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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but we've been saving up into a fund to pay it off this whole time, so it's pretty painless. In the short term we'll effectively gain income because we're no longer paying down money into a sinking fund (the technical term for the fund we've been building up to repay our war bonds).
- Location
- Aotearoa
As long as we include an actual vacation in that. It's been a while.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Okay, so! This is in the Lore Screen for posterity, but it's getting an Informational threadmark for the next whenever so it sticks in people's heads.
Relays!
As per canon, there are two types of relays: primaries, which come in linked pairs with no theoretical but some in-practice range limits; and secondaries, which connect to any other secondary relay within a few hundred light years.
When I had to decide how relays worked in this quest, in addition to cutting through the hilariously inconsistent depiction of the network in the games, I had to resolve the following quandary:
Relays connect over hundreds of light years and we're meant to buy that any of the relays in the game are secondaries? Are they serious? Does BioWare not realize how big the Milky Way is? I have to make a readable map with these rules!
My first decision was to quietly retcon secondaries to be, "short-ranged, but not that short, Jesus Christ BioWare."
This worked until I then realized that there was literally no reason not to flag this as yet another part of their delightfully interesting lore into which BioWare simply neglected to invest even the slightest fucking effort. Unfortunately, I came to this realization c. Turn 16, so a retcon was in order. *bitter sigh*
Going through the story, you will see references to secondary relays. If they occur prior to Turn 17 Results: 496 GS, mentally paper them over with the words, "Primary relay to [relevant destination]." I'm not going back and fixing all of them. I'll spot-check any I have occasion to notice, but no more than that.
Here's how relays now work on my galaxy map (in the Status Screen, made by the endlessly helpful @Versharl): The solid connections are all primary relays. All of 'em. Why all? Well, secondaries connect over hundreds of light years. I have simplified this to 1,000 light years for all of them. Now look at that map. If you measure from one tip of the galaxy to the next, and then divide that length into one hundred equal-sized pieces...
...there you have a thousand light years. That is minuscule. Thus, we're not showing secondaries on the map. Instead, secondary relay connections will be something tacked onto the clusters shown. The number of active secondary relays within range of a cluster becomes a resource like any other; effectively a measure of a cluster's strategic depth.
Now, theoretically, there's nothing stopping one from jumping up a chain of secondary relays in order to circumvent a primary link. In cases where somebody successfully does this, the connection will be represented by a dashed line (or something, I need to check with Versharl if this is feasible. Maybe it'll be a bright orange line, who knows?). As of now, no such routes exist.
Also, don't try to attack an enemy cluster like this unless you are supremely confident in your attacking fleet's odds of success against the theoretical combined might of your victim's entire navy in an endurance slugging match with no resupply. Relays take days to weeks to activate, so your fleet is going to be in for a fun time while waiting for their only route home to open up.
I am still deciding how many secondaries all of your owned clusters have. I know Sentry Omega has zero. The others are uncertain. Since I hate retcons and feel annoyed with myself for rendering this one necessary, I'll go ahead and grant that you have naval dominance over all of your secondaries and the 1st Raiding can cover them in its patrol pattern acceptably. This will probably mean they're shitty and small secondary-attached clusters since I have limits, but they will be secure, shitty, and small secondary-attached clusters.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a write-in to codify into the update regarding trying to secondary your way to the Phoenix Massing from Sentry Omega.
Relays!
As per canon, there are two types of relays: primaries, which come in linked pairs with no theoretical but some in-practice range limits; and secondaries, which connect to any other secondary relay within a few hundred light years.
When I had to decide how relays worked in this quest, in addition to cutting through the hilariously inconsistent depiction of the network in the games, I had to resolve the following quandary:
Relays connect over hundreds of light years and we're meant to buy that any of the relays in the game are secondaries? Are they serious? Does BioWare not realize how big the Milky Way is? I have to make a readable map with these rules!
My first decision was to quietly retcon secondaries to be, "short-ranged, but not that short, Jesus Christ BioWare."
This worked until I then realized that there was literally no reason not to flag this as yet another part of their delightfully interesting lore into which BioWare simply neglected to invest even the slightest fucking effort. Unfortunately, I came to this realization c. Turn 16, so a retcon was in order. *bitter sigh*
Going through the story, you will see references to secondary relays. If they occur prior to Turn 17 Results: 496 GS, mentally paper them over with the words, "Primary relay to [relevant destination]." I'm not going back and fixing all of them. I'll spot-check any I have occasion to notice, but no more than that.
