The Silver King (An ASOIAF Quest)

[Duesal]

Aaand our fears are confirmed. Great chapter, @Vocalist.

It's ironic to the extreme that we have to fight against House Stark as part of our goal to stop the Long Night.

 

[Mossconfig]

Fuck. Maybe we should cut them loose from the 7 kingdoms? Play up the xenophobic angle and make a power base out of the faith?

 

[Aramis]

Welp. He knows, which means the masters know that we are a product of the Others, rather than another type of Necromancy. So we can expect them to gather every bit of obsidian they can find.... Good thing that Dragonstone hasn't fallen. Still, they will no doubt spread this information, they have no reason to keep quiet about it. Especially since the awakening of the Others will have them conclude that this is an existential threat rather than "just" a civil war. I'm so glad that we aren't in the middle of a warzone right now.

 

[Elder Haman]

Yeah, nope on the fostering. We already have a Greyjoy fosterling, having multiples would give the impression we're favoring the Iron Islanders, which might push the Riverlanda away. On a personal note, you want to foster basically everybody, Elder. Rhaegar doesn't run a daycare.

Click to shrink...

Well, I would point out that actually taking in a lot of children to foster is exactly what we should do. Even more so now that we are going to be running the country instead of just the Crown Prince. Historically the royal court fosters many children of lords. Why? Because in a society which runs on personal relationships and oaths of fealty, this is about the only way to centralize power. It's also attractive to the Lords because it allows their children to be sent to a central location and build connections all over the country instead of just a single additional lord of a regional court. It's certainly not about gaining hostages, it's about cultivating loyalty in the next generation to our own heir. By having boys come and grown up around Ageon it means he will have a large group of friends from all across the realm. Similarly all the other lords are going to be happy about their son getting a chance to become closer to the heir.

The only group of lords that tends not to like this are those that are trying to cultivate a separatist culture for their own region. The regions most like this in Westeros are the North and the Iron Isles (because they have different gods) and Dorne (due to the distintive culture). Thus the fact that we currently have a Lord Greyjoy who actually wants his culture to assimilate with the royal court is all the more reason to strike while the iron is hot and get us some of his grandchildren to influence. He'd likely jump at the chance, and it would benefit the Riverlands greatly, since it would make the Ironborn less likely to raid them.

I fear that what is happening is that most players prefer to focus on shiny magic instead of the nuts and bolts of diplomatic governace, which in this setting is in fact fostering a large number of noble children. It's hardly any different from what Lord Doran is doing in Dorne with the Water Gardens, which is one of the reasons he has so much influence and control over his region.

A fire crackles in the hearth. "Father," a boy says. "It was the prince I dreamed about, the moment he died at the tourney. They said he never really died at all but – I saw that his eyes were blue, like one of the Others, or like the Night's Queen. I really saw that, not in a dream. And Lord Robert, Ned's friend, said that they once were violet. I think…I don't know what I should think."

"Perhaps you've been listening too much to Old Nan, Benjen," a man says. You can tell they are father and son. They share the same soft grey eyes.

Click to shrink...

Wow, so it sarted that far back. No wonder Benjen wasn't here.

The boy scrambles off then, and the man is now speaking with another – a man in gray robes, crumbling herbs into hot water. "Grave news, my lord," the second man says. The steam of the herbs, noxious and confusing, drifts up around his fingers.

"Is it about the prince?" His eyes are cooler now, harder. No longer mist, but stone.

"How did you guess? Well, Pycelle is insisting that his dismissal was a sham, that Prince Rhaegar was dead without a doubt when he examined him."

"And you're inclined to believe this, instead of the claim that he simply made a mistake?"

"Such mistakes do happen, but they are rarely made by people with extensive medical training. And one doesn't become Grand Maester by being an idiot. My colleagues believe him."

"And so your explanation for how Prince Rhaegar is still walking and talking is…"

"Necromancy. The reanimation of the dead. One of the very blackest arts, it defies the Stranger himself. The question is, who exactly is responsible? It's possible the prince himself is something of a victim in this, that someone seeks to use him as an undead puppet. My colleagues are investigating as we speak."

"So dark forces are trying to take control of the Iron Throne?" His eyes narrow.

"As Lord Paramount, I think you should have some ability to counter them. Shall we leave the political battlefield to you and your allies? A deep pity about your daughter – I never guessed she would do something so…outrageous."

The lord is struck by realization. "My daughter. My daughter has gone to Dragonstone with that man, to serve as his Kingsguard."

"Really? Do you think she would spy for us?" The lord answers with a glare, and the excited maester quails.

Click to shrink...

Heh...

He is not mollified. "If your memory is failing you so that you cannot remember your own stories properly, perhaps I should ask the Green Men to send me a new advisor. A young woman, who can nurse my grandchildren without giving them nightmares."

"Oh, take pity on me, m'lord," she laughs. "Bring in as many young women as you want, gods know I cannot feed a babe anymore, but take pity on me. Would you throw out the woman who nursed you at her breast? At any rate, 'tis good you came tonight. I have news I must share, grave news."

"Strange, Walys said the same." Her expression goes sour. "I know you dislike each other, but I find you both useful. What do you have for me?"

"News, from the Greenseers to the Stark. The Others are no longer asleep – perhaps they never were, but merely biding their time, searching for a moment to strike. Well, they've found what they were looking for. A fire has been snuffed out in the lands of men, and replaced with a heart of ice. This unliving blossom shall grow and grow and try to shadow all of Westeros under its wings. The future is now filled with visions of ice and war. A Second Long Night is coming."

Click to shrink...

Old Nan... a greenseer. It makes so much sense.... so then... why isn't Lord Stark listening to the Three Eyed Raven? I really wish now that we had tried to persuade Lord Stark.

"Hard to say. The Greenseers didn't know yet, the messenger told me. Looking into the future is not easy, you know."

