The Lighthouses and the Pit (Fantasy Mage Quest)

Why is combat precog useless? It's really good for a fighter!

It also makes us more fearful so I don't know how useful that would actually be.

The reason I see a lot of, at first glance unintuitive, synergy in this combination are following:

Eh. I could see it if we use Severing Distance/Bladeleap + Elementalism to kite our opponents but y'gotta take a closer look. Coldhands are pretty situational, Fireyes have the worrying combination of obsession and the ability to burn our attributes, while Stormchasers are despairing, which is right out.

For us, I think the best would be Runesmiths or Thunderfist, as much of a basic bitch opinion that might be. Alchemist would be pretty good too, but I don't want our character to become mercurial.

If we're willing to switch up our build a bit, a Longshot knife wielder might be cool.
 
They would work on the bows, the problem is they would not affect the arrows.

- Bladebound magic works on any held weapon, if we were to lose our swords, we could just pick up another weapon and use it instead. It is a melee style, and excels at killing small numbers of strong enemies.
- Longshot magic, instead empowers projectiles. It is a ranged style, and is best at killing large numbers of weaker enemies.
What do you mean? A bow that transforms into a sword?


It was an idea i had that we could use Runesmithing if/when we got it to essentially combine Bladebound magic and Longshot, if/when we got it, magic. As in layers.
But i guess it was a long shot. Heh.

But of course, having to switch between sword and bow all the time is annoying and possibly even dangerous in mid-combat, so the obvious solution is to make them one and the same.
A magic sword that is also magically a magic bow. So you can freely decide when to shoot and when to cut/stab/slice, or even both at the same time.
Transforming is fine, but transforming takes time, so i'd rather have a magical sword-bow/bow-sword that is magically both without being awkward and stuff because magic.
 
It also makes us more fearful so I don't know how useful that would actually be.
Being afraid for your life is generally a good sign for future survival. Swallow will be less willing to take risks, which can be considered a good thing for both her safety and her ability to work with her team.
 
Eh. I could see it if we use Severing Distance/Bladeleap + Elementalism to kite our opponents but y'gotta take a closer look. Coldhands are pretty situational, Fireyes have the worrying combination of obsession and the ability to burn our attributes, while Stormchasers are despairing, which is right out.

For us, I think the best would be Runesmiths or Thunderfist, as much of a basic bitch opinion that might be. Alchemist would be pretty good too, but I don't want our character to become mercurial.

If we're willing to switch up our build a bit, a Longshot knife wielder might be cool.

The personality trait tag-alongs are a pain, but I wouldn't instantly dismiss them out of hand. For Coldhand we could team up with a Watersinger, of whom there are many in Everett. After we finish our year with the Bladebound we'll be able to travel and finding some allies/friends certainly wouldn't go amiss.

Stormchaser's despair, well, it's certainly far from ideal. But, I'd remind you the personality traits can be lessened or gotten rid of. As long as we strive to pick options that run counter to them. Furthermore, we currently have Hopeful, Compassionate and Stubborn. I don't know how pervasive the lighthouse emotional plastic surgery is, but hopefully (eh) existing traits could mitigate it, perhaps up to the point it just negates each other.

Besides, wouldn't it be awesome to sling bolts of lightning and call down thunderstorms as we carve a bloody path through the enemies?
 
It was an idea i had that we could use Runesmithing if/when we got it to essentially combine Bladebound magic and Longshot, if/when we got it, magic. As in layers.
But i guess it was a long shot. Heh.

But of course, having to switch between sword and bow all the time is annoying and possibly even dangerous in mid-combat, so the obvious solution is to make them one and the same.
A magic sword that is also magically a magic bow. So you can freely decide when to shoot and when to cut/stab/slice, or even both at the same time.
Transforming is fine, but transforming takes time, so i'd rather have a magical sword-bow/bow-sword that is magically both without being awkward and stuff because magic.
I don't see why you would be switching between bow and blade. A sword is used when you are close(1 - 2 meters) to the enemy, a bow when the enemy is distant(100 meters or more). At the most you would be switching once, first shooting charging enemies and then switch to blade when they get close.

It may be possible to enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp, but it would be a waste. Instead of enchanting a bow to cut, it would be better to enchant it so that arrows freeze what they hit.
 
