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Also a speculative note on research and superweapons: Research can be done faster and cheaper if you discard ethics and some safety procedures. Presumably a significant portion of our research costs go into that sort of thing that the Lysenthi may or may not match. It may not be a huge time/cost difference, but the potential is there.
Not really something they can afford.
Especially an issue when you're a small, rather poor population, and really don't have many high caliber brains or bodies to spare.
The Soviet Union allegedly did this sometimes, but they had the human reserves to spare as well as the amorality; I have serious doubts as to whether the lystheni had the human capital to follow their example even if they wanted to.

Also remember that this is the same 'verse that eventually made the Crucible. I don't recall exactly how long ME3 takes in-verse, but it feels like weeks, maybe months. Call it 6 months at the outside. During this time -from my memory, which may or may not be faulty- the Crucible plans are found, researched, decided to be acted upon, constructed, crewed, and deployed. Does that count as utilizing alien technology for making a superweapon?
Prothean schematics.
And it's not like the then-galaxy did not have plenty of experience in working from Prothean schematics.
 
we're willing to exchange prisoners. If that falls through, blitz the lyseni. Eradicate them. Our hostages become martyrs, we no longer have a snake in the back garden. Win, win.

Can you kindly refrain from ideas that would put Mira and co onto galactic court for crimes against sapient life? We are hosting a third party fleet that is watching closely.
 
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[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.

Once our people are free, then we see what else they bring to the table.
 
we're willing to exchange prisoners. If that falls through, blitz the lyseni. Eradicate them. Our hostages become martyrs, we no longer have a snake in the back garden. Win, win.
To quote the ultimate authority here:
And when that time comes, I welcome such discussion, just...let's not tread that line. Mira has some problematic (rules-wise) thoughts on Rachni, but elsewhere her line on genocide is a, "hard no, goddess, what is wrong with you?" and I've already said I'm going to purge it from narrative and monologue alike, so...let's just not.
(Emphasis mine)
So, Cut. It. Out.
 
[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.

I have to question what people's response will be if she demands we remove the fleet instead of giving back her people. I would also like to point out that given their actions the offence committed by the spies, well, espionage while at war normally carries a death sentence. If it's a Cold War then spy swaps but otherwise... yeah.

I assume they get their shit back, but it's not really a priority. We can pay for it out of petty cash, and take it out of the lystheni's hides later.
I assume the Lys 'confiscate' it and use it to reverse engineer, upgrade and build more ships.
 
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hey all the Plan Release voter maybe we should give all our ships to the lystheni they are clearly missunderstood and want just the best for Virmire
 
[X] Plan Release

All the edgelords I see there...
Can you exactly tell me why we should slaughter Lystheni for their hides before milking them for all their worth?
Yes, declaring war and killing all of them would simplify matters - but why give our political opponents ammunition by discarding hostages?
 
*re-reads last few pages*

I think that will be all, thank you. Vote closed.

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest | Page 452 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 11297-11484]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
No. of Votes: 36

[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
No. of Votes: 22

[X] Plan Withdrawal
-[X] Accept one of her demands [WITHDRAWAL], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
No. of Votes: 3

--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Plan Regrettable Consequences
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[x] Share with her our point of view of the history of Lystheni-Virmire interaction.
--[x] Tell her we are in a literal war of exinction with the Rachni, which requires our full attention. The Lystheni actions went from 'nuisance' to liability.
--[x] We can not spare the ressources to make sure this liability doesn't stab us in the back. We are now at a decision point where it's literally 'you' or 'we'. And our history of Lystheni interaction very much shows that occupation or containment won't work. That leaves extermination.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan Last Chance
-[x] Toss her the datachip that has all evidence that her 'children' are spies and have been arrested for espionage.
--[x] Ignore whatever bullshit she is about to state and explain what is about to happen, then the carrot, and then the stick if it doesn't get with the fucking program.
--[x] Share with her our point of view of the history of Lystheni-Virmire interaction.
--[x] Tell her we are in a literal war of exinction with the Rachni, which requires our full attention. The Lystheni actions went from 'nuisance' to liability.
--[x] We can not spare the ressources to make sure this liability doesn't stab us in the back. We are now at a decision point where it's literally 'you' or 'we'. And our history of Lystheni interaction very much shows that occupation or containment won't work. That leaves extermination.
--[X] Unless she bends when you start.
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Plan No Bluffing
[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
-[X] And walk out.
--[X] Really.
--[X] Unless she bends when you start.
No. of Votes: 1

[x] Diplomats for Merchants
- [x] Release any Lystheni not involved in espionage.
- [x] Provide the dalatrass with copies of the evidence pertaining to the accusations of espionage and social engineering.
- [x] Provide the location and time where the exchange will happen.
- [x] If the dalatrass fails to meet your demands you will continue the embargo, move to dissolve the LBZ, and place defense platforms to enforce a blockade.
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 60

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.