"A fire replaced with ice," he mutters, and then gives a dark grunt. "I told you Walys and his Foundation were useful. Nan, tell me again of the Night's King. Tell me truly, without changing a single detail."

Click to shrink...

Although... it appears Lord Stark is well aware of the Foundation and their hostility to magic. I wonder if he knows that Walys already poisoned a King?

Fuck. Maybe we should cut them loose from the 7 kingdoms? Play up the xenophobic angle and make a power base out of the faith?

Click to shrink...

Counter-productive, we want the North and House Stark strong so that we can support them in preparation for the Long Night.

Welp. He knows, which means the masters know that we are a product of the Others, rather than another type of Necromancy. So we can expect them to gather every bit of obsidian they can find.... Good thing that Dragonstone hasn't fallen. Still, they will no doubt spread this information, they have no reason to keep quiet about it. Especially since the awakening of the Others will have them conclude that this is an existential threat rather than "just" a civil war. I'm so glad that we aren't in the middle of a warzone right now.

Click to shrink...

Doubtful that they will spread it beyond those already sympathetic to their cause. Does suggest to me that we really do need to crush the Foundation when we reach Oldtown. We might have been able to negotiate with Lord Stark if not for them.

 

[Lab_Accident]

I fear that what is happening is that most players prefer to focus on shiny magic instead of the nuts and bolts of diplomatic governace, which in this setting is in fact fostering a large number of noble children. It's hardly any different from what Lord Doran is doing in Dorne with the Water Gardens, which is one of the reasons he has so much influence and control over his region.

Click to shrink...

You're thinking about absolute Monarchies, that existed on the Late Middle Ages. Absolute Monarchy is strongly tied to nation-states, mercantilism, and the rise of the bourgeoisie. Meanwhile, Westeros runs on Early-and-High Middle Ages' Feudal Monarchy, where the political power was based on land-based nobility, and the King was "merely" the highest noble around. The Middle Ages are actually a period spanning nearly a thousand years, so they had lots of distinct phases.

It's all about armies, you see. When the King was just the biggest noble, his ability to project force wasn't much greater than that of his bannermen, so he depended on them to rule. In that setting, the authority of the King was mostly based on goodwill, tradition, and cultural unity.

However, nobles liked to charge tolls, and the merchants who travelled between fiefdoms didn't like that, so eventually they decided to throw their weight (and money) behind the King, so the King actually had the money ro train professional armies instead of peasant levies and his force peojection capabilities far outstripped his bannermen's. In that setting, nobles from all over sent their children to the King's court hoping to kiss up to him, because at that time, if the King didn't like you he could easily remove you.

The Targs sit at a weird place between these two because for the longest time, they actually had the ability to project military force, not based on armies, but on dragons. However, you'll notice Westeros practically has no bourgeousie, and nobles prefer to keep their eldest close to home, so they may actually learn to rule the lands they'll have to defend, keep that home-field advantage and all.

So you'll find that no, we're not playing the Quest wrong, you're simply a tad mistaken on exactlt what kind of monarchy we're running. I believe we've had this conversation before, but I hope my more in-depth explanation this time cleared up any remaining doubts.

 

[Stardust&Scotch]

...okay, so all those in favour of recreating Rickard Stark's OTL fate?

I'm not even entirely kidding anymore. He's never going to be brought to heel or made to serve. Even if we sent him to the Night's Watch, he'd try to mobilise that as a force against us instead of the real threat beyond the Wall. He needs to go, as does Walys. Walys, though, he needs to go slowly, and in a manner that ensure maximum information extraction. We might need to hire a Bolton for that...

 

[Elder Haman]

You're thinking about absolute Monarchies, that existed on the Late Middle Ages. Absolute Monarchy is strongly tied to nation-states, mercantilism, and the rise of the bourgeoisie. Meanwhile, Westeros runs on Early-and-High Middle Ages' Feudal Monarchy, where the political power was based on land-based nobility, and the King was "merely" the highest noble around. The Middle Ages are actually a period spanning nearly a thousand years, so they had lots of distinct phases.

It's all about armies, you see. When the King was just the biggest noble, his ability to project force wasn't much greater than that of his bannermen, so he depended on them to rule. In that setting, the authority of the King was mostly based on goodwill, tradition, and cultural unity.

However, nobles liked to charge tolls, and the merchants who travelled between fiefdoms didn't like that, so eventually they decided to throw their weight (and money) behind the King, so the King actually had the money ro train professional armies instead of peasant levies and his force peojection capabilities far outstripped his bannermen's. In that setting, nobles from all over sent their children to the King's court hoping to kiss up to him, because at that time, if the King didn't like you he could easily remove you.

The Targs sit at a weird place between these two because for the longest time, they actually had the ability to project military force, not based on armies, but on dragons. However, you'll notice Westeros practically has no bourgeousie, and nobles prefer to keep their eldest close to home, so they may actually learn to rule the lands they'll have to defend, keep that home-field advantage and all.

So you'll find that no, we're not playing the Quest wrong, you're simply a tad mistaken on exactlt what kind of monarchy we're running. I believe we've had this conversation before, but I hope my more in-depth explanation this time cleared up any remaining doubts.

Click to shrink...

You seem to be denying our agency to change anything.

My point is that we want to encourage centralization. That benefits us. Fostering children benefits us. We have lords who are willing to foster their children with us, and you are saying "no, no, we can't do that it will upset the nobles." But it's not upsetting the nobles, they want it, but you are insisting that we can't do it because... I don't know why? You keep changing your arguments. It's clear you don't want to do it, but you keep on making excuses as to why we should. First you say it's because it waste our time on babysitting. Then you say it will anger the nobles, despite there being no evidence of that, and we even have WoG that it would be an honorable offer (though not one that will always be accepted).

