Towards the Future

The plan is literally called Cynical Starfleet, and I want them in space so that they can murder the first aliens who show up and steal their FTL drives. That wasn't a joke, I think it's our best way to actually escape the home system.
If by best way you mean: Start a war against a opponent so far ahead technologically they can break the known laws of physics, than sure. Provoking a war against an opponent while they have option of moving faster than any weapon system you could conceptually build is certainly an unexpected strategy. You would have a better chance of winning the opium wars as the Qing against a British-French alliance.
Weapon technology is fundamentally based around ways to generate energy. For a long time, we were limited solely to human muscle. Only comparatively recently ago we discovered the chemical reaction of gun powder, leading to an age of gun based weaponry. Than came the atom bomb based on nuclear fission, a weapon so devastating that it made super power wars impossible. In the future, advanced energy production and storage will likely lead to an age dominated by lasers and rail guns. What you are proposing is to attack a species with the ability and energy to accelerate things faster than light, without having breached the same technological barrier. A species with the ability to teleport relativistic kill missiles in the orbit of our planet, before we understand how that movement is even possible.
Idk where you got the idea that I think they're going to turn into hippies, I just want them spending money on things that aren't supersonic fighter jets that will never be used on anybody.
I was being derisive towards Simon's idea of changing the military ethos by giving them emergency services, not towards you.
 
Even if we're somehow not utterly teched out by the aliens, because we started the game with thermonuclear war and then had Dr Warcrimes run our """agriculture""" ministry we have a tiny population compared to most potential rivals. We're not winning a prolonged war. And we took "aggression" as a cultural trauma. Fun.
 
God luck trying to establish a civilian spy apparatus for controlling the military without getting couped immediately. This would only work in a situation where the military is willing to submit to civilian control, thus making the reason for it's existence void.
You're black-white fallacy-ing.

We don't need "spies to control the military" to get a basic clue of what the major factional alignments within the military are, for instance. And I very much doubt that any but the most paranoid and anti-democratic military factions would consider it suspicious if we tried to learn what the factions are.
 
You're black-white fallacy-ing.

We don't need "spies to control the military" to get a basic clue of what the major factional alignments within the military are, for instance. And I very much doubt that any but the most paranoid and anti-democratic military factions would consider it suspicious if we tried to learn what the factions are.
What you have been suggesting as a solution is for the civilian government to investigate the political leanings of members of the armed forces via operatives. Unless you're planning on getting random party member to ask for interviews with officers, some matter of espionage would be involved there.
Trying to learn what the factions are is fine by itself (we could ask the BFP for an overlook), the problem comes from a government trying to do anything with that information without risking a coup. Because remember, the military is the guardian of the constitution against parliamentary extremism, so by extension an effort to create an officer corps that supports the ruling party is the ruling party attacking a constitutional safeguard.
So, supposing you had information about the military increasingly being dominated by authoritarian sentiment, what could you do about that? Not much outside of asking aligned military factions to perform an internal purge, which may or may be done and may or may not be effective. I'm not very comforted by an ability to predict doom if you we don't actually have the ability to do anything about it.
 
I feel like you're over-interpreting things a bit- imagining some things that can happen while blocking consideration of others, and then missing out on paths that would logically be open and saying "well, in that case we'd be doomed."

First of all, the military isn't like to be some kind of super-secretive cabal. Finding out what people think and say to each other about politics is often just a matter of reading what they publish in known publications, paying attention to who's attending what parties, and so on. A lot of things will be matters of public record. This can also tend to loosely track which factions are doing well and gaining influence. When this is difficult we call it by names like 'Kremlinology,' but Kremlinology was historically difficult because it was being done by people outside of a very secretive system that was, by design, closed to them. The military isn't that kind of closed book to our government, I would expect.

Second, a lot of political channels can potentially open up for you when you know what the factions you're dealing with are. There can be all sorts of ways to subtly sway key influencers to like you better, or to create situations that one faction or another can passively benefit from. It very much doesn't have to be adversarial, and it very much doesn't have to be something the military would actually oppose or resist on the grounds that "oh well, they see themselves as constitutional safeguards so they must stand aloof from the government!"

