(Un)Happy Family [Worm/Elden Ring]

It's either QA alone or what is left of Eden as a whole, either way the goals are going to be largely similar. I think we'll be able to be certain based on how it reacts to other parahumans though. Personally I would assume just QA but who knows how all of the gods around might have changed certain things.

I was eight to suspect Eden might be in play but this is not how I excepted that to be revealed. Also looks like Eden is closer to her canon state than I thought as well, which is definitely going to continue to be less than fun for Taylor.
 
Eden confirmed killed. I'm kind of shocked that it was Eden that connected to Taylor, but in retrospect they definitely fit more as an Outer God than just Queen Administrator. Also, this means the stakes are a lot higher.

Also, this does not appear to be a case of those that live in death, but something different. Maybe it has to do with entropy or the endless void or, perhaps, even the precipice. A literal interpretation of staring into the void, and having it staring back. I'm not sure, but I am excited about the metaphysics. Coming up with that kind of stuff is literally half the fun of these sites.
 
If given access to the kind of conceptual magic that the lands between have access too, Eden might well be able to stave off death even longer, or maybe even reverse it.

Zion can actually save Eden with the powers he has access to. No conceptual magic required. Of course, neither Taylor's family nor Eden itself know that...
 
I had been guessing QA, but I really can't fault this twist at all.

That which is dead do still eternal lie...

Quoting Lovecraft? Nice, and of course, very appropriate.

Or was Lovecraft quoting Ranni? 🧐

...while not as purely entropic as Destined Death, the Frenzied Flame represents accepting you're going to die.

Uh, I think you have that backward? Destined Death is/was part of the Golden Order. It's even implied in its name, everything dies, but in it's proper time and place. Marika rejected that idea, by removing the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. So conversely, leaving the Rune in place would have been an acceptance that all will die in time.

Furthermore, the Frenzied Flame is the Outer God of chaos. Even to the point of madness and the destruction of all things. By definition, the Frenzied Flame is more entropic than Destined Death.
 
Uh, I think you have that backward? Destined Death is/was part of the Golden Order. It's even implied in its name, everything dies, but in it's proper time and place. Marika rejected that idea, by removing the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. So conversely, leaving the Rune in place would have been an acceptance that all will die in time.

Furthermore, the Frenzied Flame is the Outer God of chaos. Even to the point of madness and the destruction of all things. By definition, the Frenzied Flame is more entropic than Destined Death.
Destined Death is a natural part of things in the Golden Order, but the powers derived from it's removal and misuse, such as Deathblight and Ghost Flame, are not.
 
Uh, I think you have that backward? Destined Death is/was part of the Golden Order. It's even implied in its name, everything dies, but in it's proper time and place. Marika rejected that idea, by removing the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. So conversely, leaving the Rune in place would have been an acceptance that all will die in time.

Furthermore, the Frenzied Flame is the Outer God of chaos. Even to the point of madness and the destruction of all things. By definition, the Frenzied Flame is more entropic than Destined Death.
We don't, but we'll get more into Destined Death later in the fic.
 
Zion can actually save Eden with the powers he has access to. No conceptual magic required. Of course, neither Taylor's family nor Eden itself know that...
I don't think he can, actually. If I recall the WoG correctly, it was possible when Contessa and Doc Mom originally defeated Eden, but not after they started pillaging Eden's corpse for their vials—at least not after doing so for thirty years. Eden is beyond Zion's ability to restore, which is why he gave into despair even after finally finding her in canon; if he was capable of fixing her at that point, there is nothing that anyone in that room could have done to stop him because he would definitely have PtV'd that and shut down all attempts to do so.
 
Zion can actually save Eden with the powers he has access to. No conceptual magic required. Of course, neither Taylor's family nor Eden itself know that...
I don't think he can, actually. If I recall the WoG correctly, it was possible when Contessa and Doc Mom originally defeated Eden, but not after they started pillaging Eden's corpse for their vials—at least not after doing so for thirty years. Eden is beyond Zion's ability to restore, which is why he gave into despair even after finally finding her in canon; if he was capable of fixing her at that point, there is nothing that anyone in that room could have done to stop him because he would definitely have PtV'd that and shut down all attempts to do so.

Can confirm what Vicjer said, and would in fact have pointed out the same thing if he didn't.

