Then again, there are a few issues.
Like naming some of their settlements Kargath.
And Orgrimmar.
And showing up to a peace meeting with King Varian of Stormwind....dressed in the plate armor of Doomhammer, wielding his weapon aka the same Doomhammer (person and weapon) who burned Stormwind to the ground, and killed King Varian's father, the previous King.
Never, refusing, in fact, to apologize for Grom's killing of Cenarius due to the New Horde's culture.
By taking responsibility.
Mmmmhph.
Yeah. there's a few issues.
Like naming some of their settlements Kargath.
And Orgrimmar.
And showing up to a peace meeting with King Varian of Stormwind....dressed in the plate armor of Doomhammer, wielding his weapon aka the same Doomhammer (person and weapon) who burned Stormwind to the ground, and killed King Varian's father, the previous King.
Never, refusing, in fact, to apologize for Grom's killing of Cenarius due to the New Horde's culture.
Behold Da Wiki said:
By taking responsibility.
Mmmmhph.
Yeah. there's a few issues.
jwolfe_beta
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Though I suppose they could have thought that was sufficient. They killed the orcs that slew Cenarius and helped the Night Elves save the entire world. What more do they want?
As for the armor and hammer, weren't they basically Thrall's symbols of office as it were?
Though I suppose that some of said actions were Blizzard wanting justification to keep the conflict ball rolling. However torroar, this is an AU so you can decide what the New Horde and Aliance are doing on Azeroth.
As for the armor and hammer, weren't they basically Thrall's symbols of office as it were?
Though I suppose that some of said actions were Blizzard wanting justification to keep the conflict ball rolling. However torroar, this is an AU so you can decide what the New Horde and Aliance are doing on Azeroth.
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jwolfe_beta
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He'd need a few generations to pull that off. The constant conflict balls everyone kept getting handed didn't help.
The armor and hammer, perhaps, but then again...eh.
The Cenarius thing however, that's a bit different. There's 'sufficient', and flat out refusing to admit anything was wrong with Cenarius dying.
I could accept it if they were like, 'but we did all that other stuff, wasn't that enough'?
And then the NE could seem the more unreasonable ones by saying 'No, no it wasn't.'
Instead it's "Hey fuck you guys, it totally wasn't us, it was orcs who drank demon blood, not us, not us not us."
"So you're not going to apologize for that, like, at all."
"Nope, Because it wasn't ussssssssssssssss we are not at fault in any wayyyyyyyyy."
The bit with the maybe it was enough to lose all those orcs and what not in the fight against the Legion? Doesn't even come up. The orcs don't even try to use that. It's just flat NO.
Anyway, that's all on another planet, so uh, yeah. Anyway, may or may not get up the first Netherwing turns either tomorrow or whatever. Maybe tomorrow tomorrow. Eh.
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Look, let's all agree both the new horde and our faction both have some major problems but are still trying their best to fix the wounds caused by their ancestors on the whole. So whatever, dranosh can hate what the old horde did that's fine, I think I draw the line at possibly hating the new horde because of it, and by proxy hating his father after he eventually learns he's repentant for what hes done. He can distrust the new horde because they don't really seperate themselves from the old horde as much as he'd like, but outright hostility is just idiocy and leads to further fracturing of a fractured people.
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True, Still hoping to cool Dranosh down first though before his meeting with the elements though considering how into balance they are.
Thrall's spirit trial was not fun. And going into it at anything other than our best seems silly.
True. Remember, for all that Dranosh really doesn't like the current legacy of his family, you gotta remember.
He got dat SAURFANG BLOOD.
His emotions run hot and fierce, and yet just like his father, his is capable of quietly reflecting on and admitting the wrongness of his actions/previous behavior.
He got dat SAURFANG BLOOD.
His emotions run hot and fierce, and yet just like his father, his is capable of quietly reflecting on and admitting the wrongness of his actions/previous behavior.
Unless there was a massive retcon, Doomhammer wasn't the one who killed King Llane, nor should have Varian thought he was. It was pretty well known that Garona Halforcen did it, and Blackhand was still Warchief and the one who took out Stormwind. It was after Stormwind fell, while Gul'dan was in a coma from trying to play in Medivh's mind, that Orgrim killed Blackhand and took over the Horde.
Of course, while Orgrim was trying to lead his people along a different path, he was still trying to conquer the Eastern Kingdoms so that they could have a fresh world that wasn't ruined, so he wasn't a good guy in a lot of ways, but he definitely wasn't the one that Varian focused his hatred on. He definitely hated Garona, who had been his father's friend, but his dislike and distrust of Thrall and the Horde were more wrapped up in his own hatred of the Orc race, though the member races of the New Horde would hardly engender feelings of trust in most people on the Alliance side, the Tauren aside.
