The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire

[Siual]

Can we also put in that we inform him of the corruption in his provinces and the clergy and if he isn't really aware how extensive we can show him it and he'll give it to the ar ulric and they'll likely thank us and give us more rapport with them making our place as chancellor more comfortable to them since we helped them out in a vampire corruption problem they have. Also say we can support you in fighting against the corruption as too further make inroads with them.

Hey let's look like we are being the better man and not abide by just one religion and try help them all.

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Sure why not? I'll add it to the plan.

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Doesn't this kind of defeat the point of us potentially using this at a later stage? Stirland having Slaaneshi cults and us swooping in to take charge was an essential device in keeping Stirland out of the maws of Von Carstein, after all.

Even if you're only thinking of the good of the Empire, I'm really not sure Todbringer has earned our trust to that degree. We can present him with this information when we've had an interaction or two beyond "I will only stop allying myself to the vampires when you prostrate yourself at my feet".

Also, mind, this would be an immense favour to the Ulrican church, even though we are making the pitch to the GT that we are on his side and want to see Ulrican influence reduced in the Empire. I don't think we can have it both ways at present.

If we want to come forward with the information and help them (by being a bridge between the Iron Tower and the Ulricans), I think the Ar Ulric is the person to talk to, hopefully to also extract some concessions that he further marginalises the supremacist side of his Church. Volunteering this information with the hope that the Empire will become a better place is nice, but using it to actually produce a tangible benefit is vastly better.


[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire


On a different note, should we not engage with the Imperialist faction to pre-empt quite a bit of civil unrest?

The faction is clearly quite powerful, as they offered enough to tempt two Electors to switch their vote. If we (secretly) accept their backing but let them know that we are intending to wait things out because we do not feel like diving headfirst into Stirland at present, we could have a strong extra asset going into the next election, whenever that might be.

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

Even if you're only thinking of the good of the Empire, I'm really not sure Todbringer has earned our trust to that degree. We can present him with this information when we've had an interaction or two beyond "I will only stop allying myself to the vampires when you prostrate yourself at my feet".

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To be fair our relationship with Tod is actually the best among the candidates at a modest 24 which is not much but with our now leaving the race and joining his faction and telling of the corruption in his land and church it'll rise a good bit so he'll trust us more let us be in his circle of friends and becoming his anchor into not letting him get into his radical bad tendencies.

Also is the plan we are envisioning is having todbringer face tank vlads forces while we rest cozy in our province giving him the best resources he'll be paying for while sitting back relax and continue to build our industries and research new and better. It would be more beneficial to that plan when's theirs less chances of his subordinates betraying him causing a ruckus in his land and then vlad comes in and kills him leaving us to pick up the pieces and bye bye all the plans of building. So it would be more beneficial to help and the face tank is gonna weaken him anyway so atleast use the information to ingriate ourselves further.

Also, mind, this would be an immense favour to the Ulrican church, even though we are making the pitch to the GT that we are on his side and want to see Ulrican influence reduced in the Empire. I don't think we can have it both ways at present.

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Why do we want to keep that promise the ulricans have been more than helpful to us in being proactive about fighting vlad the ar ulric himself vouched for us when we arrived late and were jeered for it and he was the main reason in letting the Tod join us cause he pretty much forced his foster son to ride out to battle and crush the undead in the crossing so I'm not really gonna care if their gonna expand cause I think they deserve it.

Also the plan we are proposing to the GT is long term and their could be situations that could make that plan moot and well we can just say it failed and walk away cause no plan survives first contact especially long term plans that take decades in a time of great turmoil and strife. And by that point we've been chancellor for decades and well we'll likely have the political power to not care about some promise we gave a few decades ago.

[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire

Also I do agree we should meet up with the al ulric to have him and the iron tower and van hal team up to cleanse the taint out of affected provinces and it could be a good way mend religious grievances between sigmarites and ulricans. Though that should be in a future turn.

Also I do agree that we should be worried about the imperialist they are powerful and likely dangerous.