Eden was possible to save, then they double tapped her, and the funniest part is, they don't even know that, Cauldron didn't know Zion could have recovered her from what was done originally.
 
She grinned, wide and happy, and I realised - I'd never seen her smile like that. Not as Danny-Dad, not like this. In that moment, fire behind her, she looked at peace.
Hm. No wonder Marika and Godfrey were together for a time. Both reveled in applying some form of purposeful destruction- She her Flame as it appears to be so, and he his lightning fast blows that struck with the weight of mountains (no, really, I've seen few From bosses whose single blows can inflict the level of damage his do).

Not quite up to the most recent chapter yet, but I am enjoying what I see thus far.

Edit: Okay, now I am. Wow. That Eden twist I did not see coming. Well done.
 
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1.7
The Hebert Family would really like the Ghostbusters to stop leaving them on hold, please.
Special thanks to prime beta Lucky38, Canon Overlord @Ganurath, @hellgodsrus for being my loveliest wife and co-author, and @SolarFlare for being our wonderful supportive girlfriend!
Enjoy and gib feedbacc!

1.7
Be Thou Mine Greatest Repentance
-.-.-​

The needle Dad had stuck in my hand had vanished into shimmering dust after a few minutes, but Lost Paradise hadn't tried climbing back into life again. Not yet. I could feel it, there, quiet and dead and waiting. Waiting for what, I wasn't sure - a moment when I wasn't paying attention? When Dad and Ranni weren't paying attention? For something else? How could something dead wait? How could it think and feel so cold and alone and -

It was harrowing, the thought that I could go through that again at any moment, that I could be replaced by the revenant of an outer god. I was being fucking haunted in the most literal sense.

Eden didn't even have the grace to be something I could kill.

There were still lingering effects from what had happened, beyond just my own fear. Looking at the world and things felt deeper, like I'd had one eye closed. Other things, things I couldn't quite quantify.

And more than that, I felt… tougher. Dropping the cooler on my foot, I'd barely even noticed it. Trying to tear at my own skin to carve out the god - as if that would work, as if Dad and Ranni wouldn't stop me - had been useless. I felt - sometimes - like I could see movement near me, before it happened, how I could get out of its way. Defences.

We were back home now. I'd managed to make it to the couch, to lie down on it to hide how badly I was shaking, keeping my eyes fixed on the ceiling. Ranni and Dad were discussing - not arguing, for once, and that was almost as horrifying as their gentle silence and soft reassurances in the car had been - about how to train me. What to train me in. How to keep myself safe if neither of them were there for whatever reason, good or bad.

"Do I get a say in this?" I mumbled, barely tilting my head to look at Dad's armchair. I needed a say in something, and catharsis in the form of breaking things with a hammer or a sword or my bare hands would be - something.

Ranni twisted from the cushion she sat on, on the repaired coffee table. "Dost thou have a say to give?" Her ghost self had narrowed its eye but her doll-self's eye was wide and blue and calm.

… well, she had me there. "Uhh." I tried for a smile. It felt like a grimace. "Hitting something with a hammer sounds fun - or at least simple?"

"Mayhap. Truthfully…"

"We think you would be best suited to an adaption of the training of Black Knives had." Dad leant forward, elbows on her knees, hands clasped, almost a pose I'd seen him use as Danny. "Since it is a training program that both Ranni and I have worked on before. Though I believe it should be changed significantly since the combat you face will likely be against multiple opponents - "

"And what if she faces one, singular, stronger opponent? The knives could handle small groups as is your concern, but also face truly unique enemies and kill them."

"And that was due to their use of Destined Death. Which - "

"With a felled patron is too great a risk, I am aware." Ranni made a face and flapped her upper left arm distractedly. "Truthfully, any training involving one of the true Knives would be - hm." Her eyes narrowed in thought. "Perhaps - that woman. My Consort's Maiden."

"Her?"

"She fought using that training, and I was not the one who acquitted her so. But she used magic born of the Erdtree - "

"She was a desperate shot in the dark attempt to succeed, Ranni, and I would not train any of my children thus." Dad had reared back behind the curtain of her hair, and I could hear the soft crack of pain as she added, "Again."

