So that's it, end of the line for the research chain into our most emblematic artifact, the one that is in our character's name?
Bah, that is probably worth extra shame for the cowardice.
Seriously though it is a bit of an anticlimax.
The Twin Holds: A Dwarf Karak Quest. (Warhammer Fantasy)
So that's it, end of the line for the research chain into our most emblematic artifact, the one that is in our character's name?
Bah, that is probably worth extra shame for the cowardice.
Seriously though it is a bit of an anticlimax.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I think it's kind of ridiculous that there's shame for it at all, the Elves and Dawi worked extensively together for literally thousands of years. The dawi know this, it's not shameful, except in the fact that Elgi spat on their alliance to their point of view. I don't know seems very strange.
- Location
- Netherlands
What? No.So that's it, end of the line for the research chain into our most emblematic artifact, the one that is in our character's name?
Bah, that is probably worth extra shame for the cowardice.
Seriously though it is a bit of an anticlimax.
Your roll means that you don't need to worry about someone else uncovering it and using it to shame your clan, first.
For real. Why would I end this storyline here. Give me a little credit, please.
- Location
- Utrecht
Does the book contain the instructions about how the bolts are made though?
I.e. if we had a wizard and a runesmith willing to cooperate (providing the origin was not shameful), could we make more of them?
I think the shame part is the collaboration of runesmiths and wizards. I do not think most dwarfs know about the waystones being the same.
Well my initial question was 'will we keep getting more shame if we keep looking into this and eventually manage to make more of them?' So I'm a little confused now
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- Location
- Netherlands
People. You can't just expect me to mark every single event that might possible earn you a shame point. Especially when you earn them for uncovering -secrets-
The fact that your Clan once melded Runesmithing with Elgi Sorcery, and that your clan name is derived from it. IS REALLY SHAMEFUL. Know what's shameful too? Striking it from your archives and hiding it in your room for the time being.
Telling you where and how you might set off a proverbial shame landmine would be metagaming, and spoilers.
Note how the super secret possibly magical alchemy you practices was absolutely shame free because most of it was Dawi-made stuff. And no runes were used.
The fact that your Clan once melded Runesmithing with Elgi Sorcery, and that your clan name is derived from it. IS REALLY SHAMEFUL. Know what's shameful too? Striking it from your archives and hiding it in your room for the time being.
Telling you where and how you might set off a proverbial shame landmine would be metagaming, and spoilers.
Note how the super secret possibly magical alchemy you practices was absolutely shame free because most of it was Dawi-made stuff. And no runes were used.
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If we have no way to estimate when something might earn us shame then the logical thing to do is to be a lot more conservative with that research. I'm not saying it is not entirely valid for you to rule that way, but I suspect it will end with that bolt never being touched again for fear of more shame. I have been part of enough quests to be quite sure in the judgement that, all other things being equal, SV players will prioritize the main character's peace of mind over ancient secrets
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- Location
- Australia
Thank god those bribes were taken, those rolls must have a bit rough otherwise.
- Location
- Utrecht
[] Hide the book and strike it's existence from the archive. (+1 Shame, No chance of Discovery, Research options unlocked)
[] Leave the book in the archive, and risk discovery by other dwarfs that peruse the archive (Chance of your clan's shame being discovered, major repercussions for your hold)
[] Reveal the existence of the book, denounce your ancestors' deeds (Ends Starbolt research line)
Edit: For clarity, this is me trying to model the thought process, not a suggestion. Which probably would have been useful to write half an hour ago...
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- Location
- Netherlands
Except all other things aren't equal.
You wanna get Starbolts? Start taking risks.
You wanna grow the Guild? Start taking risks.
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I do not think those risks will be taken We have no urgent need of starbolts but we do like Bokri as a character and do not want him to go slayer. Shame never goes away and there is no reliable or even semi-reliable way to get more capacity.
Just to be clear I will make a plan to keep looking into it because I do think the idea is cool, but I do not think it will have much chance to winning.
