and silicates from the ore. Heating and hammering this mass (called the bloom) forces impurities out and mixes the glassy silicates into the iron metal to create wrought iron. Wrought iron is hardy and easy to work, making it perfect for creating tools.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 11, 2019 at 12:25 PM, finished with 27 posts and 7 votes.

  • [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca investigates and brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Write In
    [X] [Battle Plans] Pour everything into the woodlands ahead of the warparties
    [X] [Cacopony] maximillian
    [X] cacaphony azerick
    [X] [Cacophony] Mortenkam
    [X] [Bad Bread] Bianca brings justice herself
    [X] [Parley] Bianca goes herself, with sincerity
    [X] [Battle Plans] Reserve spirits and magic, lead the warriors into the woodlands
    [X] Write in
 
Last edited:
Conversation about quotes from wiki etc is partially ooc, but so funny and confusing, that I hope that this will be truly included xD I chuckled xD
 
Last edited:
Sad that theres no hope for sb mirror some people warning heresy use sb more often
Tracking votes and plans and engagement-with-the-main-character on two sites would be too much work for me.

Do quests ever mirror their story posts to other sites? How does that work out?
 
Greetings. I appear to be late. You can call me Armok.

I think some of the other voices might be ignoring the importance of your Singers. After this war, there will presumably be songs written, and I advise this opportunity be taken to improve songcraft.

Other voices more knowledgeable than me on this, maybe an explanation on different meters, the 12 tone scale, and musical notation would be in order? A great way to avoid many of the issues mentioned with writing would be to make it a code embedded within music, and forbid any that are not your Singers to use it.

In general, in preparation for the coming of cities, I think it might be a good idea to over the next few generations increase the power, prestige, and status of singer, and to make them almost like priests, with official special privileges. Make it clear that singers are worth more than ordinary people, they are your chosen representatives, and should be given about the same amount of reverence as warchiefs. Teaching them a few minor magic tricks that others of the tribes do not know might also help with this.

Another thing I think would be a good idea even if it's decided writing is to dangerous for the people, you should still work out a system and practice it yourself, if needed in secret. This will aid your memory, make you cleverer, and make it so that if you do teach the people you will already be proficient and have years of practice in the art.

It might also be a good idea to look out for traders bringing writing in or people coming up with similar things themselves, and if it is inevitable then make sure it is your version and that it comes from you rather than a foreign influence.

[X] cacophony Armok
 
I think it might be more interesting if voices were only permitted to boost others. As it stands, the boost mechanic is nigh pointless because if a voice has something to say then they will boost themselves, and if they do not, then they shall boost no one.
 
Take note, compeers of the Cacophony. The supplicant listens even now, and hears of matters best kept between us.

Until then, heed our warnings. The world beyond your meager tribes is vast and roiling with conflict. We say to the wolf who looks upon a human babe, "Beware this creature. Though it is weak and flails strangely, it shall grow into something fearsome and mighty." We say to you, beware cities, beware nations. Find them. Destroy them, or usurp them. Do not let them fester.

Prove worthy, supplicant, and we shall teach you deeper secrets than music and soap.
 
I want to mention chimneys next turn. Weird, but these things were invented very late (around 12th century AD, sic).

This is Black Cat with a few more of my small secrets that I shall gladly share with you.

Better use of horsepower: a proper horse collar is oval rather than circular and it is by design not very flexible. It is a padded leather appliance that conforms well to the shape of the horse's body. It is constructed so that at all points of contact with the body of the horse it avoids the air passage. By protecting the airway of the horse it's possible for the animal to use its full force to pull a load, cart, chariot, or something else. Throat-girth harness is much less efficient than a proper horse collar, because the harder a horse pull, the more strongly it choke off its own breathing.

A plough is a tool used in farming for initial cultivation of soil in preparation for sowing seed or planting to loosen or turn the soil. Ploughs can be drawn by working animals such as horses. A plough may be made of wood or bronze with an attached blade or stick used to cut the soil and loosen it. The primary purpose of ploughing is to turn over the upper layer of the soil, bringing fresh nutrients to the surface, while burying weeds and the remains of previous crops and allowing them to break down.