"Um. What is Destined Death?" Just saying it left my heart feeling cold. Not the comforting chill of Ranni's touch, but something… deeper. Like jagged shards of ice piecing all my veins at once, like the cold of the starry void above was a warm summer's day. More than just physical.

Dad rolled her shoulders. "Complicated. Something I should never have created."

"You give yourself far too much credit. It existed before thee, at least in part."

Dad grimaced, ran a hand through her hair. She looked so tired. "Not in the form it became. That was due to - it is death, Taylor. It is an ending. Destined Death is what ends anything. A tool for that purpose, made when I first… edited the Elden Ring, to prevent myself or my bloodline from ever being touched by the Rune of Death which is what it was before, when it was part of a whole." I couldn't be affected by true Death? Paradise Lost almost shuddered in delight at the thought, squirming silver and black behind my eyes. "The idea that everything has its place and time - and I isolated it. Bonded it to something truly insidious to keep both contained. Together they are - the all-death, distilled. Destined. I can't - put it any clearer than that."

I swallowed, and tucked my legs up a little. "Could we kill the Patron with it? Properly, this time?"

"Maybe. We'd have to find your Patron first. Truly find them, and even then - its removal merely removed fated death, not deaths by violence, and it was made to reduce the potency of the godkilling flame, the death within turning on that power itself. It's not - something I have access to any more. Another guards it, and that is… for the best."

"And calling the one who wields it would likely not end well, no." Ranni made a face. "If we are to train Taylor in methods of combat that do not involve incantations or the risk of deepening her Patron's pledge, I think it best we train her as you trained Melina."

Dad flinched.

"Is she another sister?" I sat up slowly.

"No," said Dad. Her voice was flat and rough.

"Yes, in a way," said Ranni. "Though I did not know her as a sibling. I knew her only as my Consort's Maiden. As thou may hath guessed, there was much weight put on being… paired with an Empyrean. Not all were Empyreans, though, so culturally as the practice spread, it became understood that to truly commune with the gods, with Marika's Golden Order, one required a woman who could translate their messages, and turn thy runes into strength."

"Runes?" I hadn't really heard of the concept being used like that before - Ranni had mentioned it from time to time but - I needed to know, to bury myself in knowing something that wasn't Dad's weird grief or the dead god in the back of my head.

"Memories of skill, echoes of action, codified." Dad had leant forward again, slumped. "Shadows of the nature of reality, won through - normally won through combat. But simply through life one could accumulate a number of them. And with a connection to the Erdtree - another's connection, aiding you - you could… weave them into yourself. Alter your nature to be beyond what it should be."

Like living several lifetimes, having all that strength and experience you could never truly get on your own. It was a compelling idea - but I could feel Lost Paradise's stirring interest too, tangling in mine, corrupting it. I had to change the subject - "And Melina had this connection? Is that what being a maiden means?"

Both were very quiet. Dad's hair hung in front of her face, that blank, implacable curtain of gold.

Eventually, Ranni looked up from under her hat. "Yes."

"I… take it this was a bad thing, then. Like any connection to any outer god would be."

"Somewhat. The issue is more… she… you remember how I said that the Flame of Ruin achieved its vengeance?"

"Against you, yes." I nodded slowly. "Melina… had something to do with that?"

"Marika trained her to do that. To - sacrifice herself to burn the Erdtree. To weaken god, so mine Consort might use a weapon infused with the strength of ancient dragons to slay it." Ranni sighed. "It was - she was my Consort's greatest friend. And nothing could save her."

Dad's reluctance became a lot clearer. But the thought - the idea of training someone, let alone your own child, to be a sacrifice… could she do that with me? Would she? She was there, frozen and hurt and I hated that that was my first thought, that I still didn't really trust Dad, even this Dad who'd been helping me, who'd saved me from the monster in my mind. So instead, I asked, "Is there anything we can do? To help?" Because - she looked so hurt, so sad -

"Train you. Help you. Be better than I was before." Dad had her face buried in her hands. "It's all I can do."

I went over to pull her into as tight a hug as I could manage. "Then. Then that's what we'll do."