Now Turalyon? Yeah, I could see him having a major hate for Orgrim still, and definitely wouldn't care to see another greenskin Warchief wearing the plate or wielding the Hammer.
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I fully expect their being a brawl between Dranosh and Varok once they see each other again and since they are both so badass it will go on for hours with no winner and them simply falling over from exhaustion in the end which will then move on to talking that will pull at everyone's heart strings.
Really there are going to be a lot of emotions (both good and bad) once we meet the New Horde.
I really look forward to talking to the Netherwing.
Maybe we can convince a few to move into Nagrand since it is the safest place in Outland right now? A Sort of backup nest should the worst happen to their main one while also getting the Orcs and Dragons closer together.
Really there are going to be a lot of emotions (both good and bad) once we meet the New Horde.
I really look forward to talking to the Netherwing.
Maybe we can convince a few to move into Nagrand since it is the safest place in Outland right now? A Sort of backup nest should the worst happen to their main one while also getting the Orcs and Dragons closer together.
TBH, while I can certainly believe that Dranosh would rage against his father for the actions he has taken, Varok is far more likely to admit fault and that way take the winds out of Dranosh' sails than pretty much any other orc. Because Varok knows quite well that no matter the state of the Horde right now, the Old Horde was a terrible thing, and all who were part of it either committed or were accessory to atrocities that would make some of the worst humanity has performed on Earth look pretty good in comparison.
Varok carries with him a deep sense of shame, even if at the same time there's a twisted sort of pride at having survived and thrived in such an environment.
Varok carries with him a deep sense of shame, even if at the same time there's a twisted sort of pride at having survived and thrived in such an environment.
Who knows!
Maybe a strong unified force of inhabitants might disabuse them of setting down roots so that they can begin strip mining holy sites and driving animals into extinction instead of in canon where the whole crumbling thing was just chock full of opportunity?
Or maybe not
Guess you'll find out, yeah?
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Hope if they do come over we can encourage trade with them since I would think they have some cool stuff in exchange for things we can get ourselves without destroying what is left of Outland.
I wonder what relation the Ethereals have with the Naaru in general since both are energy beings that travel between dimensions. K'ure may be able to help deal with them if the two races have some history with each other.
@torroar just so you know you forgot to threadmark the results page.
Nononono, Thrall isn't a Shaman, he's THE Shaman. He's the Elements precious little golden boy whose connection is so strong that his barely trained efforts outstrips actual Masters of the craft by leagues. Get it right.
Tough, did he ever had any trouble connecting with the Furies in canon ?
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I always found it a bit weird that Shamans worked as well as they did on Azeroth since aren't the Elementals there servants of the Old Gods?
Or do Shamans instead work with Elemental Spirits only instead so they don't work with the Old God Elementals at all?
No idea but if he does travel to Outland now the Furies have forgiven the Orcs already so he should be able to use his powers fine.
He had some issues, but he wasn't really barely trained. He did have Drek'Thar teaching him for quite some time, though the book skipped most of it rather than go through a training montage. He also gets a huge boost when he leaves as Warchief, and goes to the Mag'har to train, which is when he got outrageously powerful.
Edit Begin: Something to remember is that the Elements in Azeroth never had the betrayal of the Orcs, they are completely separated from the Furies of Draenor. When the Orcs opened themselves up to the elements again, they were embraced because there wasn't some history on the side of the spirits that required them to beg for forgiveness. All the hangups and issues were on the Orc side of the equation. : Edit End
The latter. The elementals, like Ragnaros, who served the Old Gods are from the various elemental planes rather than spirits of nature. Blizzard doesn't make a good distinction of the two really, but things like fire giants or the firebird things of the Firelands don't count as elementals in regards to Shamanistic magic.
Thrall does make mention of how the spirits are different in Draenor in the most recent expansion, and I got the impression that the furies were a bit more primal than the spirits of Azeroth, though the whole world is a bit more primal than Azeroth, so they might just be a reflection of that.
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Makes sense since Azeroth as a whole is a product of the Titans while Draenor was made naturally over time.
The two don't really have that much of, if anything at all, in common. The Naaru have always been what they are, the Ethereals are barely held together by the cloth they're wrapped in after a void lord ravaged their planet, turned them into what they are now, and forced them to flee.
That and these guys are like goblins in how their systems work, they need to see that their profits are going to improve if they're going to help anyone. Most of them at least, the Ethereum faction only care about getting revenge on the beings that did this to them.
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Just need to show how profitable it would be to trade with us rather than strip mine Outland and we are golden.