Here's how relays now work on my galaxy map (in the Status Screen, made by the endlessly helpful @Versharl): The solid connections are all primary relays. All of 'em. Why all? Well, secondaries connect over hundreds of light years. I have simplified this to 1,000 light years for all of them. Now look at that map. If you measure from one tip of the galaxy to the next, and then divide that length into one hundred equal-sized pieces...
...there you have a thousand light years. That is minuscule. Thus, we're not showing secondaries on the map. Instead, secondary relay connections will be something tacked onto the clusters shown. The number of active secondary relays within range of a cluster becomes a resource like any other; effectively a measure of a cluster's strategic depth.
Now, theoretically, there's nothing stopping one from jumping up a chain of secondary relays in order to circumvent a primary link. In cases where somebody successfully does this, the connection will be represented by a dashed line (or something, I need to check with Versharl if this is feasible. Maybe it'll be a bright orange line, who knows?). As of now, no such routes exist.
Also, don't try to attack an enemy cluster like this unless you are supremely confident in your attacking fleet's odds of success against the theoretical combined might of your victim's entire navy in an endurance slugging match with no resupply. Relays take days to weeks to activate, so your fleet is going to be in for a fun time while waiting for their only route home to open up.
I am still deciding how many secondaries all of your owned clusters have. I know Sentry Omega has zero. The others are uncertain. Since I hate retcons and feel annoyed with myself for rendering this one necessary, I'll go ahead and grant that you have naval dominance over all of your secondaries and the 1st Raiding can cover them in its patrol pattern acceptably. This will probably mean they're shitty and small secondary-attached clusters since I have limits, but they will be secure, shitty, and small secondary-attached clusters.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a write-in to codify into the update regarding trying to secondary your way to the Phoenix Massing from Sentry Omega.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
I just hope she likes looking at dusty ruins and ancient tech trying to kill her.
- Location
- South of North
Lystheni Diplomacy:
Total: 95,000 credits, -40,000 yearly trade income, Time: Unknown (likely depends on negotiations).
Lystheni War Plan:
Cost: 90,000 credits, -40,000 trade income, Time: Uknown (Likely depends on how combat goes, then negotiations.)
Okay, so I grouped the Lystheni options by what they're aimed to do.
No matter what we decide on the Lystheni, I think we need to take:
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: ...is to cut off their fucking fingers.
If we decide to negotiate, it lets the Lystheni know exactly how far we've taken the measure of their intelligence agencies and that we're not bluffing about how much dirt we have on them. More than enough to justify a war if need be.
If we decide to declare war, allowing the Lystheni to pull out or leave behind their intelligence network is probably a big mistake, given that we'll be listing 'all the spying' as part of our reasons for declaring war in the first place.
Regardless of what we decide, even or especially if we put the Lystheni decision off for another year, we should probably roll up their spy agency if at all possible.
Edit: In all honesty, we should probably do trade sanctions as well, since the Lystheni are building a navy out of our resources.
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: ...is to cut off their fucking fingers. Whether you're taking this conflict with them loud or not, you want to deal with their network now. You know exactly where it all is. If a part of that network extends past the Lystheni Embassy, rip it out. Anybody outside the embassy walls is fair game. Any equipment out in the open now belongs to you. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 85%. Cost: 25,000 credits. Effect: Inform the Lystheni that you see their intercept devices -- and that their presence does not well please you -- by way of removing it and any of its operators by force. Afterwards, pump them for everything they know or contain.
[ ] Lystheni (Making Demands): The Lystheni have transgressed against you time and again, and fresh offenses keep piling up. You could easily turn the courts of public opinion against the Lystheni. Do so, and open negotiations with them in a position of calamitous weakness. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 60%. Cost: 20,000 credits. Effect: Force negotiations with the Lystheni under the implied threat of war, and bargain against that threat to force demands on them.
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): You no longer trust the Lystheni to host your people, and you no longer care to provide them the materials they've used to keep their projects going. For the safety of your merchants and to choke off the flow of supplies, you are closing down all trade with the Lystheni, and making an organized withdrawal of your people effective immediately. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income). Effect: Halt all trade with the Lystheni, get your people out of there, and close the borders to free travel. The Lystheni, being possessed of non-zero intelligence quotients, will know that something is up. That said, re-opening trade would in and of itself be a potent bargaining chip in any eventual negotiations.
