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The Old World: Dark Age of the Empire
- Thread starter Warkeymon
- Start date
- Fantasy
- Location
- Over the next hill.
@Warkeymon
Can we spend the regular turn dice on meeting with an elector to signify extra effort?
Might be able to eke out a better result if we can.
Todbringers in quite a pickle. He's the closest to winning the election outright. At the same time if he wins the election he's getting thrown headfirst into a crisis he can't resolve with his shattered army right now.
Can we spend the regular turn dice on meeting with an elector to signify extra effort?
Might be able to eke out a better result if we can.
Todbringers in quite a pickle. He's the closest to winning the election outright. At the same time if he wins the election he's getting thrown headfirst into a crisis he can't resolve with his shattered army right now.
Yup worried this would happen and now wurtbad captured and stirlands army dead and likely risen again it seems vlad back and ready to play again.
I knew going the iron emperor was a mistake if we choose the concessions earlier we could have already mobilized in force with the wolf and continued to smash vlads face In likely saving wurtbad and stirland army.
Also we likely lost our stirland vote since the prince is likely running back home to atleast look like he cares.
Likely now we to mobilize ourselves again and now likely not having the support of the coalition until the vote is over and even then it's just one faction. But atleast it's likely the wolf would help since he does do what he says in wanting to reunite the empire under his rule.
Also we are doing this alone since ostermark is still reeling and I don't think the rest cares enough to help since theirs a vote ongoing.
I knew going the iron emperor was a mistake if we choose the concessions earlier we could have already mobilized in force with the wolf and continued to smash vlads face In likely saving wurtbad and stirland army.
Also we likely lost our stirland vote since the prince is likely running back home to atleast look like he cares.
Likely now we to mobilize ourselves again and now likely not having the support of the coalition until the vote is over and even then it's just one faction. But atleast it's likely the wolf would help since he does do what he says in wanting to reunite the empire under his rule.
Also we are doing this alone since ostermark is still reeling and I don't think the rest cares enough to help since theirs a vote ongoing.
Wait his armies is shattered from my readings its weakened but not shattered they did still win the crossing by smashing vlads face In and that likely reduce casualties since without leader the undead crumbled. But the whole vampire corruption in middenheim is worrying hopefully they sort it out. I'm more inclined that the otillians forces are more wrecked than the wolf's. He's still got his knightly orders and kruger who is a beast.
- Location
- Someplace USA
Abboresh is involved? On our side? Wtf
- Pronouns
- Warkeymon
You can add more dice to the Election, the 8 that carry over from last turn can only be spent on the Election however.
No, Van Hal had learnt that Abhorash was a key part of winning the last Vampire War over in Estalia and looked for him to see if he might help this time. But couldn't find him. Abhorash wanders all over the world and has thousands of years of practice passing below notice so it's not entirely surprising.
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Prince Lutz is a lost cause but our votes will be enough to let the wolf reach the majority we just need to keep our allied from switching and make sure they are OK with changing to the wolf cause right now I don't think we can handle aiding stirland without the wolf's help.
Since his armies still mobilized and likely if he thinks it's a pertinent threat likely call upon more troops since middenland has been always strong in men and troop especially after war and in his early reign it was nothing but war.
Since his armies still mobilized and likely if he thinks it's a pertinent threat likely call upon more troops since middenland has been always strong in men and troop especially after war and in his early reign it was nothing but war.
- Location
- Over the next hill.
I'm just going off of the post-battle aftermath. Seems like at the very least his regular army took heavy losses. At least to half strength maybe. But we wouldn't really know the exact numbers. I don't think his army is anymore intact than that given the description of the battlefield. Maybe he did some rush recruiting after but I doubt it's replenished yet.
Ok that's great news. We can go nuts with the dice.
I think either Wolf or Iron Emperor should be pretty doable with the dice we have. Wolf's more straightforward but we'd have to convince each of our supporters, otherwise any hope of concessions is gone.
For the Iron bid, it's going to be a matter of picking the right electors.
