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Warcraft: Fallen Kingdoms (Old)

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overmind said:
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I want to join the Horde.
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I'm pretty sure we actually have a better chance of allying with the forest trolls (assuming the blood elves are now horde aligned) and kicking the blood elves faces in then we do of full out joining the horde, and I know the scenario I mention isn't happening.

And its only going to get less likley after the forsaken join up with said horde.
 
Meh, i'm neutral on this subject. We're not that far off yet and considering that we have some serious undead problem, we're not going to see the Alliance for a very long time. Not like that would be a problem anyways, they got enough issue of their own to handle.

What we can do, is chopping off the forsaken before they join the horde and getting the elves back on our side. Not to mention blood elves color scheme matches the scarlet enclave so it's all good. We can just play the good old card of diplomacy that Garithos was a fuck up and that we won't be like him.

Then after that, we make sure that Lordaeron rise again. Maybe even help out with the Arathi people to get their shit back together, if we could retake Lordaeron getting the Arathi back into our fold shouldn't be a problem.
 
Restalaan said:
Meh, i'm neutral on this subject. We're not that far off yet and considering that we have some serious undead problem, we're not going to see the Alliance for a very long time. Not like that would be a problem anyways, they got enough issue of their own to handle.

What we can do, is chopping off the forsaken before they join the horde and getting the elves back on our side. Not to mention blood elves color scheme matches the scarlet enclave so it's all good. We can just play the good old card of diplomacy that Garithos was a fuck up and that we won't be like him.

Then after that, we make sure that Lordaeron rise again. Maybe even help out with the Arathi people to get their shit back together, if we could retake Lordaeron getting the Arathi back into our fold shouldn't be a problem.
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If we could retake Lordaeron We'll either have to cross Gilnean, Dalarani, Alterac or Hinterlands-aligned borders before we can reach the Arathi Highlands.

Unless we get a good navy going of course...
 
Qeqre said:
If we could retake Lordaeron We'll either have to cross Gilnean, Dalarani, Alterac or Hinterlands-aligned borders before we can reach the Arathi Highlands.

Unless we get a good navy going of course...
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Oh, my bad. I was thinking of Alterac.

Either ways, it'll be quite some time before we're even close to being done. So we shouldn't worry so much on that.
 
Our immediate diplomatic concerns will be primarily integrating the Lordaeron holdouts of LHC, Hearthglen, and eventually the ones in Southern Lordaeron into the Scarlet Crusade.

While we're doing this contacting the High Elves at Quel'Lithien Lodge to cooperate against the Scourge, and offering to take in any High Elf refugees which they're currently sheltering assuming they've already split into High/Blood Elves. Because they've a very limited ability to grow food whereas Tyr's Hand can plenty of room to grow food.

Eventually I'd like to bring them entirely into the Scarlet Crusade(Rangers are excellent guerrilla warfare soldiers something we lack). At a minimum we'd need to demonstrate that we're willing to take steps to insure their culture is preserved, and we won't be even remotely similar to Garithos.

There are two things the Blood Elves can do for us which would save a lot of lives in the long-term. Assuming the Blood/High Elf racial split hasn't occurred yet give the High Elves a one way trip to Tyr's Hand via a boat instead of kicking them out into the Plagueland to fend for themselves.Other than that cooperating with us to clear the Ghostland, and eventually the entire Eastern Plaguelands, because we will be able to provide the necessary manpower to clear their land, whereas they can sabotage Scourge engines of war, and have a considerably larger pool of mages to counter necromancers.

To do anything with Tarren's Mill, or Southshore we'd either need to purge Anderhal before conquering Strahnbrad(alternatively charm them into joining us), sneak a large enough group of soldiers past Andherhal to conquer Strahnbrad to use as a base, or contact Aerie Peak via boat to work out a push through Durnholde Keep to establish a secure line of communication with Southshore, which gives us a reasonable method for contacting Stormwind to ask for help with our Undead problem.

The third option has the advantage that it would allow Alliance forces to clear out Tarren's Mill, and Alterac before conducting a three way assault on Anderhal from Strahnbrad, Hearthglen, and Tyr's Hand.

Since we'll have already damaged the Syndicate by taking Durnhold Keep finishing the job, and tipping the conflict in the Arathi Highlands in favor of the The League of Arathor, and Gallen Trollbane seems like a course of action which would gives us an ally with excellent soldiers.

Also is anyone else amused by the fact that should we choose to join the Alliance Angelica has fairly good odds of being one of the more influential leaders, in part due to her high diplomacy stat?
 
I feel we should start trying to moderate our more fanatic individuals as soon as possible.

Is it possible to train the soldiers or even civilians how to use the most basic spells of the Light?
 
Yun said:
To do anything with Tarren's Mill, or Southshore we'd either need to purge Anderhal before conquering Strahnbrad(alternatively charm them into joining us), sneak a large enough group of soldiers past Andherhal to conquer Strahnbrad to use as a base, or contact Aerie Peak via boat to work out a push through Durnholde Keep to establish a secure line of communication with Southshore, which gives us a reasonable method for contacting Stormwind to ask for help with our Undead problem.
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Small nitpick.

Fairly certain that the rivers are bigger than in IG WoW(and the areas, and the population etc.)

