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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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We might want to push for a new High Council;
Artemis1992 said:
That might be the wrong direction.

The Artisans are the strongest faction and the most active one right now.
Allowing them to integrate the rest of the valley back in the civ might be easier than trying to bring them back in, if you know what I mean?
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Tis what I'm thinking, allow the Artisans to be the senior partners in the High Council, so long as they promise certain things that Fishes want, like no entangling alliances, and no lowlanders in the valley, or permanently settled in the new village. Spend 2 Culture to make the Artisans give these (small) concessions at the Council.

Duesal said:
Hopefully the wayward hunters die off instead of coming back to conquer the valley and take it back from us "heretics" or becoming pesky hostile nomads armed with all our best military organization.
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Great "Deer" is likely dead and we can negotiate with the rest.
 
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Mortenkam said:
@Azel Could you tell us how big the deficit was and if the other factions gave us any culture?

Also, if we try to reestablish the High Council, should we mention how much Culture we want to spend or is it a culture free action?

To the rest of you, which factions should we invite, if we tried to do it this turn. We would obviously have to invite the Fishes and the Artisans, but do we bother with the Hunters or the Serfs?
Something worth thinking about, is that if we only invited the Fishes and the Artisans, then the Bone Tenders will likely have to take the third position on the Council, since I doubt that we can convince one of the two faction to hold a majority of the power.
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1. Sorry, but I can't tell you how much Culture was spent. Not every action is automatically apparent to everyone, so by giving you the tally, you would know if someone did something sneaky or not.
Edit: Though you can combine the council formation with an action to sway a faction.

2. The High Council reformation costs not Culture, but it will start some haggling between factions where Culture might have to be spent. You should not pick this action without a good plan on how to proceed though, since a failure to resolve the crisis will have consequences.


Also, as a general tip, you still have 2 Hunter Pops that identify as the old Hunter faction, while the two new Pops are loyal to the Fishes.
 
Okay that went a lot better than I had thought. Instead of having Brushcrest sniping the village we got the Artisans securing it and starting to work on trade. Sure we'll need to spend some time to reintegrate them but overall i'd say things are going great.
 
Azel said:
You are still paying for Mastery of Nature since it's a degraded Tier 2 Ideal, not a proper Fad.

Though in essence, this means nothing, since it will likely just decay completely within the next 1-2 turns, unless you luck out and nobody spends Culture above their means.
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So, it is degrading, but is not technically a fad.

Still not mad about losing this one in particular.
 
Azel said:
1. Sorry, but I can't tell you how much Culture was spent. Not every action is automatically apparent to everyone, so by giving you the tally, you would know if someone did something sneaky or not.
Edit: Though you can combine the council formation with an action to sway a faction.

2. The High Council reformation costs not Culture, but it will start some haggling between factions where Culture might have to be spent. You should not pick this action without a good plan on how to proceed though, since a failure to resolve the crisis will have consequences.


Also, as a general tip, you still have 2 Hunter Pops that identify as the old Hunter faction, while the two new Pops are loyal to the Fishes.
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So if I understand it correctly, then if we start an attempt at reformation, then we get a sort of mini-turn, where we can use culture to push certain compromises or what kind of haggling are you talking about?

Also, as another thought about whom to grant the third seat, then besides the Bone Tenders, then I would suggest someone from the Serfs, since they are already a third party group, which the other two are trying to convince to agree with them and I would think that the Artisans and the Fishes might see that as a decent option.
 
Mortenkam said:
So if I understand it correctly, then if we start an attempt at reformation, then we get a sort of mini-turn, where we can use culture to push certain compromises or what kind of haggling are you talking about?

Also, as another thought about whom to grant the third seat, then besides the Bone Tenders, then I would suggest someone from the Serfs, since they are already a third party group, which the other two are trying to convince to agree with them and I would think that the Artisans and the Fishes might see that as a decent option.
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The Serfs are exactly as their name means, Serfs. The farmers and unskilled workers of the time period. Even now in our civ the factions view them as having as much influence as medieval nobility would view their serfs/peasants/other feudal low ranking member of society. The Serfs are less a social faction so much as they are a social class.
 
