Is that how that works? My understanding is that the ability for others to accompany us was down to their individual affinity for the Street (plus desire to do so). By that logic the fact that we met our new party members on the Street should imply that they can accompany us further.
Based from talks we have back with Musurov, it seems to based to an extent on our Attunement, which Mask increases. As such it might be relevant factor in taking along other people, especially Jephris which seems custom made for this world.

In either case Attunement is probably closest thing we have to a god stat, so we should get to Dwindlings in regardless.
As far as Jaeger in general I think it's foolish to put ourselves in a position where the entire world is hostile to us for an extended period of time without expecting severe consequences.
That is very surface level analysis of our situation. There are three different ways we can found ourselves in danger: being hunted down by the military and nuked, drawing Kaijus towards us and attracting third party faction of super mages. First is largely a non issue I feel, unless it is combined with third, second is somewhat desirable, and third has range of possible scenario which include diplomacy and peer relevant foes, not just us getting deleted by malicious supergods.

Jaeger retains ability to just Spectral Flight away in case of naked aggression, and this ability will increase as our overall combat capability increases. If we are attacked and forced to retreat from this world at ~18 Dwindlings mark, that would still be good enough and we would feel fine about it. So we have baseline, we have decent option to retreat and I feel a pretty good about our Kaiju hunt actually being a Kaiju hunt and not evil god interrupt.

As for this vs diplomacy, I think main difference is that Jaeger is just plain easier to plan for and execute. For military, a lot of stuff hinges on people we can't control or account for, to say nothing of possible conspiracy mage angle we talked about earlier. And while their teleportation network could help us a lot with Kaiju hunt, it does seem like it comes with one too many potential string attached. As always I prefer simplicity.
The idea of Dwindling until we can just smite whatever sounds nice, but there's no way the Forest is just going to let us do that.
We would actually fight as a) we don't want to waste too much time and b) we need Jephris up close to actually control the mana as the Kaiju blows up.
 
There are three different ways we can found ourselves in danger: being hunted down by the military and nuked, drawing Kaijus towards us and attracting third party faction of super mages. First is largely a non issue I feel, unless it is combined with third, second is somewhat desirable, and third has range of possible scenario which include diplomacy and peer relevant foes, not just us getting deleted by malicious supergods.

The third option is very difficult to reason about because it could be basically anything, so I'm going to focus on the other two.

The first, while not a major immediate threat, is one that grows over time (as resources can be turned in our direction) and becomes a growing source of attrition.

The second behaves similarly, we already had a fight that would have been difficult without unrestrained distortion, and it's likely to get worse as we keep running around dwindling. Putting those dwindlings into fleeing and stealth (understandable under the circumstances) leaves us less able to keep pace with the forest as it becomes more and more irate.

This creates a dynamic where the threats are ratcheting up as we become worn down by our surroundings over the course of weeks. I worry that if we press our luck too hard we might end up unable to escape to the Street.

Your point regarding the limits of diplomacy is sound, though there should be some relics which they've reverse engineered and therefore can explain to Musorov to much greater benefit.

I think the assumption that we'll be in a position to go hunting having completed the steps in Jaeger is somewhat careless, but having thought it over they are still good things to have even if we just do it and immediately have to run, so I'm willing to vote for it now and reassess next update.

[X] Plan Jaeger
 
second is somewhat desirable,
I disagree; preferably, every Kaiju we fight involves us as the ambusher, not the ambushee, and involves us picking and choosing our battles.
Unless you think Kaiju-finding is so hard, and Kaiju-fighting so safe, that saving the time to locate a Kaiju is worth being thrown into the encounter unprepared, second is undesirable. I'd think this is obviously false; it'd be hard to describe our most recent encounter as less than a 5% chance of death and I'd peg it higher, whereas our ability to make custom magic on demand is especially good for Kaiju-finding since we can freely decide on new divination-vectors to find one that's not ~warded against(if divination is hard on Kaijus at all). Likely our time remaining on Taure will fall slower than our death% rises, if we keep getting ambushed by kaijus.
 
