The Silver King (An ASOIAF Quest)

[Elder Haman]

You arrive on Pyke and the first item of business is, of course, more letters. Pinkmaiden, distressingly, was a disaster. It all started slowly – Urri went over to negotiate with them, they greeted him courteously but said that as long as Lord Greyjoy was neutral they would be neutral too. Too impatient to wait for word to come from the Iron Islands, Lannister negotiated a careful agreement that would let him move his army through Piper lands as long as Lord Piper's people and possessions remained completely untouched. This agreement was broken shortly thereafter, when a group of Lannister outriders allegedly had rocks thrown at them by smallfolk and responded by burning a village to the ground. Survivors made it to the castle, the enraged Lord Piper launched an attack on unsuspecting (but far more numerous) Lannister forces, and now the Piper lands are all on fire, your squire is a hostage in a besieged castle, and Tywin Lannister has moved on deeper into the Riverlands while leaving a small force behind to keep the Pipers penned in.

He promises that the commander responsible for burning that initial village was found and punished thoroughly.

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What the... how did such a disaster happen?

Meanwhile your bannermen tried to assault the forces besieging Maidenpool, but were rebuffed with significant losses. Sunglass's letter blames the Tully forces for being stronger than he expected, while Lord Mooton's letter politely implies that he is an idiot. At any rate, your allies retreated on their ships to Crackclaw Point, where they have joined forces with the Clawmen trying to assault Rook's Rest. Elsewhere in the Crownlands, Byrch Hall has fallen to forces loyal to you, while Lord Massey has taken Sharp Point (taking the family of Lord Bar Emmon hostage in the process).

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Ugh... well, at least it wasn't a total disaster. Though we need to be careful about Lord Bar Emmon. Perhaps we should write a letter to Lord Massey asking for terms of ransom?

In terms of good news, Howland Reed has successfully taken Moat Cailin. Northern Forces are not getting past the Neck without a serious fight, now. And Lord Mallister has agreed to block off Ironman's Bay to Northern ships – while warning you that if he sees any kraken flags in his waters, this alliance will be immediately called off.

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Good, we defiantely want the Ironborn to support him in this effort.

So, when you meet with Lord Greyjoy, you have a complicated situation to explain. Starting with your account of the king's madness and accusations, and ending with the disaster at Pinkmaiden.

He sighs. "I've been in contact with Lord Piper. His men are spent and he's clinging onto my son so Tywin Lannister won't storm the castle and put them all to the sword."

"And Tywin Lannister wishes he could leave this all behind," you continue. "He doesn't want to spend men unnecessarily on Pinkmaiden. It sounds like what would be best here is an honorable surrender and assurances of safety for Urri and all the Pipers."

Quellon Greyjoy tilts his head. "But of course, that would only happen if I declare for you in this war. Otherwise, I might expect my son's head to be shipped to me in a golden box."

"I wouldn't do that, my lord. I'm fond of the boy. And besides, that would only inflame you all against me. No matter what side you take, Urri will be more useful to me alive."

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Definitely need to write the Pipers, and see if we can win them to our side.

He sighs again, and goes to unlock his liquor cabinet. The two of you are in his solar, a stone room illuminated by a large, diamond-paned glass window. "You like Arbor Gold, yes?" He comes back with a bottle and pours two glasses, muttering, "Four-and-ten, he's growing into a man now. Did he really kill two men on his nameday?" You nod. "Good, good. His brothers were all proud when they heard that. You know, he's been writing us a great deal. I like it. It forces his brothers to improve their skill with letters as he does. 'No getting the maester to read it for you; if your brother can write it, you can read it.'" Greyjoy recounts, smirking.

"Has he written you about Anenue?" you inquire.

"He writes pages about Anenue. Everyone in the castle has strong opinions on her by now. His obvious infatuation with her has charmed all his brothers, and I think if he'd arrived with you they were planning to sneak the two of them out to be married by one of the Drowned Men. They were still in disagreement about whether she should be a salt wife or a rock wife, though."

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Good thing we didn't bring the two of them together. I actually suspected there might be trouble if we did. Though I didn't realize it would have been the amusing type of trouble.

You raise your eyebrows. "And what do you think of the match, my lord?"

He twists his mouth and shakes his head. "Foreign women don't often do well in the Iron Islands, for all that we bring them here. I married a Riverlands lady, but I made sure to choose a brave woman, a self-sufficient woman. I watched the sea princess as you walked in with her, as my sons approached her and sized her up. She has none of her mother's confidence. Even Urri knows her to be too delicate for this place, or he wouldn't have written me this," Quellon Greyjoy pulls a letter out of a drawer on his desk, "entreating me to be sure everyone treats her kindly. And giving detailed instructions on what food she'll eat." He sighs. "If I weren't already sure he was smitten, that would have proved it."

You quirk your head. "What do the Ironborn cook that doesn't involve fish?"

"Bread. Stewed greens. Beer. But I'll have the cook take the dried fish out of the porridge and the squid out of the seaweed soup. She'll not starve." He looks at you. "You think their marriage would be a good idea?"

"They like each other. I asked Anenue about it during the journey here, and she blushed furiously, before saying she'd abide by whatever I decided. Her mother won't care, she says. And," you remind him, "a marriage between my ward and one of your sons would be a fitting way to reward you for your aid in this war."

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Oh no, Urri's not for the the Iron Isle. I forsee us giving him land in the Stepstones to have. It's not like he's the eldest son anyways.

"Ah, yes, the war." He takes a long drink of wine. "Truth be told, I've been expecting something like this. The tensions have been rising for years. Only…I'm not the same man I was, last time we had a war. My fiftieth year is past. I'm a grandfather now. My sons are men grown." He gives a deep sigh, and stares into the wine in depression. "Nine sons, God has given me, from three wives. How can it be that not a one would make a good successor? I'm going to die soon, and I hate it."

"Not a one? Really?"

"Balon is strong, and a good sailor, and can command the loyalty of men. But by my Lord Beneath the Waves, I know he'll undo everything I've worked so hard to build. He scorns trade and coin, and listens to the most reactionary and bitter of the Drowned Men. He yearns for the days when we were the scourge and the fear of all Westeros – not knowing that the world has changed; it's moved on, and we need to move on too. Victarion is fearsome in battle, but he's far better at taking orders than giving them, and he follows Balon in all things. Euron…I'm not surprised someone decided to stab him. I don't know who it was, and I don't particularly care. Urrigon is good with people, but he's too trusting, and too young to command much respect besides. Aeron is just a reckless little idiot, although I hope he'll grow out of it. No, your grace, I fear what will happen when I die, and you should too.

