Voting is open
Say what you want. The High Elves want a blank slate and for both sides to agree they did horrible stuff, and learn to move on so they can deal with the bigger threat.

The Dwarfs want recompense, down to the last casualty, even Dwarfs who died attacking elven cities, or who'd been part of massacres. Which the Elves are never going to do. They won't apologize for defending their homes from an army of rampaging dwarfs.
 
The Elves can't convince the Dawi its all actually Malekith's fault I suppose? Shift all those grudges onto his head instead?
 
Yeah, and it does at least fit the mentality of both sides, at least in how they perceive the world, but in terms of the outside POV i would relate more to the elvish, but I can't say that the dwarvish take is out of character for how they are portrayed in Warhammer so I guess it comes down to the dwarves slowly coming around, which I really hope is possible to see in quest.

The Elves can't convince the Dawi its all actually Malekith's fault I suppose? Shift all those grudges onto his head instead?


I think the dwarves would take the logic of "Yeah, but these elves still killed our people, battle or no, and we demand redress."
 
Dwarfs are the type to swear vengeance for someone killing their mass-murdering cousin. They can acknowledge that their cousin shouldn't have done that but will still be pissed as fuck that some one killed them even if it was to defend themselves.
 
The Dwarfs literally killed every elven colonist they could get their hands on during the War of Vengeance, down to the children, and waged their war like a campaign of genocide.

The elves want to move on. But they are never going to say sorry. Especially not for grudges accrued defending the elven colonies from dwarf attacks.

Well, I mean...*sigh* yeah, you're probably right.

Say what you want. The High Elves want a blank slate and for both sides to agree they did horrible stuff, and learn to move on so they can deal with the bigger threat.

The Dwarfs want recompense, down to the last casualty, even Dwarfs who died attacking elven cities, or who'd been part of massacres. Which the Elves are never going to do. They won't apologize for defending their homes from an army of rampaging dwarfs.

On the other hand, this is a reason that the elves might be able to rationalize it to themselves. Dwarves are biologically incapable of forgiveness, they can only accept balanced slates. The elves could say to themselves, "look, we don't actually mean it, but the Dawi are incapable of moving on, so we'll just have to humor them to buy peace."

Or is that interpretation of dwarves not canon to this quest? Because if dwarves can forgive or even just manage to shelve that massive weight of grudges, that affects a lot of decisions.
 
On the other hand, this is a reason that the elves might be able to rationalize it to themselves. Dwarves are biologically incapable of forgiveness, they can only accept balanced slates. The elves could say to themselves, "look, we don't actually mean it, but the Dawi are incapable of moving on, so we'll just have to humor them to buy peace."

Or is that interpretation of dwarves not canon to this quest? Because if dwarves can forgive or even just manage to shelve that massive weight of grudges, that affects a lot of decisions.
Like a lot of things with Dawi in Warhammer Canon. What they show the humans and what they show each other is very -very- different.

A Dawi can forgive. But good luck finding any Dawi that will admit they can, let alone one willing to do so. For a dwarf to forgive, it requires them to push past a lifetime of education, strict societal norms, cultural rites, religious upbringing. And they are still, by their nature, incredibly stubborn.

Thorgrim once outright forgave Tyrion for insulting him, because he
1: saw that Tyrion was on a dark path.
2: acknowledged that the Dawi could do without such a grudge.
 
Last edited:
Dawi can forgive. But good luck finding any Dawi that will admit they can, let alone one willing to do so. For a dwarf to forgive, it requires them to push past a lifetime of education, strict societal norms, cultural rites, religious upbringing. And they are still, by their nature, incredibly stubborn.

Ok, that nevertheless changes everything. Every other quest I've read, dawi moving past grudges is a literal impossibility. If the slightest chance exists, that colours all other diplomatic options - everything gets slightly more possible.

Very glad this came up before elf stuff went much further.
 
Ok, that nevertheless changes everything. Every other quest I've read, dawi moving past grudges is a literal impossibility. If the slightest chance exists, that colours all other diplomatic options - everything gets slightly more possible.

Very glad this came up before elf stuff went much further.
I mean. Canon has plenty of occasion where a Dawi puts a grudge on the back burner to deal with something more pressing, although they'll keep the grudge in mind all the time. Gotrek has a literal oath to a god to die in battle. But when he saw that a friend was doomed unless he helped them, he dropped everything to get them to safety.