There's a lot you can do to influence a political movement, as long as you have power and aren't in a deliberately hostile relationship with that movement. And if the army saw itself as needing to be isolated from us for whatever reason, then there wouldn't be a sizeable militarist party throwing its weight around and backing up our coalition government, now would there?
 
I feel like you're over-interpreting things a bit- imagining some things that can happen while blocking consideration of others, and then missing out on paths that would logically be open and saying "well, in that case we'd be doomed."
I'm pointing to a dangerous scenario - there is no certainty that the military will actually have a clique of authoritarian officers take power, with plans to subjugate parliament. But this could happen, depending on how bad our luck is. The issue is that we operate in a system that has a formalized framework for such a self-coup, granting an explicit right for the military to coup the government. The possibility of such a coup is a problem to be addressed, and I'm pointing to the fact that we lack protection against the worst-case scenario. We can try to steer against it, but our means of influence largely depend on the military agreeing to protect us against a coup.
First of all, the military isn't like to be some kind of super-secretive cabal. Finding out what people think and say to each other about politics is often just a matter of reading what they publish in known publications, paying attention to who's attending what parties, and so on. A lot of things will be matters of public record.
Sure, but such things don't give us any certain way to know their political opinions. While some people are open and very vocal about their views, some people can be apolitical or quiet before entering the upper ranks of power, and some people lie about their political beliefs in an effort to escape scrutiny from their organization and the public, especially if those beliefs are controversial. Some people change views over time, making a luke-warm democrat into a potential danger. There is no certainty our public-information based assessment will necessarily inform us of actual threats inside the military.
Second, a lot of political channels can potentially open up for you when you know what the factions you're dealing with are. There can be all sorts of ways to subtly sway key influencers to like you better, or to create situations that one faction or another can passively benefit from.
I'm not denying te have means of influence towards the military. The problem is that those means depend on the military cooperating with us, which will only happen if the military leadership is willing to cooperate with us against groups that would threaten us. The hiring and firing of officers depends on the internal decisions of the military, which are beyond our control. The military is young and progressive currently, but that can change over time in a way that is beyond our control, similar to ideological shifts in opposition parties.
There's a lot you can do to influence a political movement, as long as you have power and aren't in a deliberately hostile relationship with that movement. And if the army saw itself as needing to be isolated from us for whatever reason, then there wouldn't be a sizeable militarist party throwing its weight around and backing up our coalition government, now would there?
I agree that the leading faction in the army is supportive of us, currently. The BFP itself isn't the issue, the system giving the military the legal right to coup based on what they deem constitutional is. In the same way as an individual monarch might be fine, but the royal right to veto laws or dissolve parliament at the will is an issue. The army leadership will change over time, and the progressive leadership might simply fail to cement pro-democratic dominance inside the armed forces leading to a future problem.
 
Whatever. Just whatever.

I get the feeling that this argument would turn into one of those bizarre ones where after two or three days of exhausting miserable bickering it ends up reducing to the other person saying "I'm not actually saying X, I'm just saying there's a 15% likelihood of X and we should at least vaguely consider X as a possibility." Or something like that.

I don't have the stamina to go on with it.
 
Vote Called for:

[X]Plan Cynical Starfleet
-[X]Governmental Decisions
--[X]Start Hardening 95
--[X]Give it to the Army 67
--[X]Default Membership 79
--[X]Take a Hard Line 20
-[X]Space Policy
--[X]Reactor Core Fabrication Facilities 92
--[X]Control Systems Salvaging 7
--[X]Start Launch Ramp Reconstruction (Stage 1) 16
--[X]New Communication Networks 27
--[X]Start Crew Rotation Programs 68
-[X]Governmental Actions
--[]Degalchobarification (DC 95) 98
--[X]Employee Protections (DC 60 10) 31
--[X]Work Safety Institutions (Autopass) (Not Rolled)
--[X]Updates to Building Codes (DC 65 15) 53
--[]Equality Amendment (DC 90) 76
--[]Land to the Tillers (DC 40) 48
--[X]Lower Council Reforms (DC 70 20) 13
--[]Investigation into the Ros Government (DC 60) 29