I think the assumption that we'll be in a position to go hunting having completed the steps in Jaeger is somewhat careless, but having thought it over they are still good things to have even if we just do it and immediately have to run, so I'm willing to vote for it now and reassess next update.
That's somewhat of a point, yeah. It doesn't have to work out, to work out. Even getting 12 Dwindlings before being forced out would be "good enough", and defensive focus of the option should help us shore worse loss outcomes. And considering we had opportunity to try for 20 just few updates ago, that doesn't seem that far out of the reach.

If it works out, it super works out. Great baseline, relatively small risk of true loss, great reward if it works out.
 
Lets talk about Masks for a bit. You might remember how I argued against Dwindling Artificer, saying how getting more starting Potential is pointless with Jeprhis being around. This is still the case, however back then I have failed to realize the next step of that logic, that we are not required to spend all our Artificer potential on starting Potential boost, meaning that we can get other shit instead. Jaeger is doing exactly that, however implications on our general gameplay are actually much more important than this one plan alone. Now, we don't know the scale of boost - my modest expectations are 3x faster crafting, but I could see anywhere from 5x to 10x depending on how Birdsie want to play it.

First of all, between much shorter Mask creation time, Jephris being able to boost any mask to 40~50 right away and Contamination removing the need for physical resources, we drastically increase our ability to solve issues by just crafting exact solution for it(which is what I'm doing right not). Provided that we are not in direct combat situation basically every tactic can start with "craft exact ability we could use right now", which will just help our problem solving immensely.

Second of all, our general mask crafting is even more of miscellaneous action. For example, between this plan and start of the hunt, we can just take an hour at some point to craft all the masks we have in the backlog - storage, anti-Somber, Glass etc. Provided we spend a week in this world, we can make triplicate of every mask we currently own, which would help us create redundancy so we don't get fucked by Artificer getting destroyed again and, much more importantly - trade!

Holy shit, its finally time. We can make a bunch of masks and trade them. How cool is that? We don't even need to be cute, just make copies of our mask and trade them; combat ability and healing of CL, whole all magic system with Arcanist or even Artificer(probably too dangerous) and to say nothing of how valuable Streetwalker mask will be to other Streetwalkers. For so long we were on the backfoot so we didn't really have time to stock up and so we had to dodge Street social actions as we were mere paupers, but now there is finally opportunity to trade and I am genuinely excited for it.
 
i don't disagree with any one part of your analysis, but i think you're overestimating how much we're going to be able to exploit the ambient mana on this planet. It looks promising, but the power-curve for the locations we've visited has been relatively difficult to climb.

Hopefully this will be our big break, but I'd like to be on record with a prediction that Kaiju-hunting or trying to leverage the Burgeoning will draw the attention/retribution of the forest more generally.
 
Alright. Let's lock the vote. Fair warning, though, I'll be somewhat busy in the coming days so the update might be a bit late.
 
i don't disagree with any one part of your analysis, but i think you're overestimating how much we're going to be able to exploit the ambient mana on this planet. It looks promising, but the power-curve for the locations we've visited has been relatively difficult to climb.
We didn't have ability to just massively power up back then, though.
Hopefully this will be our big break, but I'd like to be on record with a prediction that Kaiju-hunting or trying to leverage the Burgeoning will draw the attention/retribution of the forest more generally.
I mean sure, it might work, it might not work. Our information is limited. We could just get 12-20 Dwindlings and be forced to retreat, which is still more than fine. We could spend a week or two on a singular successful hunt, and that would still be amazing success. Or if Kaijus are ~Sea Urchin level of power and wit and forest don't go apeshit, we could farm the damn things. Who knows.

For me the important thing are failure states, which is basically getting attacked and having someone die before we can retreat. As long as we avoid that we good.
 
Adhoc vote count started by fame on Aug 29, 2024 at 11:28 AM, finished with 43 posts and 19 votes.

