Remove ads

Welcome to Brighton (Mafia game)

Reader mode
shadow shinobi said:
But it could be him just carefully constructing his posts to appear that he actually knows the answer we can see them or hear their voice so we can't easily tell if they are lying or not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rikimaru said:
While I already thought of that, that type of observation is something I'd like kept within the game, so ur town in my mind (until/unless night phase changes things ofc)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, shadow shinobi and Rikimaru, if you look at your role PM, then you can see that Town's IC name for this game can be read as a clear musical reference.


Rikimaru said:
After re-reading from start of the game, I can't help but think ComiTurtle and TPK are on the same team, trying to get Nani killed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, Rikimaru, he's probably just feeling guilty about his misplay helping me get lynched last game, when we were on the same team.

...Either that, or he's sucking up to me so that I don't think of him as Scum. Welcome to Mafia, the game of paranoia!

Rikimaru said:
That's what a scum member would say!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, Rikimaru, that's what someone who knows about fallacies would say.


TheMaskedReader said:
If TPK wants us to lynch Nani, then post an analysis of their posts and why they think that Nani is scummy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The question is not whether I believe Nanimani to be Scum or not, but whether or not Nanimani is our best suspect at this point. If someone else slips up and says something suspicious, then I'll happily vote for them instead, but right now Nanimani is the only player to behave in even a slightly suspicious manner.

So far we have one "stop being stupid" votes on Rikimaru and Alphadelta each, five votes on me, and four on Nanimani.

Nanimani, when I (in effect) asked them what Town's name was, responded with a blistering personal attack and accused me of hypocrisy and not playing the game in a fun way. These pleas were expressed in provacative, explosive language intended to inspire emotional gut reactions instead of a measured, logical response, which is the way that the Scum want Town to play the game. Scum players want Town to be reactionary, they want Town to think with their gut instead of with their head because that lets a small, coordinated Scum group lead Town into lynching other Townies. Town wants to be logical, and pick apart logical inconsistencies in everyone's posting so as to identify people who are hiding information that doesn't need to be hidden, and who are lying.

I have already addressed how my question (basically -what is Town's name?) is not hypocritical, but I'll expand my argument. The behavior that made everyone upset, and that I expressed my dislike for was for people like TheMaskedReader directly quoting their role PM, and for questions like "what is Town's win condition?" being used as the holy grail of how to tell if someone was Scum or not. And that sucked. It was boring, and most importantly it could be used even into the late game to let lazy, bad Town players win over skilled Scum who would have had them dead to rights if not for increasingly specific questions about role PMs.

My question uses only information that will be revealed (and then useless) at the end of D1 or N1. Mafia is a game about hording and revealing secret information and logical deductions in order to catch traitors in the midst of Town. Mafia games where the first three days consist of "hur dur random vote because I have literally no information" are boring and contrary to the point of even playing the game. What I did with my question was inject a little more actual play into D1 without being so specific that it's not fun, or so broad that it could be used to question a second person after the first one.


My question also cannot establish Nanimani as unquestionably Town, so it's not an anti-fun question as many of the people objecting have said. Scum could have gotten the Town's name in their Role PM. My Scum faction got Town's name in their PM in the previous game, after all. Even if Nanimani said Town's name he would still be a viable "possibly Scum" player later in the game because of that.

What my question can do is find someone who is either unable or unwilling to say what Town's name is. Nanimani's emotional, personal attacks are a weak scumtell. Town does not lynch by gut reaction, but by logic. It is not a strong scumtell, but when you combine it with his possible innability to say Town's name, and he appears to be the most suspicious player we have available.

Now isn't this a whole lot more fun than just lynching somebody at random D1, and not letting them play Mafia for another few weeks because of random voting? I think it is. I think that this is great. If I'd asked a slightly different question then yes, I'd be using anti-fun measures and would have retracted my question the moment I realized what it was doing, but I chose my question very carefully to maintain... you know... the ability for us to actually play Mafia instead of Twenty Questions, or rolling dice.
 
Honestly, if Nani would just say Town's name then I'd probably be voting for Rikimaru right now. He wouldn't even have to do the fun thing I thought of an post a musical reference instead -I'd take the name and move onto people who apparently don't how logic works.
 