Rolling
Blackstar threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Dice Total: 653
95 95 67 67 79 79 20 20 92 92 7 7 16 16 27 27 68 68 98 98 31 31 53 53
Blackstar threw 4 100-faced dice. Reason: Dice Total: 166
76 76 48 48 13 13 29 29
Blackstar threw 10 100-faced dice. Reason: Internal Dice Total: 499
4 4 94 94 99 99 35 35 42 42 39 39 87 87 8 8 90 90 1 1
Blackstar threw 4 100-faced dice. Reason: Event Dice Total: 254
59 59 82 82 61 61 52 52
 
Last edited:
Welp we're taking time to shit on Colonel Nukem whether or not we want to. Are crits a think for government actions? 98 is within our expanded crit range. And land to the tillers passed this time, without us directly supporting it.
 
Degalchobarification (DC 95)

Do I correctly read that the result here is 98? Sounds a bit dangerous, ehehehe, hehehe, hehehe
edit yeah it totally is, prepare to The Glorious Licking

Land to Tillers seem to pass too? Yay if so

I reeeally don't like the combination of degalchobarification with low score on Take a Hard Line, feels like a synergy
 
Last edited:
I think Degalchobarification is going to be fine as while putting Galchobar on trial seems questionable that seems not to be the focus
Current efforts will focus on correctly describing his role in history and textbooks, starting the demolition of his little cult's public image
This is incredibly tedious and hard effort for little reward which was why i was against it but if the army or whoever got this through wants to spend their time creating a crusade to try and dismantle Galchobars cult of personality i wish them luck because that sounds like a nightmare.
 
Degalchobarification (DC 95)

Do I correctly read that the result here is 98? Sounds a bit dangerous, ehehehe, hehehe, hehehe
edit yeah it totally is, prepare to The Glorious Licking
I reeeally don't like the combination of degalchobarification with low score on Take a Hard Line, feels like a synergy
I have to stress that Degalchaboarification passed without the involvement of party leadership, and is also a critical success thanks to our government flexibility (crit range 1-5, 96-100). I would guess the army decided to position itself against Gal and use him as a scapegoat for any excesses coming up in future investigations, in a hope of keeping their image somewhat clean. They would have a decent shot at that, especially considering the army couped him a couple years into his government.
Hard Line rolling low probably just means the BFP insists on some extra concessions, they aren't going to collapse the government over extremely ordinary fighting over spending priority.

With Gal being done, I think now is a good time for some follow-up investigations into Ròs and her involvement. Gal himself has been discredited in the public eye, Ròs was quite connected to him, and the investigations will take some time to find the strong stuff against her.
 
I have to stress that Degalchaboarification passed without the involvement of party leadership, and is also a critical success thanks to our government flexibility (crit range 1-5, 96-100).

Do we have the crit successes/failures on the Government actions? I was under impression that we do not. At least, there wasn't apparent crit failure on Land to Tillers last turn.

And while this was definitely passed without Uistein and PDL leadership, the WP parliament members could be definitely involved (they were when the police role defining was passed without leadership last turn)
 
Do we have the crit successes/failures on the Government actions? I was under impression that we do not. At least, there wasn't apparent crit failure on Land to Tillers last turn.

And while this was definitely passed without Uistein and PDL leadership, the WP parliament members could be definitely involved (they were when the police role defining was passed without leadership last turn)
On second thought, I'm not entirely sure. We didn't have a crit so far, but I don't see why outside legislative actions wouldn't have critical successes and failures though as they are pretty directly connected to "the first real democracy". And while we didn't read about the critical failure on land to the tiller last turn, that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't have an effect on the parties involved. We don't read about legislative failures outside of legislation we try to pass in our updates, due every legislation rolling independently and most of them failing.

