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TreeQuest: Magitech (Riot Quest)

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Phigment said:
Most recent posted draft of Ancient Tree rules is here.
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Phigment said:
Prior to selecting any perks or disadvantages, your stat line will look like:
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Which brings me back to "Why would I even want to upgrade to Ancient Tree in the first place right now?"

Genuine question, really, because ultimately on the whole I see the "upgrade" to Ancient Tree as a downgrade unless I wait for another 25 or 50 votes so I can keep from having all my stats basically dumped down to below basic starting tree level.

Ylamona's still holding out at basic starting tree level until a certain movement level is reached; if advancing to Ancient Tree means I have to lose a combined 12 dice and have to spend most my trait points getting back to where I used to be, then I'm inclined to just say "No thanks, I'm good right now".
 
...Wait a minute, rereading the update, and I just realized it's possible that the Dire Bat we can capture/tame might be one of the poisonous ones. If so, that'd be a lot more valuable to us than just a bog-standard Dire Bat (though I'm interested in it either way).

@Robinton Can I get a confirmation on the status of the deadlocked poisonous Dire Bat?
 
Robinton said:
Elder Tree upgrade time!

@ConfusedPotato, as a Mind Tree with 5 Special actions, 3 Research actions, and 1 Communication action, you are eligible for Elder Mind Tree. You could take Research Tree with another Research action. You could probably take something along the lines of Unpredictable Tree as well.
@Fabricati, as a as a Heart Tree with 5 Survival actions, 2 Special action, 1 Offense action, and 1 Defense action, you are eligible for Elder Heart Tree, Eldest Tree, or Survival Tree.
@fictionfan, as a Root Tree with 4 Special actions, 3 Survival actions, and 2 Offense actions, you are eligible for Elder Root Tree, Eldest Tree, and probably a couple of other options. Any thoughts?
@NSchwerte, as a Root Tree with 9 Growth actions, you are eligible for Elder Root Tree or Growth Tree.
@Thanatosra, as a Mind Tree with 9 Communication actions, you are eligible for Elder Mind Tree or Communication Tree.

As always, let me know if I've missed any patterns!


I need to get the Ancient Tree system working.

Players who are eligible for an Ancient Tree upgrade: @Angelform, @Tarumath, @Walliseatscheese, @Aerrow Shadow, @Box Lunch, @LinkOnScepter, @Pyro Hawk, @Randino Treviani, @Space Jawa, and @TheodorePiesley.

At this point, I'm not sure whether my update schedule will be:
1. Ancient Tree System, Dubiously-Intelligent-Design, TreeQuest.
or
2. Dubiously-Intelligent-Design, Ancient Tree System, TreeQuest.
But it will probably be one or the other.
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Would a Mad Science Tree work? Something halfway in-between Unpredictable and Research? Aka. write-ins and research.
 
A productive battle. Back to business as usual.

[X][Action] Let it Rain
[X][Squirrel] Begin instruction in Jerboa-jitsu
[X][Deer] Keep watch over where those portals were
[X][Moles] Dig holes to better aerate the mycellium farms
[X][Beavers] Sponge poison from the lake using wood pulp
[X][Bees] Investigate the property damage to Newton village
[X][Ants] Hide spies inside of the traders' cart before they leave
[X][Wolves] Spar against the squirrel martial artists
[X][Corvids] Teach the eyeless Forest the benefits of camouflage
[X][Pollen] Poisonous
[X][Monster] Dire Bat & Lesser Wraith

Drought's so bad it's breaking even with the Summer sunlight bonus. I'd like to finish our Cave Entrance, but that can wait until Winter.

If we get the Lesser Wraith I'd be willing to post my own actions towards taming and feeding it.
 
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Fabricati said:
Hm. Thoughts on getting to my end goal of adventurer/paladin tree? I figured that of course the place to start was where all such do, the heart, but, now I need to seriously consider my pattern more carefully and hold off evolving for now.
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Hmm. Good question.
I assume you want at least Forest-level Movement, and perhaps a step beyond.
You would need some points in Defense and maybe Offense?
A bit of Magic is often useful for a Paladin.

