Through the Ages (Exalted CK2 Style Empire Builder)

[Pipeman]

Wasn't it mentioned that Sidereals would join the Realm legions if it came to it next Chapter?
And again... Rakan is negotiating with other gods, why couldn't we set up something here as well?

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Why does him bribing some currently disenfranchized gods to help him with his planned conquest of Heaven make it seem to you as if:
a) He can automatically bribe all of our divine allies to do the same?
b) His end result will actually be any less corrupt than the current system?
The fact that his backstory motivation may in fact also just be that his loved one chose someone else and he decided to lash out doesn't really help his case either.


I'm glad we didn't fail anything, but those rolls are seriously frustrating.
Pissing away 3000 Obols for something that will only start to pay off in 15 turns does not seem like a very solid investment when entire Chapters only seem to last ~7 turns.
Damn dice.

 

[Alectai]

And know I'm sad. I was hoping if we made it through Chapter 4 we would have caught the attention of one of the few remaining Gold Sidereals who would then decide to help us. But now that dream's ruined thanks to 3rd edition.

Why 3rd edition, WHY!?!?! I was looking forward to us getting Sidereal help too and now it's impossible thanks to 3rd edition deciding to saying "There is no gold faction".

I'm angry, because now we've lost the only useful people in heaven on our side that isn't the three gods we are friends of. I mean we could had have one be our piety advisor or something but thanks to that retcon we don't have any chance of getting any sidereal on our side.

Excuse me, I'm going to be ranting at the world now.

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I never said the Gold Faction couldn't ever happen. Again, it's a Protest against the endless compromise that they've been indulging in that hasn't been working. They just never really had a viable alternative until the Solars showed up en masse.

Guess what happens if you survive Chapter 4?

 

[Krain]

Yeah, that didn't really give anything worthwhile economically.
Is t ehre a chance for some very, very, VERY cheap expansion on that, Alectai?

 

[SlyOverlord]

A few near misses, but not failures. Other than the mining roll which sucked.

Now what to do about someone who has killed a few Lunar and a Solar.

 

[veekie]

I'm not saying we should definitely refuse him or that our enemies aren't massive dicks about most things.

I'm saying that acting as if siding with the Getimians is us sticking it to the Man and standing together with other freedom fighters for the sake of Truth, Justice and the American Way seems kind of disingenuous when the situation is more accurately described as us working together with an extremely radical revolutionary because we are between a rock and a hard place.

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Basically:
Heaven - Society's backbone, the telcos, power plants, water and food supply, Everything relies on them doing their work.

Sidereals - The CIA, they arranged our removal in the past, and would prefer that we stay removed. They had burned the evidence of what they did last time, but it turns out we're not staying removed and this has their panties in a twist. If Heaven has actionable evidence they're fucked.

Getimians - Anarchist terrorists, they seek to blow up everything, and maybe put something else together afterwards.

Us - Political undesirables targeted by the CIA previously on their own initiative.

 

[Alectai]

The fact that his backstory motivation may in fact also just be that his loved one chose someone else and he decided to lash out doesn't really help his case either.
.

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Thulio is an incredibly capable person, and while he's most certainly furious beyond all sense and reason, he's also not the sort who would lay blame without reason.

Fate may be what "Must Be", and it may be that the big picture requires small scale suffering.

That doesn't mean that you're obligated to just take it up the ass, and Thulio's weakness and strength is that when his heart was broken by that which he devoted his life to supporting, instead of simply rationalizing it as "Such is life", he decided "No, there is absolutely no reason I'm willing to accept these platitudes. If Fate demands suffering, then I will shatter it with my own hands and put something kinder in it's place".

That doesn't, you know, mean that he's Right. And what may be a kinder future may lead to a terrible ending, as it is a truth of Fate that suffering breeds heroism--and a kinder, happier future may lead to one too weak to endure the trials of the future.

In short, my take on Thulio is that he's kung fu Lelouch taken up to 11. Just because his goals are sympathetic doesn't mean that they're either right, or that he's a good person.

 

[Daniella_c2]

I never said the Gold Faction couldn't ever happen. Again, it's a Protest against the endless compromise that they've been indulging in that hasn't been working. They just never really had a viable alternative until the Solars showed up en masse.

Guess what happens if you survive Chapter 4?

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Ohhhhhhh. Well that makes me feel a lot better. If we make it through chapter 4 one of the sidereals who's realized that what they are doing is going absolutly nowhere but really didn't have an alternative can see an Solar actually survive the Realm is going to possibly help us out as a way to tell the man so to speak "You guys are being stupid assholes".

A few near misses, but not failures. Other than the mining roll which sucked.

Now what to do about someone who has killed a few Lunar and a Solar.

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Yeah we need to do something about the guy who's literally killed lunars and a solar single handily. How does someone even pull that off? Arn't Celestial exalted have bullshit powers or has that been removed in 3rd edition?