"I like you, your grace. I think I'd like to work with you. It's not often the royal family takes an interest in the Iron Islands, and I intend to take advantage of that. But I wish you'd been born about ten years earlier."

You look at him with some sympathy. He's on the verge of declaring for you, you can sense. What he doesn't know is that you have a solution to his mortality problem. If you were to raise him as a revenant, the power of ice would preserve him, keep him from falling to the ravages of old age – and you wouldn't have to worry about your ally suddenly being replaced by his much less friendly son.

Of course, he might be utterly horrified and disgusted by the suggestion. So maybe you should just keep quiet.
[ ] Keep quiet
[ ] Offer to kill him and raise him as a revenant

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Interesting way around this problem. Unlike most others, an Ironborn would find a revenant acceptable. "What is dead may never die."

We'd need to present it in the right way though. And it would need to be a religious action.

So drowning, and then we raise him...

Otherwise we could take one of his grandsons as a ward. Instead of trying to fix this in Balon's generation, fix it in then next, meanwhile tray to bind Balon and Victorian to us enough that they will not backslide as badly as they did in canon.

Present it as an either or option.

Pyke has a maester: one of the many mainland innovations Quellon Greyjoy has tried to popularize among his people. While you are here, are there any letters you wish to send out?
[ ] Write-in

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Okay, let me go get my list. People we REALLY need to not miss the opportunity this time.

Maidenpool failing is a much bigger disaster. I was expecting our Crownlander forces to link up with the Lannisters.

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Maidenpool didn't fall, did it? I think that relieving the siege failed, but the castle didn't fall did it?

@Vocalist Can you clarify?

We could offer to drown him and then raise him. How religious is he, again?

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Yes... this is the best way to do it, secure religious backing of the Drowned Men too...

Also, question to the collective: should we be letting people know about the Stark ambush? Given how hard and fast we were riding, it's all but impossible that Stark men got ahead of us, so it stands to reason they were sent out there before Aerys' letter arrived. Not only is it a stretch to imagine a reason for that, let alone a non-nefarious reason, that leaves us to think that it's a sneaky, underhanded, dishonourable thing to do. It suggests he had ill intent towards us before anyone knew there was alleged reason to pursue us. And that could be effective in swaying the Arryns against Rickard (Jon Arryn is, according to many, the block off of which Ned is a chip) maybe some of the Northern lords (who also have pretences/notions of honour and decency) even Brandon & Ned if they're upset enough by their father's shenanigans. It might also help in swaying the neutral Riverlanders into allying with us, and belligerents into neutrality. Which we definitely want to start happening before Tywin burns the entire Trident to the ground.

What are peoples' thoughts on letter-writing and exposing Tricky Dick's actions against us?

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Premature. We can't prove anything yet, and it will be hard to convince people that something nefarious is going on. It will require more investigation.

@Vocalist I never did get an answer to my question about this previously? Did we arrange with Doran Martell to plan for a sea based transport of Dornish troops (to avoid crossing the Stormlands), and did we also arrange with Lord Tyrell and Redwyne to assemble and sail for Sunspear to provide that actual transportation?

 

[Elder Haman]

This is what I had previously for the massive letter writing section, it will need to be updated due to new events, but it can serve as a starting point for discussion. This is the part I am most open to changing, additions, or other things depending on feedback from others. I mean, I took a stab at starting it, but I don't feel diplomacy is my wheelhouse, so I'm more than happy to take any advice or ideas from other players. I'm particularly concerned about how to approach House Mallister.

[] Letter Writing Campaign

Riverland lords:

-[] Pipers giving them advance notice of Urrigon serving as our envoy, and urging them to support us so that this war will end swiftly, and with as little damage to the realm as possible. That we intend to gain the support of Quenton Greyjoy, though we intend for them to support us elsewhere and not in raids on the Riverlands
-[] Lord Whent, asking them to hold Harrenhall in our name, and then join with Tywin when he reaches them.
-[] Lord Mooton, our regrets at the death of his brother and his nephew, and a promise to send aid.
-[] Lord Mallister, expressing our hope to prevent harm from coming to the realm, our admiration for how House Mallister has defended the Riverlands from Ironborn raiders. That we are going to Pyke to treat directly with Lord Greyjoy, to ensure that the Ironborn do not take advantage of this time of chaos to raid the Riverlands. That military necessity requires us to close Ironman's bay to traffic from the Riverlands to the North. We may have to give that duty to the Ironborn, in which case we will allow no riverland ships past the Cape of Eagles, but we would prefer if we could entrust the bay to the hand of House Mallister who has traditional controlled those waters.
-[] Lord Frey, regretting that we were not able to speak more at the wedding due to our forced early leave, we had hoped to talk to him and ask to take our namesake Rhaegar Frey as our squire. It grieves us that he has chosen to support the Mad King. Mention that House Reed has chosen to support us due to a dispute between it and Lord Stark, suggesting that it is sad when an overlord does not give a bannerman the respect and courtesy that he ought to. Drawing parallels in this to how Aerys has treated Tywin, subtly implying that House Frey suffers the same difficulty, and suggesting that Aerys cannot be trusted to reward leal service, but that we are different. Mentioning how we restored Brightroar to House Lannister, attempting to pay back the debts of loyalty our father refused to.
--[] Entrust Lord Tywin with further negotiations with House Frey, he has the closest marriage ties to them after all.
-[] Lord Blackwood - Tell them that the three eyed raven, a servant of the Old Gods, warned us of the King's madness in a vision. Ask them to call upon the Old Gods to determine if they have truly chosen the right side.
-[] Lord Bracken - Ask for their support, subtly suggest that we might reward them if they can subdue the Blackwoods.
-[] Lord Hawick of Saltpans: Express our dismay at the current events. We had hoped to discuss expanding the Trident river trade with Lord Tully after the wedding, including the chartering of Saltpans as a city. Ask for his support in the current war. Also ask him to use his marriage connection to the Freys to encourage them to support us instead of Aerys.

Other Lords to encourage a Great Council (hopefully will decrease the speed and enthusiasm other lords will have in joining the King)

-[] Lord Arryn: Avowing our innocence, and grieving for the madness of the King. Expressing gratitude to Hoster Tully for honorably keeping to guest right. Mentioning how impressed we are in how his fostering of Ned and Robert created good ties among the younger generation of houses, expressing our interest in Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, and Elbert, regretting that we were unable to spend time getting to know the younger generation of Lords. Asking that he at least wait on participating in this war until he has had the ability to consider the truth of the accusations made.
-[] Write to houses in the Vale, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern the Vale

-[] Lord Roose Bolton: Depending on how old his son Domeric is, we might be able to compliment him on his son's harp playing, and suggest we would love to tutor him as our squire. Ask him to speak to the other Northern Lords in favor of calling a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys instead of getting involved in southern politics.

