To be fair even your original plan was a long shot. Starting the equivalent of the French revolution from the equivalent of Sardinia with no preceding ideological build up in the rest of the world when the God of Change (including social change) is powerful and evil is going to have long odds whatever we do. I'm expecting the GM to fudge some canon-compliant reactions or we just get game over by massive mercenary army as soon as we poke our nose on the mainland.

As far as I know, however, a lot of people in the south don't care about chaos as much, mostly because all of the threats to the north serve as a shield so they can be busy getting into pissing matches over relatively normal things. I'm reasonably certain that if one of the city-states could have conquered Sartossa, it would have already. Sure, we don't have the fleet Sartosa had, but hopefully we can build that up, and then use that to thwart any attempt at invasion.
 
As far as I know, however, a lot of people in the south don't care about chaos as much, mostly because all of the threats to the north serve as a shield so they can be busy getting into pissing matches over relatively normal things. I'm reasonably certain that if one of the city-states could have conquered Sartossa, it would have already. Sure, we don't have the fleet Sartosa had, but hopefully we can build that up, and then use that to thwart any attempt at invasion.

  1. They have Chaos cults in the South and Skaven too who are a Chaos threat in their way
  2. As for the last part: the pirate Fleets were large and requiring a great deal infrastructure we just wrecked not to mention supporting themselves on constant raiding and slaving.
 
  1. They have Chaos cults in the South and Skaven too who are a Chaos threat in their way
  2. As for the last part: the pirate Fleets were large and requiring a great deal infrastructure we just wrecked not to mention supporting themselves on constant raiding and slaving.

1) And? They have chaos Cults and we're not going to be tripping that that much. And Skaven aren't our problem.

2) We're rebuilding that infrastructure, and we can rely on our fanatical citizens to people our navy, and hopefully do some trading (which IRL is actually something every society that did raids also did, because the two were actually both sides of the same coin and suck it George Martin you ignorant author! Oh, sorry, got off topic) in order to make enough. After all, we only have to have enough of a fleet to make it too much of a cost to attack. Tilean City-States are made of money, but the moment one turned towards us and paid out a lot of money to try to invade us, they'd be watching out for everyone else to stab them in the back.
 
As far as I know, however, a lot of people in the south don't care about chaos as much, mostly because all of the threats to the north serve as a shield so they can be busy getting into pissing matches over relatively normal things. I'm reasonably certain that if one of the city-states could have conquered Sartossa, it would have already. Sure, we don't have the fleet Sartosa had, but hopefully we can build that up, and then use that to thwart any attempt at invasion.

There was a massive war with vampires in Estalia. So it's not just normal things they fight.
 
Last edited:
[X] Yes, a woman can and should do anything a man can.
[X] 4 years, he can run for no more than 2 consecutive terms
[X] No, we must trust our People to think of what's right.


I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. Why would the commoners in other countries support us!? This is not 18th century Europe, Warhammer is at best at the level of 17th Century Europe with some key differences outside of the steampunk and magic. There is no decently large undercurrent of a democratic movement among the middle class intellectuals of society, for quite a number of reasons. First, there was no Athens and Rome in warhammer, there are no ancient examples of the successful implementation of democratic principles for the philosophers and intellectuals of the modern age to look back upon and idealize. There is no comfortably secured middle class that can wast their time and money drinking coffee and tea in saloons all day discussing philosophy, law, government and human rights. Hell there was no Magna Carta and human rights are not even a thing beyond what the local lord says they are. And there is no America across the sea existing as proof that such a thing can work in the modern era.

We would be the freakin first which is why most of the commoners in other countries would be against us. When other people look at us they don't see a shining city on a hill beckoning freedom, that concept doesn't exist yet in warhammer. What they see are buildings damaged by fire and fighting, blood staining the walls and streets and dead bodies hanging from street posts. The two things a government is suppose to provide for its people are not justice and fairness, its stability and security and we have done quite a bit of damage to the idea that democracy can give those things to the common peasantry and middle class merchants and craftsmen. The only ones thinking of democracies in warhammer are the radical free thinkers and radical free thinkers have never had many numbers or much power even in societies that aren't paranoid and superstitious of anything new and strange. The common people of the Old World aren't going to blame the nobles for oppressing them, they are going to blame us for pissing the nobles off. And we better hope that the GM was messing with us with the idea that the recent crack down on said radical free thinkers(thanks to us) is going to drive some to Chaos because then we have to go up against the religious right opposing our existence and further poisoning the common man's opinion of us.