 

[Alectai]

Ohhhhhhh. Well that makes me feel a lot better. If we make it through chapter 4 one of the sidereals who's realized that what they are doing is going absolutly nowhere but really didn't have an alternative can see an Solar actually survive the Realm is going to possibly help us out as a way to tell the man so to speak "You guys are being stupid assholes".


Yeah we need to do something about the guy who's literally killed lunars and a solar single handily. How does someone even pull that off? Arn't Celestial exalted have bullshit powers or has that been removed in 3rd edition?

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He's an Essence 5 Fire Aspect who has mastered three mighty Martial Arts styles, and is well on his way to perfecting a fourth.

That's not the kind of guy who's a scrub.

 

[veekie]

Ohhhhhhh. Well that makes me feel a lot better. If we make it through chapter 4 one of the sidereals who's realized that what they are doing is going absolutly nowhere but really didn't have an alternative can see an Solar actually survive the Realm is going to possibly help us out as a way to tell the man so to speak "You guys are being stupid assholes".

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Provided of course, that we don't sign up to destroy the world like their prophecy back in the First Age said.

We need to fight the Realm, but we need to fight it RIGHT. Dirty tricks are fine, risking the integrity of the universe, not so fine.

 

[Daniella_c2]

He's an Essence 5 Fire Aspect who has mastered three mighty Martial Arts styles, and is well on his way to perfecting a fourth.

That's not the kind of guy who's a scrub.

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Well yeah, that does make since why he'd be able to single handily kill Lunars and (a) Solar.

How old where the Lunars and Solar anyway that he killed?

 

[Pipeman]

And know I'm sad. I was hoping if we made it through Chapter 4 we would have caught the attention of one of the few remaining Gold Sidereals who would then decide to help us. But now that dream's ruined thanks to 3rd edition.

Why 3rd edition, WHY!?!?! I was looking forward to us getting Sidereal help too and now it's impossible thanks to 3rd edition deciding to saying "There is no gold faction".

I'm angry, because now we've lost the only useful people in heaven on our side that isn't the three gods we are friends of. I mean we could had have one be our piety advisor or something but thanks to that retcon we don't have any chance of getting any sidereal on our side.

Excuse me, I'm going to be ranting at the world now.

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We might still get some Siddie support after Chapter 4.
The main issue is that before we survive that Chapter, there's not even much reason for a hypothetical Gold Faction to support us.
A single Solar with low chances to survive the next few decades and whose only accomplishment is a middling sized kingdom at the ass-end of nowhere is not really worth supporting even if you do think the Ursupation was a horrible idea and things would be way better off with Solars around.

Even Solar sympathizers would have to admit that destabilizing a Realm that at the moment is actually doing fine and does not look like it'll collapse soon is not that good an idea, especially not when there are currently no massive threats you can point at and claim "Only a Solar can deal with this shit!" around.

If we survive Chapter 4 we'll be a a superpower capable of fending off the Realm and arguably the greatest force in the North.
We suddenly become important enough that even without a formalized Gold Faction around at the moment, those Siddies disenfranchized with the current system may decide that, if getting rid of us is apparently not really a very workable option, they may as well try not working directly against us for once.

And ninja'd.

 

[Alectai]

Well yeah, that does make since why he'd be able to single handily kill Lunars and (a) Solar.

How old where the Lunars and Solar anyway that he killed?

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Mostly Essence 2/3 range, one of his most legendary battles was against Claw-in-the-Eye, the Red Wolf, Warlord of the Dripping Maw Clan, an Essence 4 Lunar. That was a pretty close match.

Do note that in Third Edition, Essence 1 is what everyone starts with, Essence 2 is about 50 experience, and Essence 3 is about 150.

 

[staplesdex2]

He's an Essence 5 Fire Aspect who has mastered three mighty Martial Arts styles, and is well on his way to perfecting a fourth.

That's not the kind of guy who's a scrub.

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A question but were the Solars and Lunars he killed affected by the Great Curse at its peak? If so then I honestly can't blame him as he was more than justified.

 

[Daniella_c2]

Provided of course, that we don't sign up to destroy the world like their prophecy back in the First Age said.

We need to fight the Realm, but we need to fight it RIGHT. Dirty tricks are fine, risking the integrity of the universe, not so fine.

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Ok, so no dealing with the crazy fate destroying guys. Plus that'll probably would want the Sidereals to kill us even more.

 

[Alectai]

Ok, so no dealing with the crazy fate destroying guys. Plus that'll probably would want the Sidereals to kill us even more.

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There will be pros and cons either side. Do also note that you're not really "Siding" with one faction or another no matter what you do.

One Getiminian will show up, period. This does not mean Thulio is personally invested in your kingdom.