-[] Lord Selmy: Ask Ser Barristan to write his kin and tell them of the King's madness. And then we should send a letter asking them to raise their banners and join the Tyrell host gathering at Highgarden.
-[] Lord Swann: They are well acquainted with Ser Barristan, and they have a reputation for being cautious. Ask Ser Barristan to write them and tell them of the King's madness. And then we write asking them to counsel Robert Baratheon to be cautious and call for a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys and so avoid war. Suggest that as Robert has maintained his neutrality, that he would be the best host for this Grand Council.
-[] House Lonmouth: Send them our grief at the imprisonment of their son and our friend. Point to the example of Lord Mooton as to the inability of the King to show mercy. Suggest that their best hope is if Lord Baratheon intercedes for them, but that we fear for the worst.
-[] House Grandison: Thank them for their support, if they decide to gather their banners, ask them to gather at Griffin's Roost.

-[] Write to other houses in the Stormlands, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern them

See if we can get a friendly figure at court around our mother:

-[] Ser Bonnifer Hasty: Write to Ser Bonnifer and tell him that we are concerned for the safety of our mother as the King's madness grows. Ask him to travel to King's Landing and to do all he can to ensure the safety of our mother.

Other groundwork:

-[] Write to Lord Martell, and tell him that we are assembling a fleet, and that we think traveling by water to be the best way to bring the Dornish forces into play. That way we can avoid entering the Stormlands, and hopefully keep them from joining the war.
-[] Ask Lord Tyrell to write to his goodbrother Lord Redwyne and ask him to gather his fleet and sail to Sunspear to coordinate with Lord Martell in transporting Dornish forces up to the Crownlands by sea.
-[] Ask Lord Tyrell to write to Lord Hightower, and tell him to prepare for our coming (in roughly 5 to 6 weeks time), with an Ironborn fleet, and to give us aid in all that we require (we are preparing for a confrontation with the Foundation, but without telling anyone that is what we plan).

-[] Write to Kotar - Let her know that our current forces in the Narrow Sea are incapable of relieving the siege on Dragonstone. We will use them to try and draw off the King's forces elsewhere. However, we expect to arrive with sufficient forces to relieve Dragonstone within 3 to 4 months. Do all she can to hold Dragonstone until we arrive. Also say that we would not ask Islan to break his vows, but if there is anyway he can delay the enemy without breaking them we would be appreciative. Provide instructions to those reluctant Knights to obey Kotar as the castellan.

One idea I had that I haven't included is that we could hint to houses that have Targaryen blood (Tarth, Penrose, Darry) that they would have greater influence in any regency that might be declared. Might be worth trying, might accomplish nothing. But I didn't want to include it without some feedback from other players first.

 

[Vocalist]

Maidenpool didn't fall, did it? I think that relieving the siege failed, but the castle didn't fall did it?

@Vocalist Can you clarify?

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Maidenpool is not fallen yet, but they can't hold out for much longer.

question about this previously? Did we arrange with Doran Martell to plan for a sea based transport of Dornish troops (to avoid crossing the Stormlands), and did we also arrange with Lord Tyrell and Redwyne to assemble and sail for Sunspear to provide that actual transportation?

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Ah, no. Better include it in the letters section this time.

 

[Aramis]

Why vote for just Lord Stark? Info on the what Arryn and Baratheon are planning is also important. Don't want to suddenly get caught off guard by new armies entering the fight on Aerys' side.

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Because then the vision will be clearer and/or have more depth to Stark's actions, thoughts, etc... Basically, we want to know the greatest amount of info we can on him rather than an overview on every Lord Paramount.

 

[Duesal]

Maidenpool didn't fall, did it? I think that relieving the siege failed, but the castle didn't fall did it?

@Vocalist Can you clarify?

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Not fall, fail. The effort to lift the siege failed.

 

[Elder Haman]

Current vote and thoughts, will update letter writing section depending on comments and discussion.

[X] Visions: Varys

While getting information about the other lords is important, I think the most important player we don't know about is Varys. He's too important not to deal with, and yet we know so little about his true motives and any pressure points.

[X] Suggest three courses of action:
-[X] Point out that magic is returning to the world. He could submit to a drowning and then we could raise him, and that would buy him more time.
-[X] Arrange to foster some of his grandchildren with us. If his children will not rule as he wishes, then perhaps it would be wise to plan for the following generation.
--[X] We would also like to betroth Urri and Aenue, and perhaps at some future point provide him with a seat (we have had some thought about securing the Stepstones to prevent piracy).
-[X] Suggest that he join with us and send Balon and Victarion with us to lead the fleet as we sail around Dorne to fight the royal fleet. He would remain with the more measured and wiser men in the Iron Isles to support Lord Reed at Moat Calin, and keep the peace with Lord Mallister.

These three courses are complimentary but not dependent on each other. I think we should make the revenant offer, though it should definitely be done by drowning. By offering three courses, I think he will not feel as much pressure to accept the first one and can consider it more clearly. I doubt he'll be as horrified as a greenlander would be. We are setting up his grandchildren to be rewarded by us as well, similar to what is happening with Urri. After all, I think even Balon has to agree that the daughter of a Sea Dragon is a good match. The implication is that we would also make good marriage matches for his grandchildren. For example, maybe matching Asha with a Dornishman, etc. The way to get through to Balon is through his children. Make him see that obtaining the patronage of the Targaryens is a way to advance, tie that in with providing the ironborn with "honorable" combat that is also profitable (attacking the slavers of the Free Cities), and while he may not be as progressive as his father, he probably won't start raiding the Riverland or Westlands. Plus by having him travel with us, it gives a chance to work our charm on him.

[X] Letter Writing Campaign

Major strategy decisions:

-[X] Write to Lord Martell, and tell him that we are assembling a fleet, and that we think traveling by water to be the best way to bring the Dornish forces into play. That way we can avoid entering the Stormlands, and hopefully keep them from joining the war.
-[X] Write Lord Redwyne and ask him to gather his fleet and sail to Sunspear to coordinate with Lord Martell in transporting Dornish forces up to the Crownlands by sea. Write also to Lord Tyrell, and ask him to confirm these orders and plans.
-[X] Ask Baelor Hightower to write to Lord Hightower, and tell him to prepare for our coming with an Ironborn fleet, and to give us aid in all that we require (we are preparing for a confrontation with the Foundation, but without telling anyone that is what we plan). (This assumes that we gain Lord Greyjoy's support).
-[X] Lord Tywin: Inform him of the outcome of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy. Ask him to consider if he can relieve Maidenpool without endangering his other forces and plans. Keep him informed of the other offers we are making in the Riverlands, and in particular ask him to continue negotiations with the Freys.
-[X] Write to Lord Sunglass and express our gratitude that he was able to retreat in good enough order to join with the Lords of Crackclaw Point. Ask that he send his ships south to Griffin's Roost to gather more men to ferry North. Urge him to continue to monitor the Tully forces at Maidenpool, so that if the forces there are reduced to deal with Tywin's forces he can relieve the siege. Priorities are as follows: 1. Preserve his forces as a threat in the Crownlands, 2. Relieve the seige at Maidenpool, 3. Take Rook's Rest.
--[X] Write to Lord Bar Emmon telling him that we will write Lord Massey and seek negotiations for the safe return of his family.
-[X] Write to Jon Connignton in Dorne, asking him to order his forces at Griffin's Roost to prepare to sail north when our Crownland ships arrive there. Also write the castellan at Griffin's Roost, so that they will know that Jon's orders are coming.