That means that if we establish a dock in the Thondroril river we could sail south to Tarren Mill/Southshore(at risk of facing naval forces from Andorhal, Scholomance and Strahnbrad).

Alternatively, we could sail underneath the Thandol span towards Menethil Harbour or Southshore(at risk of getting pelted by the Dark Iron and encountering the Forsaken Fleet) if we establish that eastern harbour near the Scarlet enclave.
 
I just had a thought. According to Warcraft Lore Balnazzar should eventually try to kill and replace the head of the Crusade, Saidan Dathrohan in WOW, how can we prevent that here?
 
whydoesitmatter said:
I just had a thought. According to Warcraft Lore Balnazzar should eventually try to kill and replace the head of the Crusade, Saidan Dathrohan in WOW, how can we prevent that here?
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GM already stated it was the result of a nat 1.

Just to be on the safe side, we're avoiding any reckless asaults on Stratholme.

Edit: failed roll* not necessarily a nat 1. just a failed roll.

Relevant posts:

Genezz said:
No, I´m not sure when the possession happened in canon but I´m having it happen some time after the Crusade was founded and as you start right after the Crusade was founded it hasn´t happened yet. Of course it could still happen.
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Genezz said:
I won´t auto fail anything, so you don´t have to worry about that, but he could still die due to bad rolls.
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Yeah. No assaults on Stratholme for like, a while. We need to be much more powerful before we try that shit. And when we do, try everything we can to avoid splitting up. Because that's what happened in canon, they got split up, Saidan got killed, and when he showed up again it was because a dread lord was puppeting his corpse.

Also: I don't really wanna kill the Forsaken. Some of them really aren't that bad. We just need to either make Sylvanas stop being such a sour puss or just diplomatically wrangle any of the freed undead who don't want to serve her. Cause laborers who don't tire that we can keep not being uber evil is really nice for productivity.
 
Also, if any of your scarlet crusaders train their child to be some kind of undead terminator and she comes back as a forsaken. Probably want to avoid ostracizing her just because she's undead now.
 
torroar said:
Also: I don't really wanna kill the Forsaken. Some of them really aren't that bad. We just need to either make Sylvanas stop being such a sour puss or just diplomatically wrangle any of the freed undead who don't want to serve her. Cause laborers who don't tire that we can keep not being uber evil is really nice for productivity.
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Best way to do that would be to probably ally and help the blood elves and give her The Lady's Necklace.
 
torroar said:
Also: I don't really wanna kill the Forsaken. Some of them really aren't that bad. We just need to either make Sylvanas stop being such a sour puss or just diplomatically wrangle any of the freed undead who don't want to serve her. Cause laborers who don't tire that we can keep not being uber evil is really nice for productivity.
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Didn't the undead have to actively try to not be dicks to everybody?

I think it had something to do with all positive emotions(including empathy) being dampened while most of the negative ones remained the same(anger, hate, sadism, schadenfreude...)
 
For some of them, sure, but what I'm seeing here is a lot of generalization: Kill the Forsaken, Get Rid of the Forsaken, Cut Down the Forsaken.

It's an issue the canon Scarlet Crusade had where they couldn't differentiate individuals, and I'd like to avoid it.

There are some famous Forsaken who joined the Ardent Crusade like http://wowpedia.org/Leonid_Barthalomew

Some of them are perfectly fine just being miners, or farmers, and not being all derpy evil.

Sylvanas is the one who wallowed and wallowed and wallowed and decided that the very existence of the Forsaken was one of sad sad 'Make our path and slaughter anyone who gets in our way' blah blah. When the woman who helped lead you to freedom from the Scourge says that, a lot of them who no longer have alternatives or leaders who would take them listen.

So yeah, Putress and his ilk are shit and should burn. But all of the Forsaken? Nah.
 
Probably going to take some work though. Ignoring the more zealous members, everyone in the crusade has little to no reason to do anything with the undead besides putting them back in the ground.
 
veekie said:
We'd need to learn more of the Light before we can even use any yet.
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Oh, I know. I just thought it would be a good idea in the future to have everyone be able to use the simplest holy spells to combat the undead and demons better. All high elves were required to learn the simplest arcane spells so I thought we could try something similar here with the Light.
 
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The problem is Light use is based on conviction and devotion rather than a learned skill. You need great cultural changes to make it even feasible.
torroar said:
Yeah. No assaults on Stratholme for like, a while. We need to be much more powerful before we try that shit. And when we do, try everything we can to avoid splitting up. Because that's what happened in canon, they got split up, Saidan got killed, and when he showed up again it was because a dread lord was puppeting his corpse.

Also: I don't really wanna kill the Forsaken. Some of them really aren't that bad. We just need to either make Sylvanas stop being such a sour puss or just diplomatically wrangle any of the freed undead who don't want to serve her. Cause laborers who don't tire that we can keep not being uber evil is really nice for productivity.
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It's like the Breaking of the Fellowship.

Never split the party. It's happened in LotR, it's happened in RoTK. Splitting up the team is the beginning of the end.
 
Sorry to botter, but I wanted to ask, If w are planning to retake the Plaguelands, then how are we going to make sure that we don't get swamped with undead after our first victory?
 
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