TPK said:
Nanimani, when I (in effect) asked them what Town's name was, responded with a blistering personal attack and accused me of hypocrisy and not playing the game in a fun way. These pleas were expressed in provacative, explosive language intended to inspire emotional gut reactions instead of a measured, logical response, which is the way that the Scum want Town to play the game. Scum players want Town to be reactionary, they want Town to think with their gut instead of with their head because that lets a small, coordinated Scum group lead Town into lynching other Townies. Town wants to be logical, and pick apart logical inconsistencies in everyone's posting so as to identify people who are hiding information that doesn't need to be hidden, and who are lying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Question here. Are you actually implying I was faking anger?
I have already addressed how my question (basically -what is Town's name?) is not hypocritical, but I'll expand my argument. The behavior that made everyone upset, and that I expressed my dislike for was for people like TheMaskedReader directly quoting their role PM, and for questions like "what is Town's win condition?" being used as the holy grail of how to tell if someone was Scum or not. And that sucked. It was boring, and most importantly it could be used even into the late game to let lazy, bad Town players win over skilled Scum who would have had them dead to rights if not for increasingly specific questions about role PMs.

My question uses only information that will be revealed (and then useless) at the end of D1 or N1. Mafia is a game about hording and revealing secret information and logical deductions in order to catch traitors in the midst of Town. Mafia games where the first three days consist of "hur dur random vote because I have literally no information" are boring and contrary to the point of even playing the game. What I did with my question was inject a little more actual play into D1 without being so specific that it's not fun, or so broad that it could be used to question a second person after the first one.

Now isn't this a whole lot more fun than just lynching somebody at random D1, and not letting them play Mafia for another few weeks because of random voting? I think it is. I think that this is great. If I'd asked a slightly different question then yes, I'd be using anti-fun measures and would have retracted my question the moment I realized what it was doing, but I chose my question very carefully to maintain... you know... the ability for us to actually play Mafia instead of Twenty Questions, or rolling dice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just... How to put it...
I legitimately don't see the difference here. It's the same thing, the only difference is you saying you'll stop.
Which, you know. You probably will. There's a good chance others won't keep up on that topic either.

But starting and asking something that, in principle, cannot be answered by people in anything other than a blank "Yes I know this/No I don't" is the still the same thing as the later steps. It's not like asking other questions produces a different effect, just more of the same effect. What line do you have with the confirmation? Two confirmed? Three? (And note how people are assuming you're town now. Hell, even I am. How many people would have any suspicion of me being maf when I mention how it's a green day we're having? [Yes, this is not the actual musical reference, it's a damn example]) And yeah, you can say they're not completely confirmed, but how many people are going to care for the next few days? Not many, I'd say.

The whole situation's annoying as shit, because I've resolved to only post it when I'm dead as a matter of principle. However, this conflicts with the fact that I really really like this role. I was practically jumping for joy in text when I confirmed it. It's not overly powerful, but it's fun, you know?
And then this is gonna turn up and make it the opposite.

And part of me hopes I die at this point, because the death message would be fun, but the larger part says no, fuck that, I got a great role, play it.
 
Nanimani said:
But starting and asking something that, in principle, cannot be answered by people in anything other than a blank "Yes I know this/No I don't" is the still the same thing as the later steps. It's not like asking other questions produces a different effect, just more of the same effect. What line do you have with the confirmation? Two confirmed? Three?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nanimani, if you are Town (or informed Scum) and look at your role PM, then you will clearly see that this question is the kind that only works once. That's precisely why I used exactly this question, as I stated clearly above. It only works on D1, when Town has no other information to go off of, and it doesn't even guarantee anything then.

Nanimani said:
The whole situation's annoying as shit, because I've resolved to only post it when I'm dead as a matter of principle. However, this conflicts with the fact that I really really like this role. I was practically jumping for joy in text when I confirmed it. It's not overly powerful, but it's fun, you know?
And then this is gonna turn up and make it the opposite.

And part of me hopes I die at this point, because the death message would be fun, but the larger part says no, fuck that, I got a great role, play it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And here we have a flat-out refusal to cooperate with Town's efforts to try and find Scum. That's not helping you look less suspicious, Nanimani.

You working with Town instead of against it in this case does NOT reveal any information about any role you may or may not have.

And I just realized something. How can you accuse me of being anti-fun on D1 when you're the person who just claimed to have a power role despite the fact that no one has pressured you to reveal whether or not you have one? Are you actually serious?

...Ugh.

Look. You just made a bigger D1 reveal than the one you've been swearing up and down that you'll never make as a matter of principle. You goofed. Just say Town's name so that we can salvage this situation as best we can, and move on to other people.
 