Riverland Lords:

-[X] Pipers expressing our distress and dismay at the events that happened, and that we will investigate this breech of truce further when we are able to. Offer our promise of generous treatment if they honorably surrender.
-[X] Lord Whent, asking them to hold Harrenhall in our name, and then join with Tywin when he reaches them. We hope for this war to end as quickly as possible so that Riverlands will not suffer greatly in the war.
-[X] Lord Mooton, our regrets at the death of his brother and his nephew, and a promise to continue to send aid.
-[X] Lord Mallister, thanking him for his support, telling him of the results of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy, and making whatever arrangements must be made to preserve this alliance. Also, attempting to arrange some measure of cooperation between Lord Greyjoy and Lord Mallister in supplying Lord Reed's forces at Moat Calin.
-[X] Lord Frey, regretting that we were not able to speak more at the wedding due to our forced early leave, we had hoped to talk to him and ask to take our namesake Rhaegar Frey as our squire. It grieves us that he has chosen to support the Mad King. Mention that House Reed has chosen to support us due to a dispute between it and Lord Stark, suggesting that it is sad when an overlord does not give a bannerman the respect and courtesy that he ought to. Drawing parallels in this to how Aerys has treated Tywin, subtly implying that House Frey suffers the same difficulty, and suggesting that Aerys cannot be trusted to reward leal service, but that we are different. Mentioning how we restored Brightroar to House Lannister, attempting to pay back the debts of loyalty our father refused to.
-[X] Lord Blackwood - Tell them that the three eyed raven, a servant of the Old Gods, warned us of the King's madness in a vision. Ask them to call upon the Old Gods to determine if they have truly chosen the right side.
-[X] Lord Bracken - Ask for their support, subtly suggest that we might reward them if they can subdue the Blackwoods.
-[X] Lord Hawick of Saltpans: Express our dismay at the current events. We had hoped to discuss expanding the Trident river trade with Lord Tully after the wedding, including the chartering of Saltpans as a city. Ask for his support in the current war. Also ask him to use his marriage connection to the Freys to encourage them to support us instead of Aerys.

Other Lords to encourage a Great Council (hopefully will decrease the speed and enthusiasm other lords will have in joining the King)

-[X] Lord Arryn: Avowing our innocence, and grieving for the madness of the King. Expressing gratitude to Hoster Tully for honorably keeping to guest right. Mentioning how impressed we are in how his fostering of Ned and Robert created good ties among the younger generation of houses, expressing our interest in Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, and Elbert, regretting that we were unable to spend time getting to know the younger generation of Lords. Asking that he at least wait on participating in this war until he has had the ability to consider the truth of the accusations made.
-[X] Write to houses in the Vale, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern the Vale

-[X] Lord Roose Bolton: Depending on how old his son Domeric is, we might be able to compliment him on his son's harp playing, and suggest we would love to tutor him as our squire. Ask him to speak to the other Northern Lords in favor of calling a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to Lord Rsywell: Seek to persuade him to support a Great Council instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to other Northern houses, suggest that Lord Stark has been given ill council by Maester Walys who has biases due to his southern roots, disputes which have nothing to do with the Northern houses. Their loyalty to their liege lord does them credit, but he needs their wise council to counteract Maester Walys, and see that the needs of the North are not served by getting involved in southern disputes.

-[X] Write to Lord Baratheon, ask him to do what he can to try and intercede for our former squire Ser Lonmouth, at least to preserve honorable treatment. Perhaps the King would be willing to allow Lord Baratheon to judge Ser Lonmouth, as he is one of his bannermen. That way we would know that the trial would be justly performed, and not driven by madness and paranoia.
-[X] Lord Selmy: Ask Ser Barristan to write his kin and tell them of the King's madness. And then we should send a letter asking them to raise their banners and join the Tyrell host gathering at Highgarden.
-[X] Lord Swann: They are well acquainted with Ser Barristan, and they have a reputation for being cautious. Ask Ser Barristan to write them and tell them of the King's madness. And then we write asking them to counsel Robert Baratheon to be cautious and call for a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys and so avoid war. Suggest that as Robert has maintained his neutrality, that he would be the best host for this Grand Council.
-[X] House Lonmouth: Send them our grief at the imprisonment of their son and our friend. Point to the example of Lord Mooton as to the inability of the King to show mercy. Suggest that their best hope is if Lord Baratheon intercedes for them, but that we fear for the worst.
-[X] House Grandison: Thank them for their support, if they decide to gather their banners, ask them to gather at Griffin's Roost.
-[X] Write to other houses in the Stormlands, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern them

See if we can get a friendly figure at court around our mother:

-[X] Ser Bonnifer Hasty: Write to Ser Bonnifer and tell him that we are concerned for the safety of our mother as the King's madness grows. Ask him to travel to King's Landing and to do all he can to ensure the safety of our mother.

Write to Lord Massey about Lord Bar Emmon's family:

-[X] Lord Massey: We ask for promises of honorable treatment for our bannerman's family and any prisoners he has taken. In particular, considering the treatment of Lord Mooton by the KIng, we fear for them if they are transported to King's Landing. Seek to open negotiations for their release in such a way as to see what Lord Massey is interested in, and if he is open to changing sides.


I'm not the best at diplomacy, so I'd really like other people's thoughts and ideas here.

 

[Duesal]

-[X] Ser Bonnifer Hasty: Write to Ser Bonnifer and tell him that we are concerned for the safety of our mother as the King's madness grows. Ask him to travel to King's Landing and to do all he can to ensure the safety of our mother.

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This is going to end up with Hasty being offered up to a pyre of wildfire. Aerys already has reason to hate him due to him and Rhaella having an affair before the marriage.

 

[Elder Haman]

This is going to end up with Hasty being offered up to a pyre of wildfire. Aerys already has reason to hate him due to him and Rhaella having an affair before the marriage.

