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@uju32 convinced me, I'm switching my vote.

[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.
 
I kind of see the choice as a prisoner's dillemma.

There are four factions bordering the Rachni [Us, Quarians, Council, Batarians]. If every faction chooses the defensive strategy, the Rachni (with their massive territory advantage and fast breeding) win. If one faction chooses a non-defensive strategy, and the rest choose the defensive strategy, the first faction loses. If every faction chooses a non-defensive strategy, the Rachni lose.

We can also surmise that the type of strategy we employ will determine how post-war relations (and how the spoils are divided) will be.
-Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Minimal impact on the war. Neutral relations.
-Adopt Fleet Battle Doctrine. Moderate impact on the war. Warm relations.
-Adopt Raiding Doctrine. High impact on the war. Good relations.
-Adopt Ground Assault Doctrine. Massive impact on the war. Excellent relations.

This game follows the wiki quite well.

Anyway, it's currently the year 491 GS or 35 CE. The Krogan will not be uplifted till the year 80 CE. The Rachni won't be defeated till 300 CE.

That means that for the next 45 years at least, the Citadel and all others will be fighting a desperate, losing battle.
 
Anything but the citadel doctrine.

Imho, as a third rate we need to do something else, and preferably something offensive as we can not go into a attrition tug of war.

Back to maximum pirate. It won't be the example of a potential way to win the war for the combatants, but at least it will allow us to bring disproportionate damage to the bugs and has the highest rate for a linkup. Still not exploring a potential avenue of not needing the Krogan but perhaps we can revise this once we get a space coridor back up( unlikely, but possible, people do chance doctrines mid war if shit does not work)

[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.

[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.

[X][MARINES] Completely reform the marines, making them a massive, elite force capable of striking any target from space without army support. Will require immediate production of dedicated vessels and a navy-wide refit.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Miner249er on Nov 4, 2017 at 2:37 PM, finished with 116 posts and 58 votes.
 
not gona question ya, cause, like other sides your arguments are valid, has pros and cons , but so does everyones, Just wanted to ask about army (and navy) sizes, is it somewhat similar to this?:

Army Units & Sizes
Unit Name Consists of [1]: Approx Number of men: Commanded
by:
Army 2 or more Corps 100,000 to 150,000 Field Marshal or General
Corps 2 or more Divisions 25,000 to 50,000 General or Lt. Gen.
Division 3 or more Brigades or Regiments 10,000 to 15,000 Lt. Gen or Maj. Gen.
Brigade 3 or more Battalions 1500 to 3500 Maj. Gen, Brigadier or Col.
Regiment[2] 2 or more Battalions 1000 to 2000 Col.
Battalion 4 or more Companies 400 to 1000 Lt. Col.
Company 2 or more Platoons 100 to 250 Captain or Maj
Platoon (Troop) 2 or more Squads 16 to 50 1st Lt.
Squad 2 or more Sections 8 to 24 Sgt.
Section 4 to 12 Sgt.
And shouldn't we also worry about equipment and vehicles? like Tanks, transports, aircrafts, portable mortars, automated (and/or portable) defences, spying or surveillance, etc.
 
not gona question ya, cause, like other sides your arguments are valid, has pros and cons , but so does everyones, Just wanted to ask about army (and navy) sizes, is it somewhat similar to this?:

Army Units & Sizes
Unit Name Consists of [1]: Approx Number of men: Commanded
by:
Army 2 or more Corps 100,000 to 150,000 Field Marshal or General
Corps 2 or more Divisions 25,000 to 50,000 General or Lt. Gen.
Division 3 or more Brigades or Regiments 10,000 to 15,000 Lt. Gen or Maj. Gen.
Brigade 3 or more Battalions 1500 to 3500 Maj. Gen, Brigadier or Col.
Regiment[2] 2 or more Battalions 1000 to 2000 Col.
Battalion 4 or more Companies 400 to 1000 Lt. Col.
Company 2 or more Platoons 100 to 250 Captain or Maj
Platoon (Troop) 2 or more Squads 16 to 50 1st Lt.
Squad 2 or more Sections 8 to 24 Sgt.
Section   4 to 12 Sgt.
And shouldn't we also worry about equipment and vehicles? like Tanks, transports, aircrafts, portable mortars, automated (and/or portable) defences, spying or surveillance, etc.
That is well below our current level of abstraction; you won't ever concern yourselves with this level of detail. But if I ever need to dive into ground-level stuff for flavor, it'll look a fair bit like that. Different -- I read the USA's wikipedia articles on unit sizes -- but similar.

