The Moon's Fall (Worm AU, The Wolf Time sequel)

Hmm, just how far did Taylor go past the control threshold at Winslow, then? IIRC, after the whole mess with Taylor getting outed, Winslow needed major renovation due to the damage from the fight.

If it was a horizon then she was no longer in sight of it. :lol

In seriousness, on that occasion Taylor pretty much kept pushing her forms higher until she no longer had the mental capacity to do so. Which is a bit like losing the mental capacity to choose to let go of something. She was entirely berserk in that fight and while it granted her an awful lot of strength it remains a useless power for her.
 
If it was a horizon then she was no longer in sight of it. :lol

In seriousness, on that occasion Taylor pretty much kept pushing her forms higher until she no longer had the mental capacity to do so. Which is a bit like losing the mental capacity to choose to let go of something. She was entirely berserk in that fight and while it granted her an awful lot of strength it remains a useless power for her.
So in short, if Taylor goes Lou Fegerno, the best thing you can do is aim her and get clear.
 
This is the fundamental failure of Cauldron. They damned trillions of humanity to death or back to the stone age and worse, because they did not understand morality. Or faith.

Morals are not, as materialists are wont to suppose, merely an affectation to appeal to our primitive emotional natures. They are the tools whereby humanity navigates through places where his intellect and logic are too limited to see. And much as an airplane pilot must learn to trust his instruments before he trusts his ears or eyes or other senses, even in fact when those senses are all screaming the exact opposite of what his instruments say, so humanity has to trust-- has to have faith-- that those moral values really are timeless and eternal and true and that they will guide him safely home... even when all his selfish pragmatism is screaming that the easy way rather than the right way will produce more satisfying results.

Cauldron lost that faith. Bereft of that guidance, they fell back further and further on their own nearsighted, near-blind material pragmatism to the point that they put all their faith for the future in Contessa's "Path to Victory"-- which was in the end nothing more than intel provided by the very enemy they were trying to fight.

Never seeing that they took the easy Path, rather than the right one.

Had they simply had faith-- in right vs. wrong, in the rest of humanity-- if they had simply shared their knowledge with the rest of mankind to research, if they had openly provided their powers-in-a-bottle to all of humanity, rather than waiting and hoping that one of their unethical experiments or worse, some random Trigger would produce their salvation, their possible paths to victory would have increased ten thousandfold. But because they decided that they, and their Contessa, were wiser and better than all the rest of humanity, that they needed to abandon morality for cold equations, that they could ignore the instruments on their panel, they reduced their chances down to one bitter path... and in the end it was providence alone and the determination of one girl to do the right thing even with what few options their folly had left her, that saved Earth and all its counterparts from annihilation.
 
This is the fundamental failure of Cauldron. They damned trillions of humanity to death or back to the stone age and worse, because they did not understand morality. Or faith.

Morals are not, as materialists are wont to suppose, merely an affectation to appeal to our primitive emotional natures. They are the tools whereby humanity navigates through places where his intellect and logic are too limited to see. And much as an airplane pilot must learn to trust his instruments before he trusts his ears or eyes or other senses, even in fact when those senses are all screaming the exact opposite of what his instruments say, so humanity has to trust-- has to have faith-- that those moral values really are timeless and eternal and true and that they will guide him safely home... even when all his selfish pragmatism is screaming that the easy way rather than the right way will produce more satisfying results.

Cauldron lost that faith. Bereft of that guidance, they fell back further and further on their own nearsighted, near-blind material pragmatism to the point that they put all their faith for the future in Contessa's "Path to Victory"-- which was in the end nothing more than intel provided by the very enemy they were trying to fight.

Never seeing that they took the easy Path, rather than the right one.

Had they simply had faith-- in right vs. wrong, in the rest of humanity-- if they had simply shared their knowledge with the rest of mankind to research, if they had openly provided their powers-in-a-bottle to all of humanity, rather than waiting and hoping that one of their unethical experiments or worse, some random Trigger would produce their salvation, their possible paths to victory would have increased ten thousandfold. But because they decided that they, and their Contessa, were wiser and better than all the rest of humanity, that they needed to abandon morality for cold equations, that they could ignore the instruments on their panel, they reduced their chances down to one bitter path... and in the end it was providence alone and the determination of one girl to do the right thing even with what few options their folly had left her, that saved Earth and all its counterparts from annihilation.
I see where you're going with this, and in some situations it would work. But not all of them.