-.-.-

Later, once the children were in bed - or doing whatever this fragment of Ranni did to rest - she went to her wife's room. Sat beside her bed, looking at the still, motionless camouflage she'd worn to fit into this world. The slow rise and fall of her chest. Sometimes - sometimes she couldn't help but wonder if Rennala was alive under the disguise, if that was why - she had not moved in years, not eaten more than thin broth carefully poured down her throat, not -

She clasped her wife's hand. Like this, her own dwarfed it to an almost comical extent.

"'nala, darling, I don't know what to do." She pressed her forehead to the back of her hand. "I don't know what to do. I was not - I was never made to bear a parent's burden. I have not the heart for it. The ability. You know I didn't - that I don't understand it. Children. That I hated to bear them, hated that I was forced to bear them. That I was never good with them. I don't understand them. I can either - treat them as rivals and equals, as I came to with Ranni, or - as I treated all else, as tools. Weapons. Nothing at all."

She took as deep a breath as she could. Exhaled. It kept the telltale, awful prick in her eyes at bay.

"You - made me believe that I had compassion in my heart. Twice over. Helped it to ignite, then reignite. But without you - I fear I let the fire fade to mere ash. And I don't know how to start it again. I know - Taylor deserves a parent who can. Who can do more than plan and shape and craft, who can love and care and - " It was hard, to keep her breaths even. "But you are - like this, and I am here, and I don't know what to do."

She tried to relax her grip, at least a little. Curled her fist in the sheets instead. She couldn't cry. Wouldn't allow herself to. She couldn't - oh, those were. Old thoughts. She could cry now, couldn't she? No-one would be there to judge her for it.

And so Marika wept. She couldn't stop habit from making her keep her lips closed, trying to swallow her sobs, as though a guard or a husband or a god might notice if she let herself be loud. But she let herself surrender to grief, to the endless well of it that poured through her more desperate than any power she had ever reached for. Let her mind spiral and shatter and break and think in fragments of furious, servile Radagon and rageful, terrified Daniel - and the desperate, pleading parts she had not named: the quiet despair of the girl she'd been before the tree had spoken to her, the flat hatred of the queen, the joy of the conqueror, the pained and weakened and tortured and broken and -

She let herself be vulnerable.

She hated it. Her own vulnerability. That she could let - anyone into her heart, where they could hurt her by dying or suffering or not being there with her and that people crawled in anyway. That she let them in. That they curled up in her heart, like an injured rat crawling into a corner and then died and rotted and she had to live with that stink infecting her mind like smoke from a fire -

She pressed the heels of her hands to her eyes. Drawing on the Frenzied Flame at all had been a mistake. Teaching Taylor here and not somewhere secure, and safe, and far away, and much later, had been a mistake. Not beginning to try and sever Taylor's connection as soon as possible had been a mistake.

… pretending she could settle here, live among these people, and be happy with Rennala, had been a mistake.

If Ranni's full self was still out there and not finally slain by one of the things she hunted, she would probably enjoy putting an end to that mistake. She couldn't even understand why she had been granted this second chance, after everything she'd done, why. She didn't deserve this. She still didn't deserve this. She couldn't see - children, people, just…

Things. Tools. Shadows, cast in her own light, in the tree's light shining through -

Nononono. She tried to bury her face in Rennala's stomach, like she'd used to when the nightmares were at their worst, when the itching in her wrists wouldn't stop, when the parts of herself that had wanted to desperately be the tree's wholely, the parts of herself that had thought that that might make the doubt and fear stop, the parts of herself that coalesced into the things in her named Radagon churned in her mind and tried to rip her apart once again.

Despite only being Rennala's disguise, Annette's hair had still been growing for the eon she had been stuck like this. Reaching further and further - and she couldn't bring herself to cut it. It tickled at the back of her neck now as she wrapped her arms tight round her.

So thin and weak. She could feel the bones under Annette's skin far too easily. She'd tried to - to move her muscles through exercise at first, in case that roused her, but it had become so easy to fail at that.

To simply hang above her, suspended in agony upon her own mistakes once more.

Her wife's words came back to her, like a memory faded in despair. We are here to be better. Start with the little things, the things you know you can do. Every little bit helps, gets us one step closer. Even the prodigies of Raya Lucaria started by flinging pebbles, after all.

"But I face a mountain of boulders bearing down on me. If I do not start throwing more than pebbles - "

She clung tighter.

Don't be afraid to ask for help, especially when learning.