 

[Siual]

-[] The Wissenland Road Network Cost: 1,500 Marks and 400 Materials per Die 1 Die
--[] Dotternbach-Wurmgrube Road - 0/300 (Includes the Dottern Bridge across the River Dottern)

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Small additional nitpick: I think the Dotternbach-Wurmgrube link (while absolutely nice to have) is a lot less vital than bridging the Harrach and building the Wurmgrube-Meissen road. Right now the bottom third of our estate is not connected with the rest while the Dottern has already been bridged at Wissenburg.

 

[Kairos]

Okay thought about this more, and I think my plan can't inform both the GT and Todbringer about Middenland's vampire problem at the same time. We can't promise to help Middenland with their vampire problem while saying to the GT that we can take advantage of this dysfunction. That leaves us flip-floppy in our position.

There's a chance Todbringer already knows about his infiltration problem so we'd really just be giving away that we know about it too. I don't think it will help much in convincing him. Like @Siual says, much more useful to bring it up to the Ar-Uric as he heads a rival faction in the Ulrican Church and the vampire infiltration should largely affect Todbringer's faction the most. I'm reverting to the original write-in. Stick with our main argument for convincing him and that's the votes we can bring.

To be fair our relationship with Tod is actually the best among the candidates at a modest 24 which is not much but with our now leaving the race and joining his faction and telling of the corruption in his land and church it'll rise a good bit so he'll trust us more let us be in his circle of friends and becoming his anchor into not letting him get into his radical bad tendencies.

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The thing about Todbringer being Emperor is we want him to do his job of uniting the Empire but not do it so well that the Ulrican candidacy for Emperor is ensured for future elections.

On a different note, should we not engage with the Imperialist faction to pre-empt quite a bit of civil unrest?

The faction is clearly quite powerful, as they offered enough to tempt two Electors to switch their vote. If we (secretly) accept their backing but let them know that we are intending to wait things out because we do not feel like diving headfirst into Stirland at present, we could have a strong extra asset going into the next election, whenever that might be.

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I was considering it but the action to include it would mean engaging with a noble/cult/notable and that's a DC of 200. That's 4 die if we want to make sure it's a success, possibly 5 given we're about to do something they won't like.

It's doable if I remove funding Ostermark or sending out our spies in Stirland, but that means either losing out on a possible bonus to the roll for Ostermark's vote or going in blind into Stirland. I'd have to remove the action for the College of Engineering as well. That is way cheaper in cost though.

Small additional nitpick: I think the Dotternbach-Wurmgrube link (while absolutely nice to have) is a lot less vital than bridging the Harrach and building the Wurmgrube-Meissen road. Right now the bottom third of our estate is not connected with the rest while the Dottern has already been bridged at Wissenburg.

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I can flip it to the Wurmgrube-Meissen. Should have looked at a map of Wissenland again. The important part is we beeline for Wusterburg. Once the roads link up, that means Meissen becomes the crossroads of Wissenland and Solland.

 

[Curufinwe]

we get to re use the dice from last time, but only on election stuff right Warkeymon, or is that already accounted for in the plan, because ill be honest the dice numbers make my head go brrr and cloudy

on a separate note, happy 100th page everyone

 

[Siual]

I was considering it but the action to include it would mean engaging with a noble/cult/notable and that's a DC of 200. That's 4 die if we want to make sure it's a success, possibly 5 given we're about to do something they won't like.

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I don't think it is?

Engage with a Noble, Notable or Cult (Write-In which Person of Power)
The Wissenland is made of varied Estates, Cults and the City, improving the relationship between yourself and one of your People of Power can improve their investment in the Province. This may also be an opportunity to have more complex discussions about their wants and needs or to make a proposition. (May write-in a suggestion for the discussion you want with the person)
Cost: 200 Marks per Die
Must Beat: 50

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Given that they should be beating down our door for an audience with the man they want to make Emperor, one die should be plenty, I'd think.

 

[Kairos]

Given that they should be beating down our door for an audience with the man they want to make Emperor, one die should be plenty, I'd think.