Are you trying to build a Tree that goes off on adventures abroad? Is that the intent?

BeepSmile said:
-items that boost "stats" [Int, Wis, Str ect]
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Note that boosting physical stats is generally MUCH easier than mental.
Really, the Forest is weird, being able to boost mental stats for entire groups of Creatures. Doubly so when you add the whole "incredible coordination" thing.
Something like a "Ring of Superintellect" would be... Um... Well, not as game-changing as the One Ring to Rule Them All, but...

BeepSmile said:
-idk, like... 'drones'? As in remote controllable magic flying devices that allow the operator to see through it's visual sensors
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We call them "Corvids."

Walliseatscheese said:
Gonna draw up a full reaction and vote later, but @Robinton how many Bats and Wraiths are available for Pet Conversion?
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1 and 2.
You could possibly salvage another Bat if you're quick, for 2 and 2.

Toboe said:
The count of special Trees seems to miss one of our upgrades, it claims 2 Shield and 1 Elder Shield, but:
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Updated. (My notes had the update; I just hadn't updated the published post.)

Sir Plusse said:
@Robinton Does the Dire Bat's Resource drain continue after we permanently control it?
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Only in wintertime.

Toboe said:
Maybe we should the Disney Princess interrogation next turn and make a plan for 1 turn of auto focus (for that sweet 25% bonus) of all 4 Focus?
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If you change the AutoFocus every turn, at some point I'm nerfing that.
But not immediately.

mastigos said:
We are? I thought we were interested primarily in fungi. Sorry I've been too busy with the fungi to really pay attention so I just kind of assumed. :p
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It's a Riot Quest.
If you're interested in something - sure, look into it!

fictionfan said:
Can I be a Elder bee tree?
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Yes.
7 to anything Bee related, 2 otherwise?

Sir Plusse said:
Of course, Dire Bats are probably more carnivorous than the common variety, because monsters.
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True.

Space Jawa said:
So the question I've ultimately been focused on thus far is prior to selecting any specific perks, what will my personal dice chart look like?

Also, I'm not sure where the Ancient Tree information post is anymore.
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Ideally, after perks, you should have more effective power than you started with.
If that's not the case, I have something seriously wrong.
In your case, I could probably give you Ancient Commander Tree: Just like a Commander Tree except everything gets +1 die.

Sir Plusse said:
...Wait a minute, rereading the update, and I just realized it's possible that the Dire Bat we can capture/tame might be one of the poisonous ones. If so, that'd be a lot more valuable to us than just a bog-standard Dire Bat (though I'm interested in it either way).

@Robinton Can I get a confirmation on the status of the deadlocked poisonous Dire Bat?
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Upon examination, the Poison-clawed Dire Bats do not naturally generate the Poison. It appears to have been manually applied immediately before the battle. They are slightly higher-quality work, however.

ConfusedPotato said:
Would a Mad Science Tree work? Something halfway in-between Unpredictable and Research? Aka. write-ins and research.
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Probably. I'll think about it in the morning. Please ask again if I forget about it!
 
Robinton said:
(Tame Dire Bat resources) Only in wintertime.


(Carnivorous Dire Bats) True.


Upon examination, the Poison-clawed Dire Bats do not naturally generate the Poison. It appears to have been manually applied immediately before the battle. They are slightly higher-quality work, however.
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Hmm... could we bypass the resource drain for a turn by killing some kind of prey animal?

And that poison thing is disappointing, but honestly not all that surprising. We do still have a sample of the poison, but since the Bats didn't generate it that's all we've got.
 
[X][Action] Connect to Local Wildlife (Psychic)-bears
[X][Pollen] Poisonous
[X][Monster] Dire Bat + 1 Lesser Wraith
 
Robinton said:
Ideally, after perks, you should have more effective power than you started with.
If that's not the case, I have something seriously wrong.
In your case, I could probably give you Ancient Commander Tree: Just like a Commander Tree except everything gets +1 die.
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Thing is that I'm in a bit of a unique and tricky situation where I had the misfortune of upgrading from Basic to Elder tree I think just a single turn before we discovered the idea of researching how to do movement and the movement research train started. Had I been one or two turns slower or movement come one or two turns earlier, I would have made movement my upgrade focus; achieving 'Ent' status has been my primary objective since then and why I've dedicated every non-combat action to Movement Research.