And as for our citizen milltia's giving us an advantage in a fight? We live in Sartosa! We are basically a hybrid of Sicily and Tortuga, the only reason none of the other city states of Tilea has never conquered it was because all the pirates living there made it not worth the effort, pirates that are no longer there. Population wise, even before the fighting and the purges we probably had some of the smallest population of any of the Tilean city-states. Not that population numbers matter that much because Tilean's prefer to use all the money they get from trade to hire out professional mercenary armies rather then use less experienced and less well trained citizen soldiers. Money we don't' have and aren't likely to have seeing as we are now persona non grata to any potential trading partner in the Old World (outside of maybe Marienburg and Barak Varr) and have to spend what we do have on fixing our infrastructure, moving our native industry to something not based on the use of slaves and trying to get our military up to standard rather then being an armed mob. The scaven fighting is not going to last forever and we are in no shape to defend ourselves when it ends and that's a state we are going to be in for a while because we will run out of money from the lack of trade!

You want to know what my plan was? My plan was for us to keep our friggen heads down till we managed to rebuild everything, move past the slave industry and train up our military to something that wouldn't be a joke to any real professional group in the Old World. Once that was done, then we push into Luccini while using our diplo to make sure the rest of the world remains thinking that this is just Tileans being Tileans and not the harbinger of a massive social and political change in the Old World. We would have kept increasing our military, researched new technologies and convinced our enemies to quarrel amongst themselves while we storm in and sweep up what's left till all of Tilea was under our control. Once Tilea was under our control then we start some massive infrastructure, industry, educational and agriculture renovations to improve the economy and standard of living for the average Tileans and indept them to us and democratic rule. By doing this we would be able to show that yes a democratic republic actually works and is a viable form of government. That's when the symbol of a city on a hill comes in, that's when the talk of democracies and republics would hit mainstream among the common people of the Old World in a positive, pro-democracy manner. And by unifying Tilea we could claim successor ship to Myrmidia's empire and use that as casus belli for taking Estalia. After that the Border Princes, then the Bad Lands, then Araby, then quarantining Nehekara and turning the Southern Sea into a Sartosan lake. By the time any of the rulers of the Old World would have relized what our ambitions were, how big of a change we were causing and the ideas and concepts we were spreading, we would have been too powerful, large and entrenched for them to do anything about other then some diplomatic grumbles.

So yes, I am very very nettled that that plan got shot down in flames all the way at the start because SV has to go for the stupid and obsessively grudge holding dwarf option even when its a very stupid thing to do! Now creating a massive and powerful Republic able to enact actual change in the Old World looks less like something that was merely difficult and challenging but doable with some hard work and luck to what very clearly looks like the CK II version of trying to play Dark Souls, without the ability to come back from the dead.

If you're going to bitch at people for ruining your brilliant master plan, next time try telling people what your plan is before time and maybe they'll listen. Besides, you are massively overestimating the amount of hatred people have towards us. We aren't Revolutionary France, in that we aren't a large military power on the border of these other kingdoms. So the Empire will complain for a bit, but once we get the harbor up and running their merchants will come. In a few months most of the Old World will forget about us and go back to dealing with hordes of beastmen/skaven/greenskins/norscans or whatever threatens them right away. The Tileans aren't going to hire a massive mercenary army to curbstomp us, because that's expensive and they're still fighting another war with the Skaven which has turned into a meatgrinder siege which has probably exhausted a lot of the mercenaries available. And before you claim everything I say is false, I'll point out the numerous posts I've made where I've said the exact same thing and the GM has marked them insightful, so I think there's merit to my argument.

We have time to rebuild our island and get economically stable, and then maybe we can try some version of your plan. It isn't bad, I'll admit. Although I'll point out we don't need to conquer land directly for ourselves, we can just install friendly governments. That would probably make it easier to avoid looking like a threat as we expand, at the cost of more factionalism.
 