[ ] Backsplash: The situation with the Lystheni threatens to boil over, but unlike in previous years, you now have the military slack to bring your superior strength to bear on them. Whatever you do is likely to make them react strongly, and they have a navy. Ask Malan to shift a few patrol patterns. Time: 1 year. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%. Effect: Have the 3rd RWF deploy to active status along the border with Lystheni space. Highly provocative. Don't do this unless you do something that you think will piss them off to the point of possible violence. Mutually exclusive with the below option.
[ ] Lystheni (Making Demands): The Lystheni have transgressed against you time and again, and fresh offenses keep piling up. You could easily turn the courts of public opinion against the Lystheni. Do so, and open negotiations with them in a position of calamitous weakness. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 60%. Cost: 20,000 credits. Effect: Force negotiations with the Lystheni under the implied threat of war, and bargain against that threat to force demands on them.
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): You no longer trust the Lystheni to host your people, and you no longer care to provide them the materials they've used to keep their projects going. For the safety of your merchants and to choke off the flow of supplies, you are closing down all trade with the Lystheni, and making an organized withdrawal of your people effective immediately. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income). Effect: Halt all trade with the Lystheni, get your people out of there, and close the borders to free travel. The Lystheni, being possessed of non-zero intelligence quotients, will know that something is up. That said, re-opening trade would in and of itself be a potent bargaining chip in any eventual negotiations.
[ ] Backsplash: The situation with the Lystheni threatens to boil over, but unlike in previous years, you now have the military slack to bring your superior strength to bear on them. Whatever you do is likely to make them react strongly, and they have a navy. Ask Malan to shift a few patrol patterns. Time: 1 year. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%. Effect: Have the 3rd RWF deploy to active status along the border with Lystheni space. Highly provocative. Don't do this unless you do something that you think will piss them off to the point of possible violence. Mutually exclusive with the below option.
Total: 95,000 credits, -40,000 yearly trade income, Time: Unknown (likely depends on negotiations).
Lystheni War Plan:
[ ] Backstab: The Lystheni have committed countless transgressions against you. Off the top of your head, unrepentant and systematic spying, theft and use of military designs, production of a secret navy during a time of existential war, and to cap it all off, the violation of a signed treaty regarding borders, one to which you initially agreed as a concession to them. The 3rd could deploy to backstop any backlash from you yelling at the Lystheni; they could also just cut out the middleman. Time: 1 year. Cost: 45,000 credits. Chance of Success: 60%. Effect: Describe the situation to Malan, and have him be your arm in the your war with the Lystheni. Failure means either failure to convince him to declare war on behalf of the Republic of Rannoch and having to shift him to cover the 1st Raiding's patrols so they can do it, or more conventional military failures.
(Unnecessary, but polite
[ ] Lystheni (Casus Belli): While no one thing the Lystheni have done constitutes an ironclad cause for war, taken together, considering the history of continued provocations, they are a damning case. Inform the Lystheni Ambassador of your opinion of such actions, inform the Assembly of the change in your diplomatic relations, and then send the Ambassador and his people home. This war won't drag on for decades. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 100%. Cost: Free. Effect: Declare war on the Lystheni state. If you do not take, "Backstab," with this, then you will make no organized offensive. If you do not take, "Trade Sanctions," you will conduct no organized withdrawal of your people from Lystheni space in advance of the declaration. Declaring war against a trading partner when most of your forces are already otherwise committed is complicated.
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): You no longer trust the Lystheni to host your people, and you no longer care to provide them the materials they've used to keep their projects going. For the safety of your merchants and to choke off the flow of supplies, you are closing down all trade with the Lystheni, and making an organized withdrawal of your people effective immediately. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income). Effect: Halt all trade with the Lystheni, get your people out of there, and close the borders to free travel. The Lystheni, being possessed of non-zero intelligence quotients, will know that something is up. That said, re-opening trade would in and of itself be a potent bargaining chip in any eventual negotiations.
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: ...is to cut off their fucking fingers. Whether you're taking this conflict with them loud or not, you want to deal with their network now. You know exactly where it all is. If a part of that network extends past the Lystheni Embassy, rip it out. Anybody outside the embassy walls is fair game. Any equipment out in the open now belongs to you. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 85%. Cost: 25,000 credits. Effect: Inform the Lystheni that you see their intercept devices -- and that their presence does not well please you -- by way of removing it and any of its operators by force. Afterwards, pump them for everything they know or contain.