So as I stand, looking at the Ancient Tree rules and going by Phigment's assessment, then mechanically speaking I sit in a very weird space.

If I don't want to lose any dice levels, I have to dedicate all 3 trait points to Generalist. I get up to 4 in every category, but I lose out on Ent.

If I want Ent, I have to spend at least 1 Trait point to get basic Ent level, but then I drop down in two categories as everything goes to 3. Going beyond basic Ent level means I drop to 2 in everything, which is a 1 or 2 dice drop in everything except survival (which has largely been my 'dump stat' anyhow).

While movement bonus does help, it also means that I have to find a way to justify every action as a movement action in some way if I don't want to be at a dice deficit.

It also means that for the time being, picking any other trait option for fun 'spice' is also off the table entirely.
 
[X][Action] Store Resources Against Future Need
[X][Focus] Grow the Forest
[X][Focus] Improve Dangerous Terrain
[X][Moles] Widen the Cave Entrance (8 dice)
[X][Monster] Dire Bat + 1 Lesser Wraith

Now that war is some what over time to do more of a relaxed resources gathering..
 
Space Jawa said:
If I don't want to lose any dice levels, I have to dedicate all 3 trait points to Generalist. I get up to 4 in every category, but I lose out on Ent.
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Conveniently enough, there's a suggestion box at the bottom of the Disadvantages section. Right here:
Robinton said:
Suggestions are fine!
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I don't remember the specifics of your Tree, but judging by your space on the Player Tree Listing, you've sacrificed your Survival dice for Comms and Offense dice. Which, if I write this out correctly...

Throwback: Grants +1 Trait point. You lose 1 die from two categories of action, and may take no actions from a third. You choose these now, and cannot change them later.

I dunno. That might not be enough of a drawback on its own, I can't speak for the QM. Still, this feels like a solvable problem.
 
[X][Tree] Mind Tree
[X][Action] Analyze Mundane Movement (Biology Research) (Movement Research)
[X][Focus] Clean the Lake
[X][Focus] Improve Dangerous Terrain
[X][Focus] Stockpile Thorns
[X][Focus] Ice/Fire and Fire Within

Time to be a tree
 
[X][Action] Broadcast the 'Fire Within' across the village for the entire 'turn', and observe how it interacts with the residents of Newton Village, livestock included. With permission from Materson et. al.
[X][Focus] Clever Corvids
[X][Focus] Clean the Lake
[X][Focus] Grow Unusual Lumber Tree
[X][Focus] Light/Darkness Negacion (Magic Research)

[X][Squirell] Have Arthur Scrat teach Life magic to the other animals. Such a fantastic insight MUST be shared!

[X][Pollen] Grenades

[X][AutoFocus] Monster Tamer Focus
-[X] Assign 2 Focus to taking permanent control of whatever monsters we keep from battle until all are tamed.

I like this option, also:

[] To Newton Village: Hi. Don't usually talk. Figured I should explain. Seems there's an enemy. We don't know who or what they are. Just know they want us dead. As in, us the Forest...but I guess that means you all too. I'd like to apologize for all of this, and all the future conflicts you'll probably be forced into because of this. We're working on finding the enemy.
 
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Box Lunch said:
Conveniently enough, there's a suggestion box at the bottom of the Disadvantages section. Right here:
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Box Lunch said:
I don't remember the specifics of your Tree, but judging by your space on the Player Tree Listing, you've sacrificed your Survival dice for Comms and Offense dice. Which, if I write this out correctly...

Throwback: Grants +1 Trait point. You lose 1 die from two categories of action, and may take no actions from a third. You choose these now, and cannot change them later.

I dunno. That might not be enough of a drawback on its own, I can't speak for the QM. Still, this feels like a solvable problem.
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Not really keen on having to take a drawback to even reach a certain basic level, and I certainly don't want to up and permanently surrender an action category entirely.
 