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I don't think they had an affair... just a doomed courtship of courtly love.

Would Aerys even know who Ser Hasty is?

The thing is we need someone at court whose mission is just to protect out mother, as we can't count on Aerys to do it.

 

[Temes1066]

Elder Haman's letter writing campaign seems solid to me.

 

[Duesal]

I don't think they had an affair... just a doomed courtship of courtly love.

Would Aerys even know who Ser Hasty is?

The thing is we need someone at court whose mission is just to protect out mother, as we can't count on Aerys to do it.

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Yes, Aerys would know who Bonifer is. The man wasn't exactly secretive in pursuing Rhaella's hand.

"According to Ser Barristan Selmy, Bonifer once wore the princess's favor in a tourney in which he defeated all challengers to name Rhaella his queen of love and beauty."

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He'll notice Bonifer pretty quickly and see him burn.

That said, I don't actually care about Bonifer, so feel free. He'll make a good pawn to distract Aerys at least a little bit.

 

[Elder Haman]

Elder Haman's letter writing campaign seems solid to me.

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Would you consider voting for it then? Last time nobody else voted on letters, so it didn't happen...

@Vocalist, when will the Reach and Dorne join in the war? Combined together they'll have the most men to leverage, but we really need them on the field sooner rather than later.

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Well, it will take us 3 weeks to reach Oldtown, and 1.5 weeks to reach Sunspear. While it will take Doran at least another two to three weeks to finish gathering his solders for war. Then Dorne either has to march through the Stormlands (a good way to make them join the other side), or go the long way round through the Reach (probably adding at least a month to their ability to join the war.

Maybe if the Redwyne fleet gathers and sails for Dorne immediately, then in about 3 weeks there will be a large fleet at Sunspear that can take the gathered forces around to Dragonstone (that should take another 1.5 weeks). So it's at least another month before the Dornish get into the war. My guess is at least another two weeks and maybe a full month before the Reach enters the war.

"How would you like immortality?"

The age old question every lord thinks of at some point. Quellon Greyjoy dying will be terrible for us.

Still, not something we can spring on him now, unfortunately.

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This is probably the most important decision for us to make now. For anyone else I wouldn't consider it, but for the Ironborn I think it is possible to raise the idea with them.

[X] Offer him time. You can keep him close by you, and if he dies before his succession is secure, you could raise him. And if not (or if he's unsure) you'll have the best healers near you anyhow so his health would be well looked to.

Does he know? Can probably guess from Gerion.

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[X] Offer him time. You can keep him close by you, and if he dies before his succession is secure, you could raise him. And if not (or if he's unsure) you'll have the best healers near you anyhow so his health would be well looked to.

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[X] Offer him time. You can keep him close by you, and if he dies before his succession is secure, you could raise him. And if not (or if he's unsure) you'll have the best healers near you anyhow so his health would be well looked to.

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Can I ask, how is this different from making the offer outright? I mean, we basically have to reveal our ability to raise the dead for this offer to make sense. So why not actually make the offer, and then have something like this as the back up suggestion if he doesn't want to make the leap of faith?

[X] Keep quiet

Haha, no.

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[X] Keep quiet

This is a weird thing to offer, even in a world of magic.
Definitely a bad idea.

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[X] Keep Quiet

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The Ironborn actually have a rite that is similar to this. A person is drowned in the sea, and then "raised" using resuscitation. So Lord Greyjoy probably won't be freaked out by the idea the way greenlanders would. "What is dead may never die, but rises again, stronger and harder."

If Lord Greyjoy does decide to do it, then it might actually increase his power and influence with the more traditional segment of the Drowned Men. If anything, giving a sign that they ought to accept this new way.

What do people think of the way I'm currently voting:

[ ] Suggest three courses of action:
-[ ] Point out that magic is returning to the world. He could submit to a drowning and then we could raise him, and that would buy him more time.
-[ ] Arrange to foster some of his grandchildren with us. If his children will not rule as he wishes, then perhaps it would be wise to plan for the following generation.
--[ ] We would also like to betroth Urri and Aenue, and perhaps at some future point provide him with a seat (we have had some thought about securing the Stepstones to prevent piracy).
-[ ] Suggest that he join with us and send Balon and Victarion with us to lead the fleet as we sail around Dorne to fight the royal fleet. He would remain with the more measured and wiser men in the Iron Isles to support Lord Reed at Moat Calin, and keep the peace with Lord Mallister.

This would basically make the offer, but frame it in a way that fits his religious worldview. While also providing some other ideas that would help him achieve his succession goals by less scorcerous means if he balks at the dying and being raised idea. I guess I could add he accompanying us as a backup in case he doesn't accept the offer outright. Basically the "offer him time" option, but as the backup instead of the initial offer. Although, I'd really like for him to stay on the islands as a way to keep a lid on the Ironborn, so they don't blow our alliance with the Mallisters.

You know, that's a point I think we've sort of skimmed over, the Mallisters have basically declared for us, which is pretty good news.

 

[Temes1066]

[X] Lords Paramount

[X] Suggest three courses of action:
-[X] Point out that magic is returning to the world. He could submit to a drowning and then we could raise him, and that would buy him more time.
-[X] Arrange to foster some of his grandchildren with us. If his children will not rule as he wishes, then perhaps it would be wise to plan for the following generation.
--[X] We would also like to betroth Urri and Aenue, and perhaps at some future point provide him with a seat (we have had some thought about securing the Stepstones to prevent piracy).
-[X] Suggest that he join with us and send Balon and Victarion with us to lead the fleet as we sail around Dorne to fight the royal fleet. He would remain with the more measured and wiser men in the Iron Isles to support Lord Reed at Moat Calin, and keep the peace with Lord Mallister.