Wolf is starting to appeal more to me now. If only so that we let Todbringer be Vlad's punching bag while we go back to developing Wissenland.
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It's likely his elite forces the ones best suited in beating necromancers that are the linchpin in vlads armies next to vampires are likely still ok and ready for more war atleast.
But remember there's still the wolf's sister who's elector countess of Nordland who's forces couldn't likely join in on the crossing since it was quite far. It's likely now that battles over and it was quite damaging wolf called for her sisters state troops to augment his army for awhile till they replenish.
Theirs also his wife's family in hochland they seem powerful enough to have a good force. And hochland itself since they flip to his side and haven't yet committed forces It's likely now with the fall of wurtbad wolf has called upon his new ally to mobilize his troops which still untouched from battle.
so atleast from my point of view the Wolf's army is likely on way back to full strength since he now got two provinces at his disposal and atleast hochland is still likely got a full force. And Nordland maybe is strong enough to give atleast a numbers boost.
Honestly becoming iron emperor now is too much a pain since theirs still alot of powerful rivals.
I'm just content in becoming chancellor and sending all our aid to the wolf while he face tanks vlads forces while devise new weapons to give the wolf and finally to beat vlad once and for all. It's a win win situation we prove ourselves invaluable to the wolf emperor by being their main supplier in arms weaponry, we get ourselves some breathing room for more work in wissenland proper, and we get paid for our efforts by the wolf, and we don't need to be always now helping the other provinces cause the wolf is gonna be doing it now so more campaign when vlad comes a knocking.
So I'm wolf emperor all the way now cause it seems he's the best choice and from what we seen of him he's actually a good statesman and ruler for managing to get all these allies and turned his situation from being the weakest candidate at the start of the quest to being the most ascendant now.
Cause from re reading from the beginning his start was the worst since he got saddled in a four way war with sigmarites, Nordland, internal warfare with a beastmen rising and a spontaneous wood elf assault.
And managed to win in the end albeit with help from slyvania but honestly by that point take what you can get to win.
It's kinda inspiring from that terrible start he's now here at his moment of greatest triumph almost there to becoming emperor and he just needs a little push to proceed. We are gonna be that push.
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- Location
- Burgundian Netherlands
Shit hit the fan a lot faster than expected. Producing an Emperor after the first round wouldn't have changed anything for Stirland, but it does mean that we need one now, or we'll have two Sylvania's instead of one before the month is over.
An Iron Emperor candidacy is, I agree with @Kairos, entirely plausible. The Moot delivered their part of the bargain to Reikland and is again in the market, Marienburg is already kind of on our side and doesn't require a big push, and Reikland could maybe be persuaded to flip given the circumstances. That puts us at 7. Use extra dice and we can try to bag whichever of Hochland-Ostland is currently still in the defunct Ottilian faction (probably Ostland given that they voted to adjourn the election).
Todbringer can only win if he flips whichever Ottilian he doesn't have yet, Mootland (most realistically given that only they are explicitly selling their vote) and then an unknown third. Maybe Stirland if they panic them enough? Maybe Talabecland if they can be convinced the Ottilian faction is dead as a doornail? But all of those are highly questionable: Mootland dislikes Todbringer and would rather sell to us; there is likely a reason Ostland hasn't switched yet because you can bet Todbringer has been working them; Talabecland would rather die than swallow their pride; and Stirland would be taking a risk by going back on their promise to the Imperialist faction. The most plausible (and perhaps only) way for Todbringer to become Emperor is if we make him Emperor.
The problem is that two things have changed that make an Iron Emperor candidacy a lot less appealing and a Wolf Emperor victory more advantageous:
First, as Emperor and party ultimately responsible for cracking Stirland's defences, we would have to throw a lot of dice at Stirland and bleed for them immediately, with no guarantee anyone would march with us. Not an attractive proposition with Vlad poised to strike soon. Also we will not have dice to spare if we really want to win the Election. It's a choice between being certain Stirland survives in some form, being certain of becoming Emperor, or trying to do both but potentially botching the election and costing the Empire a province.