Holy hell, Arthur Scrat killing Ocumort was unbelievably badass. Can we build a monument for him or something?

[X][Action] "Befriend" (Contain) the Wraith (Communication?)

[X][Focus] Clever Corvids
[X][Focus] Clean the Lake
[X][Focus] Light/Darkness Negacion (Magic Research)

[X][Squirrel] Have Arthur Scrat teach Life magic to the other animals. Such a fantastic insight MUST be shared!
[X][Moles] Dig holes to better aerate the mycellium farms
[X][Beavers] Sponge poison from the lake using wood pulp
[X][Ants] Hide spies inside of the traders' cart before they leave

[X][Pollen] Grenades
[X][Monster] Dire Bat + 1 Lesser Wraith
I would like us to have more minions friends, also having a pet bat would mean we finally have the last member of the living flying animals triad of bug-bird-bat, unless dragon and/or pterosaurs still exist? In which case, we need to get them too.
 
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Space Jawa said:
Not really keen on having to take a drawback to even reach a certain basic level, and I certainly don't want to up and permanently surrender an action category entirely.
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You did that seven months ago, though. You already intentionally dump-statted Survival, to get extra dice on Communication and Offense relative to a basic Eldest Tree. You had a whole conversation about it with Robinton.

So, at this point, it's hard for you to build your existing tree on the Ancient Tree system, specifically because your existing tree is a oddball on the bleeding edge of the power curve. And you got that by taking a disadvantage of "zero dice on survival actions".

Which means we keep running into a wall when you say you don't want to take a drawback to reach a certain basic level, because you're currently OVER that basic level, and you did it by taking a drawback.

If you want to rebuild your tree with no limitations, this is the perfect time to do that. Get your survival dice back, be better at most things.
If you want to rebuild your tree as an Ent, with strong investment in moving, this is again the perfect time to do that. You probably sacrifice a die in some spots, but you get that sweet movement bonus you wanted more anyhow.
If you want to rebuild your tree as exactly what you have now, but better, you just need a drawback on it to reflect your current drawback status of having zero survival dice. I suggest something like "MIN/MEAN: 0 points: Give up two dice in one category to gain + 1 die in three other categories. Those three must not be your strongest categories." Then, you have an extra point to get better stats or better movement or whatever.

If you want to be exactly like you are now, except without your current limitations, AND with more power, well, you don't have enough points for that, so you need to either take a drawback for more power, or plan long-term.
 
Phigment said:
You did that seven months ago, though. You already intentionally dump-statted Survival, to get extra dice on Communication and Offense relative to a basic Eldest Tree. You had a whole conversation about it with Robinton.
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There is a very distinct difference between taking 0 dice in a category and saying "you can not take any actions in this category", especially when being an Ent means that even categories with 0 base die are still viable by using a movement-based action.
 
Space Jawa said:
Not really keen on having to take a drawback to even reach a certain basic level, and I certainly don't want to up and permanently surrender an action category entirely.
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Phigment's right, y'know: You did, in fact, already take a disadvantage that prevents you from performing a specific type of action for the sake of becoming better at everything else. Not saying you can't- or shouldn't- undo that; it's your build, so what you should do is your choice.

That said, there's more to Disadvantages than dumping stats. For example, you are eligible for the Limited disadvantage, which prevents you from going over 7 dice in anything. That'd let you buy 3 levels of Generalist to get your stats up, plus 1 rank of Moving Tree, since you seem so interested in it. Or there's Easily Bored, which prevents you from performing the same action category consecutively, if you don't want the stat cap but still want a disadvantage to buy Moving Tree. Or, again, you can do a write-in disadvantage, such as Stir-Crazy (must take a Movement action every so often).
 
Space Jawa said:
There is a very distinct difference between taking 0 dice in a category and saying "you can not take any actions in this category", especially when being an Ent means that even categories with 0 base die are still viable by using a movement-based action.
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Sure. So, make sure when you propose your build that you go with reduced dice, not a blanket inability to use the category.
 
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