Dawi don't 'move past grudges' though. They can just go 'no. That isn't a grudge'
 
Last edited:
DO KEEP IN MIND.

I doubt you'll ever see forgiveness more than once in this entire quest. Hell. It will probably never happen, not even by Bokri. And even then, it would probably still involve quite a bit of mental gymnastics to retro-actively decide if something is or was grudge-worthy.

Don't ask for it, and certainly don't plan for it.
 
Last edited:
I wish future generations could look at grudges of the past and say "Ok they had a point on that one" and strike them out but due to ancestor worship this will never happen.
 
Last edited:
DO KEEP IN MIND.

I doubt you'll ever see forgiveness more than once in this entire quest. Hell. It will probably never happen, not even by Bokri. And even then, it would probably still involve quite a bit of mental gymnastics to retro-actively decide if something is or was grudge-worthy.

Don't ask for it, and certainly don't plan for it.

I don't expect that, it's more that it changes something from black/white options to shades of grey. Yes, shades of Grey that are near indistinguishable from black and white, but it makes a functional difference.
 
[canon omake] The Last Saga, The Tale of Ragnarksson
The Last Saga, The Tale of Ragnarksson

It is a beautiful night in the land of Brettonnia, and the port town of Hendaye burns. Located on the north coast of Brettonnia, just north of the great city of Couronne itself. It acted as a bit of a military port, its naval garrison designed to escort merchant ships and hunt down pirates. Some sailors vividly remember the times when they were called to do battle with the Norscan Longships before the Peninsula was cleansed by the forces of the Empire to their west and Kislev. Hendaye itself was also rather well fortified, its garrison of Men-at-Arms and Knights of the Realm rather substantial for the area. All of this was not even allowing for the fact that a small chapter of knights beholden to Manaan also made their home here, often riding out to do battle in support of the Gallic marines. Hendaye was a veritable fortress that, while oftentimes battling with Orcs and Beastmen, has never been truly threatened by any force. It's walls were too high, its store too deep, and there were a bevy of far easier targets surrounding the town that protected Hendaye from its foes. But tonight it burned.

The walls remain untouched, if empty. It's main gate was barred shut, preventing the masses of peasants from fleeing into the hills, and the resulting slaughter left so many corpses that the gates could only be opened if swung outward. Of the city itself, much was set ablaze. Between the gore filled streets and bloody puddles that filled the gutters, block after block of buildings were burning fiercely. Soon to join them were the town's keep and the Chapter House of Manaan, as these were the places the knights had formed their desperate last stands (atleast, those not slaughtered at the docks or in the streets). Only the harbor remained mostly intact, the sinking and burning warships of Brettonnia removed from their mooring to make way for the iconic wolf ships of the Norse. All of this was observed by the architect of Hendaye's destruction, who sat upon the roof of the central keep in solemn contemplation. Despite still towering over most southerners the lad was short for his people's standards, but no less robust when it came to muscle. Clad in a mix of furs and mail, armor looted from a dozen places, the young and weathered face of Atli Ragnarksson, now Ravenoath, sat in thought as he held his bloody axes, slick with the blood of the city's ruling Lord.

THIS IS BUT A TASTE, MORE IS NEEDED! MORE!

Yes, Your Hate Is Strong. But There Is So Much More You Could Indulge In. Let Me In, And My Power Will Be Yours…~

yOu lAcK FiNeSsE, mY DeAr sImPlEtOn. YoU GoAl iS BeYoNd yOu iF YoU SiMpLy cRaSh yOuR SkUlL InTo tHe wAlL! tHiNk, MoRtAl, ThInK!

my boy, so tired and sad. let grandpa take you in, i can take all that crippling pain away if you just let me love you.

Vengeance! Blood for Blood! An Eye for an Eye! It will be yours! It is your Birthright!

HGBTUYITFGYUgyUvbfguytjGyuiFtyBFVguiGFbuiNGyuIBGuREVENGEytIBFtyUfgtyuIGyUtyuTyuBtyutyuiBTgyuiNgbyuiGyuGNYugyu


Atli closed his eyes. They screamed in the back of his mind, the voices. Always tempting, always offering more power. He took in their power, true, but he refused to let them conquer him. They wanted a servant, a champion, something he could not be. He just needed an edge. A chance… to get to HIM.