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I need to get my eyes checked out. Can't believe I missed that.

I guess the fertilizer is going back in the bag. I'll remove the college of engineering action then. Let me just draft the write-in

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

The thing about Todbringer being Emperor is we want him to do his job of uniting the Empire but not do it so well that the Ulrican candidacy for Emperor is enshrined in the next election.

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To be fair that's still a decades away situation that could have more events that could happen that can make a sigmarite candidate viable and remember we are playing the long game here cause we've now joined ourselves to todbringer as his right hand man with our place as chancellor his actions and our actions are intertwined now and do we still want to become Emperor after todbringer passes if we make his reign great we can coast upon his success to the chair of the emperor then we can do change.

I think the GT would be okay with that since we are quite favored to them and we do still give them the proper respect and if we become an Emperor they likely be ok with that.

Look I just want to put my point forward and use our resources we've gathered to the best of our ability. Cause different avenues can be explored than just that one path.

And if we want to become Emperor after the wolf being his right hand man in his good rule can be good credentials when throw our hat in the next election after his death in a time of peace and prosperity that helped usher.

Though I'm ok with it either way

Also what's everyone's thoughts on the ulricans gaining more power cause I've already made my point on them being helpful so atleast they have that.

 

[Siual]

I guess the fertilizer is going back in the bag. I'll remove the college of engineering action then. Let me just draft the write-in

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You could also pinch off one die from the Imperial Gunnery school? 2 dice should be enough to hit the DC reliably, and the target should be progressive and not pass/fail I'd think?

 

[Kairos]

You could also pinch off one die from the Imperial Gunnery school? 2 dice should be enough to hit the DC reliably, and the target should be progressive and not pass/fail I'd think?

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The Imperial Gunnery School
Instruct the Imperial Gunnery School to create blackpowder arms and armour for use in the raising, training and equipping of regiments of State Troop within Ostermark.
Cost: 2,000 Marks, 1,000 Materials and 1,000 Food per Die
Must Beat: 100

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Unfortunately it's a must beat. I'm not sure about moving the dice over. I'll think about it. What does everyone else think? Is the die better on Ostermark or the Imperialists? It would save us a bunch of resources if we moved it and reduce the deficit we're making.

Oh and the plan is updated. Here's the write-in I drafted. Let me know if you want anything added or omitted. Broke it up into paragraphs for easier reading.

Write-In:
Thank them for their support of Wissenland's interests. Inform them that we will not be personally seeking Imperial Candidacy at this time. We were open to it in our talks with the Grand Theogonist, but practically and politically taking the Imperial Throne would not be the best course of action for Wissenland.

Even if we could snatch the crown at the last minute, we would be challenged not only by Sylvania but also the resurgent Reikland and Middenland. We were optimistic at first that a bid for the throne was possible, but the flipping of much of the electors allied with us in the Conference to Middenland has sapped our momentum. As the current situation stands, it is impossible for Wissenland to gain the necessary amount of votes to win the throne of the Empire without contest.

Assuming the throne without a majority of the electors would simply invite conflict that Wissenland would struggle to bear the cost of. Point out the weary state of the Iron Companies, particularly the heavy losses of the Elector's Own. Remind them that was without direct confrontation with Von Carstein. Bring up as well our current monetary woes. We're already struggling with fulfilling our duty to the province while fighting the threat of vampirism abroad.

Persuade them that the best course of action if they wish to see an Iron Emperor on the throne in the future would be to help persuade the GT and our other supporters into voting for Middenland and securing influence for Wissenland as Imperial Chancellor. If we can gain the GT's endorsement, we can definitively usurp Reikland as the head of the Sigmarite faction in Imperial politics and be in prime position to become Emperor when Middenland's time has past.


Edit: Also I just checked. The Elector's Own got thrashed.

The Elector's Own Lances
Cost: 2,123 Marks, 2,123 Materials, 21,230 Food
Required Effort: 0/2,123

It almost costs as much in dice to turn Nuln into a Fortress City to fully replenish them.

