shenron
Marengo crossing the Alps
But who will be Dranosh's Scotsman?
But who will be Dranosh's Scotsman?
That one human character that died at the wraithgate that I can't remember the name of?
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
Danath Trollbane, of course!
He'd fit.
I think that Thrall's problem is that, unlike us, he lack a proper trustworthy support network to delegate duties to, forcing him to handle FAR to many things by himself. He has a VISION of what the New Horde should be but unfortunately his subordinate do not share it, so when he delegate works, said subordinates tend to twist his Vision, creating a disconnect between what Thrall wants and what the New Horde THINK he wants.
A problem that we do not have, as our own direct subordinate are completely on the same page as us. Especially after our Epic Speech.
A problem that we do not have, as our own direct subordinate are completely on the same page as us. Especially after our Epic Speech.
SneakyWalrus
Is the Water Free?
Well, another issue is the fact that he's dealing with not just Orcs. Tauren, Trolls, etc, all of them have their own differing opinions on stuff and views on how to go about it.
Add to that he then gets the forsaken and blood elves added to the horde which tends to make things more difficult for him since with a horde composed of multiple races that have differing opinions on their fellow horde races things get difficult.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Actually, the Tauren and Trolls aren't conflicting additions to the Horde. They carry a lot of the same values and revere the same things (the Spirits) as the orcs, and are very close to them due to gratitude, friendship, and respect. They are inter-knit so closely that you can basically treat the three races as a single one when making assumptions about their choices. At least while Thrall is in charge, anyways.
It's the addition of the Forsaken that really messes things up, because a significant portion of the Forsaken as a collective are actively contemptuous of the living. And the leader's majordomo is a demon. Straight up, Sylvanas' primary advisor and enforcer is a demon ultimately loyal to the Burning Legion. And the Forsaken must, by necessity, use necromancy to increase their numbers; necromancy, which is just as corruptive and evil as fel magic.
If the Forsaken are actually a member-race of the Horde when we first meet them, there is no way we'd have peace with them. Our background would literally be screaming inside the back of our minds at all times to kill the Forsaken to the very last individual.
Blood Elves wouldn't be much of an issue, I think. The only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf, currently, is whether or not they're loyal to Kael'thas first, or the Alliance first. We're likely to make some headway with the High Elves directly, with the Alliance stuff coming up soon. For the Blood Elves though, basically as long as we catch Illidan and all them as soon as they hit Outland, we can basically go with the approach of "Stop! You are being tricked down the path of corruption by the demons! Let us help you be free of their deceit and evil before it is too late! We can help you!"
It's the addition of the Forsaken that really messes things up, because a significant portion of the Forsaken as a collective are actively contemptuous of the living. And the leader's majordomo is a demon. Straight up, Sylvanas' primary advisor and enforcer is a demon ultimately loyal to the Burning Legion. And the Forsaken must, by necessity, use necromancy to increase their numbers; necromancy, which is just as corruptive and evil as fel magic.
If the Forsaken are actually a member-race of the Horde when we first meet them, there is no way we'd have peace with them. Our background would literally be screaming inside the back of our minds at all times to kill the Forsaken to the very last individual.
Blood Elves wouldn't be much of an issue, I think. The only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf, currently, is whether or not they're loyal to Kael'thas first, or the Alliance first. We're likely to make some headway with the High Elves directly, with the Alliance stuff coming up soon. For the Blood Elves though, basically as long as we catch Illidan and all them as soon as they hit Outland, we can basically go with the approach of "Stop! You are being tricked down the path of corruption by the demons! Let us help you be free of their deceit and evil before it is too late! We can help you!"
If we throw in a alternative source of magic for their addiction as part of the package deal, they'd be more than amendable.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Shamanism explicitly works to empower people who are mystically "missing" something. And hey, considering druidism is basically just a slightly different shade of the same thing as shamanism, them taking it up might help them reconnect with their distant Night Elf cousins.
Actually, I think the Forsaken thing depends. Since they were forcefully corrupted by The Lich King who was Kil'jaden's henchmen just as badly as the Orcs were corrupted by Mannoroth who was Archimonde's.
And considering what we believe in with the Laughing Skulls. As long as you wish to break away from the Chains that the Legion strapped onto you like the Forsaken that joined the Argent Crusade. Then the Mag'har would welcome them with open arms since those undead had their fate forced on them.
Though I do agree that the Undead that follow Varimathras would be akin to the Fel Orcs to us and we would slaughter Them gladly. But from what little I know of Forsaken Lore. They didn't really practice Necromancy until after Arthas got killed, Sylvannas committed suicide? and was revived again by those Valkyrur, and then started getting into her Necromancy kick.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Eh.
The problem is that the Forsaken Revel in their condition, and make no steps to actually transcend it--rather, they focus on dragging everyone down to their own level.
They're incredibly petty when you get right down to it, and remain a blight on the world because of it.
You don't get to say "But I'm a victim!" As an excuse to victimize others, and the Forsaken do that All the time.
The problem is that the Forsaken Revel in their condition, and make no steps to actually transcend it--rather, they focus on dragging everyone down to their own level.
They're incredibly petty when you get right down to it, and remain a blight on the world because of it.
You don't get to say "But I'm a victim!" As an excuse to victimize others, and the Forsaken do that All the time.
.....is it wrong of me to see the scarlet crusade as the lesser of two evils whenever the two go at it?
I'm not too sure about that. I don't think something like shamanism would simply work to cure an entire race of magical addiction considering how their use of arcane magic is like a second nature to them which led to them being exiled from their homeland.
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
For all their flaws the SC didn't create a pathogen designed to wipe out all life.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
If Shamanism can replace the horrific and corrosively addictive corruption of Fel Magic in the orcs, then it can replace the far lesser addiction to Arcane Magic that the Elves have.
I dunno about that it feels like something against the lore. The high elves ancestors never stopped their use of arcane magic despite being forbidden by the night elves which got them exiled.
Still it seems like a good question to ask the the GM about.
Would a high elves magic addiction be cured simply with shamanism or is it a different kind of issue?
FullNothingness
Mostly DHMO.
I got the impression that the blood elves are actually more addicted to arcane magic than the orc ever were to fel magic. It was just that even an completely runaway addiction to arcane magic is STILL a better idea than going the fel magic/demon blood route.
Also I think the two problems function differently, Blood Elves are more like they are continuously over stuffing themselves with arcane magic while Orcs just get loaded up on a kind of energy and then need a little energy of that sort to maintain it.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
They're different enough in that fel energy is much more potent and actively bad for you, while the elves had more time to become dependent on magic to function, but I remain convinced that shamanism is a viable option for the High/Blood Elves, and will remain so unless @torroar wants to explicitly state otherwise.
SneakyWalrus
Is the Water Free?
Wasn't the only reason Thrall accepted the Foresaken into the Horde, despite objections from the Trolls, Tauren and the Orcs, due to the Earthern Ring telling him it was a good idea?
I can't remember, but I'm fairly certain that he made the choice on account of shamanistic stuff.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
The blood elves joined because Sylvanas spent a lot of time and effort vouching for their inclusion, I think was why. It's been years, I don't remember that bit of BC plot very well.