  • [X] Fortify and Negotiate
    [X] Plan Jaeger
    -[X] Immediately have Jephris Dwindle Artificer, increasing our mask crafting speed then craft Spectral Flight, an AoE version of Spectre that can be used for escape and long distance travel purposes for the entire team. Have Jeprhis and Linneas collect more Mana for Dwindling so you can upgrade that mask after we make it
    -[X] Escape to the forest. Dwindle along the way upgrading Spectral Flight and our earphones to improve our runaway capabilities
    -[X] After initial escape, Dwindle to upgrade our Armor, BL, Musurov's mask and Icarelian to max out our combat potential. Keep moving, perhaps craft some kind of hiding/sensory detecting mask to help us out
    -[X] Once you are ready, craft a mask that will let us locate powerful beings or centers of great mana. The hunt is on
    [X] Stay and Coordinate
    [X] Leave Taure
    [X] Stay and Hide
    [X] Write In: Unassailable Coorhidenation
    -[X] Attempt to create a Mask (or Relic) that allows for the manifestation of selective (ie: things can only pass through with your consent; or else, just one-way except to Mana and a limited amount of light) portals through which Japhris can work her magic, using a minimum of Dwindlings and moving on from the location you did so at immediately. If successful, you can engage in the Coordination (or Stay and Hide at your preference) without exposing yourself (making another Mask for general concealment, in case of advanced scanners or tracking). If this is impossible, Leave Taure.
    -[X] Unless Leaving Taure, dispose of your body armor and other Government-sourced objects if you think they might betrackable, such as via a GPS.
    [X] Leave Taure - Indeed, a feat of this scale won't go unnoticed for long. You'll have to retreat from Taure and hope this is written off as some freakish abnormality once you disappear. You can potentially Dwindle a couple more forests on your way out to form extra artifacts, if you feel so inclined.
 
[X] Fortify and Negotiate - Set up shop at the exit to the Street and communicate with the government from there. Try to get a good deal, but leave the option of retreating open if things seem suspicious or fall through entirely
 
Taure - The Fruitful Negotiations
[X] Fortify and Negotiate - Set up shop at the exit to the Street and communicate with the government from there. Try to get a good deal, but leave the option of retreating open if things seem suspicious or fall through entirely

---

The Fruitful Negotiations

Ahead of Dorian and his companions stood a riot platoon, soldiers with metal coffin shields and guns. The settlement of Oasis, it seemed, had received an advance warning of their coming and set up a bulwark in anticipation, despite their swiftness in returning. They were also noticed, most likely on infrared visors, and ordered to step forward on a megaphone. Dorian recognized the voice of the speaker as that of Lieutenant Veronica Carrasco, the dour and succinct woman in charge of the resettlement zone.

The Street wasn't far - it was practically right through the soldiers. They approached while staying in relative cover within the forest's foliage, slowly.

"Dorian," whispered Andrei, "Their armor, shields, and rifles aren't magnetic. It seems they've prepared countermeasures. One of team four must've croaked and they had enough time to print out new equipment. On the upside, their gear isn't as advanced as the standard power armor set. The standard here is non-powered carapace."

Dorian mulled over this new fact. He didn't especially like the implications, as if the Command's troopers were readied to counter their own supernatural capabilities, this implied a rather heavy expectation of hostilities. "How about their bullets?"

"It's hard to say. I cannot test without risking an accident."

He nodded slightly. "If they're metal, be ready to scatter them."

"I understand."

Although Dorian didn't have the Webweaver anymore, some habits never died, and certain masks were worn deeper than any other. Adorned with the Theater Child's mien, he stepped forward out of the foliage and affected grandeur in every motion, cloak pinned over the shoulders of his armor. He calmed himself artificially.

"Lieutenant Carrasco," Dorian called out with a deferential nod. "Are you acting here on behalf of the Orbital Command?"

Veronica Carrasco stood at the center of the formation in full armor. She didn't humor the question, instead answering with an unimpressed statement, "Mr. Croft, to be frank, I haven't trusted you ever since you lied to one of my subordinates. But I'm sure if you come along quietly and explain under a lie detector test, we'll figure something out of all this." Her hand was resting on a handgun, holstered on her hip. Within her eyeball, the small homunculoid creature seemed to stir, as if preparing for combat.

"Ah, well, trust is a difficult game to play. What I can offer you instead is an incentive to act in good faith with us."

"It's clear you haven't acted in good faith since the beginning."