(Unnecessary, but polite
[ ] Lystheni (Casus Belli): While no one thing the Lystheni have done constitutes an ironclad cause for war, taken together, considering the history of continued provocations, they are a damning case. Inform the Lystheni Ambassador of your opinion of such actions, inform the Assembly of the change in your diplomatic relations, and then send the Ambassador and his people home. This war won't drag on for decades. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 100%. Cost: Free. Effect: Declare war on the Lystheni state. If you do not take, "Backstab," with this, then you will make no organized offensive. If you do not take, "Trade Sanctions," you will conduct no organized withdrawal of your people from Lystheni space in advance of the declaration. Declaring war against a trading partner when most of your forces are already otherwise committed is complicated.[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): You no longer trust the Lystheni to host your people, and you no longer care to provide them the materials they've used to keep their projects going. For the safety of your merchants and to choke off the flow of supplies, you are closing down all trade with the Lystheni, and making an organized withdrawal of your people effective immediately. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income). Effect: Halt all trade with the Lystheni, get your people out of there, and close the borders to free travel. The Lystheni, being possessed of non-zero intelligence quotients, will know that something is up. That said, re-opening trade would in and of itself be a potent bargaining chip in any eventual negotiations.
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: ...is to cut off their fucking fingers. Whether you're taking this conflict with them loud or not, you want to deal with their network now. You know exactly where it all is. If a part of that network extends past the Lystheni Embassy, rip it out. Anybody outside the embassy walls is fair game. Any equipment out in the open now belongs to you. Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 85%. Cost: 25,000 credits. Effect: Inform the Lystheni that you see their intercept devices -- and that their presence does not well please you -- by way of removing it and any of its operators by force. Afterwards, pump them for everything they know or contain.
Cost: 90,000 credits, -40,000 trade income, Time: Uknown (Likely depends on how combat goes, then negotiations.)
Okay, so I grouped the Lystheni options by what they're aimed to do.
No matter what we decide on the Lystheni, I think we need to take:
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: ...is to cut off their fucking fingers.
If we decide to negotiate, it lets the Lystheni know exactly how far we've taken the measure of their intelligence agencies and that we're not bluffing about how much dirt we have on them. More than enough to justify a war if need be.
If we decide to declare war, allowing the Lystheni to pull out or leave behind their intelligence network is probably a big mistake, given that we'll be listing 'all the spying' as part of our reasons for declaring war in the first place.
Regardless of what we decide, even or especially if we put the Lystheni decision off for another year, we should probably roll up their spy agency if at all possible.
Edit: In all honesty, we should probably do trade sanctions as well, since the Lystheni are building a navy out of our resources.
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Is the bolded bit also a retcon? The Rachni made a multiple primary relay dash in less than a day, if memory serves. I may also be misunderstanding the use of the word "activate" in this context.
- Location
- USA
Honestly, it might actually be best to declare war on the Lystheni at this point. We can't fully commit to improving ourselves until they're dealt with since that'd lock up both military actions for 3 turns, and that's just not a good thing. I don't want to since the real enemy is the Rachni, but we'll do what we have to do if pushed.
Huh? Do you mean days to weeks to first activate a relay and generally make it usable?
Huh? Do you mean days to weeks to first activate a relay and generally make it usable?
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
It's actually not on the Lore Screen on the front page. But thanks for the infodump. I think that what you've come up with here makes more sense than what was said in canon. Though it does mean that establishing a link to the Phoenix Massing is going to be iffy at best. Looks like we're still going to have to take the Nubian Expanse and Hades Nexus eventually to solidify a route to the wider galaxy.
- Location
- Aotearoa
Well, 1 we now have the Explorer Corps, and 2 it should be sufficient to courier a message, and drop comm buoys along the way? Stick a couple of noble Quarian officers on board.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Alright, update updated with the write-in! Under, "Learning," as, "The Road Less Traveled."
Also, folks...you know that you don't need to take, "Casus Belli," in order to attack the Lystheni, right? That's the polite thing to do, but...well, salarians are fans of undeclared wars, aren't they?
Also, folks...you know that you don't need to take, "Casus Belli," in order to attack the Lystheni, right? That's the polite thing to do, but...well, salarians are fans of undeclared wars, aren't they?
Activated for the first time. Activate: To open for the first time. Use: To use for transit.
Gah, fucking accordion code. It was there, but the code broke. It's now visible.
- Location
- Canada
I agree we should take Colony Equipment
- Location
- Aotearoa
So the EC would actually be in for an unknown series of these activations, hopefully towards Phoenix? If they connect and jump to another (previously) deactivated relay, is it then activated and able to reuse shortly? Or does it need another few weeks of activation? Is there any control over where you are attempting to connect to?