Being afraid for your life is generally a good sign for future survival. Swallow will be less willing to take risks, which can be considered a good thing for both her safety and her ability to work with her team.
I'm quite sure 'fearful' means in general, not just being afraid for your life. She'd be less willing to take any risks, including with her team.

I don't see why you would be switching between bow and blade. A sword is used when you are close(1 - 2 meters) to the enemy, a bow when the enemy is distant(100 meters or more). At the most you would be switching once, first shooting charging enemies and then switch to blade when they get close.

It may be possible to enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp, but it would be a waste. Instead of enchanting a bow to cut, it would be better to enchant it so that arrows freeze what they hit.
For the first, that's only true when there's only one enemy. And Longshot is designed for multiple enemies. So something that is both sword and bow could potentially do both, at the same time. Also, a single weapon takes less space.
For the second one, i was under the impression that Runesmiths were far more versatile than to merely 'enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp' or shooting 'arrows(that) freeze what they hit'.

Edit: Also, it doesn't need to be sharp. Infinite Sharpness is something we already have.

They tend to have broad utility, able to forge items to do a great many things.
 
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I'm quite sure 'fearful' means in general, not just being afraid for your life. She'd be less willing to take any risks, including with her team.
Jagged Edge is the kind of teammate who benefits from and works well with people who don't take risks, and I want Swallow to stay with him for foreseeable future.
 
Jagged Edge is the kind of teammate who benefits from and works well with people who don't take risks, and I want Swallow to stay with him for foreseeable future.
Fearful doesn't actually mean 'doesn't take risks' though, it means being afraid of stuff.

And she's Stubborn. Does a stubborn person that get scared of things easily sound like someone that would work well with Jagged Edge? Or rather, does it sound like a person suitable for combat in general?

I think that's the most likely reason they're mostly administrators.
 
Fearful doesn't actually mean 'doesn't take risks' though, it means being afraid of stuff.

And she's Stubborn. Does a stubborn person that get scared of things easily sound like someone that would work well with Jagged Edge? Or rather, does it sound like a person suitable for combat in general?

I think that's the most likely reason they're mostly administrators.
We know it is possible for a Glimpse to be a combatant, since it is common knowledge that they have access to a combat precog path of magic. I don't think it is going to suddenly make Swallow a noncombatant.

(I do wonder why some powers have permanent emotional effects we consider bad when they aren't really superior to the powers that don't have "bad" emotional effects. Seems odd from a doylist perspective / balance )
 
For the first, that's only true when there's only one enemy. And Longshot is designed for multiple enemies. So something that is both sword and bow could potentially do both, at the same time. Also, a single weapon takes less space.
For the second one, i was under the impression that Runesmiths were far more versatile than to merely 'enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp' or shooting 'arrows(that) freeze what they hit'.
"that's only true when there's only one enemy." How does more than one enemy change the range swords/bows work at?
"So something that is both sword and bow could potentially do both, at the same time." I do not see how it is physically possible. Drawing a bow and using a sword require different motions. Even with a weapon capable of both, people are not able to do both at the same time.
"Also, a single weapon takes less space." Not really important.

"For the second one, i was under the impression that Runesmiths were far more versatile than to merely 'enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp' or shooting 'arrows(that) freeze what they hit'."
What?
Runesmiths are far far more versatile than that, that is my point.
You were the one who wants to make a sword act like a bow, or a bow act like a sword, not me. "it would be better to enchant it so that arrows freeze what they hit" was a single example of a better enchantment on a bow than the ability to use it as a sword.
There are many very useful enchantments that could be placed on a sword. There are many very useful enchantments that could be placed on a bow. It would be better to spend the effort on any of them rather than making a sword or bow able to be used as the other.


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Edit: Also, it doesn't need to be sharp. Infinite Sharpness is something we already have.
Ok, then what is the point of runesmithing a bow to be "'a magical sword-bow/bow-sword that is magically both"?
If Swallow is going to make the bow cut via Infinite Sharpness, then there is no point to a sword-bow
 
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Being afraid for your life is generally a good sign for future survival. Swallow will be less willing to take risks, which can be considered a good thing for both her safety and her ability to work with her team.
IIRC it's more that glimpses are fearful to the point where it seriously affects their ability to actually function. Consider that Flesh-Shaper would have made Swallow basically greedless and Earth magic would have made him immensely greedy.