Second, the revelation that Middenland and the Cult of Ulric are suborned by vampires is a very powerful arrow in our quiver, and makes the Wolf Emperor's throne rest on a lot shakier ground. We go to the GT with this information, and we could persuade him that we have everything in place to make the Wolf Emperor the fall guy once the vampiric threat has abated, if he doesn't fall on the battlefield first.
So a tentative kingmaker plan:
- Middenland (3 dice): We get him two votes and the GT's assent, Todbringer is responsible for finding his final vote. We become Chancellor and march with him on Stirland, with our full force or part of it.
- Grand Theogonist (3 dice): We try to convice the GT we have dirt on Toddy and the Ulrican Church and can bring him down at some point in the future. Also the Sigmarite faction is not served by us putting our head on the chopping block immediately after being crowned. We need the GT to vote with us, or at least not refuse the crown.
- Ostermark (2 dice): If the GT for some reason does not want to vote with us: We agree to bankroll the rebuilding of their State Troop and they vote Middenland, as per the original deal.
With the other 10 dice, we prepare for the storm, because Stirland becoming an undead province is terrible news for us.
An Iron Emperor candidacy is, I agree with @Kairos, entirely plausible. The Moot delivered their part of the bargain to Reikland and is again in the market, Marienburg is already kind of on our side and doesn't require a big push, and Reikland could maybe be persuaded to flip given the circumstances. That puts us at 7. Use extra dice and we can try to bag whichever of Hochland-Ostland is currently still in the defunct Ottilian faction (probably Ostland given that they voted to adjourn the election).
Todbringer can only win if he flips whichever Ottilian he doesn't have yet, Mootland (most realistically given that only they are explicitly selling their vote) and then an unknown third. Maybe Stirland if they panic them enough? Maybe Talabecland if they can be convinced the Ottilian faction is dead as a doornail? But all of those are highly questionable: Mootland dislikes Todbringer and would rather sell to us; there is likely a reason Ostland hasn't switched yet because you can bet Todbringer has been working them; Talabecland would rather die than swallow their pride; and Stirland would be taking a risk by going back on their promise to the Imperialist faction. The most plausible (and perhaps only) way for Todbringer to become Emperor is if we make him Emperor.
The problem is that two things have changed that make an Iron Emperor candidacy a lot less appealing and a Wolf Emperor victory more advantageous:
First, as Emperor and party ultimately responsible for cracking Stirland's defences, we would have to throw a lot of dice at Stirland and bleed for them immediately, with no guarantee anyone would march with us. Not an attractive proposition with Vlad poised to strike soon. Also we will not have dice to spare if we really want to win the Election. It's a choice between being certain Stirland survives in some form, being certain of becoming Emperor, or trying to do both but potentially botching the election and costing the Empire a province.
Second, the revelation that Middenland and the Cult of Ulric are suborned by vampires is a very powerful arrow in our quiver, and makes the Wolf Emperor's throne rest on a lot shakier ground. We go to the GT with this information, and we could persuade him that we have everything in place to make the Wolf Emperor the fall guy once the vampiric threat has abated, if he doesn't fall on the battlefield first.
So a tentative kingmaker plan:
- Middenland (3 dice): We get him two votes and the GT's assent, Todbringer is responsible for finding his final vote. We become Chancellor and march with him on Stirland, with our full force or part of it.
- Grand Theogonist (3 dice): We try to convice the GT we have dirt on Toddy and the Ulrican Church and can bring him down at some point in the future. Also the Sigmarite faction is not served by us putting our head on the chopping block immediately after being crowned. We need the GT to vote with us, or at least not refuse the crown.
- Ostermark (2 dice): If the GT for some reason does not want to vote with us: We agree to bankroll the rebuilding of their State Troop and they vote Middenland, as per the original deal.
With the other 10 dice, we prepare for the storm, because Stirland becoming an undead province is terrible news for us.
- Location
- Germany
You are thinking by the wrong measure here, I believe.
We don't have to win the Election.