It's like you are deliberately choosing to keep us locked into being a weak monarchy and are refusing to make choices that will make us a strong monarchy.

I don't get it. Why do you want a weak monarchy when we are the monarch?!

...okay, so all those in favour of recreating Rickard Stark's OTL fate?

I'm not even entirely kidding anymore. He's never going to be brought to heel or made to serve. Even if we sent him to the Night's Watch, he'd try to mobilise that as a force against us instead of the real threat beyond the Wall. He needs to go, as does Walys. Walys, though, he needs to go slowly, and in a manner that ensure maximum information extraction. We might need to hire a Bolton for that...

Click to shrink...

What? Did you even read the update? He's opposing us because he's worried about the Others. The update suggests that we might actually be able to work with him, and your response is to think we ought to murder him and thus alienate Lyanna and Ned, and ensure we have to fight the entire North and subjugate them in a massive war that will destroy the North's ability to fight for a generation and thereby hand the Others exactly what they want?

Why are you so insistent on killing people when doing so harms our own interests?

 

[Lab_Accident]

...okay, so all those in favour of recreating Rickard Stark's OTL fate?

I'm not even entirely kidding anymore. He's never going to be brought to heel or made to serve. Even if we sent him to the Night's Watch, he'd try to mobilise that as a force against us instead of the real threat beyond the Wall. He needs to go, as does Walys. Walys, though, he needs to go slowly, and in a manner that ensure maximum information extraction. We might need to hire a Bolton for that...

Click to shrink...

I mean, Rickard isn't even wrong. He put 2 and 2 together and got 4. Only Rhaegar's never been very good at math, so he got an odd response. If we explained everything to him, he might (might) be useful on the Wall, prepping the Wall for a fight and looking for the Horn.

He's good, and he's motivated. We just have to point him in the correct direction.

 

[Lab_Accident]

You seem to be denying our agency to change anything.

My point is that we want to encourage centralization. That benefits us. Fostering children benefits us. We have lords who are willing to foster their children with us, and you are saying "no, no, we can't do that it will upset the nobles." But it's not upsetting the nobles, they want it, but you are insisting that we can't do it because... I don't know why? You keep changing your arguments. It's clear you don't want to do it, but you keep on making excuses as to why we should. First you say it's because it waste our time on babysitting. Then you say it will anger the nobles, despite there being no evidence of that, and we even have WoG that it would be an honorable offer (though not one that will always be accepted).

It's like you are deliberately choosing to keep us locked into being a weak monarchy and are refusing to make choices that will make us a strong monarchy.

I don't get it. Why do you want a weak monarchy when we are the monarch?!

Click to shrink...

Because, Elder, fostering everybody is not actually how you build a strong monarchy, that is how you mantain a stable weak monarchy. You build a strong monarchy through superior firepower. AKA Dragons. AKA Magic.

As to fostering, I'm not opposed to fostering anybody, I am opposed to fostering everybody. Why am I opposed? Because a fostering is supposed to be a reward, or an enticement. We offer it to people so they feel they are closer to the King than everybody else. However, if you just hand it out like a party gift, it quickly loses significance and stops working as an enticement.

Warding is supposed to be like foster parenting, not a lodge. You think the King will have the time to actually educate a dozen different children? No. It'll just look like we're careless and don't respect the practice of warding. And besides, when the brats grow up and you get a Riverrun love dodecahedron (and that shit WILL happen), we're the ones who will have to figure that shit out.

Make no mistake, in a place like Westeros, allowing a noble's daughter to get with bastard from another noble's son that the first noble just so happen to hate, is grounds for war. Maybe not on us, but we'll be expected to solve it, and pay reparations.

 

[Stardust&Scotch]

I mean, Rickard isn't even wrong. He put 2 and 2 together and got 4. Only Rhaegar's never been very good at math, so he got an odd response. If we explained everything to him, he might (might) be useful on the Wall, prepping the Wall for a fight and looking for the Horn.

He's good, and he's motivated. We just have to point him in the correct direction.

Click to shrink...

My thing is that, even if he's 'good', it's highly unlikely he'll ever be swayed from this course. Anything we say to him is (in his mind) suspicious at best, the poisonous whispers of the Others at worst. Short of an utterly miraculous diplomacy roll, I suspect he'll be against us to his dying breath. And, on closer reading, I wonder which is closer to the truth - that he not only knows about but condones and even supports the Foundation...or that Walys is pulling an Iago and playing Stark like a fiddle. Either way, he's a far bigger problem than a mere belligerent in this war, and now we know that much.

 

[A_Somebody]

As to fostering, I'm not opposed to fostering anybody, I am opposed to fostering everybody. Why am I opposed? Because a fostering is supposed to be a reward, or an enticement. We offer it to people so they feel they are closer to the King than everybody else. However, if you just hand it out like a party gift, it quickly loses significance and stops working as an enticement.

Warding is supposed to be like foster parenting, not a lodge. You think the King will have the time to actually educate a dozen different children? No. It'll just look like we're careless and don't respect the practice of warding. And besides, when the brats grow up and you get a Riverrun love dodecahedron (and that shit WILL happen), we're the ones who will have to figure that shit out.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I kinda really agree with these two paragraphs. The more fosterings we offer, the exponentially less worthwhile they are. I mean we could always just expand the court in general and have more courtiers around with only a few select special people being part of the inner circle. But canonical ly, KL's court is actually kinda small and not really effectual at giving goodies or influence to anything outside its direct sphere of influence. Like on another board someone noted its actually kinda strange to see the Tyrell's and Lannisters get so obsessed with getting their "blood" on the throne when having influence in KL doesn't really seem to do a lot for the family. Oh sure there's like Kingsgaurd and Small Council positions but thats what, like 15 positions? And also in Canon pre civil war the LPs for each region, except for the Stormlands, just kinda seems to be doing its own thing separate from KL, no major benefit or detriments.

