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The MarvelS

Shanejayell said:
Just saw a spoiler on the end scene . If it's correct.... DAMN.
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Probably, yes.

The film was fine - not as good as some of Marvel's best, but not as bad as some others either. The story was pretty simple and straightforward, the character interactions between the leads were fun, and nothing about it was objectionable to me. Plenty of funny bits, too. The primary critic I'd offer is that is a bit thin on substance, but I honestly never expect much of that from these movies - it's nice when you get one that has some, but most don't and that's fine. I'd say, of the most recent offerings, I'd put it as better than Love and Thunder, about on par with Multiverse of Madness or Wakanda Forever. It's a fine watch as long as having a very simple plot isn't a downside to you. Also, it's short and fast, which fits it.
 
Definately a very fun movie, and really short, which is something of a shocker to me. So used to these 2:30 run time films from marvel that one coming in under 2 kind of shocks me. Ending bit was pretty damn funny, and the mid-credit scene was a shocker.
 
I enjoyed it, overall. Was fun seeing the three heroes team up, although I think that one of them was introduced in this film via a short few lines? Got powers from a witch barrier, apparently. We also learned where the MCU space transport network came from, which was neat.

The mid credits scene was confusing to me though. No clue what it meant.
 
Mizu said:
The mid credits scene was confusing to me though. No clue what it meant.
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The theme of a number of the most recent Marvel movies/TV shows has been traveling to alternate realities, that is, Earths where history developed differently - the last Doctor Strange movie had him going to a universe with a different group of Avengers, for example. The mid-credit scene is teasing that a specific reality with some very fan favorite characters might be about to be folded in the main MCU.
 
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I saw it, thought it was really good. Kamala's family were adorable, the bits with the cats made me laugh... no real gripes other than Monica figuring out what to do REALLY fast at the end there.

The ALL SINGING planet was hilarious, and
YES it's the X-Men. HOLY SHIT. *lol*
 
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king208 said:
That sucks. It was a fun movie, and some asshole at Disney is absolutely going to use this to kill further movies with female leads. :(
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Forget about killing movies with female leads, this bomb's so fant4stic I wouldn't be surprised if metaphorical heads started rolling.

edit- edited because I realized an appropriate move pun I could make
 
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king208 said:
That sucks. It was a fun movie, and some asshole at Disney is absolutely going to use this to kill further movies with female leads. :(
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That's part of the problem with the thinking though for everyone involved to look at this say "The problem is a female led movie."

I don't think that's really the case, at least in the sense of "people hate movies with female leads". I think there's a disconnect between the audience and creators when it comes to making these movies.

I haven't seen this yet... will probably be a streamer for me... but I can see holes here that go way beyond "stupid sexist people" or incels or whatever.

Captain Marvel just hasn't been a huge draw for the MCU. There's several reasons and i'm sure not everyone has the same reasons. For me personally, I just generally despise Brie Larson and think she's a bit toxic when doing the media rounds for these things. I like the character, don't like the actor. After a couple of rewatches, I like Captain Marvel than I originally did... but it almost makes me more angry they went with Larson. The MOVIE is fine. She just sucks and it detracts from the movie. An odd example of the reverse of what usually happens... character is good, actor sucks.

Ms. Marvel just doesn't have the draw ability for a co-lead. She's from the least watched Disney Plus show... again probably several reasons went into that as well. I can only speak personally, I watched the first couple episodes. Very much felt like I wasn't the target audience... which is ok... and was generally just uninterested in what was being presented. Nothing about it was "bad", just didn't appeal to me.

Monica is from Wandavision, which was a great show all around... but was also a fairly small part of that.

Now combine those three not particularly popular leads into a movie together... i'm not sure why anyone expected the combo to suddenly do great things. The movie had the deck stacked against it from the jump. But also... the demographics are also a thing. These movies, while they can be enjoyed by all, definitely have a core demographic. Marvel seems very intent on... not marketing to their core demographic. It's clear it hasn't been working.

