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The Valkyrior (MCU Thor/Worm)

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Ataru said:
In the Worm epilogue Taylor actually has to live with the consequences of her decisions; she has no powers, a stump for an arm, and no support structure aside from her estranged father. This Taylor has not only avoided all of that, she's arguably been rewarded with all sorts of nifty bonuses. Now, with that in mind is it really so surprising that she's already started backsliding? She's in better shape than she's ever been, she's confident, and like you said, she somewhere where she has a completely blank slate.
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Thus:
VolantRedX said:
So now we have proof that Skitter not only totally failed to learn her lesson from the end of Worm has become even more unlikable.
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Hotdog Vendor said:
Oh dear, must we inflict PRT ratings and the accompanying arguments upon SHIELD?
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I don't understand what people's issue with the PRT Rating system is. It's a cursory overview of what you can, in general, expect from a given person and what the appropriate response should be. The most critical parts of an engagement in bite sized bits. Use heavier rounds on Brutes, avoid Line of Sight on Blasters, target Thinkers first, don't let a Striker touch you. Evacuate the area for anybody given a certain threat rating. It's flexible, easily adaptable, covers every known and theoretically possible power set. And on top of that, you're still expected to describe the power, so it's not like people LOSE anything by using the rating system.
 
VolantRedX said:
You're missing my point. A lot of the major issues in Taylor's life were the direct result of her personal hang ups and biases. A lot of problems could have been solved by meeting people half way. Something she personally realized in the end. Here she has a blank slate, a new start, and fresh ground to do some real good in the world, but she's making the same mistakes again, and worse she is constantly looking down on everyone. She's essentially demanding respect without giving any in return. No one is going to want to help her, or take her advice if she's going to treat them like garbage.
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I'm not missing your point. I'm saying your point doesn't mean what you think it does. Taylor recognizes that she is socially a bit inept. If she thinks about it, she can even point out where she's messed up and misjudged or insulted people.

By nature, she is a driven leader. A doer. Part of that is her power. Probably a very large part of it. Part of that has always been there, the stubbornness. The sheer not-gonna-fuckin-stop-till-I-win.

It is difficult to get along with people who are hard-drivers. Most people just don't get it. Taylor is a combination of Michael Phelps and Genghis Khan, with a side order of Michael Jordan, Stephen Hawking, and Julius Caesar thrown in.

If you happen to be in a position of leadership over Taylor, you point her at the problem and then get the hell out of the way and sort things out when the smoke clears.

There are people that are mentally a lot like Taylor in the real world. They typically have few friends, and many allies.
 
VolantRedX said:
Thus:
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But it's completely believable and therefore not worth complaining about. Nobody cares as long as it's in-character, and without the time for introspection Taylor got after the end, this is completely in-character.

This is the kind of thing that happens to a character that missed their Defining Character Moment of some description: the changes that resulted from that in canon no longer apply. It's just that for Taylor it came after everything was over.

If you want a Taylor that continues on after Worm AND gets her life altering introspection, go read Copacetic. She's still a badass, but the flavour is completely different.
 
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Farmerbob1 said:
It is difficult to get along with people who are hard-drivers. Most people just don't get it. Taylor is a combination of Michael Phelps and Genghis Khan, with a side order of Michael Jordan, Stephen Hawking, and Julius Caesar thrown in.
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All of these people are very charismatic and are good at building interpersonal relationships. Especially Genghis, who united the Mongols through diplomacy as much as he did bloodshed.
Farmerbob1 said:
If you happen to be in a position of leadership over Taylor, you point her at the problem and then get the hell out of the way and sort things out when the smoke clears.
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That's not the issue. The issue isn't about friends. It's that she's alienating potential allies solely because she still has issues with authority. Rather than try and make those in charge understand her ideas, and gain their respect. She's demanding everyone do what she says and when they don't she writes them off as hopeless. This was a character flaw that not only caused her a ton of grief, but one she personally realized she should have gotten over. She outright admits that if she had a second chance she wouldn't have acted the way she did, and now when given that second chance she is doing the exact thing that caused her so many problems.
 
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VolantRedX said:
That's not the issue. The issue isn't about friends. It's that she's alienating potential allies solely because she still has issues with authority. Rather than try and make those in charge understand her ideas, and gain their respect. She's demanding everyone do what she says and when they don't she writes them off as hopeless. This was a character flaw that not only caused her a ton of grief, but one she personally realized she should have gotten over. She outright admits that if she had a second chance she wouldn't have acted the way she did, and now when given that second chance she is doing the exact thing that caused her so many problems.
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-blinks-

When the hell did Taylor write anyone off as hopeless in this story? All she's done so far is brag in order to cut off the "oh, you are just a little girl, why the fuck are you here" thing hill was about to do and then she told the other girl with her how fucked up earth bet was.

She hasn't written anyone off, yet.