You also won't need to bother with the acquisition of individual units' worth of equipment. If you expand the army, you'll be assumed to be buying its requisite equipment as part of the option.
 
Although, come to think, it wouldn't be a bad idea to tweak the Status Screen a bit to give you a little more detail on your particular army and what it contains.
Not if it increases your workload.
This being ME, the closest we're going to get to on-screen ground combat is small team insertion for discrete targets.
Not really sure there is much gained by getting granular about ground units.

Your decision though.
 
[X][FLEET] Large Fleets. Large fleets will be able to secure their zones of responsibility with greater ease, but given the administrative difficulties in spreading them out across multiple clusters, and the inescapable fact that you'll be able to afford fewer, you will be able to cover less ground.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
 
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[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.

So, I've found this quest, and it was an interesting read.

As of current question...
Ultimately, our colony is small. 5*10^9 with, I would guess, no more than hundred million born every year. Even if we clad all of them with flashlights and cardboard, we would be unable to sustain groundside fighting without orbital domination. Therefore, I wouldn't go for Ground Forces focus.
Raiding focus is looking good, but remember, we had denied Rachni entry into Sentry Omega cluster while having vastly less resources than them. What is to stop them from using this experience and make any attempt to insert raiding force too expensive for us?
As numerous posters noted, Fleet Battle is not exactly suitable for us. Decisive battles generally favor those in possession of bigger & better forces first and defenders second, and we don't have forces to spare. So, we have to build up, meaning we end at Territory Defense Doctrine in any case.

As for Marine Corps... Establishing entire new branch means Navy would have to get new armsmen somewhere, and we get lots of ground-fighting forces. Considering that we have Navy as our top priority, I wouldn't go as far and just grant the request.
Anyway, if we had established Marine Corps, there would be question of the army and what to do with it. IMO, better to avoid the question altogether, and if we would need regiments of men in droppods - we can establish them within the Army.

As for Big Fleets vs Many Fleets... IMO, Many Fleets is a better choice because a smaller fleet is easier to handle, and considering that we don't build dreadnoughts and are at massive disadvantage in terms of production, we have to have a flexible and mobile Navy.
Multi-fleet engagement should be handled by the top brass in any case.

P.S.
Some questions.
Collision with a sufficiently large asteroid at sufficient velocity can shatter the Relay, as shown in ME2 DLC Arrival. So, can we reposition some sufficiently big asteroid (I'm talking at least dozens of kilometers big. Better if it would be hundreds) sufficiently close to Sentry Omega relay in Attican Beta system, riddle it with tunnels, bases and mobile anti-ship missile (Read 'rebuilt torpedo') batteries and rig it to blow to deny Rachni usage of Attican Beta system / Atiican Beta-Sentry Omega relay?
Can we move asteroids to other relays and blow them in such a way that their (moving) debris would deny Rachni safe navigation into Attican Beta cluster for some time?

And, (hopefully) not a stupid idea this time - does our command have any statistics as to what was effective and what was not? Could we order some sort of study for Learning/War action to open further research (Like, "Bigger guns have shown their effects. Our ships fundamentally use not quite effective older ones, but we have such and such projects, and only if we got, say, some fifty thousands of credits..." or "Torpedoes are hardly countered by Rachni ships. Can you assign some funding to development of new torpedoes and their delivery systems?" or "While reclaiming of Attican Beta was a epochal victory, communication logs show potential pitfalls with the rapid development of our Navy, as current communication protocols are not quite fit to battles including hundreds of ships including capital ones, and...")?
 