 

[Siual]

Persuade them that the best course of action if they wish to see an Iron Emperor on the throne in the future would be to help persuade the GT and our other supporters into voting for Middenland and securing influence for Wissenland as Imperial Chancellor. If we can gain the GT's endorsement, we can definitively usurp Reikland as the head of the Sigmarite faction in Imperial politics and be in prime position to become Emperor when Middenland's time has past.

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Pretty good overall, though I don't think asking the faction whose entire existence is based around putting us on the throne to divert their resources to a rival candidate has a great chance of success -- it might completely alienate them.

I'd rather just 1) reassure them we are still intending to become Emperor and 2) accept their support but ask them to lay low for now and not kick up a huge fuss.

Them not creating a headache at home by inciting widespread civil unrest, and getting them at least tacitly in line with our regular diplomatic policy would already be a notable success.

Edit: Also I just checked. The Elector's Own got thrashed.

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We're fully back to being bootleg dwarves it seems.

On that note, I've been meaning to ask/propose this action, and now seems as good a time as any:

@Warkeymon

Is it possible to set up a horse breeding programme/royal stables in Solland? One persistent issue whenever we've tried to replenish the Elector's Own is the lack of a strong horse tradition in the province. Most of the horses and candidate riders for the regiment seem to be recruited ad-hoc from merchant families who maintain their very limited breeding pools. Setting up a large breeding instutition with good bloodstock should both give us more horses, better quality horses and lots of potential riders to work with.

Also Solland might really appreciate us investing in their traditions because they're a prickly lot who bristle when we ignore them and bristle when we invest in them but make them do things differently from How They Have Always Done Things (looking at the last time we invested in docks there).

Finally, our wife would really appreciate this, we could get her to run it (if that wouldn't give the Auld Sollanders an aneurysm) or at least patronise it.

 

[Kairos]

Pretty good overall, though I don't think asking the faction whose entire existence is based around putting us on the throne to divert their resources to a rival candidate has a great chance of success -- it might completely alienate them.

I'd rather just 1) reassure them we are still intending to become Emperor and 2) accept their support but ask them to lay low for now and not kick up a huge fuss.

Them not creating a headache at home by inciting widespread civil unrest, and getting them at least tacitly in line with our regular diplomatic policy would already be a notable success.

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I can add a bit asking at the very least for their understanding in our decision. Then propose the other bits based on their reaction.

Edit: Added. This is the edit to the write-in in particular.

"Ask them at the very least for their understanding in our decision. If they look agreeable, propose to them that the best course of action if they wish to see an Iron Emperor on the throne in the future would be to help persuade the GT and our other supporters to go along with us and secure influence for Wissenland as Imperial Chancellor. If we can gain the GT's endorsement, we can definitively usurp Reikland as the head of the Sigmarite faction in Imperial politics and be in prime position to become Emperor when Middenland's time has past."

 

[Warkeymon]

On that note, I've been meaning to ask/propose this action, and now seems as good a time as any:

@Warkeymon

Is it possible to set up a horse breeding programme/royal stables in Solland? One persistent issue whenever we've tried to replenish the Elector's Own is the lack of a strong horse tradition in the province. Most of the horses and candidate riders for the regiment seem to be recruited ad-hoc from merchant families who maintain their very limited breeding pools. Setting up a large breeding instutition with good bloodstock should both give us more horses, better quality horses and lots of potential riders to work with.

Also Solland might really appreciate us investing in their traditions because they're a prickly lot who bristle when we ignore them and bristle when we invest in them but make them do things differently from How They Have Always Done Things (looking at the last time we invested in docks there).

Finally, our wife would really appreciate this, we could get her to run it (if that wouldn't give the Auld Sollanders an aneurysm) or at least patronise it.

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In order to set up a new institution In the Sudenland you'd need to speak to the local landowner e.g. Baron of Pfeildorf or Steingart. The investments you've been doing in the Provinces so far are being done by and large with either the consent of the local landowner or as part of a more widely accepted practice of investment in low level developments such as farms and docks. Even mining is a controversial issue in the Provinces with for example ownership of the new seam in the County of Kreutzhofen being a matter that you would have needed to contest if you wanted it to be used directly by your institutions.