[X] Letter Writing Campaign

Major strategy decisions:

-[X] Write to Lord Martell, and tell him that we are assembling a fleet, and that we think traveling by water to be the best way to bring the Dornish forces into play. That way we can avoid entering the Stormlands, and hopefully keep them from joining the war.
-[X] Write Lord Redwyne and ask him to gather his fleet and sail to Sunspear to coordinate with Lord Martell in transporting Dornish forces up to the Crownlands by sea. Write also to Lord Tyrell, and ask him to confirm these orders and plans.
-[X] Ask Baelor Hightower to write to Lord Hightower, and tell him to prepare for our coming with an Ironborn fleet, and to give us aid in all that we require (we are preparing for a confrontation with the Foundation, but without telling anyone that is what we plan). (This assumes that we gain Lord Greyjoy's support).
-[X] Lord Tywin: Inform him of the outcome of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy. Ask him to consider if he can relieve Maidenpool without endangering his other forces and plans. Keep him informed of the other offers we are making in the Riverlands, and in particular ask him to continue negotiations with the Freys.
-[X] Write to Lord Sunglass and express our gratitude that he was able to retreat in good enough order to join with the Lords of Crackclaw Point. Ask that he send his ships south to Griffin's Roost to gather more men to ferry North. Urge him to continue to monitor the Tully forces at Maidenpool, so that if the forces there are reduced to deal with Tywin's forces he can relieve the siege. Priorities are as follows: 1. Preserve his forces as a threat in the Crownlands, 2. Relieve the seige at Maidenpool, 3. Take Rook's Rest.
--[X] Write to Lord Bar Emmon telling him that we will write Lord Massey and seek negotiations for the safe return of his family.
-[X] Write to Jon Connignton in Dorne, asking him to order his forces at Griffin's Roost to prepare to sail north when our Crownland ships arrive there. Also write the castellan at Griffin's Roost, so that they will know that Jon's orders are coming.

Riverland Lords:

-[X] Pipers expressing our distress and dismay at the events that happened, and that we will investigate this breech of truce further when we are able to. Offer our promise of generous treatment if they honorably surrender.
-[X] Lord Whent, asking them to hold Harrenhall in our name, and then join with Tywin when he reaches them. We hope for this war to end as quickly as possible so that Riverlands will not suffer greatly in the war.
-[X] Lord Mooton, our regrets at the death of his brother and his nephew, and a promise to continue to send aid.
-[X] Lord Mallister, thanking him for his support, telling him of the results of our meeting with Lord Greyjoy, and making whatever arrangements must be made to preserve this alliance. Also, attempting to arrange some measure of cooperation between Lord Greyjoy and Lord Mallister in supplying Lord Reed's forces at Moat Calin.
-[X] Lord Frey, regretting that we were not able to speak more at the wedding due to our forced early leave, we had hoped to talk to him and ask to take our namesake Rhaegar Frey as our squire. It grieves us that he has chosen to support the Mad King. Mention that House Reed has chosen to support us due to a dispute between it and Lord Stark, suggesting that it is sad when an overlord does not give a bannerman the respect and courtesy that he ought to. Drawing parallels in this to how Aerys has treated Tywin, subtly implying that House Frey suffers the same difficulty, and suggesting that Aerys cannot be trusted to reward leal service, but that we are different. Mentioning how we restored Brightroar to House Lannister, attempting to pay back the debts of loyalty our father refused to.
-[X] Lord Blackwood - Tell them that the three eyed raven, a servant of the Old Gods, warned us of the King's madness in a vision. Ask them to call upon the Old Gods to determine if they have truly chosen the right side.
-[X] Lord Bracken - Ask for their support, subtly suggest that we might reward them if they can subdue the Blackwoods.
-[X] Lord Hawick of Saltpans: Express our dismay at the current events. We had hoped to discuss expanding the Trident river trade with Lord Tully after the wedding, including the chartering of Saltpans as a city. Ask for his support in the current war. Also ask him to use his marriage connection to the Freys to encourage them to support us instead of Aerys.

Other Lords to encourage a Great Council (hopefully will decrease the speed and enthusiasm other lords will have in joining the King)

-[X] Lord Arryn: Avowing our innocence, and grieving for the madness of the King. Expressing gratitude to Hoster Tully for honorably keeping to guest right. Mentioning how impressed we are in how his fostering of Ned and Robert created good ties among the younger generation of houses, expressing our interest in Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, and Elbert, regretting that we were unable to spend time getting to know the younger generation of Lords. Asking that he at least wait on participating in this war until he has had the ability to consider the truth of the accusations made.
-[X] Write to houses in the Vale, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern the Vale

-[X] Lord Roose Bolton: Depending on how old his son Domeric is, we might be able to compliment him on his son's harp playing, and suggest we would love to tutor him as our squire. Ask him to speak to the other Northern Lords in favor of calling a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to Lord Rsywell: Seek to persuade him to support a Great Council instead of getting involved in southern politics.
-[X] Write to other Northern houses, suggest that Lord Stark has been given ill council by Maester Walys who has biases due to his southern roots, disputes which have nothing to do with the Northern houses. Their loyalty to their liege lord does them credit, but he needs their wise council to counteract Maester Walys, and see that the needs of the North are not served by getting involved in southern disputes.

-[X] Write to Lord Baratheon, ask him to do what he can to try and intercede for our former squire Ser Lonmouth, at least to preserve honorable treatment. Perhaps the King would be willing to allow Lord Baratheon to judge Ser Lonmouth, as he is one of his bannermen. That way we would know that the trial would be justly performed, and not driven by madness and paranoia.
-[X] Lord Selmy: Ask Ser Barristan to write his kin and tell them of the King's madness. And then we should send a letter asking them to raise their banners and join the Tyrell host gathering at Highgarden.
-[X] Lord Swann: They are well acquainted with Ser Barristan, and they have a reputation for being cautious. Ask Ser Barristan to write them and tell them of the King's madness. And then we write asking them to counsel Robert Baratheon to be cautious and call for a Great Council to adjudicate the dispute between ourselves and King Aerys and so avoid war. Suggest that as Robert has maintained his neutrality, that he would be the best host for this Grand Council.
-[X] House Lonmouth: Send them our grief at the imprisonment of their son and our friend. Point to the example of Lord Mooton as to the inability of the King to show mercy. Suggest that their best hope is if Lord Baratheon intercedes for them, but that we fear for the worst.
-[X] House Grandison: Thank them for their support, if they decide to gather their banners, ask them to gather at Griffin's Roost.
-[X] Write to other houses in the Stormlands, urging them to advocate for a Grand Council instead of marching off to a war that doesn't concern them

See if we can get a friendly figure at court around our mother:

-[X] Ser Bonnifer Hasty: Write to Ser Bonnifer and tell him that we are concerned for the safety of our mother as the King's madness grows. Ask him to travel to King's Landing and to do all he can to ensure the safety of our mother.

Write to Lord Massey about Lord Bar Emmon's family:

-[X] Lord Massey: We ask for promises of honorable treatment for our bannerman's family and any prisoners he has taken. In particular, considering the treatment of Lord Mooton by the KIng, we fear for them if they are transported to King's Landing. Seek to open negotiations for their release in such a way as to see what Lord Massey is interested in, and if he is open to changing sides.

@Elder Haman, the letter you addressed to Lord Sunspear, should be addressed to Lord Sunglass. As Sunspear is a castle in Dorne, owned by the Martells; Lord Sunglass (Lord of Sweetport Sound) is the current commander of our forces in the Crownlands.

