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Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)

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Daemion said:
It's worse than that. Only three teams can get the necessary scrolls to enter the tower. That right there is the upper limit of who can advance to the finals (if there are any) already. Even if you take their scrolls, the cut off is at three teams no matter what.
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Only three teams can get their scrolls without fighting, because those three teams obtained all nine token types, so they received three delivery scrolls. Other teams received one or two delivery scrolls, for a total that far exceeds the number of offence, defense, and stealth scrolls available. It's entirely possible for a full third of the entrants to pass. Unlikely, but possible.

Although Naruto is documenting everything, so the performance of each team can be evaluated properly. Maybe some will rank up even though they didn't make it to the end.
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That really does sound much more fair than the traditional exams. This way requires much more manpower, though, which would be why it takes Naruto levels of insanity to consider it.
 
Aineko said:
Where do you get that?
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ShuTheDragon said:
I don't know where you got that idea... I am pretty sure there were more than 12 teams in the room.
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Splattered Cloak said:
Only three teams can get their scrolls without fighting, because those three teams obtained all nine token types, so they received three delivery scrolls. Other teams received one or two delivery scrolls, for a total that far exceeds the number of offence, defense, and stealth scrolls available. It's entirely possible for a full third of the entrants to pass. Unlikely, but possible.
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Hmmm... yeah, you're right. My interpretation of the rules was incorrect. I thought the dispensers wouldn't even give you the 3rd type of scroll unless you had three delivery scrolls but that was my error.

Interestingly enough, no exact number of participants is given (unless I missed that, too), only that only 75% got past the pre test and that all of those teams made it into the Forest of Death. Could be 12 teams, could be 20...

What we do know is that there are twice as many delivery scrolls than final scrolls in play now.

Let's play with the numbers a little and start with 20 teams. I'd expect at minimum two or three teams for each major village plus one team for each minor village. Minus 25% failing the illusion test.

Three teams have three scrolls, some teams will only have one and most will have two. (I'm being generous here). So two scrolls per average, giving us ~40 delivery scrolls.

That means there are about 20 final scrolls within the forest, giving us a maximum of 6 teams that could advance.

It's probably going to be fewer though. Some scrolls might get destroyed (or opened), thus rendering them useless. We don't know if there's an even distribution of final scrolls although making one kind rare would be cruel.
 
I generally liked the idea, though I think it puts a bit much of a burden on (a) the normal operation of the village as a whole, and (b) keeping foreign genin and sensei from espionage.

The normal exams just require you to keep the foreign genin and jounin to permitted areas. This seems like it would require that every one of them be followed at all times, which is uh... I guess possible with ridiculously OP numbers of shadow clones?
(e.g. you'd need to keep the jounin-sensei and other visitors from telling the genin about the challenges they've observed, so you'd need pretty around-the-clock surveillance)
 
Darth Bayes said:
I generally liked the idea, though I think it puts a bit much of a burden on (a) the normal operation of the village as a whole, and (b) keeping foreign genin and sensei from espionage.

The normal exams just require you to keep the foreign genin and jounin to permitted areas. This seems like it would require that every one of them be followed at all times, which is uh... I guess possible with ridiculously OP numbers of shadow clones?
(e.g. you'd need to keep the jounin-sensei and other visitors from telling the genin about the challenges they've observed, so you'd need pretty around-the-clock surveillance)
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Bah, you don't really have security if your security relies on nobody getting across your outer perimeter. At least here you know who is running around, any actual infiltration you wouldn't know until you caught them.

I would say Naruto thinks this, but Naruto doesn't even bother to think this because it's so far below his threshold of recognition.
 
rdmcmains said:
I see what you did there, and I bet @TheBeardedOne does as well.

It's a lot like bureaucracy, but it focuses on the paperwork ('biro' being the British term for a ballpoint pen).
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Biro is only British for ball-point pen the way Xerox is American for copy machine, or Kleenex is the word for facial tissue, or even Google is the word for search engine. It is the most common/popular brand to the point it entered general lexicon.
 
Daemion said:
Compared to canon chunin exams Naruto's standards are way too high. Everyone who makes it through this gauntlet should get a note in their file that fast tracks them for jonin.

Funny, but evil. ^^
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Unlike the canon test, this one requires demonstrating that teams aren't tied to a single trick, proving they're more well-rounded as a group. Individual skills can shine more to accomplish parts of the mission and you don't have a single-skill bottleneck right at the start.