But in the grand scheme, just relying on "people didn't like it because female lead" I think is missing aspects of the argument. People in general seem interested in a Scarlet Witch movie. I know *I* am. I was excited for a Black Widow movie, it just happened in an odd way. I was excited for She-Hulk but then like, whatever the hell that was happened.
 
The wheels have been coming off the Marvel train for awhile now, and it sucks that The Marvels is the film that jumps the tracks (and gives ammo to the "go woke go broke!" crowd). Like, not surprised it sounds pretty fun and light on its feet, but at the same time the MCU has hit the exact same problem its comic counterpart did - there's too much damn homework.

Like, just to get a handle on the major characters and conflicts for this movie you'd need to watch (or be familiar with the broad strokes of):
  • Captain Marvel
  • Avengers: Endgame
  • Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and/or Loki S1
  • WandaVision
  • Ms. Marvel
  • Secret Invasion
Plus Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, Hawkeye and the Singerverse Fox X-Men movies to make sense of the end credit's tags. All combined that's like twenty+ hours of TV and film you need to understand just to get to the movie's status quo at the start, which it's necessarily going to have to blow up in order to get the plot going.

Pre-Endgame and D+, Marvel released like four (max) movies a year, with the connective tissue between them largely confined to either quick cameos or the end credits stingers. The plots were largely self-contained, and if the story did need to lean on another entry (Iron Man 3, Civil War, etc.) it oftentimes just used the biggest, broadest strokes of that entry so as not to lock people out.
 
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I mean, that might be true in some cases - certainly for Ant-Man Quantumania, for example - but I feel like you'd easily be able to follow along with this movie by having seen only the original Captain Marvel. Yes, plenty of other stuff is hinted at, but no more than it was in, say, Iron Man 3 or Captain America Winter Soldier, which both only required you to have seen The Avengers to be understood. I do agree that most people would expect the movie to require the investment and not go see it because of that, but when you actually watch it, that's not the case.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
The wheels have been coming off the Marvel train for awhile now, and it sucks that The Marvels is the film that jumps the tracks (and gives ammo to the "go woke go broke!" crowd). Like, not surprised it sounds pretty fun and light on its feet, but at the same time the MCU has hit the exact same problem its comic counterpart did - there's too much damn homework.
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Its sort of fitting that the MCU and Disney would provide a master class in the limits of franchise IP and how far you can saturate a given story in a given period of time before people just start to check out.

But yeah, also sucks that this'll be used as ammo by assholes.
 
Triggerhappy said:
Its sort of fitting that the MCU and Disney would provide a master class in the limits of franchise IP and how far you can saturate a given story in a given period of time before people just start to check out.

But yeah, also sucks that this'll be used as ammo by assholes.
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Same thing happened with Ahsoka - it's supposed to be Disney's big marquee Star Wars event series that's meant to kick off their supersized D+ Crisis Crossover movie, and it's fucking impenetrable unless you've watched two separate cartoons totaling more than 200+ episodes and read a trilogy of airport novels back in the 90's (and the limp direction definitely doesn't help).

It's an easy trap to fall into - the turbofans who love that kind of leopointing.jpeg back-patting are very Loud and Online and seemingly a built-in, ready made audience that will guarantee endless profits...except said fans ultimately amount to a few thousand people on Reddit and social media and catering to them means everyone else is like "Wait what the fuck is going on? Who is this? What's a what now?"
 
Egleris said:
I mean, that might be true in some cases - certainly for Ant-Man Quantumania, for example - but I feel like you'd easily be able to follow along with this movie by having seen only the original Captain Marvel.
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Haven't seen the Marvels yet. Probably streaming for me. But making the movie stand on its own is really only half the battle.

So genre swerve. There's a card battler called Library Of Ruina that I've been wanting to play. I like card based video games. But it's a sequel to another game called Lobotomy Corporation.

So my fandom brain says, 'To do Ruina right, you need to play Lobotomy Corporation first'. That's how you get the best experience. That's want you're meant to do. The problem? I've bounced off Lobotomy Corporation multiple times, so I've never gotten around to playing Ruina.