"Lieutenant, I swear I meant no harm," he answered with a steady voice, "To explain, me and my compatriots are interstellar travelers. However, we have very limited knowledge of where we'll end up each time we travel. We acted in our own interest since we didn't entirely understand how your society works. We appreciate our independence as individuals - however, we're willing to deal with you on open terms, now that the cat's out of the bag. We can help each other."

As he explained, Dorian listened carefully to the words of his earbuds.

'Veronica. How dull it must've been to run so much, to run so far, and still end up stuck.'

'Lieutenant Carrasco. She loves her soldiers like a family. She obeys the Orbital Command like a child obeys a stern parent.'

"I have strict orders to apply maximum caution when dealing with you. We'll consider your offer, naturally, but it could take a while to process - this is the sort of decision committees make, and even if convened swiftly, they might not do it right this moment," the Lieutenant said. "I'd like more details I can pass onto my superiors."

"Of course. Why don't you dismiss some of your men and we'll talk one on one?"

She stared at him as if he were planning a trick. The earbud voice confirmed a part of her was suspicious this could be some attempt to get near her in an attempt to exert control. Although Dorian could theoretically influence the woman's emotions with Viscerality, he doubted he was powerful enough to fully overwrite her volition. The most he could do, if he were so inclined, would be to sway her emotions to fall in favor with his request. Even so, he decided that remaining fair and peaceful here was better.

"Fine." She made a set of gestures and radioed something in, and the battalion of military officers dispersed, some of them getting into formation and marching into the settlement. Only a single squad remained, while Carrasco walked out of the formation, meeting Dorian quite literally halfway. "We can talk here."

"I'm sure you've received news from Slandon."

"I've received lots of news from Slandon. Be more specific," she ordered curtly. Then, as if rethinking the stern approach, added, "Please."

"Among our capabilities is the creation of new land. It's not easy or fast to do this, and it is somewhat costly, so we cannot do this constantly and everywhere - but we can truly create more, and we can set the variables by which it operates. Immunizing such land against the forest's spread is doable. We could make this entire settlement you have here spiral out into a city of its own. Do the same to agricultural centers, or whatever else you need, make farms into megafarms. Creation of matter is simple enough and even simpler is transmutation, so if your Command requires fossil fuels, metals, or other limited resources, we could manufacture that for you in high quantities."

"I'd want more exact numbers than 'high quantities.' We're running a refugee state here, Mr. Croft, not a backwater tribe. The ledgers need to check."

He nodded affably. "My friend, Dr. Musorov, can fill you in on the details. I'll also offer you an explanation of our other capabilities as a team, such as my ability to craft relic masks with idiosyncratic supernatural powers. I'm sure they'll catch on here."

She stared at him, then after a moment, nodded. The creature inside her eye twitched.

"There was another matter," she said. "Your 'interstellar travel.' I have no doubt my superiors will ask about it. Tell me more."

"I'm afraid it's a method we cannot share with you. Not because we don't want to, but rather because we actually can't. Otherwise, please believe me, I would not have hesitated to grant you this boon in the slightest." He considered how much more to reveal, and decided it'd be harmless to inform her dimly about the Street. It could even help them if more Streetwalkers ever came here. Advance warning could result in better efforts at coordination, next time. "It's called the Street Where the Stones Speak. A causeway that spans multiple worlds out there, connecting them for a select few. It chooses who is allowed to step on it, we do not have a say."

"This is all a rather fascinating fairy tale, but I'm skeptical."

True amusement filled Dorian. She really thought he didn't believe himself insane to start with either? "Be skeptical if you wish then. You have my word as a noble son of Drethir that I am telling you the whole truth." Not that she understood the significance of such a statement.

"Very well, I'll pass this all up the chain of command." She looked at him warily. "Until then, you'll be staying in Oasis and we'll be keeping an eye on you."

"As long as we aren't under arrest, I don't find this objectionable."

She nodded and then led them inside.

It seemed, at least for now, everything had gone alright.

---

You've made a cautious and optimistic compact with the Orbital Command.

Here's the offer that Dorian shall receive:

In return for:
*Full commitment to expand outlined areas throughout their outposts in a manner designated for the entire month.
*Full commitment to crafting masks as requested for recovery teams and Orbital Command's researchers.
*Full commitment from Andrei Musorov to aid research, energy production and storage, and other efforts with his magic.
*Linneas can do whatever, but he's probably best assigned to support your craftsmanship efforts.