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[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.
[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Fleet Battle Doctrine. Your navy will not be the navy to destroy the Rachni's fleets. However, you will be called upon to fight the Rachni, time and again, whether or not you want to do so. If you are to survive and support the allies you soon hope to contact, you will need to be capable of holding your own in a stand-up fight.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.
 
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Honestly if it increase your work load by too much but knowing where our ground forces excel at will be useful like would our army be better on the offensive or defence but as for detail that is up to you I doubt we will need that much.

Also as a side note but this is the best I can think to word it and it seems a bit rude so sorry
 
Current Tally:
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest | Page 221 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 5513-5635]
##### NetTally 1.9.9

Task: FLEET

[44][FLEET] Many Fleets.
[16][FLEET] Large Fleets.


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: DOCTRINE

[30][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine.
[25][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine.
[5][DOCTRINE] Adopt Ground Assault Doctrine.
[1][DOCTRINE] Adopt Fleet Battle Doctrine. Your navy will not be the navy to destroy the Rachni's fleets. However, you will be called upon to fight the Rachni, time and again, whether or not you want to do so. If you are to survive and support the allies you soon hope to contact, you will need to be capable of holding your own in a stand-up fight.


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MARINES

[47][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request.
[11][MARINES] Completely reform the marines, making them a massive, elite force capable of striking any target from space without army support. Will require immediate production of dedicated vessels and a navy-wide refit.

Total No. of Voters: 61
 
P.S.
Some questions.
[1] Collision with a sufficiently large asteroid at sufficient velocity can shatter the Relay, as shown in ME2 DLC Arrival. So, can we reposition some sufficiently big asteroid (I'm talking at least dozens of kilometers big. Better if it would be hundreds) sufficiently close to Sentry Omega relay in Attican Beta system, riddle it with tunnels, bases and mobile anti-ship missile (Read 'rebuilt torpedo') batteries and rig it to blow to deny Rachni usage of Attican Beta system / Atiican Beta-Sentry Omega relay?
Can we move asteroids to other relays and blow them in such a way that their (moving) debris would deny Rachni safe navigation into Attican Beta cluster for some time?

[2] And, (hopefully) not a stupid idea this time - does our command have any statistics as to what was effective and what was not? Could we order some sort of study for Learning/War action to open further research (Like, "Bigger guns have shown their effects. Our ships fundamentally use not quite effective older ones, but we have such and such projects, and only if we got, say, some fifty thousands of credits..." or "Torpedoes are hardly countered by Rachni ships. Can you assign some funding to development of new torpedoes and their delivery systems?" or "While reclaiming of Attican Beta was a epochal victory, communication logs show potential pitfalls with the rapid development of our Navy, as current communication protocols are not quite fit to battles including hundreds of ships including capital ones, and...")?

1. AFAIK, this is entirely meta knowledge, relays are currently regarded as INVULNERABLE, and will be for the next 2000+ years.

2. My read is that MEverse military doctrine is quite robust, we do have a General Staff who do this duty continuously. They produced the current 4 options, and would certainly consider out-of-the-box ideas.
 
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Not if it increases your workload.
This being ME, the closest we're going to get to on-screen ground combat is small team insertion for discrete targets.
Not really sure there is much gained by getting granular about ground units.

Your decision though.
It's already done. It basically reduces to, "you have a lot of islands and oceans, so you're good at operating on and around water." As much detail as we're getting into at this point.
[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.
[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit.

So, I've found this quest, and it was an interesting read.

As of current question...
Ultimately, our colony is small. 5*10^9 with, I would guess, no more than hundred million born every year. Even if we clad all of them with flashlights and cardboard, we would be unable to sustain groundside fighting without orbital domination. Therefore, I wouldn't go for Ground Forces focus.
Raiding focus is looking good, but remember, we had denied Rachni entry into Sentry Omega cluster while having vastly less resources than them. What is to stop them from using this experience and make any attempt to insert raiding force too expensive for us?
As numerous posters noted, Fleet Battle is not exactly suitable for us. Decisive battles generally favor those in possession of bigger & better forces first and defenders second, and we don't have forces to spare. So, we have to build up, meaning we end at Territory Defense Doctrine in any case.