 

[Vocalist]

Honestly, I kinda really agree with these two paragraphs. The more fosterings we offer, the exponentially less worthwhile they are. I mean we could always just expand the court in general and have more courtiers around with only a few select special people being part of the inner circle. But canonically, KL's court is actually kinda small and not really effectual at giving goodies or influence to anything outside its direct sphere of influence. Like on another board someone noted its actually kinda strange to see the Tyrell's and Lannisters get so obsessed with getting their "blood" on the throne when having influence in KL doesn't really seem to do a lot for the family. Oh sure there's like Kingsgaurd and Small Council positions but thats what, like 15 positions? And also in Canon pre civil war the LPs for each region, except for the Stormlands, just kinda seems to be doing its own thing separate from KL, no major benefit or detriments.

Click to shrink...

The oddly small size of the King's Landing court can probably be attributed to Martin simply having an upper limit on the number of characters he wanted to keep track of (and really, with all the named characters in these books, you can't ask the man to do more). On that note, go easy on me too!

And I disagree with anyone who says getting a family member on the Iron Throne never helped anyone - from the Hightowers during the reign of Viserys I to the Martells during the reign of Daeron II to the Lannisters during the reign of Bobby B, the royal consort's family has historically benefited quite a lot.

 

[stuckunderwater]

My thing is that, even if he's 'good', it's highly unlikely he'll ever be swayed from this course. Anything we say to him is (in his mind) suspicious at best, the poisonous whispers of the Others at worst. Short of an utterly miraculous diplomacy roll, I suspect he'll be against us to his dying breath. And, on closer reading, I wonder which is closer to the truth - that he not only knows about but condones and even supports the Foundation...or that Walys is pulling an Iago and playing Stark like a fiddle. Either way, he's a far bigger problem than a mere belligerent in this war, and now we know that much.

Click to shrink...

True, but we need to not antagonize the baby Starks -> right now, it looks like Brandon/Ned/Lyanna are on our side or at least not hostile towards us (based on these visions, Benjen is a lost cause). If we can sit him down in a room post-war with us and the Three-Eyed Raven and lay it all out, we might be able to sway him to at least be neutral, especially if we can get a pact of fire back via Nenya.

Also, does Stark know that the Foundation plotted to kill the dragons? He seems to think they have good will towards humanity, but dragons are potentially the best defense against the Others, and that might be a piece of information that could sway him if he doesn't know all the Foundation details.

 

[Swedish15]

Oh my, an informed, skilled opponent.

Oops, we have a problem. A really bad one. excellent chapter, Vocalist, but now what?

 

[Vocalist]

Hey guys, I'm afraid I won't be able to update this weekend. We're still understaffed at work and I'm getting slammed with extra hours. So, instead, have this unfinished scene I wrote a while back as a way to characterize the minor knights in Rhaegar's employ. You can consider it semi-canon.
---
Jon Connington sighs into a mug of undrinkable beer. Urri Greyjoy had talked up this dark, salted "sailor's beer" to him, convinced him to try it, and it was vile. Fucking Iron Islanders were all whacked in the head if they thought this stuff was any good. Here he is, in a Derlyn tavern, trying to make casual conversation with the new knights – Rhaegar wants to know if they are spies or secret cannibals or anything like that – and he can't even get drunk. It's a deep, powerful vintage of self-pity he's swilling instead, tonight.

Well, at least until he can hail a barmaid and get another drink. But, y'know. Self-pity. Ooh, maybe they'll all be too skittish to talk to him? On one hand, Rhaegar will be disappointed, but on the other, he won't have to make friendly with a passel of strangers and idiots.

"Oh, can we sit here?" Jon looks up into the annoyingly cheerful face of Daevon Drace. So much for that hope. He nods. "Great. Hey, everyone, I found a table!" Drace, Bywater, Sphinx, and Flowers pile into chairs around him. He can't decide if the gods are being merciful or cruel.

"You sure look glum, Ser Connington," says the perky dragonseed. "What's eating at you?" Every other knight at the table winces.

"Lord," Myron Sphinx whispers, elbowing him.

"What? Sorry, it's a bit loud in here."

"Lord Connington."

"Oh, you're a lord?" Drace says to Jon. "I didn't know a lord could be serving someone else as master-at-arms. Where are your lands?"

"Seven hells," Bywater says, and palms his face. Jon grits his teeth. He's just a lowborn sellsword with no education. Rhaegar would be patient with him.

"I know what always cheers me up when I'm feeling low," Ser Sphinx says hurriedly, before Drace can say anything else offensive. "Light conversation. Does anyone have any good topics? What about romance. Are there any nice ladies in your life, Bywater?"

Bywater's blush, if he has one, may be hidden by the dim and smoky light, but the way he contracts like a turtle going into its shell makes its existence probable. "…no," he says in a small voice, staring at the table. Jon doesn't miss Ser Sphinx's little smirk.

"I have a lady in my life. A most passionate and puissant woman," Ser Gyaume declares. "At night, I dream of her fiery red hair and the strength of her kisses." Silently, Jon rolls his eyes. Reachmen.

"That sounds lovely," sighs Drace. "What's her name?"

"Jirel of Joiry," he answers. Jon takes notice. He actually recognizes that name.

"That's the woman who jousted at Harrenhal," he recalls. "You unhorsed her. And then challenged her to a duel. Twice. Didn't she refuse to face you?" Gyaume bristles.

"I just need to win her love!" he complains. "She'll never agree to marry me if she doesn't respect me, and I don't know how to make that happen!"

"Do you make a habit of riding against women, Gyaume?" Bywater teases.

"Two women, Bywater, is not exactly much compared to all the men I've ridden against. Besides, I think today has shown that the women who do ride are not to be taken lightly." He sighs, then, a lovesick sigh, and stares soulfully at nothing. Jon dearly hopes that he never acted this way about Rhaegar.