You'll receive:
*Your choice of Orbital Command's most valuable and powerful relics collected from Taure, some of them contained in secure vaults for their volatility. All but the most crucial to day-to-day operations will be made available; you're essentially buying them. You'll almost certainly find something useful here. Global teleportation might not be especially relevant for a Streetwalker at your attunement, but you could take an updating map that delivers you and your friends to wherever you tap a finger thrice a day, or a sword that attunes and 'learns' to fight opponents alongside its wielder, changing itself to slay their foes. These are only examples; the true list is exhaustive.

*A full supply of whatever standard (or even advanced) technology, manuals, and devices are considered commonly available on Taure. This includes an autolathe that can, if fed raw materials, produce new standardized equipment; the manuals you receive will allow Dr. Musorov to program in new items if you should encounter such a need in the future, although it'll take some training on his part once you're off Taure. Dorian will craft a miniaturist's mask to carry them onto the Street.

*Other forms of cooperation and considerations can be accommodated if you ask.

In short, you'll work for a whole month for a decent amount of pay-out.

[ ] Accept - What else is there to say? A month of labor in return for lots of powerful relics you almost certainly wouldn't have been able to acquire otherwise.

[ ] Refuse and Leave - You still aren't convinced, and if you don't like the terms, you'd better leave or they might try to poach you anyway.

[ ] Renegotiate - (Write-in amended terms.)
 
Do we get no Dwindlings to upgrade our Masks with?

Yeah this was, from my understanding, the entire reason we wanted to stay. If we get allowed to stay but have to spend 100% of our time and energy towards their endeavors, and in exchange we get crappy artifacts that haven't been boosted in any way, this is a truly terrible deal.
 
[X] Renegotiate: Seeds of Royalty
-[X] Forgo valuable relics of Taure; instead ask for veneration. Have army push their PR to paint you as true sovereign
-[X] Argue for partial mana and mask crafting time split(i.e. 30 70, 20 80 etc). Craft Verdant Crown Mask, Webeaver, Storage mask and anti-Somber mask, then craft multiple copies of our masks for later trading purposes
-[X] With mana obtain Verdant Crown, then improve Artificer for faster crafting time, then our other masks and tools in sensible way

I think this is like infinitely better from value perspective and we still help them out a ton. The focus on Wood/Pawn ability is probably not the craziest thing, but it should be fun.
 
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[X] Accept - What else is there to say? A month of labor in return for lots of powerful relics you almost certainly wouldn't have been able to acquire otherwise.

Edit: I suppose I should extend on my thinking. I don't want to be some kind of absentee landlord/liege and have no idea how to harvest power of the king from these people without giving off absentee landlord/liege vibes.
 
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Man, instead of cool Kaiju hunt and interacting with the world and the magic system we are going to just peace right out of this world. That's actually so boring.

When's the last time we actually did something? Seeking out werewolf guy? Thread is so afraid of agency, its unreal.
 
[X] Accept - What else is there to say? A month of labor in return for lots of powerful relics you almost certainly wouldn't have been able to acquire otherwise.
 
Hmm, it says 1 month contract but we originally had an estimated time limit of 3 months on taure.
 
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Hmm, it says 1 month contract but we originally had an estimated time limit of 3 months on taure.
If it is just a 1/3 of our time here then that's not too bad I suppose. The two mentioned artifacts are fine, more so if we get to enhance them. Map fixes the need for travel/escape and we could use an actual supernatural sword to go along with CL. More importantly it means we get to look into Lieutenant/source of mana mystery.
 
[X] Renegotiate: Seeds of Royalty
-[X] Forgo valuable relics of Taure; instead ask for veneration. Have army push their PR to paint you as true sovereign
-[X] Argue for partial mana and mask crafting time split(i.e. 30 70, 20 80 etc). Craft Verdant Crown Mask, Webeaver, Storage mask and anti-Somber mask, then craft multiple copies of our masks for later trading purposes
-[X] With mana obtain Verdant Crown, then improve Artificer for faster crafting time, then our other masks and tools in sensible way
 
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