We have to win the Election by such a margin that people who's ancestors have declared themselves Emperor for over a millenium despite lacking the votes recognize it.
If we beat the Wolf in some 8 to 6 result, he can just go home and stay Emperor of his part of the Empire, like many Ottilians, Reiklanders, Marienburgers and Middenlanders have done over many Elections.
And then the Empire breaks apart again.
It's like people are forgetting, over and over, that this is an extremely rare chance to reunite the Empire 300 years before it happened canonically.
Which took several miracles, the threat of an Everchosen coming down and an absolutely exceptional Emperor to manage.
Don't think we can play around with the title as we please, or the Age of Three Emperors can easily continue.
- Location
- Canada
Basically, we need Good Vibes™ to ensure none of the Bad Vibes™ built up over a millennium of infighting ruins the Empire again. We can't ignore the Sigmarites, considering their option got 3 votes we need to, at the very least, ensure they aren't actively opposed to the Wolf Emperor. And we're uniquely positioned to be acceptable to both the Ulricans and the Sigmarites as the Chancellor, since our track record shows we won't be okay with marginalizing either religion.
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- Location
- Burgundian Netherlands
Yes, you have a point in the abstract, but the situation now is a bit different from the end of the Dark Ages which brought forth Magnus.
- The most recent succesful election is a bit over 40 years ago, when the Grand Theogonist refused to crown Magritta of Marienburg. It is the more than three hundred years of bitter internecine conflict (where electors struggled to even make temporary alliances against the Von Carstein of the day) that made the miracle of Magnus necessary. This Empire is a different one from that: a succesful election is very much within living memory, it is the Grand Theogonist that the Ottillian and Wolf pretenders should be eyeing warily.
- The Conferences are signs of greater pan-Imperial cooperation than canonically was ever the case. Imperial Unity is not an empty phrase, the past few years show that it lives.
- There is a valid assembly of all electors which considers it imperative to produce a valid Emperor. Once we do actually have an Emperor, electing a second one will go significantly easier.
That being said, I agree we should definitely not botch this election. Winds are in favour of electing an Emperor, but things could go south quickly again, hence why it is so important the GT collaborates with us.
The information that the Wolf Emperor is suborned by vampires is useful for exactly that reason, because 1) even if we never use that information, it is about convincing the GT that he can safely vote Wolf Emperor without excluding the possibility of a Sigmarite Emperor. It is also life insurance, because: 2) Todbringer's Ulrican Supremacist and realpolitik tendencies mean that down the line we might need a way to stop him whatever the cost. 3) Toddy will likely not be Emperor forever, in fact the cards are stacked against him with Vlad coming back. If he dies, a new election happens anyway, and this could be at least a way to snatch the crown away from his successor/discredit him/firmy establish us as his successor.
It's quite unlikely that Tod's a sleeper agent since he's been raised by the ar ulric since he was a boy and he's likely quite well Versed in finding corruption and any ill intent else the toddy would be dead by now. Also while Todbringer is more less not always following the ar ulric advice it seems more like he wants to he his own man rather than follow his foster fathers advice always.
Also the fact that vlad the main reason his faction survived the 4 four way war and got to become the powerhouse they became cause they swooped in the perfect moment to help recover from the attacks of reikland,Nordland, the beastmen of the drakwald, and the asrai assault to the point they counterattacked and managed to conquer Nordland and beat back and start taking bites out of reikland.
So I would why Tod's was not really willing to stop his alliance with since to him he really saved his back cause if it weren't for vlad he couldn't have had that comeback and rise to power Over his rivals.
Also vlad while cunning he's not a four 4d chess player that's his son mannfred he's a warrior a general and ruler sure he's quite good but he's not gonna be type make a long con about someone that easily could be found out especially since one of someone's closest people is the leader of one of the strongest religions in fighting darkness.