Of course, 2nd Ascension might well not follow the same rules and 1st.
 
We know it is possible for a Glimpse to be a combatant, since it is common knowledge that they have access to a combat precog path of magic. I don't think it is going to suddenly make Swallow a noncombatant.

(I do wonder why some powers have permanent emotional effects we consider bad when they aren't really superior to the powers that don't have "bad" emotional effects. Seems odd from a doylist perspective / balance )
In theory, it is just an amplification of existing traits. The tests or whatever (inside the lighthouse), reveal what your nature is and grant the related power.
The power an aspirant gains seems linked to their personality - it is not mere gossip to say that Runesmiths are patient and careful, while Stormchasers are easily angered and mercurial.
In the Age of Shadows, it was said Mindscours were common. Now, Rosolin sends its weak and indigent to die in the Lighthouse, and Mindscours are few indeed. My personal theory is that the calmest do not now survive on the streets of Rosolin. Calmness requires prosperity and training, and Rosolin cannot sacrifice its calmest to the Lighthouse.

EDIT:
It also depends on what sort of 'fearful' results. It could be Swallow would fear people, but not Darklings. In that situation, Swallow would be perfectly capable of fighting Darklings but unable to make allies due to her fear of them.
 
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IIRC it's more that glimpses are fearful to the point where it seriously affects their ability to actually function. Consider that Flesh-Shaper would have made Swallow basically greedless and Earth magic would have made him immensely greedy.

Of course, 2nd Ascension might well not follow the same rules and 1st.
I do hope that the emotional effects aren't that bad. People seem capable of taking these jobs and functioning, and we know Glimpses can do combat, so I don't think it's quite that terrible, but I could be wrong.

If it is that bad I don't think we should go for any emotion affecting job, since the non-emotion affecting jobs seem to be completely equal in power to emotion-crippling jobs.
 
(I do wonder why some powers have permanent emotional effects we consider bad when they aren't really superior to the powers that don't have "bad" emotional effects. Seems odd from a doylist perspective / balance )
That is a bit odd, yes.

"that's only true when there's only one enemy." How does more than one enemy change the range swords/bows work at?
"So something that is both sword and bow could potentially do both, at the same time." I do not see how it is physically possible. Drawing a bow and using a sword require different motions. Even with a weapon capable of both, people are not able to do both at the same time.
"Also, a single weapon takes less space." Not really important.
I feel like you're deliberately missing the point. Either way, i'm not sure how to explain to you if don't get it so i'll just try one more time and then give up.

'at the same time' wasn't meant as literally, in the same fraction of an instant, type of 'at the same time'(Although i am 100% sure a Runesmith could make something that could do that).

I was talking about seamlessly switching between ranged and melee combat while fighting multiple enemies, both weak and strong. So we could focus Bladebound stuff on the big/tough mobs while taking care of the small/weak mobs quick and easy and from far away with Longshot stuff, without having to switch weapons mid-combat. As in, having the ability to shoot things far away while fighting something closer. And no that's not dumb because supernatural magic skills.

"For the second one, i was under the impression that Runesmiths were far more versatile than to merely 'enchant a sword to bend or a bow to be sharp' or shooting 'arrows(that) freeze what they hit'."
What?
Runesmiths are far far more versatile than that, that is my point.
You were the one who wants to make a sword act like a bow, or a bow act like a sword, not me. "it would be better to enchant it so that arrows freeze what they hit" was a single example of a better enchantment on a bow than the ability to use it as a sword.
There are many very useful enchantments that could be placed on a sword. There are many very useful enchantments that could be placed on a bow. It would be better to spend the effort on any of them rather than making a sword or bow able to be used as the other.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never wrote 'bow act as a sword/sword act as a bow', i was explicitly talking about a weapon that was both a sword and a bow. You know, at the same time. Because f**king magic. It was, actually, indeed only you that said anything about that.

And please, don't explain to me how runesmithing works before we actually find out how exactly it works. The informational says they 'forge' items. That sounds a bit more than just 'enchanting' to me. Although i suppose it's possible i've just missed something. Also, magic.