- Location
- United States of America
@PoptartProdigy will we automatically pay off the rest of the debt or will it need an action?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They need to sit and wait for it to activate. There's a reason most of that option is question marks. And yes, there is control, although you only know heading (not even distance). The concern is...if you come to a relay with no connections towards your destination but two off to either side, do you deviate to either side and risk running into Rachni territory even more, or just go home?
Hell, I forget about it being there half the time. I'm just gonna wipe it from the screen when the results post drops.
- Location
- United States
Ugh. She herself is the product of power bloc party politics i.e. a military coup with her as the compromise chosen. She lost before she even began.
- Location
- Toronto
I definitely think we need to deal with Lystheni while we still have the breathing room. The Lystheni problem has been put on the backburner for too long. Given what we know about the Lystheni, the diplomatic option is just delaying the inevitable. Clearly hostile, paranoid and literally becoming space North Korea on our borders.
Slayer Anderson's Lystheni War Plan for the win- For one turn, we bite the bullet and deal with this problem while it's manageable. Plus we have also an uncommitted 3rd to throw against this problem
Then we can focus on military reform and logistics upgrades
Slayer Anderson's Lystheni War Plan for the win- For one turn, we bite the bullet and deal with this problem while it's manageable. Plus we have also an uncommitted 3rd to throw against this problem
Then we can focus on military reform and logistics upgrades
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I would not characterize what occurred as a compromise so much as, "Mira specifically selecting for the coup units she knew for a fact preferred her to Kerak, and giving them orders." She likes democracy, but she did not feel up to leaving her coup to chance.
- Location
- Somewhere near L1... I think
Tentative plan made by sleepy Alfa:
[ ] Marine Expansion: Time: 2 years. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
[ ] Backsplash: Time: 1 year. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
[ ] Lystheni (Making Demands): Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 60%. Cost: 20,000 credits.
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income)
[ ] Impending Crisis:Time: 2 years. Chance of Success: 55%. Cost: 36,000 credits.
[ ] New Cities: Time: 4 years. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -40,000 yearly income until option concludes.
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 85%. Cost: 25,000 credits.
[ ] Board of Shareholders: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 65%. Cost: 35,000 credits.
[ ] Barrier Miniaturization: Time: ? Chance of Success: Cumulative Cost: -35,000 yearly income until option completes.
[ ] Prothean Examination: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: ? Cost: 10,000 credits.
[ ] Personal Attention:
[ ] Personal Attention:
[ ] The Prime Minister Is Coming Here?: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: ? Cost: 10,000 credits.
[ ] Marine Expansion: Time: 2 years. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
[ ] Backsplash: Time: 1 year. Cost: 30,000 credits. Chance of Success: 70%.
[ ] Lystheni (Making Demands): Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 60%. Cost: 20,000 credits.
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions): Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 70%. Cost 20,000 credits, trade income (-40,000 yearly income)
[ ] Impending Crisis:Time: 2 years. Chance of Success: 55%. Cost: 36,000 credits.
[ ] New Cities: Time: 4 years. Chance of Success: 75%. Cost: -40,000 yearly income until option concludes.
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets...: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 85%. Cost: 25,000 credits.
[ ] Board of Shareholders: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: 65%. Cost: 35,000 credits.
[ ] Barrier Miniaturization: Time: ? Chance of Success: Cumulative Cost: -35,000 yearly income until option completes.
[ ] Prothean Examination: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: ? Cost: 10,000 credits.
[ ] Personal Attention:
[ ] Personal Attention:
[ ] The Prime Minister Is Coming Here?: Time: 1 year. Chance of Success: ? Cost: 10,000 credits.
This is where I am, too. Overall I think a plan like this makes sense:
[ ] Integrating Reforms
[ ] Backsplash
[ ] Lystheni (Making Demands)
[ ] Lystheni (Trade Sanctions)
[ ] Colony Equipment
[ ] Economic Review
[ ] The Best Way To Deal With Pickpockets
[ ] Board of Shareholders
[ ] Dietary Supplements
[ ] Prothean Examination
[ ] Personal Attention: Lystheni (Making Demands)
[ ] Personal Attention: Integrating Reforms
[ ] Personal Attention: Economic Review
Personal attention goes on our diplomacy and on the chancy multiyear projects. Economic review feels a little more urgent than our other multiyear stewardship options since it has been sitting longer.
- Location
- United States
Okay. But it still means she had the majority of her support from the military and that was her power bloc. She was never a check on the party system because she is not above the system. All this means is that she's formed her own power bloc which is not a formal party but still acts in a tribal fashion in the government. Like how there was so much animosity between her and the corporations because they had no overlap and saw each other as competitors.