...of course, what's been seen so far is just the first portion of the stage. Everyone just dove into the forest. Which is still part of the same stage. This is an important detail for what they're going to run into there... :V
Daemion said:
Interestingly enough, no exact number of participants is given (unless I missed that, too), only that only 75% got past the pre test and that all of those teams made it into the Forest of Death. Could be 12 teams, could be 20...

What we do know is that there are twice as many delivery scrolls than final scrolls in play now.

Let's play with the numbers a little and start with 20 teams. I'd expect at minimum two or three teams for each major village plus one team for each minor village. Minus 25% failing the illusion test.

Three teams have three scrolls, some teams will only have one and most will have two. (I'm being generous here). So two scrolls per average, giving us ~40 delivery scrolls.

That means there are about 20 final scrolls within the forest, giving us a maximum of 6 teams that could advance.

It's probably going to be fewer though. Some scrolls might get destroyed (or opened), thus rendering them useless. We don't know if there's an even distribution of final scrolls although making one kind rare would be cruel.
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For one, my notes have 71 teams officially signed up. Two hundred and thirteen genin. They needed to eliminate a lot of them. Luckily their method has a sizable default failure rate. Around a quarter of teams didn't find the exams, then only around a third of those that did make it through have a hope of getting through the first stage if every set of three scrolls gets used.

For two, there were equal numbers of the three necessary scroll types left in the forest when Naruto collected the extras to destroy in front of the prospective chunin.
rdmcmains said:
I see what you did there, and I bet @TheBeardedOne does as well.
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...directly referenced a canon character?
 
CmptrWz said:
"Hmmm. Today I think I want to know what Kushina Uzumaki's favorite ramen dish was."
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Huh. Was expecting Ibiki to do something like have them burn 2 waivers in front of him in exchange for one of his.

Watch the panic and fear. Watch them draw up their own waivers to burn. etc.

Also surprised noone seems to have tried making forgeries of the waivers once they have at least 1.
 
MaimakteriAnn said:
Also surprised noone seems to have tried making forgeries of the waivers once they have at least 1.
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I would think that's a no-go right from the start. While a Jonin level infiltration expert might be able to do so the odds of your average chunin exam candidate being able to do so is likely nil. The reason being that it's far, far, far too obvious a trick to pull for Naruto and Co to not have forseen and dealt with. Special paper, special ink etc along with typed writing means you'd require either far more resources than available in the field or some pretty specialized seals that a regular chunin candidate doesn't have a hope in hell of getting a look at, let alone using.
 
MaimakteriAnn said:
Also surprised noone seems to have tried making forgeries of the waivers once they have at least 1.
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As the guard on the Forest Gate said, they have security seals to confirm it's a genuine waiver and to confirm the issuing stamp is legitimate.
e: as @Forger1985 said, the odds of them having the skills, equipment, and time to reverse engineer that is basically zero. Especially if one of the basic protections is a unique non sequential ID code for each issued legitimate waiver with a corresponding ledger of which stations had which forms, since that's something you would not be able to determine from first principles given only one example.
 
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MaimakteriAnn said:
Huh. Was expecting Ibiki to do something like have them burn 2 waivers in front of him in exchange for one of his.

Watch the panic and fear. Watch them draw up their own waivers to burn. etc.

Also surprised noone seems to have tried making forgeries of the waivers once they have at least 1.
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There were "security markings" that might well have made that impossible...but I agree that it's surprising for no one to have tried.

Unless of course everybody's Genin are just magic soldiers rather than having any actual infiltration skills.
 
Aineko said:
Unless of course everybody's Genin are just magic soldiers rather than having any actual infiltration skills.
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AFAIK Naruto is basically the exception that proves the rule. Kids will generally be kids, Ninja family or no Ninja family and Kids see all the big, flashy, cool looking stuff and go "I wanna learn that!" Most of the infiltration stuff is far too sneaky and subtle for most kids and teenagers to understand why it's important unless you get to them early and show them what you can do with all that sneaky, subtle stuff (namely prank your enemies into submission). Unfortunately for the elemental nations only Konoha has (and very recently at that) figured this out mainly thanks to Naruto's influence :D
 
Daemion said:
It's worse than that. Only three teams can get the necessary scrolls to enter the tower. That right there is the upper limit of who can advance to the finals (if there are any) already. Even if you take their scrolls, the cut off is at three teams no matter what.
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Au contraire mon ami, while only three teams have enough tokens to collect all three scrolls straight from the dispensers, if a team entered the Forest with 6 tokens and successfully traded them for attack and defense scrolls, all they'd then need to do is steal a stealth scroll from someone else.
 