TPK said:
Nanimani, if you are Town (or informed Scum) and look at your role PM, then you will clearly see that this question is the kind that only works once. That's precisely why I used exactly this question, as I stated clearly above. It only works on D1, when Town has no other information to go off of, and it doesn't even guarantee anything then.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So question. Why do you think the town faction name will be revealed on death? I have both a name and job title, which both seem more likely to be posted in the end of day/night thing than the town faction name.

Anyways, yes, the question only works once. This is the same as any other PM fluff question. I still don't see the difference.
And here we have a flat-out refusal to cooperate with Town's efforts to try and find Scum. That's not helping you look less suspicious, Nanimani.

You working with Town instead of against it in this case does NOT reveal any information about any role you may or may not have.

And I just realized something. How can you accuse me of being anti-fun on D1 when you're the person who just claimed to have a power role despite the fact that no one has pressured you to reveal whether or not you have one? Are you actually serious?

...Ugh.

Look. You just made a bigger D1 reveal than the one you've been swearing up and down that you'll never make as a matter of principle. You goofed. Just say Town's name so that we can salvage this situation as best we can, and move on to other people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Have I not yet said I'd rather roleclaim than continue on with this bullshit?
Nanimani said:
I kinda want to reveal some information about my role since I do have votes, but it's hard to do without a full roleclaim, which is also too much.
Which is annoying because I like phrasing roleclaims, but it is still bad. I just... Hum...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, I think I have. Been thinking of how much is appropriate to reveal for a while now.

And in this game, I don't think "I have a role" is all that surprising. Just the impression I get.
 
Wait what
Why did I think I had a name? I just double-checked, and I can't find it.
 
Just a reminder but even if we have a hammer, it's going for plurality if time runs out. And half of the first day is gone now.
 
Man, I slept like a dead man. I'm here and I'm caught up. Anyone have anything to say?
 
AlphaDelta said:
I disagree with your assertion of false equivalency, but /shrug.

This thread's been sleepy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, why do you think that it's a false equivalency?

There's a huge difference between "what's Town's name" and "What's the wincon" or "how many words are in your wincon". That difference is that, come tomorrow after Scum kills a Townie, everyone is going to know what Town's name is. Everyone will also be able to figure out the reference once a single person reveals it, so my gambit here only works on D1, when Town has literally no other information to work off.


Nanimani's most recent objection is that he has no way to know that I'll stop with that kind of question, and that using the extremely controlled question I did will lead to asking the kind of bad questions that I don't agree to. That is the Slippery Slope Fallacy -the assumption that 1 will always lead to 2, 3, 4, and so on into steps that are unreasonable. That is a well known and often-used fallacy, and has no merit.

I have repeatedly stated that I would be fully in agreement with Nani if someone asked a question less-carefully calibrated to only work on D1, and only provide the bare minimum of information. The only thing my question can get information about is Town's IC name, and rest assured that I have taken careful note of every player who didn't understand that before someone else pointed it out.

Every player who jumped on the "TPK is demanding fluff details, which is evil" train got a big, fat, black mark beside their name in my notes. All Town PMs have an extremely obvious reference to a single famous music-related thing that makes it immediately obvious what I was going for.
 
Megaolix said:
TPK, I can't help but remember how last game, you got pissed whenever someone revealed something on the first day.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was because I was trying to limit the amount of information Town had to work with, because I was Scum that game. Scum does not want Town to make inquiries. Scum does not want Town to find and dismantle logical inconsistencies and fallacies in arguments. Scum wants Town to lynch randomly and blindly.
 
I haven't read the thread since waking up, but I will say that I was making a synth reference to the "that's what scum would say"
Or maybe I messed it up.

Hopefully I have enough time to vote for the lynch if that's happening soon.
 
Oh. Very little posted while I was asleep :/

However, Nani and TPK are pretty much town imo. We should niggle others.

I don't like TPK saying they would lynch me though :( Still not a reason to consider lynching him.
After checking the lists again, I can only go after Shadow Shinobi or ComiTurtle. SS is new so gonna show my fellow newb bias by poking at the more experienced player.

[X] Lynch ComiTurtle

And now I think I have posted way more than necessary so just gonna let the first day go by, unless I am called upon to defend myself, or ComiTurtle is made to appear more likely Town.

----
I edited with a spacebar press (and this clarification) pls no modkill/policy lynch.
All I did was spacebar to fix the vote. I hate spamming thread.
 
Last edited:
Okay, awake again.

...The more TPK talks the more I realize the stance he's using is basically my own. Which is, of course, something I find reasonable.

[x] Null
[x] Lynch Nanimani

So yeah.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top