 

[Razios]

By the way, if this is konrad this actually show at issue the von castarin have...which hilariously it the same of us: lack of unity.

Vampires are hilarious petty and they often scheme against each other, let not forget manfred let the empire steal the ring of vlad and kinda provoke konrad into total insanity. It very posible that if Vlad lose, other vampire desire to try their luck which help us.

 

[Stars Burning]

so I was looking up old guns recently and I found something that might be of in interest. The Kalthoff repeater
they were types of Flintlocks that had magazines between 5 to 30 rounds in them depending on the style of magazine

 

[Kairos]

In order to set up a new institution In the Sudenland you'd need to speak to the local landowner e.g. Baron of Pfeildorf or Steingart. The investments you've been doing in the Provinces so far are being done by and large with either the consent of the local landowner or as part of a more widely accepted practice of investment in low level developments such as farms and docks. Even mining is a controversial issue in the Provinces with for example ownership of the new seam in the County of Kreutzhofen being a matter that you would have needed to contest if you wanted it to be used directly by your institutions.

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What about setting it up in our personal domain, like in Meissen? I don't think we'll need to ask permission from the nobility when it comes to our own personal holdings. Then it's just a matter of importing good breeding stock from Averland or Brettonia for better warhorses. I'm making it sound simple but I'm sure it's more complicated that that. I'm just pointing out we do have our own land we can use.

By the way, if this is konrad this actually show at issue the von castarin have...which hilariously it the same of us: lack of unity.

Vampires are hilarious petty and they often scheme against each other, let not forget manfred let the empire steal the ring of vlad and kinda provoke konrad into total insanity. It very posible that if Vlad lose, other vampire desire to try their luck which help us.

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Very true. While Vlad regenerates, the Von Carstein siblings are going to start jockeying for position. I do think we have to remember Isabella is still in play. So even though Vlad is off the field, I'm sure the Von Carstein matriarch is doing her best at wrangling her progeny into a cohesive force.

The other benefit to Vlad being gone is that Sylvania are not likely going to be fielding doomstacks of undead. Only necromancer that can rival Vlad's ability is Mannfred. Still, that means we're going to be dealing with smaller, more mobile forces in Stirland. That poses it's own problems, especially since with the Elector's Own thrashed, we're back to fighting like bootleg dwarfs again.

so I was looking up old guns recently and I found something that might be of in interest. The Kalthoff repeater
they were types of Flintlocks that had magazines between 5 to 30 rounds in them depending on the style of magazine

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Just looked it up. Amazing piece of engineering, especially for a smoothbore firearm. Unfortunate that it's so expensive and hard to maintain.

 

[Hellteddy]

[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

That poses it's own problems, especially since with the Elector's Own thrashed, we're back to fighting like bootleg dwarfs again.

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Well with any luck we don't need to worry about that since we are hopefully be joined by Tod and his forces which would likely have a large force cavalry since he's got his knight orders on call and maybe averland Is gonna join since he's thrown his lot in with the wolf so his cavalry would join us as well so I think we should live down being bootleg dwarfs and be the anvil to our allies hammer.

This battle for stirland is gonna be the first test of unity true in the Empire now I hope we can do this cause this is the first step In healing Millenia long wounds.

Also question about our spare old guns can we sell them to the wolf when we get the chance cause he is now our ally and we can get paid and get a relationship boost and better his ability to face tank. Also I wish we did it sooner cause the Ottilians was a waste of actions and dice.

 

[Warkeymon]

What about setting it up in our personal domain, like in Meissen? I don't think we'll need to ask permission from the nobility when it comes to our own personal holdings. Then it's just a matter of importing good breeding stock from Averland or Brettonia for better warhorses. I'm making it sound simple but I'm sure it's more complicated that that. I'm just pointing out we do have our own land we can use.