Jeez, I thought I was supposed to be the one that overreacts.
 
People are complicated things. Some of the nicest people I know can turn into short tempered bastards under the right conditions. If the previous chapter's Talyor doesn't match your head cannon, just consider she was having an off day. If you just can't accept it consider not following the story anymore.
 
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OverReactionGuy said:
When the hell did Taylor write anyone off as hopeless in this story?
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She says she "knows Hill's type" as someone that wants to be made to look good. It just feels like Taylor is on the road to making the exact same mistakes over again.

mwjen said:
If the previous chapter's Talyor doesn't match your head cannon
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It's not about headcanon. It's that instead of trying to avoid falling into the same pits that ruined a lot of her reputation on Earth Bet she is actively seeking them out. She seems to have learned nothing.

Heather Sinclair said:
Stop this bullshit. If you want to insult someone leave this fucking thread.
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Sorry, but the constant wanking of Taylor in every Worm thread is reaching the point of actively pissing me off.
 
VolantRedX said:
All of these people are very charismatic and are good at building interpersonal relationships. Especially Genghis, who united the Mongols through diplomacy as much as he did bloodshed. Also could you be anymore of a sycophantic fanboy? I don't think you're working the shaft enough.


That's not the issue. The issue isn't about friends. It's that she's alienating potential allies solely because she still has issues with authority. Rather than try and make those in charge understand her ideas, and gain their respect. She's demanding everyone do what she says and when they don't she writes them off as hopeless. This was a character flaw that not only caused her a ton of grief, but one she personally realized she should have gotten over. She outright admits that if she had a second chance she wouldn't have acted the way she did, and now when given that second chance she is doing the exact thing that caused her so many problems.
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Genghis Kahn led the Mongols because he consistently outfought and outthought his enemies. The same with Julius Caesar. They were popular because the enemy died, and their troops didn't. Michael Phelps and Michael Jordan got as good as they were partly because of raw talent, but they were the best because they pushed themselves to levels of training that honed their raw talent to levels nobody else could touch. They had a few athlete friends. Stephen Hawking has been saying 'fuck you' to mother nature for decades, because he has important things to think about.

If Taylor hadn't come to Asgard, she might have started sorting through all these personal issues and interpersonal relationships and ended up in the same place as canon Taylor did, mentally. A more normal human being. In this world though, she has the administrator shard back. She has her bugs. She's been handed a important task by someone competent, who knows how important that task is.

When you give Taylor something important to do, allies and respect are more important than friends. She's doing the exact same thing that saved an entire multiverse from Scion.
 
VolantRedX said:
It's not about headcanon. It's that instead of trying to avoid falling into the same pits that ruined a lot of her reputation on Earth Bet she is actively seeking them out. She seems to have learned nothing.
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Taylor learned how to get the f'ing job done and saved trillions of people from Scion. And you think it's wrong?

I'm sure she'd like to have more friends. Is she supposed to let the world die because she wants enough friends for a good poker night?
 
Farmerbob1 said:
When you give Taylor something important to do, allies and respect are more important than friends. She's doing the exact same thing that saved an entire multiverse from Scion.
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No, being able to control people's bodies did that. Remember, people didn't want to listen to her at all.

And again you're missing my point. It's not about friends. It's about her making the same mistakes and trying to demand respect. Taylor knew that her distrust in others was a personality flaw, that in the end meant that she didn't have the support she needed. No one listened to her, that's why she needed Amy to jailbreak her. She wasn't some general everyone took orders from. She was mind controlling them.
 
VolantRedX said:
Sorry, but the constant wanking of Taylor in every Worm thread is reaching the point of actively pissing me off.
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Take a step back from the keyboard.

Go get a sandwich, watch some TV, listen to some music.

Fucking relax. Smoke a bowl.

You good now?

Good.

You are reading and actively interested in Worm Fanfiction, which has a protagonist named Taylor who goes and does things.

Complaining about people wanking her is like complaining about Wanking Harry Potter, or Naruto, or practically any other protagonist in every other piece of literature known to man.

What did you expect? You are dealing with FANS.

If you cant handle it, then perhaps reading fanfiction isn't your cup of tea?

But your constant confrontational and downright unpleasant attitude has really been grating on me and I think it's safe to say it's been grating on other people as well.
 
-sighs-

I kinda hope this is the end of the debate since no one will change their minds for one.

For two, I don't want a damn mod called down here. It might be heading that way if it continues.
 
Seclorum said:
You are reading and actively interested in Worm Fanfiction, which has a protagonist named Taylor who goes and does things.

Complaining about people wanking her is like complaining about Wanking Harry Potter, or Naruto, or practically any other protagonist in every other piece of literature known to man.
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The issue is that it misses the best part about Taylor. Acting like Taylor is an auto-win, the greatest character that would just walk through every obstacle is missing the point of Taylor. It's that most of the time she is vastly out gunned and has to fight, and claw, and bleed, for even a slim chance at winning. Her wins are decided by inches, and often come at a huge cost. Ignoring that, writing the struggle off, means taking away one of her biggest traits.
 