Finally, did you actually say a Magi crafter using Magic to make Magic items can't Magically make a Magic item that can Magically be used as a Magic bow and Magic sword simultaneously? And that you know exactly how much of a waste that would be because you also know exactly how much effort it would take? And how many 'enchantments' they can put on a single item?

I do hope that the emotional effects aren't that bad. People seem capable of taking these jobs and functioning, and we know Glimpses can do combat, so I don't think it's quite that terrible, but I could be wrong.

If it is that bad I don't think we should go for any emotion affecting job, since the non-emotion affecting jobs seem to be completely equal in power to emotion-crippling jobs.

From the orange lighthouse:
You become a Tremorfoot. Become EXTRAORDINARILY more Greedy.

You become a Fleshcrafter. Become EXTRAORDINARILY less Greedy.
Though as mentioned, we don't know if other Ascensions follow the same rules. It might have barely any emotional effect, or it might somehow be worse, or something else entirely. An emotion aura? Who knows.
 
FP from discussion? Doesn't appear to be a thing. :V
I do hope that the emotional effects aren't that bad. People seem capable of taking these jobs and functioning, and we know Glimpses can do combat, so I don't think it's quite that terrible, but I could be wrong.

If it is that bad I don't think we should go for any emotion affecting job, since the non-emotion affecting jobs seem to be completely equal in power to emotion-crippling jobs.
IIRC it was mentioned that Glimpses very rarely venture out. Of course, emotions change.

From what I see:

Balanced: Thunderfist, Vineweavers, Bladebound, Shaderunner, Longshot, Watersinger

* Often offers very reliable/obvious effects.
* They build upon what already exists.
* Significantly more useful in conjunction with others. (Vineweaver+Watersinger is most prominent)
* Appears to me to be quite suited to be a 'Bedrock' that can support things very well.

Lack of (Emotion): Canceller, Stormchaser, Spellthieves, Mindscour, Fleshcrafter, Alchemist

* With the exception of Stormchaser, basically all esoteric effects. Even the Stormchaser allows flight and some weather control.
* Also with the exception of Stormchaser, appear to all revolve around altering other humans/mages.
* With the exception of Stormchaser, finds it pretty hard to fight Darklings without other magical support (Or lots of mundane support.)
* What are you even doing here Stormchaser

Excess of (Emotion): Runesmith, Fireeyes, Tremorfeet, Glimpses, Coldhands, Breathtakers

* Direct manipulation of the elements. (Fire, Ice, Earth, Air)
* Appears very 'primordial' and 'grounded' to me, with the exception of Glimpses.
* Practically bog-standard magi-ing, look at it!
* To balance out their obvious mundane applicability, character may suffer from serious emotional issues.
 
The 'Balanced' grouping looks like a solid build, actually.

Bladebound for melee, Longshot for ranged, Shaderunner for defence, Thunderfist for physical, Vineweaver for support, and Watersinger for AoE's.

Shaderunner and Thunderfist are obvious and straightforward.

Bladebound and Longshot could potentially be great with Vineweaver and Watersinger magic. Water/plant projectiles and water swords.
A whip of water used with Infinite Sharpness? Launching a literal rain of Longshot-enhanced water drops?
 
If Balanced build replaced Vineweaver for Coldhands (we're already stubborn, not much will change) it would be pretty great, yeah.

Watersinger + Coldhands can form powerful ice weapons usable in melee or ranged combat (and so usable by both Bladebound and Longshot) while Thunderfist and Shaderunner amplify our combat skills really well or make us a pretty darn good assassin.
 
My decision on whether Longshot is good would depend on it's synergy with Bladebound. Currently it appears to lack synergies.

But maybe Longshots skills work with throwing knives, so who knows?
 
My decision on whether Longshot is good would depend on it's synergy with Bladebound. Currently it appears to lack synergies.

But maybe Longshots skills work with throwing knives, so who knows?
It could be some kind of alt-alt mode? We use ice weapons to fight with Bladebound skills and form ice throwing knives with Longshot when we're facing something like a flying enemy or one that's out of range or something similar.
 