Also if he was a puppet to vlad he'd very well could have not joined in the crossing cause I don't think that vlad would want his entire army being destroyed and him being killed in the process. And his plans being ruined. So I'm not believing he's compromised yet. And the fact that his retinue is the white Wolves whose leader jerek kruger who otl has killed vlad multiple times in fair fights is gonna let his lord be compromised. And I don't think if he was 4d chessing is letting konrad von carstein being leader of his forces and making a bloodbath out of wurtbad vlad want to rule an empire not a corpse of one and konrads actions really won't make him a good looking alternative.
Though the GT won't likely know that but he likely can be convinced of letting Tod win if only for the chance of unity and sigmarite in emperors chair next election.
Also If we want an extra vote we could try to get either marienburg or ostland since it's likely they can be swayed we'd likely need to spend more dice but it could be worth it.
You know with the knowledge van hal has we should give it to the wolf as well to help him crackdown on the threat it's likely the ar ulric who seems chill will jump at the chance to cleanse his Cult of the fallen and will likely thank us for it and the wolf emperor too and it would ingratiate us more to them so they'll trust us more and our say to them rises.
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- Location
- Over the next hill.
I was busy drafting this when you made the comment.
[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire
[X] Engage with a Noble, Notable or Cult Cost: 200 Marks per Die Must Beat: 50 1 Die
--[X] Imperialists
---[X] Thank them for their support of Wissenland's interests. Inform them that we will not be personally seeking Imperial Candidacy at this time. We were open to it in our talks with the Grand Theogonist, but practically and politically taking the Imperial Throne would not be the best course of action for Wissenland. Even if we could snatch the crown at the last minute, we would be challenged not only by Sylvania but also the resurgent Reikland and Middenland. We were optimistic at first that a bid for the throne was possible, but the flipping of much of the electors allied with us in the Conference to Middenland has sapped our momentum. As the current situation stands, it is impossible for Wissenland to gain the necessary amount of votes to win the throne of the Empire without contest. Assuming the throne without a majority of the electors would simply invite conflict that Wissenland would struggle to bear the cost of. Point out the weary state of the Iron Companies, particularly the heavy losses of the Elector's Own. Remind them that was without direct confrontation with Von Carstein. Bring up as well our current monetary woes. We're already struggling with fulfilling our duty to the wellbeing of the province while fighting the threat of vampirism abroad. Ask them at the very least for their understanding in our decision. If they look agreeable, propose to them that the best course of action if they wish to see an Iron Emperor on the throne in the future would be to help persuade the GT and our other supporters to go along with us and secure influence for Wissenland as Imperial Chancellor. If we can gain the GT's endorsement, we can definitively usurp Reikland as the head of the Sigmarite faction in Imperial politics and be in prime position to become Emperor when Middenland's time has past.
-[X] The Dunstigfurt Election Cost: 500 Marks per Die Must Beat: 75 per Elector met
--[X] Middenland: We get him two votes and the GT's assent, Todbringer is responsible for finding his final vote. We become Chancellor and march with him on Stirland, with our full force or part of it. As a sweetener, offer our surplus stock of old guns as a discount to help contribute to rebuilding Middenland's army. 3 Die
--[X] Grand Theogonist : We try to convince the GT that with the invasion of Stirland the calculus of Imperial influence for the Sigmarites has changed. Whoever wins the election must defend Stirland immediately or risk a loss of legitimacy at the start of their reign. In this time of crisis, whoever holds the Imperial Crown will be weakened as long as the threat of Sylvania and the undead remains. The throne is more a burden than a benefit. Inform the GT of Middenland's problem with Sylvanian infiltrators and the corruption in the Ulrican Church. Middenland in our opinion is the only shot of of uniting the Empire at this time but will weaken once the cost of war with Sylvania ramps up. Their battered armies and a long war with Sylvania will reduce Ulrican influence in the Empire. If they want to weaken their Ulrican rivals for the foreseeable future it's actually in their best interest to let them ascend the throne. If Stirland falls thats one less Sigmarite Imperial province in the Empire and the weakening of the Sigmarite faction in the long term. Convince him that voting for Reikland is a bad idea. They will never get the required votes with the Middenlanders working against them and will not win against the tested and veteran Todbringer. If the Empire as an idea and a united force is to survive, sacrifices in the short term must be made to Sigmarite influence. Remind him that if our deal goes through with Middenland we'll be able to advocate Sigmarite interests through the Imperial council as Chancellor. The Sigmarite faction is not served by us putting our head on the chopping block immediately after being crowned. We need the GT to vote with us, or at least not refuse the crown. 3 Die
--[X] Ostermark: If the GT for some reason does not want to vote with us: We agree to bankroll the rebuilding of their State Troop, and they vote Middenland, as per the original deal. 2 Die
-[X] Direct the Iron Companies Must Beat: 50 2 Die
--[X] Depart for Stirland, bypassing Wurtbad and entering through Kemperbad into the Stirhugel and secure lower Stirland.
