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No, they are ammonia based same way we are water based. This type of biochemistry has been speculated about since 1950s.
Hypothetical types of biochemistry - Wikipedia
That's why they need pressure suits, ammonia boils at ~-30C at Earth's atmosperic pressure.
EDIT: Whoops I missed the entire page, which also already has this info.

"The same way we are water based" is very different from the replace carbon with ammonia poptart prodigy talked about earlier. It sounds more sensible. In fact it still means replacing oxygen (with nitrogen & hydrogen compounds, if I read this wiki correctly).
 
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"The same way we are water based" is very different from the replace carbon with ammonia poptart prodigy talked about earlier. It sounds more sensible. In fact it still means replacing oxygen (with nitrogen & hydrogen compounds, if I read this wiki correctly).
I don't see how "Replace carbon with ammonia" would make sense at all.
 
I don't see how "Replace carbon with ammonia" would make sense at all.

Well, in the sense of "replace as a core structural atom", maybe (though maybe not, I'm not that good at chemistry). Literally replace, of course, makes no sense.
 
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Well, in the sense of "replace as a core structural atom", maybe (though maybe not, I'm not that good at chemistry). Literally replace, of course, makes no sense.
According to Wiki, ammonia is NH3. That cannot replace carbon as structural element. At least if life requires complex molecules.
 
According to Wiki, ammonia is NH3. That cannot replace carbon as structural element. At least if life requires complex molecules.

Of course, by that, I meant nitrogen replacing carbon, not the whole molecule.

Just skimming wikipedia, nitrogen can form circles like carbon (Borazine - Wikipedia) for example, so it could maybe have a structuring role. As I said, I'm not a chemistry expert though.
 
Nitrogen-based biochemistry, in the sense of "nitrogen replaces carbon" probably wouldn't work. Can't go into why I think so in the available time, could be wrong.

Heck, consider the stats you put up for Irune.
The normal boiling point of ammonia is -33 degrees Celsius at 1 atmosphere.
At a temperature of 9 degrees Celsius and pressure of 60 atmospheres, the boiling point of ammonia would be ~80 degrees Celsius. It would be liquid at surface temperatures.
Uh yes, yes it would. That's to be expected for the working fluid of a planetary ecology. Sort of like how water is a liquid at Earth's typical surface temperatures...

TL; DR
Irune would not have an atmosphere of ammonia. Just seas. Yet they claim there is an atmosphere and that volus live on land and breathe gaseous ammonia. Just a reminder that Bioware cannot into basic physics/chemistry/biology.
Which is why I keep to the fluff, mostly.
I see no reference on the wiki to the volus breathing ammonia, any more than humans breathe water.

I mean, we DO breathe in water molecules with every breath we take, it's just that the water we inhale is in no way necessary for life.

While I'm still waffling on what precisely the habitability requirements for volus are (since Bioware does, as you mention, fuck that up an awful lot), I'm going to go ahead and rule that Nemata is uninhabitable to them. Atmosphere is too thin, and all sources are very clear on what that means for them.
The main issue from the wiki is that Nemata is way, WAY too hot. Surface temperature is well above the boiling point of water. FAR above the boiling point of ammonia.

In fact, what are we meant to infer about volus biology? It's ammonia-based -- does that mean they're ammonia-based like we're carbon-based? Because we don't consume carbon in any reasonably direct form. If I eat a diamond, the best-case scenario is that it passes through me without tearing something important; if I eat any of the various breeds of coals, I get sick. And everybody knows what happens if you try to breathe particulate coal. That would imply that Irune can't feature consumable or breathable ammonia to any significant extent if it supports ammonia-based life, or is that different for volus? Do they drink ammonia? Do they breathe it? How do they use this stuff? The wiki doesn't say. Of what is Irune's atmosphere actually composed? Because looking at the wiki, it doesn't say. It's quite eager to inform me that it's not a nitrogen-oxygen mix, but feels content to remain silent on the matter of what it actually is. Come to think of it, how does life come to be based on a compound rather than an element? The wiki, in what is becoming a pattern, does not say. Why not make the volus silicon-based? That's a popular carbon alternative in science fiction. What does having an ammonia-based ecology, when you get down to it, actually mean?