Oh, who is he trying to fool, he definitely did.

Meanwhile, the Dornish knight is showing the most initiative out of all of them, by leaning closer to Bywater and complimenting his performance in the melee that day. "It was a wonderful way to get your knighthood, wasn't it? You must allow me to buy you a drink, in celebration. You know, I hope we can be friends while we serve the prince together."

Bywater hesitates a bit before answering: "Why not? Call me Jace, then. That's what people call me." He's not unattractive, Jon supposes - tall and strong-jawed, with thick black hair. He had a scruffy hedgeknight's beard last time Jon saw him, but that has been trimmed and washed to something almost dashing for this evening. Sphinx, on the other hand, is short and weaselly, the classic little scheming Dornishman.

"I've actually met Joiry," Drace pipes up. "In Essos."

Flowers seems to take this as news of great import. "You have? You must tell me about her. What great deeds did she do? What are her favorite flowers?"

"She was just a guard for someone who considered hiring the Golden Company. She was too busy, y'know, guarding, so we didn't talk much."

"You served with the Golden Company?" asks Jon, alarmed. This, Rhaegar will want to hear.

"The largest and most well-organized sellsword group you'll ever find," Drace says proudly. "Ended up staying with them for seven years. Pyrrha and I made some good friends there. Rhae Saerynar herself was the one who painted my shield!"

 

[Elder Haman]

Interesting, well there is our in with the Golden Company if we decide to hire them.

Doing so would have some advantages. It would negate a threat, as why bother with finding a black dragon to serve if the red dragon will accept them and bring them home?

Also, I've been thinking that one way to help the Night's Watch would be to raise new lords on the Queen's Gift. Sworn directly to King's Landing perhaps, but delivering their goods and taxes to the support of the Night's Watch, and answering the Night's Watch's call in case of a threat on the Wall. It would also be a way to set some minders on Richard Stark, assuming we send him to the Wall and/or negotiate a peace with him.

So there would be a lot of lands to hand out to those that serve us. Plus there will probably be a few castles in the Crownlands and Riverlands that will need repopulating.

@Vocalist Don't worry I understand how work can make time for quests unavailable. Thank you for letting us know what was happening.

 

[Swedish15]

Real life can be cruel. Take care, and I believe we understand. Also, poor Ser Gyaume.

 

[Aramis]

Don't worry about updating as often, we have all had periods of crunch time, whether that be working or studying. Still, I appreciate that you gave us this insight into Jon's mind. It's interesting to see that he really is a pessimist in most aspects of his life, though one who knows himself all too well.

Well, at least until he can hail a barmaid and get another drink. But, y'know. Self-pity. Ooh, maybe they'll all be too skittish to talk to him? On one hand, Rhaegar will be disappointed, but on the other, he won't have to make friendly with a passel of strangers and idiots.

Click to shrink...

Welp, can't blame him for being an introvert, but it sure feels like we should have considered Jon as a character rather than a minion. He really is going to despise this war.

He sighs, then, a lovesick sigh, and stares soulfully at nothing. Jon dearly hopes that he never acted this way about Rhaegar.

Oh, who is he trying to fool, he definitely did.

Click to shrink...

Oh dude, you definitely had it worse. Besides, Gyaume never had to sleep in the same room or watch his crush get changed.

. Sphinx, on the other hand, is short and weaselly, the classic little scheming Dornishman.

Click to shrink...

HRM, there's that expected yet all-too-unfortunate Stormlander racism. Let's hope our wife teaches him to see past that.

 

[Modus_Tollens]

My theory is that either the Pact of Salt or some historical mutation gave the Iron Islanders the ability to just outright drink seawater without repercussions. A lot of mammals can. So it doesn't surprise me that they would put salt in goddamn everything.

Not that salting beer is unknown here. We don't do it much any more because we have consistently better quality hops but historically it was one of several overlapping tricks to make horrible beer passable. The Iron Islands is going to have the most shittastic beer south of the Wall, being effectively the Hebrides off Scotland during the Kingdom of the Isles period, so salting the hell out of it was probably the wisest move those guys ever made. I wouldn't want to try that stuff straight out of the cask.

Greenlanders are, of course, pampered as hell. Though I'll bet you a Reachman would look at Connington's best from Griffon's Roost and think you were drinking horse piss. There is a Horse Piss Theory of Relativity to be written out there.

HRM, there's that expected yet all-too-unfortunate Stormlander racism. Let's hope our wife teaches him to see past that.

Click to shrink...

Impossible as long as Oberyn exists somewhere in the timeline. Its a stereotype but one that gets reinforced ad nauseam.

Interesting, well there is our in with the Golden Company if we decide to hire them.

Doing so would have some advantages. It would negate a threat, as why bother with finding a black dragon to serve if the red dragon will accept them and bring them home?

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Honestly there are so few Targaryen... and soon to be one fewer... that I'd make a deal with the Blackfyres directly, such as still exist. Brothers are brothers and at this point the fight has long since passed the bounds of normal human stupidity and hydroplaned its way across the sea to Asshai.

 

[veekie]

Not that salting beer is unknown here. We don't do it much any more because we have consistently better quality hops but historically it was one of several overlapping tricks to make horrible beer passable. The Iron Islands is going to have the most shittastic beer south of the Wall, being effectively the Hebrides off Scotland during the Kingdom of the Isles period, so salting the hell out of it was probably the wisest move those guys ever made. I wouldn't want to try that stuff straight out of the cask.

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Good alcohol needs good agriculture, good yeast strains and experienced brewers.
Given the Iron Islands....

 

[Vocalist]

My theory is that either the Pact of Salt or some historical mutation gave the Iron Islanders the ability to just outright drink seawater without repercussions. A lot of mammals can. So it doesn't surprise me that they would put salt in goddamn everything.