 

[Daniella_c2]

Mostly Essence 2/3 range, one of his most legendary battles was against Claw-in-the-Eye, the Red Wolf, Warlord of the Dripping Maw Clan, an Essence 4 Lunar. That was a pretty close match.

Do note that in Third Edition, Essence 1 is what everyone starts with, Essence 2 is about 50 experience, and Essence 3 is about 150.

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So what's our essence level anyway? Because I want to be able to tell just how badass our character is compare to most.

 

[Alectai]

So what's our essence level anyway? Because I want to be able to tell just how badass our character is compare to most.

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Altren is Essence 4.

 

[staplesdex2]

Altren is Essence 4.

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Anyway to increase the number of his Essence?

 

[Krain]

Ok, so no dealing with the crazy fate destroying guys. Plus that'll probably would want the Sidereals to kill us even more.

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They already do.
And Getimians aren't on team gleefully destroy the universe as Alectai said (this is assuming Sidereals would even notice which, I'll point out, they're not that good at even at the canon date which is a looong time from now - even CHEJOP can't spot Getimimians).

There will be pros and cons either side. Do also note that you're not really "Siding" with one faction or another no matter what you do.

One Getiminian will show up, period. This does not mean Thulio is personally invested in your kingdom.

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THANK you.

So we can still interact with the Getimian, hopefully work something out for a mutually-beneficial deal.

One advantage, I imagine, from getting Getimian aid would be a higher chance of winning the conflicts (since Sidereals will not help us unless we somehow miraculously survive chapter 4)

 

[Robotninja]

I never said the Gold Faction couldn't ever happen. Again, it's a Protest against the endless compromise that they've been indulging in that hasn't been working. They just never really had a viable alternative until the Solars showed up en masse.

Guess what happens if you survive Chapter 4?

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Pretty much.

A lot of Sidereals are going to take a look at our kingdom and go "Legendary demon kings? This guy has made the fringes of Creation some of the safest and happiest in the world. Exactly how is that risking the world dying?"

 

[Daniella_c2]

Altren is Essence 4.

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Ok.

Hey I heard that essence 6 was elder or something and I admit most of my Exalted knolledge is from this but I intend to start playing Exalted sometime soon but I know exalted characters can pull bullshit powers so what is an Elder compare to an normal exalted and at what level do you get to be an elder?

Also I pressume the higher the essence, the better the character. But is that assumption correct Alectai or am I just showing some newb tendencies in thinking essence of Exalted= character levels of DnD (which I am a player of).

 

[Robotninja]

Can we do yet more research into the Wyld Hunt heroes? I want very detailed info on them so that we know how to spoof them.

 

[Lucienz]

There will be a fairly heavy cost to getting Gemitans. Namely, the Bronze faction will be able to justify screwing with us as part of their actual jobs instead of their hobby.

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I'll be honest I'm very very wary of the Gemitans. Unless it's been changed by 3rd Edition, one of the reasons fate is so necessary and the Unconquered Sun didn't just tear down the Bureau of Destiny is because fate is actually one of the many things that the Primordials had to create in order to impose an arbitrary structure on the unlimited possibilities of the Wyld. The point of the Exalted is that they have the power to defy destiny and fate, and thus through essence use they can shape creation to ensure fate does not become overly imposing for mortals. Aka fate already has a safety valve in place, that's us. If 3rd edition hasn't changed anything these Gemitans, if they succeed, might literally obliterate reality itself and make it transition back to it's natural Wyld state. That's bad! And we're not even talking about the infinite amount of Gods who will become our enemies. Including the Gpd of Luck who was literally created for the purposes of tweaking fate so it wouldn't become overly imposing by Luna.

 

[Pipeman]

THANK you.
One advantage, I imagine, from getting Getimian aid would be a higher chance of winning the conflicts (since Sidereals will not help us unless we somehow miraculously survive chapter 4)

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At the same time however one Getimian is unlikely to stalemate all the Siddies involved in this.
Obviously another Exalted on our side and one specifically suited towards dealing with the Fate side of things is still going to be pretty damn useful, but the lower scale of things comes with a tradeoff of the services we can actually expect.

Ultimately we'll have to take a look at what he's offering, demanding and what situation we'll be in to actually make a decision.

 

[veekie]

They already do.
And Getimians aren't on team gleefully destroy the universe as Alectai said (this is assuming Sidereals would even notice which, I'll point out, they're not that good at even at the canon date which is a looong time from now - even CHEJOP can't spot Getimimians).


THANK you.

So we can still interact with the Getimian, hopefully work something out for a mutually-beneficial deal.

One advantage, I imagine, from getting Getimian aid would be a higher chance of winning the conflicts (since Sidereals will not help us unless we somehow miraculously survive chapter 4)

Click to shrink...

Working with individual Getimian is possible, as long as we don't just sign up with their faction altogether.