The Game of Crusading Thrones, Self-Insert Edition (GoT CK2)

@notbirdofprey The other day you alluded to there being negative consequences for assassinating enemies. Can you go into more detail about that?

In addition, can you say whether or not it would be possible for us to hire the Faceless Men once we've opened relations with Braavos?
 
hey @notbirdofprey would Aegons conquest still happen or is he going to carve out pieces of the of the stormlands and riverlands to set up his own kingdom ? cause in the original time line Aegon had three dragons against normal for the most part non magical medieval kingdoms who had absolutely no answer to or understanding of dealing with the advantage of dragons or magic . in this time line though magic is making a comeback and the other kingdoms would have the ability to contest any dragons and magic brought to bare regardless of its power , this means that the overwhelming and unassailable advantage that allowed the conquest to happen in the original time line while still a massive advantage its not as game changing , this means Aegon would have to relay much more on his personal domain for any sort of conquest which isn't much a few sparsely populated islands and a small peninsula not really enough to take over a continent
 
predicting that the targs have more Varyian knowledge like accesses to those Chimera things that wounded Balerion and those parasite things and prob demand we bend the knee
 
I was asking for finding out about the ritual they attempted in the Vale to bring back the Griffins.

That would take an Intrigue or Diplomacy Action.

@notbirdofprey Is it already possible to use incendiary projectiles with these weapons, or do we need to research them with an uplift action or something.

You can make fire arrows and things like that, but they are not commonly used at sea. Some of the towers around Moat Cailin are set up for incendiaries though.

@notbirdofprey The other day you alluded to there being negative consequences for assassinating enemies. Can you go into more detail about that?

In addition, can you say whether or not it would be possible for us to hire the Faceless Men once we've opened relations with Braavos?

Well, there's a chance you are held responsible, it's possible that whoever replaces them would be worse, it can look bad to your allies and lords if they suspect...

And yes, you could hire the Faceless Men, which would take care of several of the problems of normal assasination. It would also be outrageously expensive.

hey @notbirdofprey would Aegons conquest still happen or is he going to carve out pieces of the of the stormlands and riverlands to set up his own kingdom ? cause in the original time line Aegon had three dragons against normal for the most part non magical medieval kingdoms who had absolutely no answer to or understanding of dealing with the advantage of dragons or magic . in this time line though magic is making a comeback and the other kingdoms would have the ability to contest any dragons and magic brought to bare regardless of its power , this means that the overwhelming and unassailable advantage that allowed the conquest to happen in the original time line while still a massive advantage its not as game changing , this means Aegon would have to relay much more on his personal domain for any sort of conquest which isn't much a few sparsely populated islands and a small peninsula not really enough to take over a continent

Wait for the interlude to guess on what Aegon is capable of.
 
Well, there's a chance you are held responsible, it's possible that whoever replaces them would be worse, it can look bad to your allies and lords if they suspect...

And yes, you could hire the Faceless Men, which would take care of several of the problems of normal assasination. It would also be outrageously expensive.
Can you give any sort of rough figure there? e.g. 2000 gold, 3000 gold etc.
 
Interlude: On Dragonstone
The cog docked on Dragonstone, and Galbert Ryswell breathed a sigh of relief at the thought of dry land and something to eat that's not salted fish. The gangplank is lowered and he and his companions stride towards it. A figure approaches the dock with long white hair. As she grows closer his breath catches in his throat at the sight of her. He always thought is wife was among the most beautiful women in the world, but as disloyal as it is, he cannot deny she pales next to this person. Beside him, Dallen Glover lets out a soft oath. "I knew people said the dragonlords of Old Valyria were more beautiful than any, but I had no idea…" He shakes his head and steps forward. "My lady, thank you for welcoming us so promptly." He says, giving her a shallow half-bow. Galbert follows suit, offering his own thanks, and their companions – a half-dozen guards and a maester learned in the history of Essos – give their own, deeper bows.

The woman smiles thinly. "Indeed…come, I suppose I should offer you bread and salt. That is the custom, is it not?" She steps back, gesturing to a pair of servants to come forward with both. Galbert glances at them curiously, noticing they have tattoos resembling scales on their arms. Taking the bread and salt with another murmur of thanks, he takes the opportunity to study the woman who greeted them a little more. She is dressed similarly to a lady of House Mormont, except the material is different and the cut more elegant, but he is fairly certain she has some sort of armor under it. A gambeson of some kind, perhaps? Whatever it is, she seems perfectly comfortable in it, and similarly is not bothered by the blade at her side. She is most certainly a warrior, a skilled one he would guess, but there is a sense of something even more dangerous around her that makes Galbert's skin crawl. A glance as his companions suggests that they feel it too. As they are escorted towards the castle, it takes an effort of will to shift his attention from the dangerous woman to the holdfast of the dragonlords. An immense volcano towers above the castle, rumbling like thunder, lava leaking slowly down the side where it is caught in channels of black stone which vanish into the rock going…somewhere. High above it several small shapes cavort and dance, almost seeming to collide with each other. Spurts of flame and smoke occasionally flash in their midst.