-[X] The Imperial Gunnery School Cost: 2,000 Marks, 1,000 Materials and 1,000 Food per Die Must Beat: 100 3 Die
-[X] Deploy Agents Cost: 400 Marks and 40 Materials per Die Must Beat: Stirland 100 3 Die
--[X] Spy on and monitor Sylvanian assets in Stirland.
-[X] The Wissenland Road Network Cost: 1,500 Marks and 400 Materials per Die 1 Die
--[X] Wurmgrube-Meissen Road - 0/300 (Includes the Harrach Bridge across the River Harrach)
Total Cost: 12900 Marks, 3520 Materials, 3000 Food
Credits to @Siual for the write-ins for the election. I did remove some parts about having dirt on Middenland as I wasn't sure if we could bring that up and back it up in the future. Rephrased this as giving them the information about their internal problems. Instead I chose to elaborate on other points. The Imperial Throne is a white elephant and is sure to weaken anyone who wields it at this time. Also brought up the other Sigmarite Candidate he can back in Reikland. It's not a good idea for him to vote for them because he simply can't get the required votes with the Middenlanders ascendant and not having contributed to the defeat of Vlad.
For the rest of the plan:
- Chose to depart for Stirland through Kemperbad for two reasons: in order to defend unoccupied Stirland as well as to secure Wissenland's border. If the deals fall through, then we'll have to make sure that Nuln and the rest of Wissenland proper is properly defended.
- Chose to take the Imperial Gunnery School action again in order to re-affirm our alliance with Ostermark. They'll need all the help they can get defending against Vlad. This should also help us get their vote so we'll at least have two to give to Middenland.
- Using our spies in Stirland to make sure Konrad doesn't get the jump on us and to make sure we can track his movements.
- For our province actions, I chose to continue building the road network as well invest in improving the facilities of the College of Engineering. The road network is a long term project. Once we build all the roads leading to Meissen. We can spam improvements on it and get more income from our personal domain. The College of Engineering is vital for all our civilian tech projects that boost income. We're already having problems with the Fertilizer and don't get its full bonus and that's only going to worsen the more civilian projects we try to research. If we're ever to have ambitions at invading Sylvania and ending it's threat we'll need boatloads of money to do it. Money we won't get fast enough just building infrastructure.
The biggest boost to our income at this point in time is to devote dice to the Grissenwald. We're currently losing 2000 marks a turn while we fund the slow expansion to it's fortifications. I didn't manage to include it in this plan because of the Imperial Gunnery School. The synergy between strengthening our most reliable ally and getting a better chance at getting a second vote was too good to pass up. We can still afford losses in our net income of marks but once our stockpile gets to 20,000 we'll be severely hampering our ability to send an expedition out after we recall the Iron Companies.
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[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire
Can we also put in that we inform him of the corruption in his provinces and the clergy and if he isn't really aware how extensive we can show him it and he'll give it to the ar ulric and they'll likely thank us and give us more rapport with them making our place as chancellor more comfortable to them since we helped them out in a vampire corruption problem they have. Also say we can support you in fighting against the corruption as too further make inroads with them.
Hey let's look like we are being the better man and not abide by just one religion and try help them all.
[X] Plan Saving Stirland and the Empire
- Location
- Over the next hill.
Sure why not? I'll add it to the plan.