The Maple Seed Flies - Auto Gyro Design Quest

[X] A flying boat with an engine pod
[X] You simply have too much to do.

Flying botes are absolutely my jam, and if we're not chatting with our gf, we certainly aren't going for some dude.
 
[X] A float plane with a pusher engine
[X] You simply have too much to do.

Float planes!

Now watch as we get this contract just so that the Navy can refuse whatever cool thing Ohara's tame plane wizard has cooked up.
 
[X] A float plane with a pusher engine

Keep it simple, a float autogyro is just like a skid or a wheeled one except you put floats on it. Designing a boat hull is harder.

[X] You would love to accompany him.

I think this might be about the contract? In uniform in Europa might mean courting, in Akitsukuni the implication could be "here on business"? It's not clear but I don't want to miss the chance.
 
Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Oct 27, 2022 at 8:27 AM, finished with 8 posts and 8 votes.


I'm going to start working on a new update - if you'd like to influence the vote you have about 24 hours <3
 
Probably too late but...

[X] A float plane with a pusher engine
[X] You would love to accompany him.

The conversation will almost certainly turn to what the navy needs, and an hour out of the designer's day is a negligible trade for a naval aviator providing input on what does and does not work - so much about naval air ops goes beyond "just make a good plane and stick it on floats".
As for the layout, I have a particular pre-existing fondness for silly pusher autogyros:
 
3.2 - A Favour Scorned
Lunch? Your stomach growls, reminding you how long it's been since breakfast. And yet… you look down at the piles of paperwork stuffed haphazardly into the drawers of your desk. As much as you would love to take your lunch with this man in uniform, there is too much to do. You will have to send Kiko out to find something cheap, filling, and cold.

"Shinzo… I am afraid I simply do not have the time. Mr. Asano would find me wanting if I neglected my duties." You offer him what you hope is a sympathetic smile.

"Too busy with work?" He's clearly trying to be understanding, even as his expression crumples. He places a hand on the back of the chair facing your desk. "I had wanted to ask you a favour and hoped lunch would soften the blow of such a bold and hasty action. But if you have a few minutes, I can get it over and done with."

You sigh and place your hands on your hips, looking him up and down again. If he merely came to ask a favour, why dress up to such an extent? You can admit he looks decent enough in uniform, but–

A little voice in your head insists that if you invite him to stay, you could find out what he wants. But no. There is too much to do.

"I'm sorry. If it is, as I suspect, about the competition, I could perhaps force five minutes into my schedule. But otherwise…" You trail off with a frustrated shrug.

"The competition?" he asks, brow furrowed. "What competition?"

"The–"
you squint at him. What trick is he playing? "The seaplane competition? We are submitting a design?"

"Oh. Of course, that competition. Er…"
He laughs sheepishly. There's a discomfort there, beyond the already-present nervousness. "Try to make something that doesn't sink?"

"That is certainly our intention, yes."
You hold the pregnant silence, in wait for any further comments. When nothing seems forthcoming... "If there is nothing else?"

"I… I suppose not. Thank you for your time,
Baronesa." He offers another short bow, turns on his heel, and leaves. The door hangs open behind him, an echo of the man's strange visit.

You retrieve your tools and papers from the drawers and prepare to continue your work. But as you sit down, you find the block has returned. Had the Commander's visit unsettled you that badly? You can't help but think it had nothing to do with the Navy's competition, and yet you have no idea what else it could have been for. You're hardly even acquaintances, much less friends; for goodness' sake, you've only met the man once!

A grunt of frustration escapes you before you can hold it back. This is useless; you'll never get any work done while distracted. Either you start managing your diversions, or they will overwhelm you.

You open another drawer, pulling out a fresh sheet of paper. Drafting pencil still in hand, you begin to write.

"My dear Imiko…"

What should the letter contain? Choose two.

[ ] Use aircraft design as an excuse for lack of contact. (+1 Stress)
[ ] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[ ] Tell her you want to see her again. As friends. (+0 Stress)
[ ] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)
[ ] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)
[ ] Write in (Stress Determined By GM)

As you write, the sketches spread across your desk begin to come together. In the back of your mind, an aircraft, at least an idea of one, starts to take shape. Even now, you can tell the design will be a strange one, even by your own standards.

Aircraft design choices:
Tail construction?

[ ] Farman design around pusher prop.
[ ] Extended driveshaft with normal tail.
[ ] Rear-mounted pusher, unstable design.
Wing construction?
[ ] High aspect ratio monowing (low drag, low lift).
[ ] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift).
[ ] Sesquiplane with miniature second wing.
Engine choice?
[ ] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.
[ ] Find a new engine.
 
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)

And uh, I forget how airplane design works so maybe someone else has ideas.
 
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)

And uh, I forget how airplane design works so maybe someone else has ideas.

It doesn't. At least as I understand it. To really make the most of the plane builder, the design needs to be made all at once, but I'm not sure the plane builder works for autogyros yet, I'm way behind on Flying Circus.

[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
 
It doesn't. At least as I understand it. To really make the most of the plane builder, the design needs to be made all at once, but I'm not sure the plane builder works for autogyros yet, I'm way behind on Flying Circus.

