The Republic! (A Warhammer City State Quest)

[Qeqre]

It's from Knights of the Grail, by law the noblity are only able to tax things that have been witch have been grown or built by someone, like food or ore from mining. As the peasantry(specifically merchants) don't actually "make" money the nobility can't tax coin.

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Which is part of the reason Bretonnia has a pretty large merchant class. To whom they sell said food/raw materials to import said cannons.

Also, if a commoner has a valuable skill(like literacy or cannon maintenance)? That guy is going to be more useful. Bretonnia is a nation of inequality, why would they keep all commoners equal when they could give the more useful ones more rights comparatively to their peers(to make their peers hate them, drawing attention away from themselves).

Besides, don't their cities contain a fair number of foreigners(who are also exempt from taxation on account of being foreigners, unless they lack proof of being foreigners)? They may very well have (disenfranchised former) Nulner engineers working for them.

 

[bryanfran36]

Warhammer canon is only slightly better than the laughable thing that Blizzard calls canon.

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How WaaaghHammer canon is better than Blizzard with its End of Times and Age of Sigmar shit!?

 

[Night_stalker]

They may very well have (disenfranchised former) Nulner engineers working for them.

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Except I can't see many Nuln engineers coming to the land of wine and hatred of gunpowder.

 

[cokerpilot]

How WaaaghHammer canon is better than Blizzard with its End of Times and Age of Sigmar shit!?

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... actually yes even considering end times (Age of Sigmar is surprisingly consistent so far) time traveling wakyness and the need make the newest big threat and adventure cooler then the last as well thinking up newer reasons for it two factions to be at each others throat without making one faction clearly the villain really Fucks with the blizzards lore.

But we should probably stop with this line of dialog as this not the right thread for it.

Except I can't see many Nuln engineers coming to the land of wine and hatred of gunpowder.

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Money can be quite the motivation.

 

[Qeqre]

Except I can't see many Nuln engineers coming to the land of wine and hatred of gunpowder.

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Brets don't have a hatred of gunpowder. That's Ulricans.

Bretonnian Nobles just think ranged weaponry in general is dishonourable and most of the commoners distrust foreigners due to sheer isolation.

But the commoners are willing to use ranged weapons due to not being allowed to worship the lady so areas that have been exposed to the concept of gunpowder(i.e. the cities, which see a fair amount of trade) should not find much issue with using guns(especially since a larger population might lead to less inbreeding). Especially in the regions that oppress their serfs relatively less.

Also, Bretonnian nobles are pretty rich and less inclined to screw you over out of greed, unlike the Tileans or Marienburgers.

Not many doesn't mean "none" either. There must be some of them looking for work abroad/forced to leave Nuln for some reason/not liking the Empire.

It's against the law? The nobles are the law. They can and will poke holes in it to make a loophole to get a powerful fleet so they can continue their dreams of cavalry being something that will remain relevant into perpetuity.

Bretonnians aren't complete idiots is what I'm saying. If they want cannons? They can probably find a way to get cannons.

 

[bryanfran36]

Ah shit. Its kinda futile to argue. When in doubt, say these statements:

"DAMN YOU WARD!"

"FUCK YOU GAMES WORKSHOP! FUCK YOUR SKUB FUCK YOUR CANON FUCK YOUR EDITION AND FUCK YOUR PATRON TZEENTCH!"

There. Back to the game.

 

[shenron]

I actually had the sneaking suspicion that might be your source. That book was both written during the time period where GW was really into both self parody and dark humor, as well as being written as a warhammer fantasy role play adventure guide with the objective not to show a functioning society but to make an interesting environment to role play in as foreigners. The succeeded brilliantly, while that book can be used to give a glimpse into what their society might be like it should not be taken very accurate due to the prevalence of intentional self mockery and as an adventure setting not to mention how much of cannon has changed since then (I think it was released in early to mid 2006).

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That's not really an argument for not using it as a source, the book is still more canon than the 5th edition Brettonia that fans can't seem to forget about.

Ah shit. Its kinda futile to argue. When in doubt, say these statements:

"DAMN YOU WARD!"

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Ward didn't write Knights of the Grail...

 

[Imperious]

That's not really an argument for not using it as a source, the book is still more canon than the 5th edition Brettonia that fans can't seem to forget about.

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I don't really care that much for 5th edition. That said I'll note that the Dwarfs should also be having only two female births per a year in the entire old world according to some sources.

Though could you state which page you found that on?

 

[shenron]

I don't really care that much for 5th edition. That said I'll note that the Dwarfs should also be having only two female births per a year in the entire old world according to some sources.

Though could you state which page you found that on?

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Your one of the few who does, though.

I found it on Page 25, Merchants and Trade.