To be fair even your original plan was a long shot. Starting the equivalent of the French revolution from the equivalent of Sardinia with no preceding ideological build up in the rest of the world when the God of Change (including social change) is powerful and evil is going to have long odds whatever we do. I'm expecting the GM to fudge some canon-compliant reactions or we just get game over by massive mercenary army as soon as we poke our nose on the mainland.
I did say merely difficult and challenging but doable with lots of hard work and luck.

1) And? They have chaos Cults and we're not going to be tripping that that much. And Skaven aren't our problem.

2) We're rebuilding that infrastructure, and we can rely on our fanatical citizens to people our navy, and hopefully do some trading (which IRL is actually something every society that did raids also did, because the two were actually both sides of the same coin and suck it George Martin you ignorant author! Oh, sorry, got off topic) in order to make enough. After all, we only have to have enough of a fleet to make it too much of a cost to attack. Tilean City-States are made of money, but the moment one turned towards us and paid out a lot of money to try to invade us, they'd be watching out for everyone else to stab them in the back.
Unfortunately, virtually all our nearby trading partners all consider us persona non grata do to the whole reign of terror thing we pulled. That's also a reason why the rivals of any city-state that does attack us could very well wait till after they get confirmation of their rivals victory over us before attacking them when they are still weakened from the fighting. They really don't like us right now. We seem to be up there with the destro factions from what was talked about us.
 
Last edited:
  1. They have Chaos cults in the South and Skaven too who are a Chaos threat in their way
  2. As for the last part: the pirate Fleets were large and requiring a great deal infrastructure we just wrecked not to mention supporting themselves on constant raiding and slaving.


Skaven aren't a Chaos threat. They use warpstone from the chaos moon, but they don't worship the Chaos Gods, and they don't start chaos cults among the population.
 
Again, I don't see how that has that much to do with us. Unless we start saying that Vampires are people too and should be treated as our equals and given a nice big hug.

I was just saying the south is not untouched by the horrible things in the north.

Skaven aren't a Chaos threat. They use warpstone from the chaos moon, but they don't worship the Chaos Gods, and they don't start chaos cults among the population.

Wrong on both counts, The Horned Rat is a chaos god and the cult of the Yellow fang is a human cult that worships the horned rat.
 
Last edited:
And before you claim everything I say is false, I'll point out the numerous posts I've made where I've said the exact same thing and the GM has marked them insightful, so I think there's merit to my argument.

The GM also marked my post where I pointed out the issues of why you can't get proper trade as is and that Tzeentch would make a good patron god insightful.
 
Possible Sartosa gods:
Taal & Rhya- "Too many cities and complex 'sailing' machines. Destroy them all and live off the land!"
Pros: If we had lush forests and agriculture we could totally use those blessings
Cons: Primitive, anti-technology, likes things the OLLLLLD way

Manaan-
Pros: Island. Frigging Island. Living off the seas and whatnot.
Cons: May have issues with past of Sartosa. Strong anti-piracy preventing that when all the world is aligned against us. Worshiped by elves.

Simar-
Pros: War god. Highly respected.
Cons: Wouldn't help us at all against the Empire who are channeling the propaganda machine hard against us. Is firmly an Empire god.

Ulric- "Toss off those guns and wade into the enemy with your fists"
Pros: If we were complete primitives we might enjoy hitting enemies with our bare hands.
Cons: If we were complete primitives.

Morr- "You did WHAT with their bodies?"
Pros: Always nice to have a guaranteed nice afterlife and no necromancy bullshit.
Cons: We kinda.. yanno. And nobody really wants to be all gloomy death focused. Not really a fighting god either.

Verena: "You have no concept of true justice!"
Pros: Nice justice and learning focused goddess.
Cons: Married to Morr. We pretty much flipped her the bird with the dwarf. Reason and all is nice but we've shown we work more on emotions than logic.

Myrmidia:
Pros: Military and strategy goddess.
Cons: Strictures of Myrmidia: 'Act with honor and dignity.' 'Respect Prisoners of War.' 'Obey your betters.'

Shallya: "Monsters."
Pros: Goddess of healing and mercy. Always nice to have on your side.
Cons: 'Mercy'. Also involves childbirth. Remember that time we pardoned a dwarf for killing a babe in pregnancy?

Ranald: "Dammit people."
Pros: Trickery and deception. Loves to bring the mighty down low through intelligence and forethought. Probably would've loved us on a peaceful route.
Cons: Abhors violence of any kind. We kinda kicked the tyranny his protector aspect protected against into high gear.