The autogyro segment works *well enough* for our purposes. It's more like early ACDQ when the planes were a bit busted.
As for designing it all at once, we're handling that don't stress.

And yeah the stress breakpoint is 10.
 
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)

[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift).
I imagine landing on (choppy) water at high speed to be a bad idea, so something draggier and liftier seems right?

[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Extended driveshaft with normal tail.
I don't know enough to say which is better, but unstable doesn't seem right. We're not trying to make a stunt plane or a fighter that wants to do sick flips.
 
Last edited:
[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Extended driveshaft with normal tail.
I don't know enough to say which is better, but unstable doesn't seem right. We're not trying to make a stunt plane or a fighter that wants to do sick flips.
As best I can recall: Extended driveshaft is mechanical complexity (read: Reliability malus) that Damn Akitsukuni Engines can absolutely not afford. Farman is a bit of weight and a heap of drag that...we don't want, obviously, but is rather less likely to get a bunch of people killed straight off.
 
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift).
[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.
 
Last edited:
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)
(We're never gonna get anywhere if we don't push ourselves; and we're in just about the only place in the world where we can try to figure this out without turning our life/career into a dumpster fire)

[X] Farman design around pusher prop. (Both because a Farman tail is pretty basic and the KISS principle applies; and because the idea of a Farman tailed autogyro produces an incredibly cursed mental image and I must have it!)
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift). (Ships are slow enough that we shouldn't need too much speed for this to do its job; and a low stall/takeoff speed will be damn handy)
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design. (hopefully this will produce enough horsepower to make the thing fly; it would simplify things greatly. If we do wind up needing a bigger powerplant... burn that bridge when we get there)
 
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)

[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Sesquiplane with miniature second wing.
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.
 
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)
[X] Extended driveshaft with normal tail.
[X] High aspect ratio monowing (low drag, low lift)
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.

Don't feel qualified to speak on the subject of aircraft design, especially since some options don't actually explain their implications.
Maybe I should give the flying circus plane design rules a read, in theory that would leave autogyro mechanics the only remaining mystery.

EDIT: Rules read! Or most of the plane design rules anyways.
 
Last edited:
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)
[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] High aspect ratio monowing (low drag, low lift)
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.

If the radial were more powerful, I'd prefer that (a shorter engine makes overall packaging easier), but the Hornet was the middle option when it came to power (and the Hartmann would be a serious malus for a military contract). There'll likely be cooling issues with the lack of prop wash over the radiators, but with how slow this thing is, bigger, draggier radiators aren't a huge problem.

Ideally, we're looking for high lift, high drag, and the most reliability possible. Our unique selling point is that you can take off from the top of a turret and land right on the fantail, which means we need to be able to go slow and not have anything unexpected happen during landing.
 
As best I can recall: Extended driveshaft is mechanical complexity (read: Reliability malus) that Damn Akitsukuni Engines can absolutely not afford. Farman is a bit of weight and a heap of drag that...we don't want, obviously, but is rather less likely to get a bunch of people killed straight off.
Farman actually saves weight. However, it gives us a bunch of drag. An extended driveshaft adds mass, and the conventional tail would add mass relative to the Farman.

So it's really a question of weight vs drag.
An extended driveshaft would also make the hand-start easier, because hand-starting a plane with a Farman tail involves at least two people and ideally three. But we want this thing to have as low a stall speed as possible for a short take-off run. (if we get it low enough, with the wind from the right direction the autogyro could just take off from the deck)

And while drag hits top speed, mass hits stall speed, and I want a low stall speed. (I think if we can get the loaded stall speed to 3 or 4, that means that to get airborne we would only need an IAS of 10kph or 20kph respectively, although the autogyro would need to hug the deck to build up speed, and that IAS should be easy to reach if the ship steams into the wind)

[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift).
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.
 
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself. (+1 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her. (+2 Stress)
[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift).
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design.
 
Hey if you wanna vote in this you've got a couple of days to do so before I start working on the next update!
 
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality. (+2 Stress)

[X] Farman design around pusher prop.
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing (high drag, high lift)
[X] Reuse the Hornet from the previous design

Nothing fancy needed on either topic IMO. We've got to take some stress at this point but in ADCQ and GK five stress is an inflection point and I don't want to go wild with the stress here until we know what it looks like.
 
3.3 - Letters
[X] Communicate your anxiety around your sexuality (+2 Stress)
[X] Admit that you care for her (+2 Stress)
[X] Ask for help charting a new course and learning about yourself (+1 Stress)

"My Dear Imiko,

I realise how long it has been since I've responded to your missives, and that is a failing on my behalf. You have been nothing but patient with me, and for that I am truly grateful. But I must admit something to you. It is not simply my work that has kept me from replying.

Living in Akitsukuni has been more than a shock to my understanding of the world - it has opened my eyes to new things I never thought possible. The opportunities for my work - and for my passions - would have been unthinkable in my homeland. But there are also things I would have considered impossible before I came here and, if I must be honest (and I must), before I met you.