While the WP is likely involved, my point is that we can't be held responsible for actions we weren't involved in.
 
While the WP is likely involved, my point is that we can't be held responsible for actions we weren't involved in.

Oh we totally can. We shouldn't be logically, but people constantly have their leadership responsible for various things, and "not disciplining your coalition partners" - "you're LeAdErS goddamit, why did you touch Galchobar, why did you not tell your goons not to touch him?!" is something that can land on the Uistein's table eheheh
 
Oh we totally can. We shouldn't be logically, but people constantly have their leadership responsible for various things, and "not disciplining your coalition partners" - "you're LeAdErS goddamit, why did you touch Galchobar, why did you not tell your goons not to touch him?!" is something that can land on the Uistein's table eheheh
Possibly, but in this specific instance any bill that passed would need to be done quite well (Dc 95). There is no reason to actually block it, showing the need for the bill makers to be appease the BFP. The outside action is locked behind a near crit-success. So any bad bill would have been simply shot down by the BFP and not blamed on us, while a good bill wouldn't be something to be blamed for. Anyways, I do hope this strengthens public support against authoritarianism somewhat, hopefully opening up venues of further strengthen democratic sentiment in the civil society.
 
I have to stress that Degalchaboarification passed without the involvement of party leadership, and is also a critical success thanks to our government flexibility (crit range 1-5, 96-100). I would guess the army decided to position itself against Gal and use him as a scapegoat for any excesses coming up in future investigations, in a hope of keeping their image somewhat clean. They would have a decent shot at that, especially considering the army couped him a couple years into his government.
legislation don't have crits it is either pass or not pass nothing more
 
Galchobar is not going on trial it would just raise up all kinds of skeletons and make him a martyr for some equally insane people to use in the future, just let him slowly rot away in his house prison.
 
Galchobar isn't going on trial in this, the first round of de-Galchobarification.

But our space elves are very long-lived. Who can say whether Galchobar will be able to avoid trial indefinitely?
 
[]Degalchobarification: Galchobar and the ideological basis behind authoritarian methods of rule and the killing of so many people needs to be called out for what it is. Putting the bastard on trial is questionable but it needs to be done to move past any temptation for the army to coup the civilian government. Current efforts will focus on correctly describing his role in history and textbooks, starting the demolition of his little cult's public image. (DC 95)

Im pretty sure he is being put on trial, Uistein just knows that it will galvanise the far-right. Not that it matters what he thinks since we didnt involve ourselves in it directly. The real question is what exactly he is being put on trial for. All his actions in the army pre-exchange is almost definitely a no-go, for example, unless you want to spook the whole army.
 
Last edited:
Galchobar isn't going on trial in this, the first round of de-Galchobarification.

But our space elves are very long-lived. Who can say whether Galchobar will be able to avoid trial indefinitely?
Maybe still think that any sentences like to death or impressment in a maximum danger prison would just make fuel for some crazies to use, feel the Napoleon treatment is the best way to handle gal.
 
Note On System Change
So as a bit of a note, since this quest significantly got away from me in terms of what I wanted to write/what I wanted out of it. I am going to start a bit of a reformatting and continue it in a different format. Now that you are largely out of the immediate instability of the nuclear war, things will shift towards a five year time-skip turn for twenty five years, with you selecting economic priorities in the broad sense along with what governments have been formed. Afterwards, I'll continue the quest in a new thread to primarily write well, speculative scifi more then moderately fucked up democratic coalition politics, though with some moderately fucked up politics for the flavoring of the general development of off planet matters. Effectively you'd be playing as a mixture of orbital development and colonization of the solar system while the government on Danaan focuses on local development, effectively you'd be the army in its current form and have a broad degree of choice what you allocate funding to.

I'm sorry to be making this announcement but I initially expected myself to go through turns at the same rate as early on in my other quest despite having health issues, and I am sorry for not being able to clear the well "prologue" anywhere near as efficiently as expected.
 
Back
Top