You seem to have an unshakeable faith in humanity to do the right thing when it comes down to it. I'm not so certain.

Open-sourcing the tools to save the world would work ... right up until you handed them to a Jack Slash, or a Sleeper, or a Nilbog. Or, for that matter, to a Sophia Hess. Or a post-Sophia Emma Barnes. Or a Maxwell Anders. Or a Bradley Meadows.

There are those, to quote Alfred Pennyworth, who just want to see the world burn. And even of those who want to see it saved, many of those have strong views on who deserves to be saved ... and some of those would dress it up in 'morals' and say "I am right, because my beliefs say that these people are wrong".

Would you, for instance, give Legend and Arthur just as much chance to survive as Taylor and Brian? Or would Lily and Sabah have the same right to live as they please as would Regent and Aisha? I seem to recall that you have a distinct predisposition against homosexuality; would you let that colour your views on who gets to be saved and who gets discarded? And if a good Christian man like yourself cannot be trusted to be absolutely evenhanded, on the strength of your moral beliefs, then who can?

No, morals will not win the day, here.

Cauldron screwed up, yes. But they were dealt a crappy hand, and were constrained by what they had; secret access to a source of powers. It's very hard to let that go into the hands of others, to hand over control. And Contessa's PtV canonically averted a lot of crises from behind the scenes. So their sin wasn't so much in the execution as the planning. And even then, the data they based their planning on was crappy.

What they needed to do was get a good plan, then assign someone to carry it out who would not balk at the cost. In times like that, when the future of humanity is at stake, I would more likely trust a ruthless bastard at the helm than someone guided by an internal moral compass. Morality implies that there are things that you will not do. If I'm going to put my faith in someone to save me, I want to know that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it done.
 
I see where you're going with this, and in some situations it would work. But not all of them.

You seem to have an unshakeable faith in humanity to do the right thing when it comes down to it. I'm not so certain.

Open-sourcing the tools to save the world would work ... right up until you handed them to a Jack Slash, or a Sleeper, or a Nilbog. Or, for that matter, to a Sophia Hess. Or a post-Sophia Emma Barnes. Or a Maxwell Anders. Or a Bradley Meadows.

There are those, to quote Alfred Pennyworth, who just want to see the world burn. And even of those who want to see it saved, many of those have strong views on who deserves to be saved ... and some of those would dress it up in 'morals' and say "I am right, because my beliefs say that these people are wrong".

Would you, for instance, give Legend and Arthur just as much chance to survive as Taylor and Brian? Or would Lily and Sabah have the same right to live as they please as would Regent and Aisha? I seem to recall that you have a distinct predisposition against homosexuality; would you let that colour your views on who gets to be saved and who gets discarded? And if a good Christian man like yourself cannot be trusted to be absolutely evenhanded, on the strength of your moral beliefs, then who can?

No, morals will not win the day, here.

Cauldron screwed up, yes. But they were dealt a crappy hand, and were constrained by what they had; secret access to a source of powers. It's very hard to let that go into the hands of others, to hand over control. And Contessa's PtV canonically averted a lot of crises from behind the scenes. So their sin wasn't so much in the execution as the planning. And even then, the data they based their planning on was crappy.

What they needed to do was get a good plan, then assign someone to carry it out who would not balk at the cost. In times like that, when the future of humanity is at stake, I would more likely trust a ruthless bastard at the helm than someone guided by an internal moral compass. Morality implies that there are things that you will not do. If I'm going to put my faith in someone to save me, I want to know that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it done.
To be fair, it isn't as clear cut as that.

There were points, that regardless of the shitty situation they could have chosen not to compromise, not to step one foot closer outside of their humanity. And it may be meta-knowledge, but we do know that much wouldn't have changed if they had been quite a bit less cold about morality and seen things through with a more humane perspective.

Were they dealt a shitty hand? Sure. Did they did the best they could with what they had and within their capabilities? Absolutely, but none of those mean that there were no roads not taken, nor does the good they did excuse them from the actual crimes against humanity they committed.
 
Didn't the Entities have a habit of genociding the people if it becomes common knowledge about them and their power granting? An ingrained habit from the few times some Entities attempted to co-operate with civilizations tended to result in the civilization eventually rebelling regardless.
 
This is the fundamental failure of Cauldron. They damned trillions of humanity to death or back to the stone age and worse, because they did not understand morality. Or faith.