Wooden handles cracked under his steel vice, those damned voices finally going silent as their corruption was burnt away by the pure, single minded fury unknown to any mortal. Atli could see him, in his minds eye. He could see him, imagining the one responsible for all of the pain, agony, and suffering he and his people felt. Blood began to drip down the handles of his axes when he came into focus, the same face he had imagined over, and over, and over again. No amount of fantasizing could justify his thirst for revenge, no amount of pain, injury, or death Atli's fractured mind could conjure could ever form a scene that truly encapsulates just how much vitriolic hate the young Norscan could feel towards a single man.

That man named-

"Jarl Ravenoath, the men are ready." The Huskarl declared from behind Atli. The Huskarl stood tall, greatly favored by the Four, but not Chosen. Not yet. So few were left chosen, and the favor of the four had shifted to the horse riders of the east. Not out of disfavor even, but out of pure necessity. So few of the Northmen remained. With the Kurgan and Beastmen encroaching above and the Ratmen and Dwarfs rising from beneath, the Jarls and Kings live in fear, willing to sit in their mountain fortresses as Norsca loses its identity, its legacy to its foes.

"My Jarl?" The Huskarl questioned, nervously. Jarl Atli grunted and stood.

"Good. We're leaving." The Jarl stepped over the corpses of the Lord and the half a handful of Grail knights who came to the town, forewarned by their 'Lady' of the great evil that came (jUsT As pLaNnEd!).

Soon, the Longships weighed anchor and made for the North, their hold's filled with plunder, not to share with their clans and villages (there were none to share with) but to bribe and shame those so-called lords out of their hiding places. Atli would force the remains of his people into line, by blade or by bread. Then, steppe nomads would submit, or perish. Then, with those forces under his command… Vengeance would be his.

In the coming days, the lords of the country side and their levy's would find the fortress harbor-town of Hendaye a hollow shell, charcoal ruins ringed with stone. The corpses of knights, beheaded and stripped of their armor were crucified within the town square, surrounding a hoard of treasure and piles of bodies. 'This was no simple plunder,' that message would send, 'this was an act of cruelty and death.' Several other coastal villages and towns would suffer the same fate. The Sons of the Drake, the last true warband of Norsca, would slaughter and plunder like the times of old. The marauders of the band were like the golden flakes one panned from the mud and sand of a river stream, the some of the greatest warriors of Norsca by process of elimination. This warband, hundreds of men strong, would go on to terrify the coasts of Brettonnia and the Empire this raiding season. But that was in the future, both near and far.

Now, as the Brettonnian town glowed like a beacon from the ocean, Atli Ravenoath stared up to the stars. He recalled the pacts and deals he made for power, for vengeance. The battles he fought so hard for to earn his host, their respect, their undying loyalty. The battles that were to come. And yet always, always his mind was focused far ahead to the same point. A man, spoken as if he was a god of terror himself among their people. As the young Jarl beheld the constellation he was born under, Dragomas, he whispered the oath he made to himself the day he started his quest. The oath
that the Four listened to, the oath that attracted that bloody handed one.

"On this day I swear, under pain of death, by my honor, my life and my soul, I will slay the man responsible. I will kill the thousand-damned Emperor Magnus von Bildhofen, if it is the last thing I or my people do."




Was thinking about Norsca and their essentially removal from the board and got this idea bouncing about my head. They probably both Fear and Hate Magnus, so I thought might as well make a story were Magnus is the bad guy in this situation for our 'protagonist' Atli Ravenoath. Working on some other projects right now, so enjoy!
 
Turn 6 rolls

Expatriates.

Then clan rolls.
Mayto threw 5 20-faced dice. Total: 51
8 8 14 14 17 17 11 11 1 1
Mayto threw 2 6-faced dice. Total: 4
3 3 1 1
Mayto threw 4 9-faced dice. Total: 24
9 9 4 4 9 9 2 2
Mayto threw 1 100-faced dice. Total: 92
92 92
 
Last edited:
51 expatriates from the empire.

A normal feud between Clan Silverhaft and Clan Norgrim.

A blood feud between Clan Powderhand and Clan Barruk.
 
A clan of Masons from the World's Edge Mountains, fresh from the Everpeak, but with ancestral ties to Karak Brynduraz.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top