 

[butchock]

More Important NEWS these past Few Years that has become known as Fact to the Council:

Brettonia:

- The Errantry War in Mousillon: This has ended two decades prior the People's Revolt of Sartosa. Mousillion is now ruled by a former Grail Knight Turned Duke. So far the land is said to be free from the blight of vampires and other foul creatures.

- The Plague Knights Invasion: This occurred a decade ago and saw the King of Brettonia wounded by a weapon of Nurgle. Plague Knights and their Norscan allies invaded from the Sea of Claws and saw both the Brettonian and Norscan Navies and Veteran armies decimated. Gambert Rambert, along with champions from every dukedom (all were killed except for him) as well as several damsels, journeyed to Lustria to save the King. They succeeded in obtaining a cure, however, Gambert was later kidnapped by Dark Elves. (Note: Gambert Rambert being kidnapped by Dark Elves is known due to the stories told by the freed slaves and Amazon women.) House Rambert gained the King's Favor and rose so high in Brettonia that their reforms were backed by the King himself. The House's dizzying downfall though serves as a precautionary tale of trying to reach so high and the evils of educating the masses.

- The last Plague Knight army was destroyed a year before the People's Revolt.

- There are only 4 Brettonian Galleons left out of the original 8. The Brettonian Navy sometimes serve as corsairs to finance their supplies and other needs. The Navy is beholden to the merchants of L'Anguille due to their patronage, hence Brettonian warships often escort L'Anguille merchantmen to other parts of the Old World. (Note: Brettonian warships are Age of Sail equivalent)

- The Brettonian Navy buys their weaponry from Estalia, Tilea and the Empire. While Brettonia has a Naval Academy and tradition, politically, those that attended them are looked down upon by their land-owning brethren. Except of course, the noble families that produced the officers of said ships.


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AN: may add a few more snippets later. Can't find where I saved my notes. More nations like The Empire and Kislev coming later. Also this is the reason why the Norscans and their 'masters' are "quiet".

 

[masterofmadness]

So what I got from this is Brettonia has problems with it's navy and maybe we could take advantage of it in a few years I'm all for spreading Democracy to the one place that needs it most... somehow?

 

[Eliar]

More Important NEWS these past Few Years that has become known as Fact to the Council:

Brettonia:

- The Errantry War in Mousillon: This has ended two decades prior the People's Revolt of Sartosa. Mousillion is now ruled by a former Grail Knight Turned Duke. So far the land is said to be free from the blight of vampires and other foul creatures.

- The Plague Knights Invasion: This occurred a decade ago and saw the King of Brettonia wounded by a weapon of Nurgle. Plague Knights and their Norscan allies invaded from the Sea of Claws and saw both the Brettonian and Norscan Navies and Veteran armies decimated. Gambert Rambert, along with champions from every dukedom (all were killed except for him) as well as several damsels, journeyed to Lustria to save the King. They succeeded in obtaining a cure, however, Gambert was later kidnapped by Dark Elves. (Note: Gambert Rambert being kidnapped by Dark Elves is known due to the stories told by the freed slaves and Amazon women.) House Rambert gained the King's Favor and rose so high in Brettonia that their reforms were backed by the King himself. The House's dizzying downfall though serves as a precautionary tale of trying to reach so high and the evils of educating the masses.

- The last Plague Knight army was destroyed a year before the People's Revolt.

- There are only 4 Brettonian Galleons left out of the original 8. The Brettonian Navy sometimes serve as corsairs to finance their supplies and other needs. The Navy is beholden to the merchants of L'Anguille due to their patronage, hence Brettonian warships often escort L'Anguille merchantmen to other parts of the Old World. (Note: Brettonian warships are Age of Sail equivalent)

- The Brettonian Navy buys their weaponry from Estalia, Tilea and the Empire. While Brettonia has a Naval Academy and tradition, politically, those that attended them are looked down upon by their land-owning brethren. Except of course, the noble families that produced the officers of said ships.


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AN: may add a few more snippets later. Can't find where I saved my notes. More nations like The Empire and Kislev coming later. Also this is the reason why the Norscans and their 'masters' are "quiet".

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Actually Rambert saved both his companions and the Prince at the price of being kidnapped by dark elves. Unless you are going with a different continuity here?

 

[butchock]

Actually Rambert saved both his companions and the Prince at the price of being kidnapped by dark elves. Unless you are going with a different continuity here?

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yup, while I follow that quest, the history would be changed here a bit.

edit: the Prince wasn't there hence giving the Rambert family the claim to all the glory.

 

[Night_stalker]

So what I got from this is Brettonia has problems with it's navy and maybe we could take advantage of it in a few years I'm all for spreading Democracy to the one place that needs it most... somehow?

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Problem is getting to Bretonnia, then convincing a conservative peasantry to rise up, when the penalties for doing so are unpleasant.