Roads: a road is a piece of land which connects two or more places. Usually, a road has been made easy to travel on, for example by removing trees and other things. Carts, horses and people could travel faster if people could build roads between villages and other important places. Gravel (very small stones) can be used for road surfaces, but common dirt is often better than nothing. You can give people pretty things, like some small amount of gold, in exchange for building roads in places where you want these. 16–26 average human feet in road width should be enough.

WIKI

There is also another matter, that may even kill some of your people during winter: your people probably use simple holes to remove smoke from inside, and this is a very bad solution. There is much better one.

Chimney is a vertical (going up) channel or pipe which conducts highly unhealthy smoke from a cooking fire, heating fire or furnace, typically through the roof of a building. Part of such a structure rises above a roof. Unhealthy air rise through chimney and is thus removed outside of the building. Taller chimneys are better. You can also use vertical channels to remove unhealthy air and provide fresh air underground, for example to mines - this is called ventilation. Chimneys are much better than a simple hole in the roof, or in the walls; for complicated reasons chimneys create weak force of wind. A fireplace is a stone or brick structure used to hold a fire. Fireplaces are most often used for heating but they can also be used for cooking. Fireplace should be connected to chimney. Not only smoke would be removed much better, but also fire should be stronger.

New construction material: concrete. You need cement for that. Cement is made from quicklime (heated limestone) and clay. Preferably burn ground-up limestone and clay together. Concrete is made out of cement, sand, very small rocks and water in varying proportions depending on the desired properties of finished concrete, testing as always should be useful. Fresh concrete can be poured like a dense liquid, but after a few days concrete hardens into rock. Very good floor for houses instead of soil or wood. You can add volcanic ash to create much better Roman Concrete, but this is not fully needed.

Mysteries of the human body explained.

Blood is used by the body to transport many complicated things to all parts of the body, things needed to live and to defend against germs. These things are provided to the blood by breathing, eating and drinking water. Heart allows said blood to move. A human mind is in the brain, but without blood, brain dies very fast, you cease to see and move almost instantly at least without magic, and thus person dies.

Thanks to lungs healthy air is useful for the blood, thanks to stomach and guts food is useful for the blood, and then liver and kidneys try to remove bad things and poisons from the blood - if liver is not in good shape, or poison is too bad, person can die even without germ disease. These mysteries are very simplified here, about details you could talk for days.

Healthy kidneys filter about a half cup of blood every minute, removing wastes and extra water to make urine. The urine flows from the kidneys to the bladder.

Ah, and arteries and veins are parts of the same circulatory system for the blood. Arteries may look empty after death because blood then goes mainly to veins, but if you cut artery of the living person, there will be a great deal of blood. When I said "thanks to lungs healthy air is useful for the blood" this means that part of air known as oxygen is transported from air to blood in the lungs. Veins are blood vessels that carry blood toward the heart, arteries are blood vessels that take blood away from the heart to all parts of the body. Most arteries carry oxygenated blood, most veins carry deoxygenated blood. Oxygenated blood is bright red, deoxygenated blood is darker, almost blackish-red.

Oxygen is also used to sustain fires, not only by living things. Without proper air, there is no fire.

Share some of that wisdom with your people, so that they cease to believe in dangerous idiocies. I'm not sure what dangerous idiocies may exist, but for example I know of people that believed disease to be caused by excess of blood, and this is stupid belief and dangerous to health beyond words, and it's only example of course.

Open sometimes bodies of your enemies, to learn more and test ideas.

Truth about non-magical and non-divine part of reality: the atomic theory.

1. All matter is formed of atoms. By "matter" I mean all non-magical, non-divine and not-spiritual things, from air to rocks.

2. Atoms are smallest components of matter. This is not fully true, but it's decent enough simplification and true enough for most practical considerations.