The castle itself seems as immense as Winterfell, but far less welcoming. Great obsidian braziers rise on the path to the gates, fire in a thousand colors flaring steadily. Enormous stone dragons grace the walls, curling around each other, coiling and interweaving. Rubies and emeralds and sapphires glisten from their eyes, almost seeming to watch him as they reflect the light of the many fires. The gates stand open, solid slabs of stone carved with more dragons, fourteen of them, each with gemstone eyes in fourteen colors. As he passes by, he feels a sense of weight like he does in the godswood, and for a moment his skin burns. Inside are two ranks of men lining the halls, as tall and broad-shouldered as the elite of the Winterfell guard, wearing armor just as heavy patterned to look like the scales of a dragon.

Inside the castle are even more dragons, carved into the floor, woven into tapestries, and at every intersection of halls there stands a dragon statue, although none have gemstone eyes or the sensation of watching. Galbert and Dallen share a glance as they pass what must be the thousandth dragon. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your ancestry, but this is a bit…much. One might go so far as to call it excessive. Finally, they arrive at the throne room, where much to their relief the dragons are kept to a minimum here. The throne itself is a simple construct of black stone, meant for a large man. It is empty at the moment, but beside it stood another beautiful woman, although hers was a gentler sort.

The first dragonrider took a place on the opposite side of the throne and the second spoke. "Greetings, my lords. It is our honor to host such distinguished and noble guests from such an ancient kingdom. I am Lady Rhaenys, wife of Lord Aegon." Her voice is high and sweet and her excitements seems completely genuine. There is a silence, the two women exchange glances and the first sighs. "I am Visenya." She says in an impressively flat, dry voice. Rhaenys sighs as well, then turns her attention back to the Northmen. "I do apologize…my sister has many skills, but she oft-neglected her courtesies to hone them. Please, do not take offense, and allow me to show you the warmth of Dragonstone." Galbert can only nod as she claps her hands, seeming delighted. "Servants will show you to your rooms then, and tonight we shall feast."

The next days are something of a blur. Everywhere Galbert sees dragon scale tattoos and stone dragons. A veritable horde of them flies above the ever-rumbling Dragonmont, wild and untamed, occasionally stealing sheep from fields or fish from the drying rack. Two large ones- Vhagar and Meraxes – rest in specially constructed pens, which the two dragonriders visit with him several times, even taking him for an occasional ride. The scale-armored guards seem to be as common as carved dragons and could easily match the Winterfell guard for quality, although he is uncertain about quantity. While Lady Rhaenys is a gracious host, whenever he speaks with Visenya he suspects she would rather be dueling others in the yard or in her chambers with a broad-shouldered man named Orys she seems to use as a gofer. Strange sounds and smells often come from those chambers, sulfur and smoke the two most prominent. Aegon is never present. No one will say exactly where he is, describing him as "taking care of old debts in Essos."

Only once does Lady Visenya seek out the Northmen, ruthlessly interrogating them about prophecies. Rhaenys also asks about them, but far more politely. Her manners are possibly as dangerous as Visenya's blade, or possibly even her dragon's claws, drawing out endless hints about the North from him and his companions, often without even revealing her efforts.

Long talks in the night between Galbert and Dallen confirm that they share suspicions – the Targaryens are planning a conquest. And having seen the immense power of the dragons, they wonder if they will succeed. Just before they leave, Rhaenys presses a gift into their hands. It's a long black candle with razor-sharp edges. "Should your king wish to speak with us again, tell him to wet the edge with blood and we shall call to him when we hear." She promises with a smile. "I hope we meet again, you were such charming guests…"

Galbert's nausea on the way back up isn't purely due to the rocking of the ship. It is also due to nightmares of dragons burning weirwoods and castles and the Wall itself.
 
@notbirdofprey So, Aegon is "taking care of old debts in Essos"? Is this referring to how Aegon helped several of the Free Cities in their war against Volantis which was attempting to re-establish the Freehold?