As for Marine Corps... Establishing entire new branch means Navy would have to get new armsmen somewhere, and we get lots of ground-fighting forces. Considering that we have Navy as our top priority, I wouldn't go as far and just grant the request.
Anyway, if we had established Marine Corps, there would be question of the army and what to do with it. IMO, better to avoid the question altogether, and if we would need regiments of men in droppods - we can establish them within the Army.

As for Big Fleets vs Many Fleets... IMO, Many Fleets is a better choice because a smaller fleet is easier to handle, and considering that we don't build dreadnoughts and are at massive disadvantage in terms of production, we have to have a flexible and mobile Navy.
Multi-fleet engagement should be handled by the top brass in any case.

P.S.
Some questions.
Collision with a sufficiently large asteroid at sufficient velocity can shatter the Relay, as shown in ME2 DLC Arrival. So, can we reposition some sufficiently big asteroid (I'm talking at least dozens of kilometers big. Better if it would be hundreds) sufficiently close to Sentry Omega relay in Attican Beta system, riddle it with tunnels, bases and mobile anti-ship missile (Read 'rebuilt torpedo') batteries and rig it to blow to deny Rachni usage of Attican Beta system / Atiican Beta-Sentry Omega relay?
Can we move asteroids to other relays and blow them in such a way that their (moving) debris would deny Rachni safe navigation into Attican Beta cluster for some time?

And, (hopefully) not a stupid idea this time - does our command have any statistics as to what was effective and what was not? Could we order some sort of study for Learning/War action to open further research (Like, "Bigger guns have shown their effects. Our ships fundamentally use not quite effective older ones, but we have such and such projects, and only if we got, say, some fifty thousands of credits..." or "Torpedoes are hardly countered by Rachni ships. Can you assign some funding to development of new torpedoes and their delivery systems?" or "While reclaiming of Attican Beta was a epochal victory, communication logs show potential pitfalls with the rapid development of our Navy, as current communication protocols are not quite fit to battles including hundreds of ships including capital ones, and...")?
A few responses:

Nobody launches ground invasions without orbital dominance, and the ground support doctrine does not change that; it optimizes the efficiency of orbital fire. It does not launch invasions in contested orbits.

Marines: Marines historically were responsible for shipboard security even when they were their own branch; that is the dynamic Virmire presently has, and it would not change if you expand. It may change later, but not now.

The marines also would not replace the army. Even the largest expansion would only have enough soldiers to force initial landings and establish beachheads. Pacifying planets entirely would need the army. Beefing up the marines would be for the purpose of establishing a force with the training to conduct those initial landings. Whether the marines get it or the army does, somebody needs that training.

If you're asking if you can shatter a relay, Mira wouldn't authorize that even if she thought it would work. If you're asking if you can turn an asteroid into a rubble minefield, you can, but rocks aren't going to do much to armor designed to deal with mass accelerator strikes.

Your general staff does constantly adapt tactics and doctrine, yes.
 
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I'm pretty sure that the asteroid in Arrival was pretty huge, and also had some sort of insane doomsday device on it.
 
It's a supernova. the whole star system and some of it's neighbours die if relay goes "boom". Noone sane would doe this unless we're fighting the Reapers, and that's still waaaaaaaay off.

Yep. Could we reposition some asteroids sufficiently close to a relay, riddle them with holes and seed them with mobile missile batteries as a some sort of an area denial?
Big asteroids could be shattered by kinetic strikes, but it would take time to do so, which Rachni should ultimately not have in the case on Relay assault.
 