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You know what? I like this. It's canon now. Info page on the Drowned God has been updated accordingly.

More culture shock for Urri.

Impossible as long as Oberyn exists somewhere in the timeline. Its a stereotype but one that gets reinforced ad nauseam.

Click to shrink...

A part of Jon's antipathy for Oberyn is just jealousy. He's spent most of his life paranoid about staying in the closet, struggling with unrequited love and fear and shame, never having much of a romantic life due to being too scared to come out to anybody - and along comes this dashing, handsome, annoyingly self-assured Dornishman who seemingly feels no angst at all and sleeps with whoever he wants. It's not fair.
(Maybe, a small voice whispers to him, all your misery is of your own making and you could have solved your problems by having a little more self-confidence from the start.)
Of course, they could have gotten past that, but then the incident at Rhaegar's wedding happened, Jon was a dick to Elia in a fit of drunken jealousy, and we all know how Oberyn hates people who are dicks to Elia.

Good alcohol needs good agriculture, good yeast strains and experienced brewers.
Given the Iron Islands....

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Why bother to brew good alcohol when you can steal good alcohol instead? The Arbor's just a short jaunt down the coast, it's like heading to the grocery store!

 

[veekie]

Why bother to brew good alcohol when you can steal good alcohol instead? The Arbor's just a short jaunt down the coast, it's like heading to the grocery store!

Click to shrink...

Mostly the alcohol doesn't keep well. Beer especially.

 

[Modus_Tollens]

Good alcohol needs good agriculture, good yeast strains and experienced brewers.
Given the Iron Islands....

Click to shrink...

I doubt that this would be an applicable reason here. They aren't just stealing the beer: They are stealing brewers and and farmers in the form of thralls.

They would have a fair bit of talent floating around, if not in sufficient numbers due to the fact that nobody can really be born as a thrall. Second generation Iron Islanders or those without real prestige to protect (looking at you, House Codd) probably still have their hand in such dishonorable trades.

You know what? I like this. It's canon now. Info page on the Drowned God has been updated accordingly.

More culture shock for Urri.

Click to shrink...

Well... huh.

Why bother to brew good alcohol when you can steal good alcohol instead? The Arbor's just a short jaunt down the coast, it's like heading to the grocery store!

Click to shrink...

Iron Islander bar-crawls would be the basis for legitimate legends, but the Arbor and such places are really tough nuts to crack. You can be pretty damn sure that any given bottle of Arbor Gold is going to be inside some fortified keep or great house, barring the occasional trip up to Oldtown via the most well patrolled strip of water west of Braavos.

I'd guess that 90% of Islander "raids" on such places are complete and utter bullshit. A longboat crew or whatnot sail in under the cover of darkness, proceed to buy out local stocks through the gold price, and then lie their goddamn asses off about it when they get back home. Who is to know? Its probably so common that you will see two different Islander crews "raiding" the same port at the same time, both whistling nonchalantly.

The remaining 10% being some idiot sixteen year olds who either die quickly or end up playing catburglar more than viking. They end up stealing things more or less blind and end up sailing home with a hold full of stupid in their ramshackle boats.

Big, and thus meaningful, raids take big up front investments by proper houses. When they hit something, they strip it to the bone.

 

[Vocalist]

[X] Offer him time. You can keep him close by you, and if he dies before his succession is secure, you could raise him. And if not (or if he's unsure) you'll have the best healers near you anyhow so his health would be well looked to.

"My lord," you say. "I understand your fears. There is something I can offer you, to assuage them. I have access to arts that can raise the dead." His eyes widen. "If you don't believe me, ask Gerion Lannister how he was able to cheerfully attend the trial of his own murderers. If you die before your succession is secure, and I am able to quickly reach your body, I would be able to…"

"By my Lord Beneath the Waves, what are you?" he mutters. He seems taken aback, to be sure. Astonished. But not horrified, or disgusted. A good sign. "I suppose…this is a gift. Yes, I'll take that offer. I assume I'll need to stick near you if I want to use it?"

You nod. "I don't think I could raise anyone who's been dead for more than a few days."

"Fine then," he says, surprisingly cheerful. He stands. "I've already had my bannermen start gathering their ships. The forces of the Iron Islands will be ready to sail to war in but a few days. How would you apply us, your grace?"

Choose one or two goals. Choosing two goals means the Ironborn will divide their forces.

[ ] Focus on raiding and harassing the Northern coast, as well as helping the Crannogmen hold Moat Cailin.

[ ] Quickly sail to the Crownlands and try to relieve your allies there. This will require doing battle with the Velaryon fleet.

[ ] Help transport Dornish troops up to the Crownlands.

[ ] Write-in

---

[X] Letter Writing Campaign
-[X] Write to Lord Martell, and tell him that we are assembling a fleet, and that we think traveling by water to be the best way to bring the Dornish forces into play. That way we can avoid entering the Stormlands, and hopefully keep them from joining the war.
-[X] Write Lord Redwyne and ask him to gather his fleet and sail to Sunspear to coordinate with Lord Martell in transporting Dornish forces up to the Crownlands by sea. Write also to Lord Tyrell, and ask him to confirm these orders and plans.

After the disaster that was Pinkmaiden, you in no way wish to invite aggression from the marcher lords. Besides, with the Reach and Iron Islands both behind you, you have the largest fleet in Westeros. You might as well use it. Lord Redwyne and Prince Doran both write back, confirming receipt of these plans.

-[X] Ask Baelor Hightower to write to Lord Hightower, and tell him to prepare for our coming with an Ironborn fleet, and to give us aid in all that we require (we are preparing for a confrontation with the Foundation, but without telling anyone that is what we plan).

Baelor's father writes back with a letter of welcome, wherein he politely entreats you to make sure the Ironborn behave themselves while in his port.