The Lady: "Hahahaha. No, filthy peasants."
Pros: Super awesome magic!
Cons: Only for Bretonnian knights you foolish peasants! Enforces classes with a vengeance.

Khaine: "Yargleflargle murder."
Pros: We certainly have been doing a lot of what he wanted. Violence and war boosts. No worries about overpopulation.
Cons: Worshiped by the Dark Elves. Known as a god of murder.

Alluminas:
Pros: Hell if I know.
Cons: Hell if I know.

Arianka:
Pros: Won't ask for much. Being not active and all.
Cons: Won't do anything either.

Solkan:
Pros: Likely happy after Vengeance delivered unto the pirate lords. Fighting and all for glory.
Cons: Gods of Law tend more towards stability and their unchanging way. Might be working the vengeance of the pirates' families.

Horned Rat:
Pros: Maybe the blessings he bestows upon the Skaven?
Cons: Not likely to accept followers from others than Skaven. Dwarves wouldn't stand for it.

Tzeentch: "Such wondrous change. Keep at it."
Pros: Helpful Abilities. Possible allies. A god that's very pleased with us, especially if we manage to thrive and influence others. One of the most powerful gods in the world. Potential other abilities and aid if we gain favor.
Cons: Internal difficulties. Our negative reputation gets slightly worse. Sometimes unhelpful abilities.
 
By Gork 'n Mork, if you humies don let me inta da council, Oim gonna crump ya gud!

"...?"

Corze you didn't see moi at da oda meetings, Oim da purpul wun.

[X] Yes, a woman can and should do anything a man can.

Hur, hur, hur, you humies iz dead stoopid, cause deen uz getz 'alf da votes but weez gets all da votez cause Oim da only gurl ork.

"...?"

Wot? Of corze Oim a gurl, ya git! Lookit all moi frilly gubbinz!

"..."

Shaddup, Oi waz gettin' ta it. 'N Oim purpul all over, 'n purpul is a gurly one.

"..."

Oi said Shaddup!! Oi waz gettin ta dat too, ya git. 'N dis pretty fing dat goes swirly.

"..."

Corse itz kill't ya stoopid humie, uz eva seen a livin' skirt?

"..."

Shaddup, ya git, doz Chaoz Boyz don count.

[X] 4 years, he can run for no more than 2 consecutive terms

Cuz otha wiz da leader iz gonna take turnz wid iz friendz, 'n datz jus anuda king.

[X] No, we must trust our People to think of what's right.

Supa Sekret Poleez neva work roight, Oi should know. Wen Oi waz in Warboss Choppa'ead's WAAAGH!!!, da Boss painted me and a few of 'es boyz purpul an' told da gitz ta crump any nob who tried ta be da Big Boss. By da next morning, by Mork (or wuz it Gork?), we crumped a buncha da nobs and a grot. Da boss was dead proud o' us, 'n we all gotz squigpies.

Den, wen eva wun o' da boyz waz gonna challing, chellen, foight da Boss, da boy wuz found dead in iz sleep. We waz so sneaky dat dey didn't even know dat dey were dead til dey woke up. Hur, hur hur, dat wuz a laff.

We wuz so gud at it, dat we didn't haf ta kill dem afta a while. Da oda boyz wuz so scared dat dey did our jobs for uz. Den sum boy called 'Alf'ead killed a mekboy cuz 'n took iz shiny bitz, sayin 'e wanted ta foight da boss. Moi sneaky knowatz said dat 'Alf'ead woz tryin ta be a sneaky git, so Oi crumped im 'n took da shiny bitz. Hur, hur, hur, dat wuz dead funny.

But wun noight, da rest o' da nobz wuz tryin' ta be all sneaky loik. Dey wuz sayin dat da Boss was gonna kill dem all dead, so dey gotta kill da Boss first. Dey wuz right, cauze we waz da wuz purpul, so we waz da sneakiest. Afta we wuz don, we 'n da boss waz da only wunz left in da WAAAGH!!

"..."

Wot 'appened to da boss? Oh, da squiggoths got outta da pens cuz we killed da squig-tamerz. Dey couldn't foind uz, so dey ate da Boss.