 

[Qeqre]

"A successful revolution in Bretonnia would require us to infect the hearts and minds of a great many people. For their aristocratic oppressors are skilled in the art of subjugating the pox-ridden peasantry.
*A fly continues buzzing overhead, unnoticed*
We should start in the Border Princes, where central authority is absent and greenskins bear down on them like a plague. Or Tilea, where the elite is only able continue blighting its citizens through the coin that infests their coffers and the sellswords that stick to them like parasites."

 

[Night_stalker]

We should start in the Border Princes, where central authority is absent and greenskins bear down on them like a plague. Or Tilea, where the elite is only able continue blighting its citizens through the coin that infests their coffers and the sellswords that stick to them like parasites."

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The problem with the Border Princes is that the turnover rate there is tremendous. It'd be much safer to stick with Tilea, if nothing else, they're stable.

 

[Asmodemus]

"A successful revolution in Bretonnia would require us to infect the hearts and minds of a great many people. For their aristocratic oppressors are skilled in the art of subjugating the pox-ridden peasantry.
*A fly continues buzzing overhead, unnoticed*
We should start in the Border Princes, where central authority is absent and greenskins bear down on them like a plague. Or Tilea, where the elite is only able continue blighting its citizens through the coin that infests their coffers and the sellswords that stick to them like parasites."

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"There is already a uprising in the land of knights with shining armor cleaned by rubbing the mud off on the faces of their oppressed populace. Perhaps they could be shown the light of our ideals to make it truly one for the people and we could aid them in their great endeavors. Though, to aid them we must first be able to maintain our own independence in the face of the threats of the world. By which I mean we will need coin, much coin."

 

[Night_stalker]

"There is already a uprising in the land of knights with shining armor cleaned by rubbing the mud off on the faces of their oppressed populace. Perhaps they could be shown the light of our ideals to make it truly one for the people and we could aid them in their great endeavors. Though, to aid them we must first be able to maintain our own independence in the face of the threats of the world. By which I mean we will need coin, much coin."

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And therein lies the issue. We need coin.

I'm tempted to offer to merchants Letters of Marque, they do some raiding, we get a cut, win win all around.

But that might slightly irritate the Empire or Bretonnia, and their navies are not to be underestimated.

 

[Qeqre]

The problem with the Border Princes is that the turnover rate there is tremendous. It'd be much safer to stick with Tilea, if nothing else, they're stable.

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"Then might I urge you to consider Estalia? The Tileans hate our gut for being Sartosan. That alone might find us some friends among the Estalians. Who are torn between city-states where the people outnumber the aristocrats and fortresses of hill-warriors where one merits respect from their skill with a blade rather than the womb they crawled from."

"There is already a uprising in the land of knights with shining armor cleaned by rubbing the mud off on the faces of their oppressed populace. Perhaps they could be shown the light of our ideals to make it truly one for the people and we could aid them in their great endeavors. Though, to aid them we must first be able to maintain our own independence in the face of the threats of the world. By which I mean we will need coin, much coin."

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"My fears for Bretonnia are in the investment we'd have to make. Certainly, the tumor of nobility is strongest there and the people need a revolution the most.

But there are other places, ones where our ideas can properly fester so when we turn to Bretonnia we will a greater amount of support for our cause. More resources. More vectors so they won't be able to properly inoculate themselves against our ideology."

 

[Night_stalker]

"Then might I urge you to consider Estalia? The Tileans hate our gut for being Sartosan. That alone might find us some friends among the Estalians. Who are torn between city-states where the people outnumber the aristocrats and fortresses of hill-warriors where one merits respect from their skill with a blade rather than the womb they crawled from."

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"Tilea, Estalia, both shithole city states, worth looking into at the very least."

 

[Asmodemus]

"My fears for Bretonnia are in the investment we'd have to make. Certainly, the tumor of nobility is strongest there and the people need a revolution the most.

But there are other places, ones where our ideas can properly fester so when we turn to Bretonnia we will a greater amount of support for our cause. More resources. More vectors so they won't be able to properly inoculate themselves against our ideology."

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"Yes, it would take some investment, but so would other areas.

The Border Princes would have their people be tougher to sway to revolution, when they are constantly fighting for their lives not just against each other but the greenskins and other things seemingly held at bay by their lords and their armed men in their smaller communities. On a small scale like that, oppression is seemingly far outweighed by the threats around constantly, it is only when they are able to breathe freer of threats that a man is truly able to appreciate how little their 'nobility' actually does compared to their armed men.

I know very little of Tilea and Estalia, but I have to ask, do they already have those fighting the good fight? That is what Brettonia has, along with a important factor.. that the only enemies in sight of the peasant for the most part, are the lords oppressing them, their worries of greenskins and other menaces are far smaller than any other nation."