"No-one to ask for help. Save Ranni and she's - she's gone, save for a moment, an instant. A piece. Just like me."

Then ask. Work together. Just stop being so dense! Phantom itch from that time Rennala had rolled up a newspaper to smack her with, possibly playfully, possibly seriously.

Marika couldn't help the little ghost of a smile that crawled across her face. "... I'm made of rock, my star heart, I can't help but be - "

Her eyes snapped open. Looked at her motionless face. "Rennala? Annette?"

Because - those replies. They'd been - just what she'd say. And she'd - she could have sworn she'd felt her for a moment -

I won't give up on you. So stop giving up on yourself, dear heart.

The ghostly touch of imagined lips against her own.

"Rennala! Rennala, please - wake up, I won't - I promise I won't give up on myself, I'm here, we're here, please, please - "

I can't, not yet.

" - nonono, how do I - how do I help you, please, I left you alone so long I can't leave you alone again, I won't, I won't let them take me away from you - "

Calm yourself, dear heart. False sensation of arms wrapped around her. A face in her neck. It cannot be rushed, lest it destroy us both.

"Please." Left to begging, like a child, like a peasant, like an invalid. Rendered helpless, once again, by those who'd wormed their way into her heart.

This is not the end, Marika. I will be at your side again. I promise. Don't lose faith. A hand caressing her cheek, thumb brushing over the cracks, gilded with pain. Soon. I promise.

"Darling - star heart - "

The sensation was gone.

Marika was alone, once again, with the cruellest of gifts -

Hope.
 
You know, despite the obvious issues, Eden really isn't the worst patron Taylor could be stuck with. At the end of the day, all Eden wants is a chance to return to life, and I'm not entirely sure she really cares what form that life will take. I know it is both Elden Ring and Worm standard procedure to assume the worst as default, but for all we know Eden could be reborn as Taylor's sister and that would be enough.
 
Perhaps. But like Marika is finding out, to link events somewhat, Hope can be a painful two way street sometimes. It can be that which buoys souls in difficult times, but can also burn them like the Frenzied Flame if it doesn't pan out.
True, but I don't think Eden will intentionally cause trouble for Taylor and co, beyond generally urging Taylor on in the hopes that Taylor will discover a means of restoring Eden to some semblance of Life.
 
Honestly at least the family that's still alive and active are 2 for 3 of the ones who know just how shit being an outer God puppet is.
 
You know, despite the obvious issues, Eden really isn't the worst patron Taylor could be stuck with. At the end of the day, all Eden wants is a chance to return to life, and I'm not entirely sure she really cares what form that life will take. I know it is both Elden Ring and Worm standard procedure to assume the worst as default, but for all we know Eden could be reborn as Taylor's sister and that would be enough.
Eden's plans would involve Earth being destroyed just as thoroughly as it would be if the Frenzied Flame got its way. She doesn't just want to return to life, she wants eternal life and growth. Earth is just fuel for that search, and even if Eden could be placated with knowledge, eventually it would run out.
 
and I would not train any of my children thus.

I was going to say that Melina is referred to as *Marika's daughter* in the game's files and all that implies but:

Seem like you did see it and took it into account, be careful Taylor, you have another sibling willing to come help you.

I needed to know, to bury myself in knowing something that wasn't Dad's weird grief or the dead god in the back of my head.

Some people have stress eating, Taylor has stress learning.

The dead god in the back of her head approves.
 
Seem like you did see it and took it into account, be careful Taylor, you have another sibling willing to come help you.
(un)fortunately, Melina succeeded in her goal of committing the most grand of arson, the cardinal sin, and threw such shade upon the Erdtree that it burst into flames
 
Eden's plans would involve Earth being destroyed just as thoroughly as it would be if the Frenzied Flame got its way. She doesn't just want to return to life, she wants eternal life and growth. Earth is just fuel for that search, and even if Eden could be placated with knowledge, eventually it would run out.
I'm...not so sure about that. See, the Entities are not evil beings, they dont necessarily WANT to destroy everything in their path, any more than a scientist wants to make their lab rats suffer. I highly doubt that the Entities would ever stop out of any kind of compassion or sense of mercy, that would require them to actually preserve their victims as anything more than petri dishes of bacteria, but if they were to be given another way, one that actually works, I think they'd take it. And I am fairly sure that the power of the Lands Between and the Runes would work for that. Plus, I have to wonder if she'd even be capable of that now. I dont think shes quite the same being as she was before she died, any more than Godwyn is in his current state of undeath.
 