You know, this test makes much more sense as an information gathering test than the canon one.

And it also tests how versatile and well-rounded a team is with the token tests.

Overall, I like it.
 
Forger1985 said:
I would think that's a no-go right from the start. While a Jonin level infiltration expert might be able to do so the odds of your average chunin exam candidate being able to do so is likely nil.
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Aineko said:
There were "security markings" that might well have made that impossible...
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I think that those makings would have been intentionally easy enough for a chunin to believably copy, just another "look underneath the underneath" test.
 
Caiuz said:
I think that those makings would have been intentionally easy enough for a chunin to believably copy, just another "look underneath the underneath" test.
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On reflection you do have a point as I suppose the test does technically have to be easy enough for them to have a reasonable chance of passing but on the other hand we have Naruto in charge of setting things up and his ideas of "easy" are rather skewed.
 
Naruto was slightly less evil than I would have been, I would have burned the delivery scrolls down to 1/3 of the teams passing and only had enough of the Attack, Defense and Stealth scrolls for about 7 teams to pass at the end as an upper limit.
 
Forger1985 said:
On reflection you do have a point as I suppose the test does technically have to be easy enough for them to have a reasonable chance of passing but on the other hand we have Naruto in charge of setting things up and his ideas of "easy" are rather skewed.
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Naruto: "It's fairly simple. You just need 100 paperwork clones to practice the markings while another 50 find the ingredients to make the invisible ink, all without being caught."

Hinata: "You do realize that your average genin is lucky if one paperwork clone doesn't kill them, right?
 
Daemion said:
Compared to canon chunin exams Naruto's standards are way too high. Everyone who makes it through this gauntlet should get a note in their file that fast tracks them for jonin.

Funny, but evil. ^^
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If nothing else, when the teams get back to their home villages the word about this exam will pretty much convince them that Konoha's shinobi have really stepped up their game in the last few years. Yet another indication that the secret Whirlpool Uzumaki village has been sharing techniques with the only remaining members of the clan outside their boundaries. 🦊

CmptrWz said:
.of course, what's been seen so far is just the first portion of the stage. Everyone just dove into the forest. Which is still part of the same stage. This is an important detail for what they're going to run into there
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True. After all, Naruto did make a general repair and upgrade pass through the Forest while repairing the central arena facility in the Forest. That pretty much guarantees that even teams who have experienced the Forest in previous exam runs are going to be foxed this time. (And unless their team leaders were aware of his work and shared that knowledge with their squads, they won't know to expect the usual Uzumaki quirks inside the testing grounds.)

Caiuz said:
I think that those makings would have been intentionally easy enough for a chunin to believably copy, just another "look underneath the underneath" test.
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That presumes that any chunin hopefuls have gotten enough training to even attempt forging documents. After all, it's not exactly the sort of mission that usually gets assigned to anyone below the jounin ranking. (That it's become an accepted academy class for Konoha's cadets now hasn't gotten widely known outside the village before now.)
 
Of course, the real issue is that despite being taught rudimentary stealth in the academy, ninja are primarily chi mage assault troops. It got implied that they are typically not even considered for infiltration work until at least chunin, probably jounin. And that's only if they demonstrated an aptitude for such work. Which is why the experiment that started with Naruto, Hinata, and Tenten skews things so badly. For the first time in the recorded history of the village infiltrators have proper support, and are being taught from the get go how to infiltrate. And now academy students are getting said training too, because Naruto and Hinata have demonstrated just how good an infiltrator can be if they get started while still in the academy.

That said, I doubt that even hidden jounin could forge the security seals on the wavers. This is Naruto "if it can't stop slow down me it's not security" Uzumaki after all, after all.
 
CmptrWz said:
For two, there were equal numbers of the three necessary scroll types left in the forest when Naruto collected the extras to destroy in front of the prospective chunin.
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Out of curiosity, did he do that in front of them on the off chance that some of the examinees took the opportunity to covertly snatch some of the scrolls?
 
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