And I'm sure I don't actually need to play Lobotomy Corporation. From what I've hear there's this whole deep lore connection but not to the degree that I can't jump straight into Library Of Ruina and pick up anything missing from a wiki.

But that doesn't quiet the part of my brain that says 'Nooooo. Play Lobotomy Corporation. That's how you get the most out of this. Do it right."

And I suspect the 'homework' argument for Marvels might work similarly. It's not that people can't understand the Marvels without watching the streaming shows. The Marvels likely explains everything you need to know. It's an idea that they're not meant to do it that way, that to get the best and intended existence they're meant to watch the streaming shows and only then watch The Marvels.

So people put off watching the Marvels until they do their homework and so can appreciate it properly, but for a lot of people, that might mean never seeing it at all.
 
It does. I haven't seen any of the streaming shows - or, in fact, Doctor Strange 2 - and I was perfectly able to understand what was going on in The Marvels and enjoy it.
 
Egleris said:
I mean, that might be true in some cases - certainly for Ant-Man Quantumania, for example - but I feel like you'd easily be able to follow along with this movie by having seen only the original Captain Marvel. Yes, plenty of other stuff is hinted at, but no more than it was in, say, Iron Man 3 or Captain America Winter Soldier, which both only required you to have seen The Avengers to be understood. I do agree that most people would expect the movie to require the investment and not go see it because of that, but when you actually watch it, that's not the case.
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I don't think that was quite what I was going for.

It's not that I think people are looking at the Marvels and saying "I haven't seen enough for this movie to make sense", it's "I haven't seen enough to care about this."

Trying to see a non-superfan, general moviegoer perspective... I can understand people in a similar demographic as me thinking "Captain Marvel kind of sucked, I didn't watch that Ms. Marvel show and don't care, and I don't know who that other lady is and/or "and... that one girl from Wandavision?"

It's not the fear of not being able to understand due to not having soon other materials, it's the general lack of draw for those characters. I think all of the characters are fine... but I don't think they have the gravitas to carry a movie, at least in the interest of the audience-at-large.

I'm sure this movie is fun. I'm gonna watch it. It is also probably the least excited I have been to see a Marvel movie. It's not "franchise fatigue" for me at all. I'm VERY amped up about some projects. They're just also doing stuff I don't care about.

There is a glimmer of hope that Disney is starting to understand what fans actually want to see. For the past few years, the response would have been "No, it's the fans that are wrong!" Now... with this, Daredevil getting massive reshoots, Cap America Brave New World getting pushed for reshoots, Blade crumbling... I think they're starting to realize the problem isn't "the fans".
 
I don't know about the rest of you but I'd rather not be accused to being 'racist' or 'toxic' because I've checked out of the MCU.

There IS such a thing as oversaturation, after all.
 
I mean, seems pretty simple to say "Eh I'm cool on the movie because I'm burnt out on the MCU and don't really care about these characters" vs. "This movie including minorities/known Man Hater Brie Larson is a clear insult to the True Marvel Fans and if the movie tanks it's because Disney decided to spite them by going Woke"

I dunno, just me
 
Tetrimus said:
I don't know about the rest of you but I'd rather not be accused to being 'racist' or 'toxic' because I've checked out of the MCU.

There IS such a thing as oversaturation, after all.
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I certainly don't feel racist about it. I've just plane checked out.

On some level, it's kinda comforting, the idea that franchises can still fall out of fashion, even if they've got the world's largest media machine behind them.

Shame about all the shitheads trying to make a culture war thing.

Arthur Frayn said:
It's an easy trap to fall into - the turbofans who love that kind of leopointing.jpeg back-patting are very Loud and Online and seemingly a built-in, ready made audience that will guarantee endless profits...except said fans ultimately amount to a few thousand people on Reddit and social media and catering to them means everyone else is like "Wait what the fuck is going on? Who is this? What's a what now?"
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Remember when the Star Wars Expanded universe was a just bookshelf at the back of Crown Books , and maybe some RPG handbooks, essential guides, comics, and videogames?

I remember.

I remember.
 
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