- Location
- Utrecht
Honestly, after Teclis' warning of what the Starbolts could do with Dhar, or if the Skaven got their hands on them, I'm kinda scared to use them in any situation where one could get lost.
- Location
- Netherlands
No. I'm not doing that.
You people got 1 shame point and managed to stop it from being revealed later on for MUCH more shame. One out of ten. With occasional chances to increase it. And you learned incredibly valuable knowledge and stopped anyone from blackmailing you in the future with that knowledge.
Stop overreacting to something so minor.
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- Location
- Utrecht
it wasn't a suggestion to you. Just me spit balling a model of possible repercussions in the dwarf mindset.
I'm ok with the +1 shame.
Was my modeling of the reaction accurate?
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
No one will believe that we worked with Elgi to make our clans stuff. Hiding the book was the right choice in any world. Unless someone finds it we will be fine and even then we can just accuse the shit out of anyone who does as a elf lover.
- Location
- AxeLand
I am thinking the ranger missions to fight Skaven in the vaults are what should be tackled first especially with the King of Karak Izor willing to fund a branch within his hold would be a good start to expanding the guild and making seem more legitimate. Also our clan name is Rakidum and I don't think we have been killing enough Raki.
The expedition to Karag Dum also interests me seeing as even getting Ungrim to think neutrally about our guild would be a big win for it also treasure and rune weapons are nice.
The expedition to Karag Dum also interests me seeing as even getting Ungrim to think neutrally about our guild would be a big win for it also treasure and rune weapons are nice.
- Location
- Over the next hill.
A shame point is a shame point. I trust Mayto to balance shame increases fairly as well as chances to increase shame capacity. I mean it's been hinted at a lot in this quest that the bolts weren't totally of dawi make, so its not like it came out of nowhere. Besides I don't think a reduction in the consequences of the shame mechanic would benefit the quest in any way except to powergame. It makes sense that finding out "non-traditional" and "undawi" lost tech are part of our clan's history would cause an increase. It's not like we're playing humans or orcs.
Anyway I'm done commenting on that. Nice that we got the tunnel done for basically free for fixing that skaven issue in Zhufbar, I assume thats going to make a lot of our potential economic options more juicy. We should definitely visit the Norse dwarfs in the next two turns to take advantage of that auto success.
Anyway I'm done commenting on that. Nice that we got the tunnel done for basically free for fixing that skaven issue in Zhufbar, I assume thats going to make a lot of our potential economic options more juicy. We should definitely visit the Norse dwarfs in the next two turns to take advantage of that auto success.
- Location
- AxeLand
I reckon they have probably got some ranger techniques for surviving up in the hell hole north which might be useful if we end going or sending people out on the Karag Dum expedition.
- Location
- Utrecht
I want to do Karak Izor first, we had two Advisor rescues in two consecutive turns... we need to do something to get them to like us more.
Power-gaming does not care about shame that much. As far as power-gaming is concerned shame capacity is a resource, which we should spend all the way as long as we have a good heir trained up by the time the last point drops. The only real reason to care about any point of shame save the last is care for Bokri as a character which I think will be the driving force to killing the starbolt research.
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
I have to agree with you on this. Hiding something so important is a shameful but necessary. With it hidden we can continue our research with less risk of it being discovered.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If we're lucky, there may be a few +Shame steps, but not an unmanageable number.
To be fair, we don't know that's what happened in this timeline.
No.So that's it, end of the line for the research chain into our most emblematic artifact, the one that is in our character's name?
Bah, that is probably worth extra shame for the cowardice.
Seriously though it is a bit of an anticlimax.
It just means the quest chain leads to a new step: Find proof of the legitimacy and propriety of your ancestors' actions.
It should be noted that we also have an ork WAAAGH! to worry about here in the Vaults...
Can't be done, shame is forever, you can only get more capacity. For this to have given shame it has to be something Bokri finds inexcusable under any and all circumstances.
- Location
- Netherlands
Can you stop being such a Debbie downer?
I literally already told you that you'll be able to try to find proof of legitimacy and propriety before you reveal the Starbolts.