The wiki remains silent. All I can find is that Irune has an ammonia-based ecology. Nothing more.
Hang on, I can help!

Okay, the wiki's only annoying remark here is "The volus are unable to survive unprotected in an atmosphere more suitable to humans and other carbon-based lifeforms." This implies, but does not require, that the volus not be carbon-based.

Carbon-based biology that uses ammonia as a working fluid the way humans use water as a working fluid is a fairly well conceptualized 'hypothetical biochemistry,' there's details on Wikipedia. There are some significant differences and caveats but it's doable.

So the best explanation is that the Wiki sentence is simply poorly worded, and that the volus aren't "ammonia-based" in the sense that you're "carbon-based," but rather in the sense that you're "water-based." And while you can't eat elemental carbon, you CAN eat pure water almost without possibility of harm as long as you don't manage to physically burst yourself from sheer overconsumption. You can even inhale (very small quantities of preferably vaporized) water without harm!

And yes, ammonia biochemistry is very very incompatible with an oxygen atmosphere. Because ammonia is flammable in oxygen. I'd honestly expect a suit-punctured volus to be at high risk of simply bursting into flames if there was a reasonably hot ignition source nearby.

aserhasjldghajkzlxsdfvfuckinghellBioWare.

I may quietly retcon to that. Don't know for certain.
The wiki is, so far as I can tell, entirely compatible with this.[/QUOTE]
 
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Of course, by that, I meant nitrogen replacing carbon, not the whole molecule.

Just skimming wikipedia, nitrogen can form circles like carbon (Borazine - Wikipedia) for example, so it could maybe have a structuring role. As I said, I'm not a chemistry expert though.

The problem with molecules with a nitrogen backbone is that they tend to be highly explosive. Generally more explosive the larger the molecules. I suppose if organisms had evolved in really low temperatures, life might be able to use such molecules, but under any conditions familiar to us humans such life would be walking talking piles of plastic explosive.

fasquardon
 
Nitrogen-based biochemistry, in the sense of "nitrogen replaces carbon" probably wouldn't work. Can't go into why I think so in the available time, could be wrong.
If I remember my orgo well enough, it's mostly because Nitrogen can't easily form the same number of bonds that Carbon can. Carbon has four available electrons in its valence shell, Nitrogen has three. At a basic level, that limit decreases the number and type of polymers that can conceivably formed.

This is the same reason Silicon is plausible. It has four valence electrons. The problem there is the atom is just too big.

The problem with molecules with a nitrogen backbone is that they tend to be highly explosive. Generally more explosive the larger the molecules. I suppose if organisms had evolved in really low temperatures, life might be able to use such molecules, but under any conditions familiar to us humans such life would be walking talking piles of plastic explosive.

That too, but that isn't a good reason why, given different planetary conditions could make that feasible. And an ammonia based solvent would have the same problems.

Chemistry wise, it's the valence shell limit that nixes Nitrogen.
 
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The problem with molecules with a nitrogen backbone is that they tend to be highly explosive. Generally more explosive the larger the molecules. I suppose if organisms had evolved in really low temperatures, life might be able to use such molecules, but under any conditions familiar to us humans such life would be walking talking piles of plastic explosive.

fasquardon

To put into perspective how explosive this is, aziroazide azide, a fairly small 2 Carbon 14 Nitrogen compound, is so explosive that the force of light hitting it while it's at near absolute zero temperatures will cause the chemical to explode. Testosterone, for reference, is C19​H28​O2​, substantial larger and something like a million times more chemically stable. If you look at the list of Most Powerful Non-Nuclear Explosives, it's basically a resume for Nitrogen solids. There are no known primary nitrogen compounds bigger than aziroazide azide; any hypothetical example would explode too quickly to be studied.