Well it confirms theirs more to them then the 3 dragons at the least, but don't tell me they have cannons
They don't have cannons, but they probably have the most powerful sorcery around, focused around blood and fire magic, and probably have the ability to forge Valyrian steel, along with other hitherto lost secrets of Valyria.
 
Nope, you have literally no idea. It might not even be gold.
They take something they consider valuable. It could be anything that you have that they'll want in exchange.
It still might be worth sounding them out, just to hear what their offer is. If they want more than we're willing to give, then obviously we say no. If it is just gold, then it's probably worthwhile, even if it enormously expensive.
 
@notbirdofprey would it be possible to falsify a old document with a prophecy on it? Like say the Dragon that comes to Westros will wither and fall something along those lines and have it work its ways through others into there hands?
 
Well, this was ominous. Seems the Targaryens believe themselves strong enough to take even on this more powerful Westeros.

It was to be expected, really. While it'd have been a laugh if Aegon thought himself invincible with his three dragons, only to to be sent packing by the kingdoms' new magics, it just makes sense that if all other factions were gaining new powers, his did too. I bet in Dorne, the only one we don't have the slightest clue about, they're also re-discovering the water magic of the Rhyonar.

Aegon's biggest disadvantage is gonna be likely sheer numbers, but he has ways to shore that weakness if he gets good rolls: sellswords, Volantis choosing him as its ruler (they always wanted to become the new Valyria), or the warriors of Rh'llor allying with him (fire likes fire). Or maybe he thinks army size doesn't matter when he can just burn them from the sky.

Still, with more food in the North, plus immigration of wildlings and riverlanders, I can only imagine that we're still gonna be superior in troop quantity. We just have to make it count. Also, even if he's stronger than canon, a storm-empowered Argillac, a divine-empowered Loren and the Fae-knights that seem to have appeared in the Reach, should bleed for sure a good chunk of his strength before he marches northwards.

Seems to me we must get griffins one way or another, to at least mitigate his aerial supremacy. Also try and convince other kingdoms to attack him all at once. Besides his dragons, his main advantage OTL was fighting his enemies one at a time.
 
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mentioning the riverlands hows their population looking
Seems to me we must get griffins one way or another, to at least mitigate his aerial supremacy. Also try and convince other kingdoms to attack him all at once. Besides his dragons, his main advantage OTL was fighting his enemies one at a time.
I wouldn't say it was his main advantage it was more he toke advantage of Harren the blacks and Argalcs arrogance and by the time the reach and westerlands united to was to late
 
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he toke advantage of Harren the blacks and Argalcs arrogance and by the time the reach and westerlands united to was to late

That was the cause, yes, the arrogance of each king that thought they could defeat him on their own. And the effect was, as I said, that each kingdom fought them pretty much alone. Even when the Westerlands and the Reach joined, they didn't bother to call Dorne, the North and the Vale to flank him.

Then again, there was a lot of bad blood between the kingdoms back then. An alliance between an Andal-proud kingdom like the Vale and followers of the Old Gods like the Northern Houses would have never occurred to them. That's why we must not neglect alliances.
 
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Even with all our buffs we are militarily inferior to the canon Targaryens, let alone this buffed version. A direct engagement wih them is plainly unviable and trying to assassinate them is inconsistent and likely to backfire. The Dornish were unable to replicate their slaying of Meraxes and by resisting turned a formerly prosperous land into a depopulated desert. During the Dance, the only case of conventional forces slaying dragons was of killing riderless dragons literally chained to the ground in the confined dragonpit. Even a westeros united to resist Aegon just means a much more diverse list of casualties in the Field of Fire. We should abandon any thoughts of fighting a war against the Targaryens in favour of other means, be they diplomatic or otherwise.

However, the semifriendly contact and us getting our hands on a glass candle suggests they are open to dialogue. This makes it much easier to convince them to turn their eyes to Essos, though that seems a longshot given how much planning time they've already invested in Westeros. We could try and sweeten the pot by offering our forces to help him conquer Essos, though.

Another route I would consider is convincing them to not conquer the north. The fact that we have had no reports of them scouting us out in contrast to the Riverlands, Vale, and Westerlands bodes well. Point out that we're less wealthy, harder to manage, and largely isolationist and we might be able to convince them to leave us alone. What I see us doing here is pulling a Dorne in convincing the Targaryens we're too poor to be worth the trouble conquering, without the Targaryens calling our bluff about being willing to sacrifice our people and prosperity to maintain independence, because let's be frank, there is no way to pull a Dorne without the Wall, Winterfell, and most other northern castles going up in smoke.
 