I don't want to see another word on the topic of this vote. We are clearly not capable of discussing it in a civil manner. I'll re-think how I present these votes, in future diplomacy event chains.

Your update arrives tomorrow.
 
This is just blatant trolling.

o_O

Have you ever heard of 'Start as you mean to go on'? They have been nothing but paranoid, combative and dishonest from the get go. Even now when you've had enough, you're still trying to play nice while they repeatedly spit in your face.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't read the end of GM's lock. Shutting up.
 
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o_O

Have you ever heard of 'Start as you mean to go on'? They have been nothing but paranoid, combative and dishonest from the get go. Even now when you've had enough, you're still trying to play nice while they repeatedly spit in your face.
Or maybe we're putting the lives of our citizens ahead of our pride, it's a trade.
 
None of this matters to my very simple point that you ignored. I NEVER said they couldn't build nukes. What I did say is that THEY HAD NO IDEA WE'D FOUND OUT ABOUT THEIR BULLSHIT AND WOULD BE DROPPING THE HAMMER ON THEM.

Which means your saying that despite having them on lock down and not allowing any traffic between system they could some how sneak a nuke in. OR your saying they'd already hid nukes on our world while we we're bending over backwards to help them, because they're completely fucking insane/evil and need to be put down.

Like I said your making unrealistic shit up to fearmonger, and support a flawed stance. You are all but trolling stop it.
We know of all their secret installations / tugged away frigates?
 
We know of all their secret installations / tugged away frigates?

We have an exact cont of the number of ships they have. We know thanks to their highly limited population, having shit for tech, and few resources until we started trading with them. That having anything useful hidden from us are some long fucking odds.

Are you going to bet a few million dollars on being able to flip a coin and have it land on it's edge? Because those are the kind of odds your pissing yourself over. Stop overestimating them to a ridiculously insane degree.
 
I'm glad plan release won, because that's what I would have voted for if I had visited the thread this morning. I feel that it has a much better chance of getting our people back, and it avoids the risk of speaking toothless threats if the Dalatrass called our bluff and we backed down from declaring war. The Dalatrass' reaction will be very informative, especially if she isn't satisfied with getting her people back - spies or not, they are her people (as far as we can tell she is in charge after all).

I'm need to express my dissatisfaction with the people who both voted war and has also shown an uncaring attitude towards the lives of our citizens. I don't want to even risk Mira thinking such heartless thoughts, so I hope that you people avoid sharing such an attitude in the future. Especially in this thread, I'd like to see more consideration for the lives of our people.

When it comes to driving in how her people are spies while ours are just civilian merchants, I'm completely fine with that approach. Well, as long as it benifits the negotiations rather than putting the Dalatrass off the deal anyway. Same with acting all high-and-mighty about conceding to this action too; as long as it doesn't jeopardise getting our people back, I'll happily rub in how her people are spies and should be treated as such instead of being treated as hostages. In fact, I'd love to be able to say "If that's what you truly believe, then I'd like to speak to the one who is really in charge. Y'know, the one who knows that the people we captured are spies and authorised that spying."

We've pointed out that they've been spying on us and been dishonest in their dealings with us, but have we let everyone (and therefore the Lystheni too) know that we know they've stolen our frigate plans? Or have we kept that in the back pocket?
 
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To quote the ultimate authority here:

(Emphasis mine)
So, Cut. It. Out.


*shrugs*

And? Just stating my opinions. Nobody is votin for anything close to what I'm saying.

Can you kindly refrain from ideas that would put Mira and co onto galactic court for crimes against sapient life? We are hosting a third party fleet that is watching closely.

It's not even in vote format, chill. We're unlikely to become The Fourth Reich in space.

Still, what do you think is going to happen if negotiations break down? (It's looking like diplomacy is not a very likely outcome)

So we win the war, we spare the lyseni out of our oh so moral selves. Then what. They back down, appologize, hand over their tech and peacefully assimalate into society?

Yea. That's going to happen.

But, nevermind. I just saw GM's post. Won't pursue this point any further.
 
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Deleted, sorry was reading on phone.

Truth be told, i prefer we declare war on the lystheni after they reject this offer. We need stronger casus belli after all, and hopefully this'll be good enough for the public.
 
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