VolantRedX said:
No, being able to control people's bodies did that. Remember, people didn't want to listen to her at all.

And again you're missing my point. It's not about friends. It's about her making the same mistakes and trying to demand respect. Taylor knew that her distrust in others was a personality flaw, that in the end meant that she didn't have the support she needed. No one listened to her, that's why she needed Amy to jailbreak her. She wasn't some general everyone took orders from. She was mind controlling them.
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Exactly. She did what needed to be done. 'Doing the wrong things for the right reasons.'

Nobody was going to listen to anyone because Scion was intentionally preventing their cooperation with terror tactics, even if Taylor lived in Care-a-lot and asked everyone to help make a rainbow, most of them would have kept running around with their hands in the air, screaming because of what Scion was doing.

You are upset at this fic's Taylor exemplifying the single most important trait that Taylor had in canon. I simply don't understand where you are coming from, and I'm done with the conversation.
 
Farmerbob1 said:
Exactly. She did what needed to be done. 'Doing the wrong things for the right reasons.'

Nobody was going to listen to anyone because Scion was intentionally preventing their cooperation with terror tactics, even if Taylor lived in Care-a-lot and asked everyone to help make a rainbow, most of them would have kept running around with their hands in the air, screaming because of what Scion was doing.

You are upset at this fic's Taylor exemplifying the single most important trait that Taylor had in canon. I simply don't understand where you are coming from, and I'm done with the conversation.
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What? No really, what are you talking about? Are we having two different conversations? It's not about being nice or friendly. It's about not meeting people half way or giving people respect. Something she admits she should have done if she could have a second chance.
 
Well, might as well throw my part in this.

I didn't like how Taylor acted, when she should be smarter and know better. When she should have learned and recognized her flaws and wished she could have done better.

However, that was at the point of death. And people can get surprisingly introspective when they are dying.

So odds are maybe now that she is healthy and doing better than ever, the lesson has faded a bit from her mind. Oh well, its not like MCU doesn't have its share of problems and disasters to remind her, to kick her regressed character development in the teeth and get her to grow up again.
 
VolantRedX said:
The issue is that it misses the best part about Taylor. Acting like Taylor is an auto-win, the greatest character that would just walk through every obstacle is missing the point of Taylor. It's that most of the time she is vastly out gunned and has to fight, and claw, and bleed, for even a slim chance at winning. Her wins are decided by inches, and often come at a huge cost. Ignoring that, writing the struggle off, means taking away one of her biggest traits.
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No shit. It's because things kept escalating. Now not only has Taylor gotten a power boost by being recruited as a valkyrie, the whole situation has also DE-ESCALATED. Suddenly all this breathing room! Clearly this means we should go back to when stuff was this easy the first time, even though we now know how to get shit done on that higher level.

There are now a dozen or so arguments for why this is a great fic and is portraying things more-or-less accurately. You keep going on about the way YOU want things to happen, for whatever inane reason. You have managed to alienate yourself from nearly the entire thread because of your fit of nerd rage. Just stop.
 
Phant0m5 said:
There are now a dozen or so arguments for why this is a great fic and is portraying things more-or-less accurately
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It's not about the fic. It's the constant glorifying of Taylor in the comments, and acting like she'd just walk over all the bad guys in Marvel. She's not being wanked in the story. It's the readers who are wanking the hell out of her. I mean the story has barely started, we have no idea the level of threats that might or might not exist, and yet it seems like every other comment is about how screwed Loki would be or how Taylor would need two days to conquer the Nine Realms or something. That's what's annoying.
 
VolantRedX said:
It's not about the fic. It's the constant glorifying of Taylor in the comments, and acting like she'd just walk over all the bad guys in Marvel. She's not being wanked in the story. It's the readers who are wanking the hell out of her. I mean the story has barely started, we have no idea the level of threats that might or might not exist, and yet it seems like every other comment is about how screwed Loki would be or how Taylor would need two days to conquer the Nine Realms or something. That's what's annoying.
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Then take it up on your own goddamn thread and stop trying to derail THIS one.
 
I, for one, can't wait for Taylor to meet Tony Stark. They are going to spark off each other so badly. Both extremely competent and highly intelligent. Both with so many lessons they learned by trial and error. Neither of them very good at interpersonal relationships.
 
Farmerbob1 said:
I, for one, can't wait for Taylor to meet Tony Stark. They are going to spark off each other so badly. Both extremely competent and highly intelligent. Both with so many lessons they learned by trial and error. Neither of them very good at interpersonal relationships.
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Tony is good at one kind of interpersonal relationship...and Taylor is 18 now. Just pointing that out.
 
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