I did not know what you were before I was told. I do not think I told you that. You showed signs that in this society, in this cultural context, I was expected to be able to read. Where I am from, there is nothing like that. And yet coming here, living here, meeting you, I find myself wondering how it would feel to wear a bracelet and…

And what, I ask myself. I am filled close to bursting with self-doubt. I am paralysed by fear of judgement- not just from my peers, but from inside as well. Yet, conversely, when I think about spending more time with you and all those fears… They do not disappear. But they do recede.

I do not know what I want and I do not know what I can offer. And yet, I find myself inexorably drawn to you. I care for you and for your company more than I ever expected myself to.

Therefore, I would ask for one more boon from you, though I realise I have already asked for so much. Would you help me learn? I will make mistakes, and I will not conquer my fear in a single day. But I would like to try.

Fondly, Yours,
Helena de la Cierva."


There is a tremor in your hands as you fan the letter. Once the ink dries, it takes all your concentration to fold it neatly. You call Kiko and hand her the letter, informing her of its intended recipient. Once the door closes behind her, you finally take a real breath. It's out of your hands now. All you have to do is wait and work.

Stress: 8

---

[X] Farman design around pusher tail
[X] Reuse the Hornet engine
[X] Low aspect ratio monowing

The first actual sketches of the new autogyro arrive on your desk a few days later. These aren't just preliminary drawings done by you; these engineering plans have actual wing cross sections and strut plans to ensure the 'gyro stays together once constructed.

It's a strange-looking thing. With the engine mounted in the rear of the 'gyro, you've bracketed the tailplane around it; a technique you've borrowed from Farman's work. Its wings, barely doing the work of mounting the ailerons, are stubby and thick for maximum lift with minimum interference in airflow. Below these hang the floats that will let it take off and land from water, fulfilling its designed purpose.

There are still modifications to be made, though. Edits, suggestions, and wholesale scrapping of parts that don't work. Where to start–

Predicted watergyro stats:
Speed (Stall/Top): 50/110kph
Boost: 30kph
Stability: -6
Toughness/Strain 6/10
Cost: 8

Prioritise improvements to: (Each choice after the first adds +1 stress):

[ ] Stall Speed
[ ] Top Speed
[ ] Stability
[ ] Strain
[ ] Cost
[ ] Crew comfort
[ ] Crew capability
Deprioritise the: (Each choice cancels out the stress cost of a priority):
[ ] Stall Speed
[ ] Top Speed
[ ] Stability
[ ] Strain
[ ] Cost
[ ] I'd like another one here but I'm not sure what it should be

"Letter for you, Miss Cierva!" Kiku smiles as she drops the thin slip of folded paper on your desk. Lost as you were in your work, you had barely noticed her come in.

"What– Oh, thank you, Kiku." You pick it up, not seeing a name on the outside. "Do you have any idea as to who it is from?"

The girl gives another knowing smile and raises her eyebrows.

You sigh, turning it in your hands before unfolding the neatly creased writing paper. The message is short and to the point.

"Sweet Helena,

However complex the contents, I read your letter with joy. I cannot fully express my thoughts on paper. Dinner tonight? The same restaurant. See you there.

Yours,
Imiko."


"Dios Mio," you whisper, "I'm going to hell."

"What?"

"Oh, er," It takes a second to switch back into your shared language, "I've been invited to dinner."

You swear your drinking glass would have shattered if Kiku's squeal of excitement were any higher pitched. As it is, she almost vibrates into the air, hands clenched in front of her broad grin.

"What are you going to wear?"

"Wear? Kiku, I haven't even decided if I am going yet."

"Pfft, yes you have."


You frown. "Do I have to remind you who is in charge here?"

"Do I have to remind you who recommended that cafe?"
she replies.

Your glare doesn't last as it softens into a smile.

"No, I do not know what I'm going to wear, and I have too much work to even think about it until later."

"Okay. Can I tell Tomomi?"


You close your eyes and lean back in your chair. They are sure to have a field day with the news that you are seriously considering what cannot be called anything but a date with this woman.

"By all means. But I don't want you two gossiping when you have work to do."

"Okay!"
She almost bounces out of the room, looking back over her shoulder to fire off a final comment. "Have fun tonight!"

"Dios Mio," You repeat to yourself in the now quiet office.

- - -

"Helena!" Imiko calls, raising a hand in greeting. Your heart beats almost out of your mouth as you walk towards her, closing the gap. It's ten metres, then five.

Your stomach is roiling. You can barely catch a breath. Two metres. One metre.

You can reach out and touch her. You try to smile, uncertain if it's reaching your face. The blazing blush is overwhelming all other senses.

She's so close. You can smell her perfume. You can see the loose strand of hair that's escaped the scraped back bun. You can almost taste the deep red lipstick she's wearing.

You want to taste her lipstick.

Decide:
[ ] Kiss her. (+1 Stress)
[ ] Chicken out.

Hello! I'm breaking our usual pattern and posting today's update because my co-author, @4WheelSword, is currently dealing with some chronic pain.
 
Back
Top