If Balanced build replaced Vineweaver for Coldhands (we're already stubborn, not much will change) it would be pretty great, yeah.

Watersinger + Coldhands can form powerful ice weapons usable in melee or ranged combat (and so usable by both Bladebound and Longshot) while Thunderfist and Shaderunner amplify our combat skills really well or make us a pretty darn good assassin.
Couldn't Watersinger make weapons usable by Bladebound and Longshot by itself though? I mean, i doubt they would be good or even decent weapons without Bladebound or Longshot magic, but with? If having a solid grip is the problem we just need a standard hilt and then form a water blade from there.

My decision on whether Longshot is good would depend on it's synergy with Bladebound. Currently it appears to lack synergies.

But maybe Longshots skills work with throwing knives, so who knows?
In my mind, Longshot doesn't really have any direct synergy with Bladebound, but rather synergy with all the things Bladebound has synergy with.
Also, Longshot covers 'projectile weapons' so afaik they definitely do work with throwing knives. But Bladebound magic afaik stops working on things the Bladebound Magi isn't in direct physical contact with.
 
Couldn't Watersinger make weapons usable by Bladebound and Longshot by itself though? I mean, i doubt they would be good or even decent weapons without Bladebound or Longshot magic, but with? If having a solid grip is the problem we just need a standard hilt and then form a water blade from there.
If we're going to use elements, I'd prefer to specialise hard in one, and Coldhands is supposedly really good at creating weapons / armor while its personality effect won't be as bothersome as something like Fearful would.

Besides, Vineweaver is awful for that build, not very synergistic. Why not ditch being a glorified farmer for high synergy with water elementalism?
 
It could be some kind of alt-alt mode? We use ice weapons to fight with Bladebound skills and form ice throwing knives with Longshot when we're facing something like a flying enemy or one that's out of range or something similar.
I'd go with Mindscour instead; I imagine that the synergy between Bladebound/Runesmith/Thunderfist/Shaderunner would be.. immense enough that Swallow's other Ascension can support his non-combat skills.
 
I'd go with Mindscour instead; I imagine that the synergy between Bladebound/Runesmith/Thunderfist/Shaderunner would be.. immense enough that Swallow's other Ascension can support his non-combat skills.
Mindscour's skill looting isn't very useful for Swallow, and it is mostly anti-human. I'd prefer Breathtaker if we want utility - we can then fly, mass scale buff allies, scout and similar. Seems more useful, especially the flight.

Mindscour's major use is if we take Runesmith and then mindrape Runesmiths for their recipes, but not sure if thread will go for that and not sure if I want Runesmith compared to Coldhands.
 
If we're going to use elements, I'd prefer to specialise hard in one, and Coldhands is supposedly really good at creating weapons / armor while its personality effect won't be as bothersome as something like Fearful would.

Besides, Vineweaver is awful for that build, not very synergistic. Why not ditch being a glorified farmer for high synergy with water elementalism?
I agree that Vineweaver doesn't have very much direct synergy, but it's got a lot of support potential.

It can make traps, defences(in advance), temporary housing, food, and possibly things like plants made specifically to hold much water for some synergy with Watersinger

And i don't think Coldhands adds much to an otherwise 'Balanced'-group build, because water is great as a medium as it is, Bladebound and Longshot covers any damage dealing needs, and Shaderunner and Thunderfist covers all our defensive needs. So the weapons and armor of Coldhands is more or less superfluous, and if we're going to have one not-that-needed class/profession/whatever-you-call-them, then Vineweaver adds amazing out of combat utility that we'd otherwise have to rely on allies or mundane preparation to have access to.

I'd prefer Breathtaker if we want utility - we can then fly, mass scale buff allies, scout and similar. Seems more useful, especially the flight.
Entirely unnecessary, because for some ungodly reason Thunderfists can learn how to fly.
 
I do hope that the emotional effects aren't that bad. People seem capable of taking these jobs and functioning, and we know Glimpses can do combat, so I don't think it's quite that terrible, but I could be wrong.

If it is that bad I don't think we should go for any emotion affecting job, since the non-emotion affecting jobs seem to be completely equal in power to emotion-crippling jobs.
The extreme emotions have benefits as well as disadvantages. For example; a calm character is probably more likely to get along with people (advantage) but probably more likely to take the easy path(disadvantage).
For emotions, it should just be another consideration in which power to choose.