Morals are not, as materialists are wont to suppose, merely an affectation to appeal to our primitive emotional natures. They are the tools whereby humanity navigates through places where his intellect and logic are too limited to see. And much as an airplane pilot must learn to trust his instruments before he trusts his ears or eyes or other senses, even in fact when those senses are all screaming the exact opposite of what his instruments say, so humanity has to trust-- has to have faith-- that those moral values really are timeless and eternal and true and that they will guide him safely home... even when all his selfish pragmatism is screaming that the easy way rather than the right way will produce more satisfying results.

Cauldron lost that faith. Bereft of that guidance, they fell back further and further on their own nearsighted, near-blind material pragmatism to the point that they put all their faith for the future in Contessa's "Path to Victory"-- which was in the end nothing more than intel provided by the very enemy they were trying to fight.

Never seeing that they took the easy Path, rather than the right one.

Had they simply had faith-- in right vs. wrong, in the rest of humanity-- if they had simply shared their knowledge with the rest of mankind to research, if they had openly provided their powers-in-a-bottle to all of humanity, rather than waiting and hoping that one of their unethical experiments or worse, some random Trigger would produce their salvation, their possible paths to victory would have increased ten thousandfold. But because they decided that they, and their Contessa, were wiser and better than all the rest of humanity, that they needed to abandon morality for cold equations, that they could ignore the instruments on their panel, they reduced their chances down to one bitter path... and in the end it was providence alone and the determination of one girl to do the right thing even with what few options their folly had left her, that saved Earth and all its counterparts from annihilation.

Most people don't like to think about it this way, but Cauldron's activities were actually based entirely on faith. Faith in Contessa's power. She proved her power worked when she helped Dr. Mother kill Eden with a knife. But Eden damaged her power. She could no longer directly seek Scion's death, she could only seek humanity's survival.

It's a different kind of faith, but it's still faith, because as far as I know (especially considering her last conversation with Kephri) Contessa couldn't predict the outcomes of individual steps that her power required to follow the path to victory. Even knowing that Eden had at least partially broken her power, Contessa had to have faith that her power was giving her correct information. The rest of Cauldron had faith in her as well, though PtV actions might have ensured they were faithful.
 
Didn't the Entities have a habit of genociding the people if it becomes common knowledge about them and their power granting? An ingrained habit from the few times some Entities attempted to co-operate with civilizations tended to result in the civilization eventually rebelling regardless.
I seem to recall there being a mention of Entities having to abandon their efforts on some worlds because the population fought back violently, killing the enhanced individuals as fast as they emerged.

Whether this resulted in genocide or just leaving the planet behind, I don't recall.
 
Pretty sure that the blowing up the planets is both part of there natural life-cycle and part of how they propel themselves back into space.
 
To be fair, it isn't as clear cut as that.

There were points, that regardless of the shitty situation they could have chosen not to compromise, not to step one foot closer outside of their humanity. And it may be meta-knowledge, but we do know that much wouldn't have changed if they had been quite a bit less cold about morality and seen things through with a more humane perspective.

Were they dealt a shitty hand? Sure. Did they did the best they could with what they had and within their capabilities? Absolutely, but none of those mean that there were no roads not taken, nor does the good they did excuse them from the actual crimes against humanity they committed.

Beware anyone who thinks that they are the only ones competent enough to make decisions for humanity. They inevitably outsmart themselves.
 
Beware anyone who thinks that they are the only ones competent enough to make decisions for humanity. They inevitably outsmart themselves.
This is why you pick someone who's competent, and has proven themselves able to do the job.

I might also say "Beware anyone who thinks that a moral structure designed to keep civilisation going in times of plenty is in any way adequate to give direction in times when letting the wrong person live for thirty seconds too long could screw everyone."
 
Does anyone know any way to get rid of the autosaved draft function for this site? If I delete a post and decide not to post it, I don't want my draft popping up every time I return to this thread! The only way I know of is to actually post something which is exactly what I didn't want to do! v.v
 
This is why you pick someone who's competent, and has proven themselves able to do the job.

I might also say "Beware anyone who thinks that a moral structure designed to keep civilisation going in times of plenty is in any way adequate to give direction in times when letting the wrong person live for thirty seconds too long could screw everyone."

The Romans understood this. In times of war that was dangerous to the nation, they appointed a military commander to lead. Example: Caesar.