 

[Elder Haman]

@Elder Haman, the letter you addressed to Lord Sunspear, should be addressed to Lord Sunglass. As Sunspear is a castle in Dorne, owned by the Martells; Lord Sunglass (Lord of Sweetport Sound) is the current commander of our forces in the Crownlands.

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Thanks. Fixed. Poor Lord Sunglass, I always remember his name wrong.

 

[Vocalist]

You know, that's a point I think we've sort of skimmed over, the Mallisters have basically declared for us, which is pretty good news.

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Your letter to them - "Either you blockade Ironman's Bay, or I'll send the Ironborn to do it" - was clever but risky. The Mallisters are to the Ironborn as the Marcher Lords are to the Dornish. I actually considered writing a scene of the Mallisters receiving your letter and discussing it, but dropped it for lack of time. In summary:

Maester: So the prince sent this letter...
Minor Mallister 1: He's treating with the Ironborn? That's not going to go well for him.
Lord Jason Mallister: It might work. Lord Greyjoy's son is squiring for him.
Minor Mallister 2: It would be an insult to have Ironborn ships in our waters!
MM 1: Worse than an insult. They're totally gonna start raiding us while they're here. That letter is a threat.
MM 2: Grr. Well, we're not scared of Ironborn! We eat Ironborn for breakfast!
JM: Well, our knights can stand against them, but what about our smallfolk?
MM 2: Who cares about the smallfolk?
JM: I do, you idiot. Hmm...On one hand, there's loyalty to my liege lord...on the other hand, the king is probably insane and this war might be founded on false pretenses...
MM 1: I thought the prince was cool, but allying with the Ironborn? Who does that?
JM: I've decided. I'm going to ally with the prince, but let the record show that I am salty about this. muttering*Thinks he can threaten me with the fucking Ironborn, people are going to call me a coward, ugh

 

[Temes1066]

This might mean, we will have to find a way to reward Mallister, later.

Additionally, if we went ahead with our plan to place Quellon Greyjoy on the Small Council, we might have to give Mallister a spot, as well.

 

[Elder Haman]

Your letter to them - "Either you blockade Ironman's Bay, or I'll send the Ironborn to do it" - was clever but risky. The Mallisters are to the Ironborn as the Marcher Lords are to the Dornish. I actually considered writing a scene of the Mallisters receiving your letter and discussing it, but dropped it for lack of time. In summary:

Maester: So the prince sent this letter...
Minor Mallister 1: He's treating with the Ironborn? That's not going to go well for him.
Lord Jason Mallister: It might work. Lord Greyjoy's son is squiring for him.
Minor Mallister 2: It would be an insult to have Ironborn ships in our waters!
MM 1: Worse than an insult. They're totally gonna start raiding us while they're here. That letter is a threat.
MM 2: Grr. Well, we're not scared of Ironborn! We eat Ironborn for breakfast!
JM: Well, our knights can stand against them, but what about our smallfolk?
MM 2: Who cares about the smallfolk?
JM: I do, you idiot. Hmm...On one hand, there's loyalty to my liege lord...on the other hand, the king is probably insane and this war might be founded on false pretenses...
MM 1: I thought the prince was cool, but allying with the Ironborn? Who does that?
JM: I've decided. I'm going to ally with the prince, but let the record show that I am salty about this. muttering*Thinks he can threaten me with the fucking Ironborn, people are going to call me a coward, ugh

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That's pretty much what I was hoping for, since it was about the only way I could see to get both the Mallisters and the Ironborn on the same side. I figured this appraoch was better than the Mallisters learning about an alliance with the Ironborn after we make it. Though this means we might want to think more on how to address the Mallisters. Perhaps dropping the bit about helping supply Lord Reed?

What do other people think?

For one thing it means we probably can't count on the Mallisters to say... fight the Freys (or the Blackwoods), but at least they won't be fighting against us.

This might mean, we will have to find a way to reward Mallister, later.

Additionally, if we went ahead with our plan to place Quellon Greyjoy on the Small Council, we might have to give Mallister a spot, as well.

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We do need to think about how to reward the Mallisters. @Vocalist Does he have children, sisters? A brother/nephew who needs a castle?

As for putting Greyjoy on the Council, I tend to think that we might need to leave Quenton Greyjoy in the Iron Isles to keep a lid on the Ironborn. We'd probably be better choosing Redwyne (if we end up having to side against the Velaryons).

Also, there hasn't been any criticism of my letter. Considering how the details impact things, there are a few tactic I've adopted that should prehaps be discussed with some thought as to how it could go badly for us.

The first is a big one, I've proposed a Great Council, which if enough Lords call for, we might have to go through with. I consider this a relatively low risk plan, both because I find it unlikely Aerys will agree, and thus likely to result in more Lords joining us, or at least being unenthusiastic in fighting for the King, but also because even if it does happen, diplomacy is our strongest stat/ability. However, it might buy time for the North to mobilize and get involved. I still think it's the best, most low risk approach we can take in the Vale, Stormlands, and North, but there is that risk. For the Riverlands, as the primary battleground there is just no time to try that approach.

However, can anyone else think of why it would be a bad idea? Or some way that we ought to modify it?

The second is a more specific one. I've made an appeal to the Blackwoods based on the three-eyed raven and the Old Gods. This seems a moderately higher risk tactic, since it might be used by the Blackwoods/Maesters against us, but on the other hand I don't think it will hurt us that much, since they have already declared for the Tullys. Even if they bring it out, most lords will simply think we are making an appeal to the Blackwoods based on their own worship of the Old Gods, and not because they think we are an undead sorcerer ice lich thing.

Still, I'd like to know what other people think.

 

[Temes1066]

The first is a big one, I've proposed a Great Council, which if enough Lords call for, we might have to go through with. I consider this a relatively low risk plan, both because I find it unlikely Aerys will agree, and thus likely to result in more Lords joining us, or at least being unenthusiastic in fighting for the King, but also because even if it does happen, diplomacy is our strongest stat/ability. However, it might buy time for the North to mobilize and get involved. I still think it's the best, most low risk approach we can take in the Vale, Stormlands, and North, but there is that risk. For the Riverlands, as the primary battleground there is just no time to try that approach.

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I've given the matter some thought, they could be some potential stumbling blocks:

• Rickard Stark lead STAB shenanigans, to rally support for a King Bobby Baratheon, at such a council.
• The Lords Paramount demanding such a council, even after Aerys is deposed.

 

[Aramis]

[X] Elder Haman

 

[Duesal]

I've given the matter some thought, they could be some potential stumbling blocks:

• Rickard Stark lead STAB shenanigans, to rally support for a King Bobby Baratheon, at such a council.
• The Lords Paramount demanding such a council, even after Aerys is deposed.