I feel like you're deliberately missing the point. Either way, i'm not sure how to explain to you if don't get it so i'll just try one more time and then give up.

'at the same time' wasn't meant as literally, in the same fraction of an instant, type of 'at the same time'(Although i am 100% sure a Runesmith could make something that could do that).

I was talking about seamlessly switching between ranged and melee combat while fighting multiple enemies, both weak and strong. So we could focus Bladebound stuff on the big/tough mobs while taking care of the small/weak mobs quick and easy and from far away with Longshot stuff, without having to switch weapons mid-combat. As in, having the ability to shoot things far away while fighting something closer. And no that's not dumb because supernatural magic skills.


Don't put words in my mouth. I never wrote 'bow act as a sword/sword act as a bow', i was explicitly talking about a weapon that was both a sword and a bow. You know, at the same time. Because f**king magic. It was, actually, indeed only you that said anything about that.
"seamlessly switching between ranged and melee combat while fighting multiple enemies, both weak and strong"Why? Why would you be switching between ranged and melee combat? You keep repeating "multiple enemies", but that is not a reason for switching. Ranged weapons are best when you are distant from the enemy, melee weapons are better when you are close. You are either one or the other, it cannot be both, it is a yes or no question(are the enemies close to you?). If you mean some enemies close and some distant, then you are in melee range and you use the sword.
"As in, having the ability to shoot things far away while fighting something closer." What is stopping the "something closer" from killing you when you are"shoot things far away"?

"It was, actually, indeed only you that said anything about that." Is this the pronoun game? Are you agreeing with me or what?

"Don't put words in my mouth." You accuse me of claiming the Runesmiths are not versatile, and are now saying "Don't put words in my mouth"? You do understand examples are not exclusive right? I am obviously not going to list every single way to make an object that is both sword and bow OR list every single thing Runesmiths can do.
How do you think a Runesmith will forge a "weapon that was both a sword and a bow"? Because magic is a useless answer, basically admitting you have no idea. First I thought you meant a transforming weapon. Then I thought you meant create one item (sword/bow) with the ability to use it like the other. As that is not what you mean, then what do you mean by:"A magic sword that is also magically a magic bow"? I understand you want a weapon that is both, and can be used like both, but not what you mean by that.
And please, don't explain to me how runesmithing works before we actually find out how exactly it works. The informational says they 'forge' items. That sounds a bit more than just 'enchanting' to me. Although i suppose it's possible i've just missed something. Also, magic.
"don't explain to me how runesmithing works before we actually find out how exactly it works"Nothing I posted claimed to explain how runesmithing works, so that is a pointless request/statement.
"The informational says they 'forge' items." Ok, just consider whenever my posts say enchanting to mean forge. I was using that word to distinguish between normal forging, but either way it is the creation of magical objects.
"Also, magic." meaning what?

Finally, did you actually say a Magi crafter using Magic to make Magic items can't Magically make a Magic item that can Magically be used as a Magic bow and Magic sword simultaneously? And that you know exactly how much of a waste that would be because you also know exactly how much effort it would take? And how many 'enchantments' they can put on a single item?
"did you actually say a Magi crafter using Magic to make Magic items can't Magically make a Magic item that can Magically be used as a Magic bow and Magic sword simultaneously?"
I said it would be a waste of effort. Adding the word Magic into the sentence multiple times doesn't make it a better idea.
Also "simultaneously"? Is this another "'at the same time' wasn't meant as literally" or do you mean "simultaneously" this time? Just consider the motions of using a bow and the motions of using a sword. Time travel would be easier than doing those motions simultaneously, at least that is in only one direction.

"And that you know exactly how much of a waste that would be because you also know exactly how much effort it would take?" No, I never even implied I have the slightest idea how much effort it will take. That it would be wasted effort doesn't change however much effort it takes. If it only takes ten minutes, then that is ten wasted minutes.
"And how many 'enchantments' they can put on a single item?" No idea. I would guess unlimited, with each additional magical effect increasing the time (mildly) exponentially. But that is just a guess.
 
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