-[X] Lord Mooton, our regrets at the death of his brother and his father, and a promise to continue to send aid.
-[X] Lord Tywin: Inform him of the outcome of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy. Ask him to consider if he can relieve Maidenpool without endangering his other forces and plans. Keep him informed of the other offers we are making in the Riverlands, and in particular ask him to continue negotiations with the Freys.

-[X] Lord Blackwood - Tell them that the three eyed raven, a servant of the Old Gods, warned us of the King's madness in a vision. Ask them to call upon the Old Gods to determine if they have truly chosen the right side.

-[X] Lord Whent, asking them to hold Harrenhall in our name, and then join with Tywin when he reaches them. We hope for this war to end as quickly as possible so that Riverlands will not suffer greatly in the war.

William Mooton writes you back about his situation: the port is still open, as the king is keeping his fleets in the Crownlands, but the port alone cannot bring in enough food for the city to sustain itself. Hunger is beginning to grow. He estimates another two turns of the moon before he'll be forced to surrender to keep his people from starving.

Lord Tywin points out that Maidenpool is on the other side of the Riverlands from where he is, and furthermore he can't freely move if you insist on keeping negotiations open with half the river lords. However, two of those negotiations suddenly fall through, as Lord Whent writes you a regretful letter explaining that King Aerys has threatened the life of his brother Oswell if he continues to delay raising his banners, and proceeds to march with his sons to join Hoster Tully. The Blackwoods, meanwhile, write you curtly that the Old Gods do not issue orders to their followers, and certainly not orders that would inspire House Blackwood to dishonorably betray their liege lord. Subsequently, Lord Tywin starts marching east.

-[X] Write to Lord Sunglass and express our gratitude that he was able to retreat in good enough order to join with the Lords of Crackclaw Point. Ask that he send his ships south to Griffin's Roost to gather more men to ferry North. Urge him to continue to monitor the Tully forces at Maidenpool, so that if the forces there are reduced to deal with Tywin's forces he can relieve the siege. Priorities are as follows: 1. Preserve his forces as a threat in the Crownlands, 2. Relieve the siege at Maidenpool, 3. Take Rook's Rest.
--[X] Write to Lord Bar Emmon telling him that we will write Lord Massey and seek negotiations for the safe return of his family.
-[X] Write to Jon Connignton in Dorne, asking him to order his forces at Griffin's Roost to prepare to sail north when our Crownland ships arrive there. Also write the castellan at Griffin's Roost, so that they will know that Jon's orders are coming.
-[X] Lord Massey: We ask for promises of honorable treatment for our bannerman's family and any prisoners he has taken. In particular, considering the treatment of Lord Mooton by the KIng, we fear for them if they are transported to King's Landing. Seek to open negotiations for their release in such a way as to see what Lord Massey is interested in, and if he is open to changing sides.

Sunglass sends his ships to Griffon's Roost, and in the meanwhile interprets your orders to "Preserve his forces" as meaning he should stick with the Clawmen besieging Rook's Rest, as, he reasons, the safest place for an army is surely next to another, allied army. Lord Massey promises that the Bar Emmons will be treated well, and indicates that he will be willing to discuss ransoms after the war is done.

-[X] Pipers expressing our distress and dismay at the events that happened, and that we will investigate this breech of truce further when we are able to. Offer our promise of generous treatment if they honorably surrender.

The Pipers, with the encouragement of Lord Greyjoy, surrender to the Westerman forces under Lord Crakehall. He writes to you, stating that your squire is unharmed, and he can have him passed back through the Westerlands to join you at Oldtown or Sunspear.

-[X] Lord Mallister, thanking him for his support, telling him of the results of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy, and making whatever arrangements must be made to preserve this alliance. Also, attempting to arrange some measure of cooperation between Lord Greyjoy and Lord Mallister in supplying Lord Reed's forces at Moat Calin.
-[X] Lord Frey, regretting that we were not able to speak more at the wedding due to our forced early leave, we had hoped to talk to him and ask to take our namesake Rhaegar Frey as our squire. It grieves us that he has chosen to support the Mad King. Mention that House Reed has chosen to support us due to a dispute between it and Lord Stark, suggesting that it is sad when an overlord does not give a bannerman the respect and courtesy that he ought to. Drawing parallels in this to how Aerys has treated Tywin, subtly implying that House Frey suffers the same difficulty, and suggesting that Aerys cannot be trusted to reward leal service, but that we are different. Mentioning how we restored Brightroar to House Lannister, attempting to pay back the debts of loyalty our father refused to.

-[X] Lord Bracken - Ask for their support, subtly suggest that we might reward them if they can subdue the Blackwoods.
-[X] Lord Hawick of Saltpans: Express our dismay at the current events. We had hoped to discuss expanding the Trident river trade with Lord Tully after the wedding, including the chartering of Saltpans as a city. Ask for his support in the current war. Also ask him to use his marriage connection to the Freys to encourage them to support us instead of Aerys.

Lord Frey writes back, hinting that he could be convinced to change sides for the right incentive. By the way, if you win, what do you think of replacing the Tullys with some other Great House? You should choose a house that's supportive, numerous, rich, powerful, and has an awesomely defensible castle (that is actually two and a half castles)!

The Brackens might or might not have raised their banners for you, but it seems Lord Tully was aware of the possibility. He makes a personal visit to Stone Hedge, and when he leaves the Blackwoods and Brackens are marching alongside each other to meet Lord Tywin's host. Lord Hawick, too, proves unwilling to defect.