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If that happens we're going to have a big problem with Rickard.

Out best bet is just winning the war. We win in the numbers game, with both the Westerlands and the Reach fighting on our side.

Calling for a Great Council is a good move to look innocent since it looks like we're not grasping for the throne, but like you pointed out it opens all heirs to the Iron Throne into consideration. Rickard seems determined to see us disinherited.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) the war has flared up in earnest. If we win, we don't have to consider the words of Rickard Stark. If we lose, we'll have bigger problems.

 

[Elder Haman]

I've given the matter some thought, they could be some potential stumbling blocks:

• Rickard Stark lead STAB shenanigans, to rally support for a King Bobby Baratheon, at such a council.
• The Lords Paramount demanding such a council, even after Aerys is deposed.

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Lord Stark could indeed try to do so, however, it would give us the chance to bring up a real regicide conspiracy that just happens to have the Regicide serving as Rickard Stark's Maester... which would likely undercut him greatly. Plus, Robert doesn't have a lot of interest in becoming King, and he's not married to Lord Stark's daughter.

As for demanding a Council after the war is won by us, I think we can stomp that out pretty quickly. Most Lords are not going to be impressed by a call to a Great Council after the war is over. During a war to prevent more bloodshed, sure, but afterwards to try and set aside the results of a war? Westerosi cultural norms does not favor fence sitters who try to snatch the victor's laurels once the war is over.

These are reasonable fears to bring up, so I'm glad to discuss them and consider if they are worth avoiding bringing up the issues. They seem manageable to me. Looking at it I still think that the benefits of hopefully making the North, Vale and Stormlands less enthusiastic about fighting in this war outweigh the risk. Do others think otherwise? Or that the risks are greater than my estimations?

On a different note, something we could try to dream about would be the Blackfish and Lysa, since that is a mystery we know of that might give us leverage with the Tullys. Especially if it might give us leverage with Catelyn, which would gives us leverage with Brandon.

 

[Duesal]

Lord Stark could indeed try to do so, however, it would give us the chance to bring up a real regicide conspiracy that just happens to have the Regicide serving as Rickard Stark's Maester... which would likely undercut him greatly. Plus, Robert doesn't have a lot of interest in becoming King, and he's not married to Lord Stark's daughter.

As for demanding a Council after the war is won by us, I think we can stomp that out pretty quickly. Most Lords are not going to be impressed by a call to a Great Council after the war is over. During a war to prevent more bloodshed, sure, but afterwards to try and set aside the results of a war? Westerosi cultural norms does not favor fence sitters who try to snatch the victor's laurels once the war is over.

These are reasonable fears to bring up, so I'm glad to discuss them and consider if they are worth avoiding bringing up the issues. They seem manageable to me. Looking at it I still think that the benefits of hopefully making the North, Vale and Stormlands less enthusiastic about fighting in this war outweigh the risk. Do others think otherwise? Or that the risks are greater than my estimations?

On a different note, something we could try to dream about would be the Blackfish and Lysa, since that is a mystery we know of that might give us leverage with the Tullys. Especially if it might give us leverage with Catelyn, which would gives us leverage with Brandon.

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Yeah, if we win the war and the losers try to demand a Great Council, we can summarily ignore them, and slam them with punishments for going against us. I am particularly eager to get back at Stark somehow. Literally the only thing holding us back is the fact that Lyanna is on our side.

 

[Stardust&Scotch]

Why vote for just Lord Stark? Info on the what Arryn and Baratheon are planning is also important. Don't want to suddenly get caught off guard by new armies entering the fight on Aerys' side.

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Because Arryn and Baratheon may or may not join in the war one way or the other, but that's less concerning than the fact that Rickard Stark either suspects or outright knows too much, and he has it out for us. We need to know what's going on there, what he knows or suspects, what his intentions are, and if there's ways we can turn the North/the rest of House Stark against him and Walys.

Short version: Jon Arryn and BobbyB are unknowns, but not belligerents. Unlike them, Rickard Stark is a threat. We should prioritise the threat, and see if there's any ways to neutralise the threat.

This might mean, we will have to find a way to reward Mallister, later.

Additionally, if we went ahead with our plan to place Quellon Greyjoy on the Small Council, we might have to give Mallister a spot, as well.

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My personal thought? Make Mallister our Master of Ships. I was also thinking maybe an Arryn of Gulltown, depending on how well the Arryns behave during this war, but rewarding Mallister is going to be important. Best to also have him at something he's qualified to do.

I've been thinking that, if we stack the Small Council with qualified people (but not necessarily people we trust) it would be good to have like an informal 'shadow council' so we are also hearing from people we trust completely, without politics & power plays getting involved - so for instance, Mallister as Master of Ships, but Urri is our Shadow Master of Ships, whoever is chosen as Grand Maester, and Oberyn as our Shadow Maester.

Can I ask, how is this different from making the offer outright? I mean, we basically have to reveal our ability to raise the dead for this offer to make sense. So why not actually make the offer, and then have something like this as the back up suggestion if he doesn't want to make the leap of faith?

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The difference is in context and follow-through. It's presented more as a "cheat death" option than as a "let me kill you but don't worry I totally can undo it" option. It also means if he jumps for it, great, if he's reluctant then he can still stick around us and have access to good healers (probably better than what the Iron Islands usually have) and maybe he'll change his mind later. I am super uneasy with being like, "well, I can murder your ass and then make you my undead bitch, sound good?", and would much rather present it as something we'll do (if he wants it) when he dies naturally, not immediately killing him ourselves.

Again, short version: the outright offer says "trust me, I totally can kill you and resurrect you", the write-in says "we'll give you the best care available while you're around and, if you want, bring you back the moment you expire on your own."

 

[Elder Haman]

Again, short version: the outright offer says "trust me, I totally can kill you and resurrect you", the write-in says "we'll give you the best care available while you're around and, if you want, bring you back the moment you expire on your own."

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Then wouldn't the modification of it to the "drowning and resurrection" be more of a nod to his religious beliefs, while allowing that we can confidently bring him back? Sort of something in the middle there? Avoiding the "trust me to kill you" trap, but still presenting it as an actual option instead of binding him to follow us and preventing him from being where we need him most?

 

[Stardust&Scotch]

I'd rather let him go there, than do it ourselves. Like, if we suggest it outright, it's suspicious and weird. If we lead him in that direction and he asks for it, well hey...

 

[stuckunderwater]

[X] Lord Stark.

[X] Offer him time. You can keep him close by you, and if he dies before his succession is secure, you could raise him. And if not (or if he's unsure) you'll have the best healers near you anyhow so his health would be well looked to.

For letter writing:

[X] Elder Haman's letter writing campaign