It was dangerous to the Republic to appoint a dictator, but there were times when it seemed more dangerous to not appoint a single competent person to lead.
 
Does anyone know any way to get rid of the autosaved draft function for this site? If I delete a post and decide not to post it, I don't want my draft popping up every time I return to this thread! The only way I know of is to actually post something which is exactly what I didn't want to do! v.v

Erase the post, then click on the image of the 3.5 inch floppy, and select save draft.

Saving a deleted draft clears the draft history.
 
Testing this out, because I have no idea where this supposed "floppy disk icon" is. It's not anywhere on the two bars of icons I have on top of this post.

Ah HAH! 5th icon from the left, top row. To the left of the Bold icon, if you click it, it has a dropdown saying "Save Draft" and "Delete Draft".
 
Huh, well this is an odd way to get reminded of a fic. However I'm afraid that the necromancy in this case is something of a failure. Most likely this fic is going to be staying dead. Mainly because of the massive drop in interest compared to the previous story in the series, alongside my flagging interest in Worm as a setting.

Anyone who likes Warframe should keep an eye out though. I'm thinking of a Warframe crossover as my next fic.

Morals are not, as materialists are wont to suppose, merely an affectation to appeal to our primitive emotional natures.

No, they're an evolved tool that enables us to function effectively as a social species and have therefore allowed us to become the dominant species on this planet. Something any evolutionary psychologist would be happy to explain to you at length.

If I'm going to put my faith in someone to save me, I want to know that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it done.

Some would call that cowardice.
 
However I'm afraid that the necromancy in this case is something of a failure. Most likely this fic is going to be staying dead. Mainly because of the massive drop in interest compared to the previous story in the series, alongside my flagging interest in Worm as a setting.
What? Aw... That makes me sad :( I was looking forward to this.
 
What? Aw... That makes me sad :( I was looking forward to this.

I'm not saying it's certain, but you gotta understand that it's a lot of work to write something this size and with the way interest has dropped over time it just doesn't feel worth it any more, especially when I have so many other ideas I can work on instead.

From my side of things it's been clear that interest peaked during Coyote and has dropped ever since (likely in no small part due to Alpha being a poor arc and that leading to me taking a second hiatus) so that by the time Wyld finished I had maybe half the readers I started out with. Then almost nobody came over to the sequel and it just stopped feeling like there was any point in continuing.

Especially given that the first arc to be posted was something I came up with at the last minute to better introduce things, but that I ended up realising was just pointless bloat. Unfortunately too late for removing the Lost arc to do anything but kill reader interest even deader than it already is.

In short, I'm grateful for you lot for staying interested for this long, but as much as I like my ideas for where this fic was going, it just feels...

Will it be a Wormframe fic or a Warframe/something else cross?

I'm currently writing previews for four possibilities.

XCOM xover

Mass Effect xover

Okami xover

Dresden Files xover

Which one(s) get expanded will depend on the response to them.

EDIT: Huh, weird timing, looks the sequel to Worm has gone up recently. I wonder if that might reinvigorate the fandom or have the exact opposite effect.
 
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Then almost nobody came over to the sequel and it just stopped feeling like there was any point in continuing.
To be fair, I almost missed the sequel as well. But that was because I just didn't notice that it was being posted in a second thread.

Alright, I know nothing about this, except Aliens!

More knowledge about this, almost always a fun cross

I... Don't see exactly how a Warframe/Okami cross will work, but it sounds... interesting?

I know absolutely crap about Dresden files, other than it has magic and he is like some sort of Constantine-esque person.
 
To be fair, I almost missed the sequel as well. But that was because I just didn't notice that it was being posted in a second thread.

Yeah, I did get the impression that was an issue as well. Might start posting stuff in the Wormverse threads again if I start it back up.

I... Don't see exactly how a Warframe/Okami cross will work, but it sounds... interesting?

Well they both have a mother goddess in my book, seems like there's a lot of mileage in them interacting :D
 
Yeah, I did get the impression that was an issue as well. Might start posting stuff in the Wormverse threads again if I start it back up.
Hopefully that is the case and with Ward starring an un-pancaked Victoria may provide a jolt of inspiration.

Though if the Wolf Trilogy is dead, will there be an outline post similar to the one you made when Ceaseless ended?


Well they both have a mother goddess in my book, seems like there's a lot of mileage in them interacting :D

And of course every Tenno, be it in their Warframe or when awake, will immediately demand to pet the Good doG.
 
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