-[X] Lord Arryn: Avowing our innocence, and grieving for the madness of the King. Expressing gratitude to Hoster Tully for honorably keeping to guest right. Mentioning how impressed we are in how his fostering of Ned and Robert created good ties among the younger generation of houses, expressing our interest in Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, and Elbert, regretting that we were unable to spend time getting to know the younger generation of Lords. Asking that he at least wait on participating in this war until he has had the ability to consider the truth of the accusations made.
-[X] Write to houses in the Vale, urging them to advocate for a Great Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern the Vale

Lord Arryn, supported by the lords of the Vale, calls for a Great Council to determine the issue of the succession, King Aerys' capability to rule, and the accusations against Prince Rhaegar. Aerys writes back saying there will be no Great Council because everything he did has been within his power as king and the rebels opposing him are obviously evil and wrong.

-[X] Lord Roose Bolton: Depending on how old his son Domeric is, we might be able to compliment him on his son's harp playing, and suggest we would love to tutor him as our squire. Ask him to speak to the other Northern Lords in favor of calling a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to Lord Rsywell: Seek to persuade him to support a Great Council instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to other Northern houses, suggest that Lord Stark has been given ill council by Maester Walys who has biases due to his southern roots, disputes which have nothing to do with the Northern houses. Their loyalty to their liege lord does them credit, but he needs their wise council to counteract Maester Walys, and see that the needs of the North are not served by getting involved in southern disputes.

The Northern lords respond to your letters with either discouragement or silence. Oh well. It was worth a shot.

-[X] Write to Lord Baratheon, ask him to do what he can to try and intercede for our former squire Ser Lonmouth, at least to preserve honorable treatment. Perhaps the King would be willing to allow Lord Baratheon to judge Ser Lonmouth, as he is one of his bannermen. That way we would know that the trial would be justly performed, and not driven by madness and paranoia.
-[X] Lord Selmy: Ask Ser Barristan to write his kin and tell them of the King's madness. And then we should send a letter asking them to raise their banners and join the Tyrell host gathering at Highgarden.
-[X] Lord Swann: They are well acquainted with Ser Barristan, and they have a reputation for being cautious. Ask Ser Barristan to write them and tell them of the King's madness. And then we write asking them to counsel Robert Baratheon to be cautious and call for a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys and so avoid war. Suggest that as Robert has maintained his neutrality, that he would be the best host for this Grand Council.
-[X] House Lonmouth: Send them our grief at the imprisonment of their son and our friend. Point to the example of Lord Mooton as to the inability of the King to show mercy. Suggest that their best hope is if Lord Baratheon intercedes for them, but that we fear for the worst.
-[X] House Grandison: Thank them for their support, if they decide to gather their banners, ask them to gather at Griffin's Roost.
-[X] Write to other houses in the Stormlands, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern them.

Lord Baratheon tries, but the king refuses to release Richard Lonmouth to him. Your friend is still being held in the Red Keep, for now.

-[X] Ser Bonifer Hasty: Write to Ser Bonifer and tell him that we are concerned for the safety of our mother as the King's madness grows. Ask him to travel to King's Landing and to do all he can to ensure the safety of our mother.

The knight of Hasty Hall hears you and obeys. He is travelling to the capital now.

---

As all this is happening, ravens flying back and forth along the continent, you arrive in Oldtown with Lord Greyjoy and a fleet of Ironborn. Lord Hightower greets you, Baelor embraces his sisters, and Ashara takes you aside to quietly give you details on the Citadel, which is maintaining its usual wartime neutrality – on the surface at least, although Malora says worrying rumors against you are spreading through the Citadel and the city. In addition to the accusations that you tried to poison your father, some people are saying that you employ dark Asshai'i sorcerers, sacrifice children to strange and foreign gods for the continued fertility of your wife, murdered two maesters to cover up your deeds, and engage in sinful Dornish orgies with an astonishingly large list of people (including Ashara, Oberyn, Larra Blackmont, your squires former and current, and Jon Connington). Not many people truly believe the rumors, but they are influencing the view of you among the smallfolk and the maesters.

Oberyn – a bit annoyed at being summoned back to Oldtown so soon after being told to leave, and with his sister on the verge of childbirth too – arrived a few days before you did. He tells you that one of the maesters he befriended, Qyburn, is with Elia. According to Oberyn, this is someone who won't be "anxious" about treating undead patients. At any rate, you have a list of everyone Oberyn thinks is involved with the Foundation, an Ironborn army loyal to you in port, strong evidence of maester wrongdoing in the form of Gilliane's letters and Lyanna, Ashara, and Oberyn's testimony, and Lord Hightower's heir by your side. If you're going to deal with the Foundation, you might as well do it now, while you're here.

[ ] Write in a plan for dealing with the Foundation
[ ] Actually, they can wait until after the war. To Sunspear!

---
This is a long update, but I think half of the wordcount is from @Elder Haman 's letter-writing campaign. Sorry, but your diplomacy rolls were kind of bad this round. At least the Mallisters are still on your side?

Does anyone know how to add line breaks with the new platform update? I can't find the option.

Don't forget, two votes!

 

[Duesal]

Lord Arryn, supported by the lords of the Vale, calls for a Great Council to determine the issue of the succession, King Aerys' capability to rule, and the accusations against Prince Rhaegar. Aerys writes back saying there will be no Great Council because everything he did has been within his power as king and the rebels opposing him are obviously evil and wrong.

Click to shrink...

Wait. @Vocalist, no what? Do we get to write back to Arryn pointing out that Aerys is utterly unwilling to give us a fair trial for our supposed crimes?

Lord Baratheon tries, but the king refuses to release Richard Lonmouth to him. Your friend is still being held in the Red Keep, for now.

Click to shrink...

At least Robert tried. I really hope we don't end up having to fight him. He'd be a nightmare on the battlefield. I can't stop thinking about Ruby Ford.

The knight of Hasty Hall hears you and obeys. He is travelling to the capital now.

Click to shrink...

Godspeed, Hasty. I hope you don't get burned.

It's a shame about the entire North being behind the Starks. I'm really not sure what to do there, especially if they've got dragonglass arrows specifically to murder us.