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I've added the below option to Stewardship

The Stables of the Wissenland
Construct the facilities to begin a breeding program for horses to supply the Iron Companies and hopefully found a Wissenlander cavalry tradition.
Cost: 1,600 Marks, 300 Materials and 100 Food per Die
Effort Required: See List of Options

Spoiler: Options

The County of Nuln and the northern Electoral Estate - 0/300
The Grand County of Wissenland and the southern Electoral Estate - 0/500
The Duchy of Meissen - 0/300

Also question about our spare old guns can we sell them to the wolf when we get the chance cause he is now our ally and we can get paid and get a relationship boost and better his ability to face tank. Also I wish we did it sooner cause the Ottilians was a waste of actions and dice.

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Yes, your old guns are not yet promised to anyone so you could talk to Middenheim and offer them your old guns.

 

[Siual]

What about setting it up in our personal domain, like in Meissen? I don't think we'll need to ask permission from the nobility when it comes to our own personal holdings. Then it's just a matter of importing good breeding stock from Averland or Brettonia for better warhorses. I'm making it sound simple but I'm sure it's more complicated that that. I'm just pointing out we do have our own land we can use.

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The Stables of the Wissenland

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Meissen is pretty much the best place to do something like this if we were to do it in Wissenland, I agree. But the issue remains that Wissenland is just very craggy and doesn't have any horse tradition at all; all horse expertise of the province is in the south. We could start a tradition from scratch in Wissenland proper, but Sudenland is just already better at it.

Ideally, the institution feeds off of the already extant horse breeding expertise and also passively over time improves the quality of the Sudenlander herds. Merchants or nobles willing to pay for prize studs will be more plentiful in the south, potentially making our stables more economically viable. Any expansion into for instance racing horses or specialised draught horses is, I imagine, also more likely to be successful in the south.

There's also the purely cultural angle to consider: horses and cavalry are their thing, and by building it in Wissenland we can be seen as trying to enroach on their territory. Also, finally note that investing in Pfeildorf a while back saw them usurped by Geschburg as the bannerbearers of the Solland Independence Movement. Planting a provincial institution in Pfeildorf with the cooperation of its lord might fully push them out of that faction, further marginalising it.

It's a bit unpredictable how they would react to the proposal, but I feel like the potential advantages justify us at least pitching it to them first. We're on good terms with the Baron of Pfeildorf so shouldn't take more than one die.

 

[Kairos]

Yes, your old guns are not yet promised to anyone so you could talk to Middenheim and offer them your old guns.

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I can add that as a sweetener to the Middenheim discussion if people want? Let me know.

It's a bit unpredictable how they would react to the proposal, but I feel like the potential advantages justify us at least pitching it to them first. We're on good terms with the Baron of Pfeildorf so shouldn't take more than one die.

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At least we have the action for better horses now. We can talk to the Baron in the hopes of expanding it. Though I do think starting it will at least help with the ravaged state of the Elector's Own.

@Warkeymon Can the stables action count as our locked die for the province?

 

[Warkeymon]

@Warkeymon Can the stables action count as our locked die for the province?

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Yes

 

[Watcher's Eyes]

I can add that as a sweetener to the Middenheim discussion if people want? Let me know.

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I'm ok with it cause it's good way to further ingratiate ourselves to our new emperor and can help us getting a trade deal going. Hey this will pay dividends later once we get more new weapons they'll be first in line to pay and get it strengthening the empire and getting us paid.

 

[Jonny_boy]

I'm ok with it cause it's good way to further ingratiate ourselves to our new emperor and can help us getting a trade deal going. Hey this will pay dividends later once we get more new weapons they'll be first in line to pay and get it strengthening the empire and getting us paid.

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I 2nd this, we should use any variable to make the negotiations to our advantage.

 

[Kairos]

I'm ok with it cause it's good way to further ingratiate ourselves to our new emperor and can help us getting a trade deal going. Hey this will pay dividends later once we get more new weapons they'll be first in line to pay and get it strengthening the empire and getting us paid.

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I 2nd this, we should use any variable to make the negotiations to our advantage.

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Okay I'll add it!