Mortenkam said:
@Azel Could you tell us how big the deficit was and if the other factions gave us any culture?
Also, if we try to reestablish the High Council, should we mention how much Culture we want to spend or is it a culture free action?
To the rest of you, which factions should we invite, if we tried to do it this turn. We would obviously have to invite the Fishes and the Artisans, but do we bother with the Hunters or the Serfs?
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Invite hunters, artisans, and fishers. Hunters want glory or exploration, exploration for trade is possible. Fishers want peace, stability, and to keep heathens far away, as well as avoid entangling alliances, everything is possible. Artisans want peace, stability, and trade, with a side-helping of diplomatic ties; we may want to change diplo ties to be just trade relationships and not alliances.

Ideally we might pressure Hunters to emphasize Exploration in return for a Council seat, thus getting a Fisher/Artisan/Hunter High Council, but the Artisans might be harder to convince, in worst case needing an Artisan/Artisan/Fisher Council for concessions on diplo ties.

Kirron 999 said:
The Serfs are exactly as their name means, Serfs. The farmers and unskilled workers of the time period. Even now in our civ the factions view them as having as much influence as medieval nobility would view their serfs/peasants/other feudal low ranking member of society. The Serfs are less a social faction so much as they are a social class.
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Exactly. Inviting them would anger every other faction.
 
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Kirron 999 said:
The Serfs are exactly as their name means, Serfs. The farmers and unskilled workers of the time period. Even now in our civ the factions view them as having as much influence as medieval nobility would view their serfs/peasants/other feudal low ranking member of society. The Serfs are less a social faction so much as they are a social class.
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Satar said:
Exactly. Inviting them would anger every other faction.
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Well, you might be right, but at the same time, both the Artisans and the Fishes are actively courting the Serfs for influence, so if they would not act too insulted, plus the faction has just as much influence as the Hunters have at the moment
Satar said:
Invite hunters, artisans, and fishers. Hunters want glory or exploration, exploration for trade is possible. Fishers want peace, stability, and to keep heathens far away, as well as avoid entangling alliances, everything is possible. Artisans want peace, stability, and trade, with a side-helping of diplomatic ties; we may want to change diplo ties to be just trade relationships and not alliances.

Ideally we might pressure Hunters to de-prioritize Glory in return for a Council seat, thus getting a Fisher/Artisan/Hunter High Council, but the Artisans might be harder to convince, in worst case needing an Artisan/Artisan/Fisher alliance.
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I would be fine with a return to the older distribution of seats, but the question is if they command enough respect and influence that the other factions feel like giving it to them. As I wrote before, they have the same influence as the Serfs and are only have as many.

I think that a Council of two Artisans and one Fisher would be even harder, since I doubt that the Fishes would accept the overlordship of the Artisans, which is why I think that we need a third faction to hold that seat.
 
Mortenkam said:
Well, you might be right, but at the same time, both the Artisans and the Fishes are actively courting the Serfs for influence, so if they would not act too insulted, plus the faction has just as much influence as the Hunters have at the moment

I would be fine with a return to the older distribution of seats, but the question is if they command enough respect and influence that the other factions feel like giving it to them. As I wrote before, they have the same influence as the Serfs and are only have as many.

I think that a Council of two Artisans and one Fisher would be even harder, since I doubt that the Fishes would accept the overlordship of the Artisans, which is why I think that we need a third faction to hold that seat.
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We do need a military. Just sayin'. Things are peaceful in the lowlands for now, but our military experience is steadily degrading. When the Bust hits, the lowlanders will get pretty desperate. I see clear benefits to rehabilitating the Hunters, not so much for the Serfs.

Also rehabilitating the hunters means maybe we can get a few pops back from those who went off with Great Deer. Might avoid them coming back next turn and feeling like they have to claim the Mandate by force. Imagine defending anything when 2 hunter pops inside Greenvalley turn their cloaks and let in the 4 besieging the settlement.
 