(un)fortunately, Melina succeeded in her goal of committing the most grand of arson, the cardinal sin, and threw such shade upon the Erdtree that it burst into flames

Really? With all your references to the flame of chaos and the way they talked about her, I thought you had gone for the ending where you use the three fingers to have her survive, then use the needle to say *gotcha!* and choose another ending.

That's what most of those who likes her do, after all.
 
The problem is that Entities lack any sort of ethics and are pursuing data/knowledge in pursuit of their true goal to infinitely grow forever like interdimensional slime mold. They are a particularly selfish example of instrumental convergence. If Taylor and Marika gave Eden the ability to create matter and energy ex nihilo, then she'd still destroy/consume the planet to get more energy and matter to grow that much faster.

It might be possible that Eden might be different now that she's dead or would change if Marika revived her, but is that really worth the risk? If given the choice, I'd prefer a being like the freaking Formless Mother over her. At least that thing was willing to adopt the albinaurics.
 
Know what I can't wait for?

Some shit going down. Endbringer attack. S9 attack. Taylor in incredible danger.

And out walks Marika.

Her golden hair slowly bleeding to red, curves disappearing and body shifting. Reaching down and ripping a post from the ground that transforms in golden light in her... now HIS... hands.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN-9bfbCAAc

And Radagon of the Golden Order goes to War.
 
It is infinitely more likely that Ranni and her Tarnished just got locked outside when Zion threw up that stupid dimensional barrier around Earth-Bet and it's immediate parallels. Taking the both of them on, at the same time, is kind of an ask even for eldritch abominations.
Ehhhhh... while I do agree that the two getting locked out is likely what happened, and I will admit that they are CRAZY powerful lorewise, saying that fully fledged entity- not a shard, and entity- would possibly lose against the two is the same kind of ridiculously massive lowball of the entities that people do when they write crossovers, and the characters they bring over (like literally any Fate servant) are a comparable threat to shards, endbringers, and scion himself.

Like, yeah those two could most definitely beat most shards in a straight 2v1 or even 2v2, but the endbringers alone would be comparable to Elden Beast even if you want to lowball them as in the same class but weaker than it. MAYBE they could beat The Warrior after he's split of all the shards and kept his main abilities from canon, but that's still highballing them and lowballing him, and even then, win or lose, it'd be an extreme dif fight for them.

Eden's plans would involve Earth being destroyed just as thoroughly as it would be if the Frenzied Flame got its way. She doesn't just want to return to life, she wants eternal life and growth. Earth is just fuel for that search, and even if Eden could be placated with knowledge, eventually it would run out.
I don't actually think that's the case here though? Like yeah, normally Eden's goals would be the regular Entity thing of beating entropy and infinite procreation, but the subtext in the chapters read to me like Eden lost much of itself in Death and, being dead, it's only driving motivation now is to no longer be dead. It reads like Death has done something to Eden similar to Godwyn's circumstances, at least thematically similar if not mechanically, in that 'climbing the rope' back to life is moreso just something Eden happens to be doing due to- obligation? Instinct?- rather than something it is alive/aware enough to decide "I'm going to get back to life, then I'm going to continue doing my thing, business as usual."

Like, the chapter shows us outright that dying was something that REALLY fucked up Eden, way beyond the downplay of unplugged and draining battery analogies that have been tossed around. It isn't something that just *plugging in* will fix, there is no bandaid to patch this up and continue as usual, this is literally Eden's equivalent of *head chopped off, as the seconds tick down I contemplate the fact that I'm dead and that fact just hasn't caught up to me yet*.

As far as I can tell, there really shouldn't be any "continue the cycle" shenanigans taking place, as a severed head yet to lose consciousness wouldn't likely be thinking about which task it's going to work on at it's job tomorrow. If Taylor actually ends up bringing Eden back from Death, I would assume Eden would then reformulate it's priorities, while putting Taylor on a metaphorical VIP list, or maybe even in the extreme case become the glow-up of fanon Halping!QA
 
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