 

[Qeqre]

House Rambert gained the King's Favor and rose so high in Brettonia that their reforms were backed by the King himself. The House's dizzying downfall though serves as a precautionary tale of trying to reach so high and the evils of educating the masses.

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"Yes, it would take some investment, but so would other areas.

The Border Princes would have their people be tougher to sway to revolution, when they are constantly fighting for their lives not just against each other but the greenskins and other things seemingly held at bay by their lords and their armed men in their smaller communities. On a small scale like that, oppression is seemingly far outweighed by the threats around constantly, it is only when they are able to breathe freer of threats that a man is truly able to appreciate how little their 'nobility' actually does compared to their armed men.

I know very little of Tilea and Estalia, but I have to ask, do they already have those fighting the good fight? That is what Brettonia has, along with a important factor.. that the only enemies in sight of the peasant for the most part, are the lords oppressing them, their worries of greenskins and other menaces are far smaller than any other nation."

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"Bretonnia no longer has those fighting the good fight. The last of their forces got broken over half a decade ago.
There are countless hordes of greenskins in Bretonnia's mountains alongside herds of beastmen that are sure to have preyed upon the peasantry while their masters were fighting. Our only allies will be amongst the merchants. The selfsame merchants who hold influence over the Bretonnian fleet that failed its nation.

Public sentiment will be against us. Especially since those nobles will have had time to remind the populace of their value by slaying greenskins and other assorted monsters in the time since house Rambert fell.

The Bretonnian Merchants need time and wealth before they stand a chance at revolution. Time is something we can give them. That same time is something we can use to get them the wealth they need. And where else to find wealth but Tilea?

Bretonnia should not be our first target. Especially not in the immediate future."

 

[King Arthur]

The Border Princes would have their people be tougher to sway to revolution, when they are constantly fighting for their lives not just against each other but the greenskins and other things seemingly held at bay by their lords and their armed men in their smaller communities. On a small scale like that, oppression is seemingly far outweighed by the threats around constantly, it is only when they are able to breathe freer of threats that a man is truly able to appreciate how little their 'nobility' actually does compared to their armed men.

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"It seems odd that we only take into account the race of man when multiple races fall under our banner. Considering we have Greenskins in our community ... wold it not be possible to target the Greenskins of the Borderlands and bring them under the fold of democracy?

This way instead of whatever democracy we set up in the Border Lands risking being washed away by the Greenskins it is, instead, supported by the Greenskins."

 

[Asmodemus]

"Bretonnia no longer has those fighting the good fight. The last of their forces got broken over half a decade ago.

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"Odd, then that they were reported to have defeated a noble army last year. Perhaps you missed that news? Either that or my friends are quite behind the times."

The Kingdom of Brettonia (plausible rumor)

Rambert's "Legion" Victorious!​

- In a series of daring raids across the southern-most province of Brettonia that culminated in a pitched battle that saw the Duke of Carcassone wounded. The 'peasant' army wearing the heraldry of a wolf on a field of blue and black has managed to do the impossible and defeated a noble army in the field. The death toll though was horrendous on both sides of the conflict. Some believe that it was Gambert himself who lead this victory, while others claim that it was another rebel leader claiming the title of the "Fox". What is true though is that the "legion" are well-armed and trained. A knight was even heard to have commented that the peasants 'fought like warrior-poets...'

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"It seems odd that we only take into account the race of man when multiple races fall under our banner. Considering we have Greenskins in our community ... wold it not be possible to target the Greenskins of the Borderlands and bring them under the fold of democracy?

This way instead of whatever democracy we set up in the Border Lands risking being washed away by the Greenskins it is, instead, supported by the Greenskins."

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"You shall have my full support behind your efforts at diplomacy with orcs and goblins, so long as it does not come out of the state's sadly limited coffers."

 

[Eliar]

"It seems odd that we only take into account the race of man when multiple races fall under our banner. Considering we have Greenskins in our community ... wold it not be possible to target the Greenskins of the Borderlands and bring them under the fold of democracy?

This way instead of whatever democracy we set up in the Border Lands risking being washed away by the Greenskins it is, instead, supported by the Greenskins."

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"Odd, then that they were reported to have defeated a noble army last year. Perhaps you missed that news? Either that or my friends are quite behind the times."





"You shall have my full support behind your efforts at diplomacy with orcs and goblins, so long as it does not come out of the state's sadly limited coffers."

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"Pah! We all know how Greenskins in other parts of the world do diplomacy. Let's find our biggest,strongest orc, clad him in our finest gear and send him off with whatever envoys we decide to send there. Let us take control of the local Greenskin tribes the old way and then educate them on the joys of democracy."