Yep. Could we reposition some asteroids sufficiently close to a relay, riddle them with holes and seed them with mobile missile batteries as a some sort of an area denial?
Big asteroids could be shattered by kinetic strikes, but it would take time to do so, which Rachni should ultimately not have in the case on Relay assault.
You could do this, or you could crap out some mines of similar design and lesser cost (finding, shattering, seeding, and towing those asteroids takes up a lot of time and starship fuel, along with mining equipment). More reliable, too.
 
Really the only reason to use asteroids as opposed to mines is it will be easier to fake that it isn't us. Though in our current position that doesn't matter much. But really for the defence we can bulid much better things than that though that reminds me is there a limit to how much we can improve our defence platforms or is it just how much research we want to put into it
 
Really the only reason to use asteroids as opposed to mines is it will be easier to fake that it isn't us. Though in our current position that doesn't matter much. But really for the defence we can bulid much better things than that though that reminds me is there a limit to how much we can improve our defence platforms or is it just how much research we want to put into it
They'll improve in tandem with your tech, up until the point where the refits would be more expensive than replacing tham.
 
Alright, I'm writing my quest update tomorrow, so I'll close then. For now, here's your tally:

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest | Page 221 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 5513-5635]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

Task: FLEET

[X][FLEET] Many Fleets. Smaller fleets will struggle to address determined resistance and force you to bring in reinforcements from other fleets, but can be produced in greater numbers, allowing you to more reliably cover ground.
No. of Votes: 44

[X][FLEET] Large Fleets. Large fleets will be able to secure their zones of responsibility with greater ease, but given the administrative difficulties in spreading them out across multiple clusters, and the inescapable fact that you'll be able to afford fewer, you will be able to cover less ground.
No. of Votes: 16


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: DOCTRINE

[X][DOCTRINE] Retain Territory Defense Doctrine. Ultimately, Virmire remains a world with its back against the wall, and any offensives you make must be made only once you are sure of your position. Turtle up, and turtle harder. Make your space a brick wall, against which the Rachni might break themselves. You will serve the larger struggle with the forces the Rachni must devote to bottling you up. Will not cost additional resources to implement.
No. of Votes: 30

[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Raiding Doctrine. Virmire faces a situation outside the planning of conventional military thinkers, and thus it is only fitting that you adopt a doctrine designed by Virmireans. You cannot hope to face the Rachni in the open once they truly turn their focus to you. Instead focus on slipping through their lines and striking at their rear, wreaking havoc and forcing them to split their focus a thousand ways. The chaos you leave in your wake will be your contribution to the struggle.
No. of Votes: 25

[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Ground Assault Doctrine. Eventually, the fight must come to the Rachni's home worlds. You do not want to lose territory and see the Rachni fully re-establish their presence there within the year. You do not want to spend half your strength watching over blockaded worlds. Your resources are precious enough as it is. Virmire's armies will march to the thunder of mass accelerators, and smash the Rachni wherever they may be found. The wounds you leave will be lasting ones. Your contribution to the war will be the bleeding gashes you tear out of the true heart of the Rachni's strength. Not in and of itself more expensive, but you will need to spend a lot of cash jacking your army and marines way the hell up if you want to succeed here.
No. of Votes: 5

[X][DOCTRINE] Adopt Fleet Battle Doctrine. Your navy will not be the navy to destroy the Rachni's fleets. However, you will be called upon to fight the Rachni, time and again, whether or not you want to do so. If you are to survive and support the allies you soon hope to contact, you will need to be capable of holding your own in a stand-up fight.
No. of Votes: 1


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MARINES

[X][MARINES] Grant Tannuvael's request. Now that the fight is moving beyond your space, there is a need for an elite, navy-integrated ground force responsible for void-borne operations. Will require an eventual fleet-wide refit
No. of Votes: 47


[X][MARINES] Completely reform the marines, making them a massive, elite force capable of striking any target from space without army support. Will require immediate production of dedicated vessels and a navy-wide refit.
No. of Votes: 11

Total No. of Voters: 61

Currently the vote is swinging due many fleets, territory defense, and medium marines. If you all have a last-minute push for votes that you wish to execute, now is the time.
 
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