That or we find or forge a prophecy that tells them that trying to become kings of the seven kingdoms will doom them in the long run.

Or we find a way to fight back.
 
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My brain keeps going to the dragon eggs if we don't die in the inevitable invasion. I am curious if they make magic stronger like they seem to do in canon.

If it looks we can't take them, we could try to get a better deal than Dorn did with autonomy. As even though they have a prince and princess I don't want us to become an Arctic Desert.

But at the same time, it would feel wrong bowing without any form of resistance against people who probably sacrifice slaves for blood magic.

We could try and sweeten the pot by offering our forces to help him

They could get the southern Free Cities through the Stepstones.
 
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Even with all our buffs we are militarily inferior to the canon Targaryens, let alone this buffed version. A direct engagement wih them is plainly unviable and trying to assassinate them is inconsistent and likely to backfire. The Dornish were unable to replicate their slaying of Meraxes and by resisting turned a formerly prosperous land into a depopulated desert. During the Dance, the only case of conventional forces slaying dragons was of killing riderless dragons literally chained to the ground in the confined dragonpit. Even a westeros united to resist Aegon just means a much more diverse list of casualties in the Field of Fire. We should abandon any thoughts of fighting a war against the Targaryens in favour of other means, be they diplomatic or otherwise.

However, the semifriendly contact and us getting our hands on a glass candle suggests they are open to dialogue. This makes it much easier to convince them to turn their eyes to Essos, though that seems a longshot given how much planning time they've already invested in Westeros. We could try and sweeten the pot by offering our forces to help him conquer Essos, though.

Another route I would consider is convincing them to not conquer the north. The fact that we have had no reports of them scouting us out in contrast to the Riverlands, Vale, and Westerlands bodes well. Point out that we're less wealthy, harder to manage, and largely isolationist and we might be able to convince them to leave us alone. What I see us doing here is pulling a Dorne in convincing the Targaryens we're too poor to be worth the trouble conquering, without the Targaryens calling our bluff about being willing to sacrifice our people and prosperity to maintain independence, because let's be frank, there is no way to pull a Dorne without the Wall, Winterfell, and most other northern castles going up in smoke.
Well, we do have five years. If we really, really wanted to, we could probably rush gunpowder in that time, in which case we might have conventional weapons capable of devastating them sufficiently to force them to give up. There are also various allies we could get - Braavos would probably help us, since their historic animosity towards Valyrians means they probably wouldn't be too happy about another sorcerous Valyrian empire setting up across the Narrow Sea. Other Free Cities might also be similarly terrified of that prospect, and therefore willing to help us, although Pentos, Myr, Tyrosh, and Lys would probably still be grateful to Aegon for stopping the Volantene conquests.

We could also find ways to delay them, such as through sabotage if we set up a spy network, which would also give us the ability to tech up further and build up our military more. In addition, assassination would also be viable, particularly if we double downed on it, even with DC 80 or so - factoring in our bonuses, there'd be a 50/50 chance of success.

One thing to consider is that we, and the other kingdoms, might be able to get away with simply swearing fealty to Aegon, or acknowledging him as our suzerain, or as a kind of "High King" of Westeros. We'd probably have to pay tribute, but if we cooperate then we can probably secure concessions, and be able to retain our autonomy and govern largely as we see fit. The Targaryens would also handily eliminate the threat of war with the other kingdoms as well, and would deal with both Harren and Loren in short order, so we'd be able to concentrate purely on teching up and expanding our economy.

If they did form a more unified state that would run counter to our aims for autonomy, but even then we could still benefit in some ways. We'd be able to sell goods more freely, and dominate Westerosi markets without worrying about embargos and the like. We could get ourselves appointed as Hand of the King, or Master of Coin, then we'd also be well placed to expand our own wealth and influence enormously.

Being an ally, as you suggested, would probably be better, but I worry that essentially abandoning our southern allies like that would damage our reputation, although it might be something that we judge to be worth the cost. The ideal situation would be if we could get them to turn their gaze towards Essos, as you also suggested, but that's probably a bit too difficult.

We should reach out to the other kingdoms, including Dorne and the Reach, as well as our current allies, and see if we can formulate some kind of unified policy and response to this. That could take the form of a concerted military alliance against the Targaryens, or promising assistance to the Targaryens if they invade Essos instead, or even agreeing to acknowledge Aegon as High King of Westeros, while trying to remain simply as tributaries, as opposed to true subjects.
 
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