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Honestly it might be easier to aim to create a new faction than to try and resuscitate the Hunters. Right now they are sitting at just 2 pops with low influence and mood. I could imagine something new arising from increased Lowlander interactions.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
Honestly it might be easier to aim to create a new faction than to try and resuscitate the Hunters. Right now they are sitting at just 2 pops with low influence and mood. I could imagine something new arising from increased Lowlander interactions.
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Nah fam, there's four Hunter pops that might come back next turn :/

Edit: Also, it'd be nice to still have the option to raid or make war. Hopefully we can find easier targets elsewhere.
 
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Satar said:
We do need a military. Just sayin'. Things are peaceful in the lowlands for now, but our military experience is steadily degrading. When the Bust hits, the lowlanders will get pretty desperate. I see clear benefits to rehabilitating the Hunters, not so much for the Serfs.
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Yeah, that might be a fair point, but it is worth remembering that half of our military is at the moment the Fishes, so the independent Hunter factions does not necessary need to represented.

Walker Of Chaos said:
Honestly it might be easier to aim to create a new faction than to try and resuscitate the Hunters. Right now they are sitting at just 2 pops with low influence and mood. I could imagine something new arising from increased Lowlander interactions.
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I kind of agree with this thinking, at least in the sense that I feel the point is to find the most agreeable way to form the High Council, but I am kind of willing to wait to see how the factions turns out later.

We could of course try to convince the Hunters to join up with Bone Tenders as some form of redemption, but I am unsure if it would be worth it to try.
 
Mortenkam said:
Yeah, that might be a fair point, but it is worth remembering that half of our military is at the moment the Fishes, so the independent Hunter factions does not necessary need to represented.
I kind of agree with this thinking, at least in the sense that I feel the point is to find the most agreeable way to form the High Council, but I am kind of willing to wait to see how the factions turns out later.
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We're in danger of going FULLY PACIFIST if we do that. The jingoism was wrong, but being able to proactively set the tempo of things or raid is important. Maybe being more patient, picking better targets, but I don't want to surrender our capacity for offensive war.
 
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I'm considering some arrangement where the Fishes and Artisans get 1 seat each while the Bone Tenders take the last one for the time being until a more permanent solution can be found. Most important thing right now is restoring the mandate. Fear this might backfire though.
 



I feel like we should try to get somekind of unity trait after all this is over or something. Idk. I just hope the people making the plans have the right idea on what to do.
 
Satar said:
Perseverance Identity, man. For all we know Great Deer's kid is gonna arrive next turn with loads of loot, expecting a triumphant welcome.
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Well, if the Hunters return, then we will deal with it then. I will of course mention, even if you did not claim it that his kid would not really have a claim to a seat.
Satar said:
Edit: Also, it'd be nice to still have the option to raid or make war. Hopefully we can find easier targets elsewhere.
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Satar said:
We're in danger of going FULLY PACIFIST if we do that. The jingoism was wrong, but being able to proactively set the tempo of things or raid is important.
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Who knows what the factions will support at such a time, that we might be ready for start making war again, but I get your point.
Firstly, I will start out with countering that with, it will be nice to have less presure to go to war in bad situations.
Secondly, even though you are right that the Artisans and Fishes leans toward peace, they are not really pacifists, so I could still see them approve of a raid, if it is truly seen as easy or not in the way of their issues.
 
Ancient Scholar said:



I feel like we should try to get somekind of unity trait after all this is over or something. Idk. I just hope the people making the plans have the right idea on what to do.
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We have a unity trait. Its the mandate and while it does a lot to suppress internal dissent it has the downside of social breakdowns being pretty serious when they do happen which is how we got here.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
Some kind of church military could be pretty damn cool.
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That's the opposite of what we are working with.

The Bone Tenders are for peace and neutrality, them trying to have the biggest stick in Greenvalley is unlikely to be internally accepted, or well-liked by either of the other factions.

Unless things just happen to luck into that, for an unlikely example by the Artisans wanting the power to call for war in priest-hands as a compromise to re-allow some hunters into political power, it won't happen.
 
what about a fisher/artians/white clans council, we want to integrate them and giving them a seat will help with that.
 
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