3. Atoms of the same element, copper for example, or oxygen, are of the same type and mass.

4. Atoms that make chemical compounds are present in set proportions.

5. Chemical changes correspond to a reorganisation of the atoms taking part in the chemical reaction. For example, in simpler words: "wood on fire" is rapid "chemical reaction" where atoms of oxygen, present in the air, combine with atoms of carbon, present in the wood, combining into carbon dioxide (chemical compound).
 
Last edited:
You know what, I think I will make a vow to never use the word secret again... I think we may be way overusing it on things that are not worthy.
 
It's so great "secret" that no one person in her world builds any chimneys yet :p

Anyway, think how to explain iron ore to her, please :p
 
Last edited:
I'd say that suggesting to use pots for charcoal is silly, using dirt to choke the air and allowing pyrolysis is easier.
Look at the prehistorical technology YouTube guy, he has quite the video on chsrocla.


Also, are you guys gunning for teaching her about iron and steel?
Because it seems the logical progression.

Anyhow I think I'll start drafting something contextualising Materialism (Methodological) one of these turns, since we're overloading her of minutiae without the overall framework.

Also you should stretch your metaphorical muscle, it's quite easy to explain concepts with the right metaphor.
 
Last edited:
Also, let's not try to teach her useless(to her) things like imaginary numbers without at least coming up a proper rationale for it.
 
Salutations Undying Queen, I'm Filter, I once knew in another realm an Undying King which did succeed in his quest to Godhood, but that's a story of another plane of existence with its own laws and unreachable to all. [OOC : Vecna from DnD has the same title]
My purpose is to attempt to shine clarity in the chaos WeThey bring, I won't speak often of tools and methods, I may clarify them or give metaphorical interpretations, my goal will mainly be explaining why WeThey offer what they offer and why it may be so obscure.
I'll likely be one of the feeblest voices as this is my curse.
I'm sadly bound by Laws that do not allow me to advise on matters of War, however this limitation of mine is only a direct one.

After exposing these trivialities I'll attempt to explain, both the obvious and the obscure.
WeThey have no knowledge nor understanding of Gods, Spirits and Magic, WeThey can just reason them as a child can daydream, WeThey will overestimate the powers, WeThey will misinterpret the nuances.
The reason why this is is that WeThey are limited to the Material, what is made of matter and what interactions matter can have.
Finding where the Material ends and the Immaterial begins will be a challenge that may take several decades to solve, a perhaps puzzling example of this would be the fact that Light is a thing of Matter.
A Law that Matter and material things follow is that they're consistent, the same actions in the same context will lead to the same end, taking identical pebbles and dropping them from a certain height multiple times will always lead them to fall as if they were the same.
This might be an obvious concept however it holds far greater wisdom than we might ever teach you.

My lessons will mainly regard a concept of infinite depth, many branches of with may well lead to the withering and wasting of intelligent minds, Philosophy: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.

I will focus on one particular branch of this infinitely branching tree, Materialism: the undoubtedly wrong assumption that nothing matter except matter, while this madness is in no uncertain terms contrary of what you know by direct experience I'd advise you not to dismiss it so lightly.
Imagine a world of Humankind, where no gods rule, no spirits wander nor answer to calls. How different would that world be? This isn't a question that has to be answered, it's just a matter which must be pondered.


Now, if I may, I'll try to untangle the threads of madness and chaos through wordplay and metaphors.

You were told a tale about crops and farming, of cycles and soil.
The reason why these tales were weaved was that plants are not so unlike from animals, they require nourishment without which they are stillborn or wither.
I assume you know that a person or animal if it's fed only one kind of meal it will starve, perhaps it'll take more time but it will feel more and more ill and eventually his blood will be so watered down that they'll die.
This is true for crops too, and that's what your magics or manure supply to spoiled ground.
However, different plants have different needs, this is the benefit of the Cycling suggested by WeThem.

The, now clearer, the purpose of Writing and Cities is the same purpose a spark has in a Wood, a spark is a source of heat that ignites dry leaves to creating even more heat.
When a person has an idea, being able to remember and spread it far and wide will be the spark for other more complex ideas to ignite.

Did anybody ever talk about Levers/cogs yet?
 
Back
Top