Nitrogen is really, really bad at bonding to things because it has 5 valence electrons. Two of those electrons 'pair up' and are happy while the other three are open to forming covalent bonds (carbon can form 4 bonds). The fact that Nitrogen has a lone pair (two paired up electrons) means that its covalent bond angle will be smaller than carbon's (lone pairs take up more 'space' than bonding electrons) and thus have to overcome a higher degree of electrostatic repulsion as bonding electrons are forced closer together.

Nitrogen also has issues because it's strongly electronegative (4th highest on the periodic table). That means it tends to snatch electrons from other atoms and hold onto them tightly. This tends to lead to 'lopsided' chemicals that are unevenly electrically charged as every nitrogen is trying to snatch electrons for itself. This electrochemical stress tends to make things very high energy and very unstable. Carbon doesn't tend to have this problem nearly as bad because its electronegativity is very similar to Hydrogen (a staple of many biomolecules) so the bonds tend to have very little electrochemical charge.

So not only does nitrogen not cooperate as well as carbon, but it's a lot greedier.

Now, Nitrogen can be useful biologically, but mostly as a solvent. NH3​, ammonia, can serve as a Lewis acid (creating NH2​-​) or Lewis base (NH4​+​). That's basically the role water serves in our cells, alternating between OH-​ and OH3​+​ to donate or store electrons as needed. Being able to act as both a Lewis base (donates a lone pair of electrons) and Lewis acid (receive of a lone pair of electrons) is chemically unusual and necessary for life. It's necessary to temporarily store electrochemical charge for biochemistry. Ammonia wouldn't be as good at this as water, but it does work.
 
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The problem with molecules with a nitrogen backbone is that they tend to be highly explosive. Generally more explosive the larger the molecules. I suppose if organisms had evolved in really low temperatures, life might be able to use such molecules, but under any conditions familiar to us humans such life would be walking talking piles of plastic explosive.

fasquardon

Would it be explosive without oxygen in the atmosphere, though?
Oxygen making Volus explode would be darkly humorous and give another reason for the suits.
Another problem with nitrogen is that N2​ is extremely stable, right?
 
The difference between an explosive and a flammable material is generally that the explosive will go 'boom' without an outside source of oxygen. Gasoline, for instance, won't burn without oxygen. Dynamite will definitely explode without oxygen.

And when it does, the culprit is generally a nitrogen-nitrogen or nitrogen-oxygen bond in the molecule breaking.
 
Isn't aziroazide azide even more explosive than that in they had in a dark climate controlled room in a shock proof explosive case and it blew up
 
I'm pretty sure small fluctuations in gravity causes that stuff to explode.

And by small, I mean 'Something nearby moved around'... Though it might take a few things before you get the fluctuation to happen at the same time as the explosive feels even more explodey than normal... :p
 
I'm pretty sure small fluctuations in gravity causes that stuff to explode.

And by small, I mean 'Something nearby moved around'... Though it might take a few things before you get the fluctuation to happen at the same time as the explosive feels even more explodey than normal... :p
I thought you'd need an electron feel like tunneling and then ... boom.
 
What I want to know is how the hell they got it in the case?
It didn't feel like exploding at the moment.

I mean they managed to somehow get it somewhere for testing just how sensitive it is, The conclusion was too sensitive to measures how sensitive it is because even the smallest loadings of shock and friction tests lead to explosive decomposition.
 
If I remember correctly, it's more that they're ammonia based like we're oxygen based, not carbon. So they breathe it. But it could just be me extrapolating from what little we really learn. They probably use carbon too in a lot of their biological structure.
Ammonia is chemically somewhat similar to water so liquid ammonia may serve the same roles for them as water plays for us. It's important to note that ammonia is a compound, not an element. Nitrogen can't form as many covalent bonds as carbon, so a nitrogen-based biochemistry (nitrogen does play an important role in biochemistry but not like carbon does) isn't really feasible.
Edit: Didn't read the rest of the discussion before posting. Biochem's still heavily on my mind because I took the MCAT a couple weeks ago...
 
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