So datz why havin Supa Sekret Poleez iz stoopid, 'cept if you getz ta be da Supa Sekret Poleez. Den itz a laff.
 
Last edited:
Why is there an orc on the council or for that matter, Sartosa?
Guards!!
OoC, but we voted
[] No, no one is perfect, this include elves, orks and dwarfs. We must expect and forgive the weaknesses inherent in the People.
Which mentions orks, so I'd guess that there is at least one representative of each race in the current council. Also, the Freebooterz are pirates, so I could see them being on Sartosa.

An explanation of what the ork says, that is somewhat IC, from a 'humie' council member's POV, : You see an ork who seemed to make it his (or apparently her, screw it, just refer to it as 'the ork') somehow life's goal to attach as much lace as possible onto the ork's armor. It's a lot of lace. A lot. Apparently this is the 'frilly gubbinz'.

The she? is most definitely purple, garishly so. The 'fing dat goes swirly' seems to refer to the armored kilt the ork is wearing. After hearing it referred to as a kilt, the ork mishears that as 'killed', and confirms it is dead, calling the armor a skirt.

A smaller ork (apparently this 'council member' at least has a 'sekret-ary') occasionally interrupts the larger one, who tells him to shut up repeatedly.
/IC from council member's POV

The story, although pulled outta my ass, reflects what happens in a witch hunt to some dubious degree of accuracy. But really, we need to get a handle on this vigilante justice, or we will end up in the Reign of Terror, with people accusing others of

Also, I don't know if a smart border prince would send a largely mercenary force to Sartosa, because if it is conquered, the mercenary leader will just set himself up as the king of Sartosa, and there is little a border prince could do to prevent this.

So what I think we should do is organize a trained (volunteer?) militia. This will give the violent members something to do besides root out heresycounterrevolutionaries. At the same time, it will boost our defense, while not costing to much besides armament supplies, because this wouldn't be anyone's primary job.

Finally, a use for revolutionaries that don't agree with our revolution: finance them fomenting a revolution in one of the places we target.
 
On the matter of religion, we probably already have one among the native Sartosan population, and the slaves that stayed probably worship whatever gods they came with. Based on geography, probably Myrmidia. And if she didn't do anything about the generations of slavers and pirates that ruled us, she probably won't do anything to us.
 
On the matter of religion, we probably already have one among the native Sartosan population, and the slaves that stayed probably worship whatever gods they came with. Based on geography, probably Myrmidia. And if she didn't do anything about the generations of slavers and pirates that ruled us, she probably won't do anything to us.

Yeah. I think my IC character, when I use them, will be a former Bretonnian peasant. Cause, you know, Laurent.
 
Freebooters are 40K dude.
Ah, got that wrong, but I am pretty sure there are ork pirates though, which is basically what I meant.

As to religion, crazy idea that probably isn't good, but complete freedom of religion, but with rules like: don't poison or sicken unwilling people (Nurgle), don't mess with people minds (Tzeentch), no murdering people, except worshipers of Khaine can kill worshipers of Khaine, etc.

A less crazy idea: Freedom of non-Chaos Religions (maybe add non-Khaine, idk).
EDIT: Non-Soldan (maybe Non-Chaos, Non-Law)? Thanks to @shenron

But I am not a fan of worshippng Tzeentch, cause I don't see it staying as a republic for long after we begin to worship him.
 
Last edited:
[X] Yes, a woman can and should do anything a man can.
We have broken the chains of iron and freed the slave. Now it is time to break the chains of the past and make them all equal.
[X] 4 years, he can run for no more than 2 consecutive terms
In this new Republic for the people we must have a leader to keep stability in the lands. But we also must make sure no one person becomes too powerful or we would make the chains we broke.
[X] Yes, it is ultimately to the benefit of the People and the Cause (upkeep starts at Turn 5)
In this difficult time we must make sure that we protect our people from those who wish ill of the Republic. We must be aware of the outside world who would make us slave to their will.
 
guys, you can win this game, just be prudent with your choices and think like the enemy or any 16th-18th century noble. All options have good and bad consequences, some have just more immediate and terrible downsides.

also, yes there are "orks" on the island but they are not really that "orky" due to years of servitude, almost all of them were former slaves that worked on the docks. There are also other more "exotic" species...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top