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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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Azel said:
Despite his best effort though, the chieftains of the roaming clan groups kept their distance, not trusting the interest of the Valley People in their affairs the slightest bit. Some were willing to remain in contact by using the Antler Clans as a proxy, but nobody was interested in even meeting the High Council in person. These news were not received well in Greenvalley, as the clans should have felt honored to even have these offers made to them. It turned out though that the Water-Clan, who was one of the largest of the clans in the mountains, but their members split among many groups, felt different then the nominal leaders of the White Clans. They had seen the value of the gifts and offers made by the Speaker and had sent their own offering in return, so that the Valley People may know what other strange wonders could be traded for with the Water-Clan. Beside more mundane goods such as pelts and tools, they had send a small crate filled with baubles wrought from something they called sun-stone. And indeed, that stone shone a brilliant yellow and had a odd sheen to it as if the sun was shining from within. Stranger yet was that this stone would not break when struck, instead just changing it's shape. It was an arduous task to work the sun-stone like this, though no one could deny how pretty the results were. For the High-Council to know that something like this existed, let alone to know a source for it, had made it worth the time to speak to clans.
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By the way, found who had Gold. It was the Water Clans, trading partners of the White Clans.
 
Mein Gott we survived

Only lost 1 Production & Culture too.
Tis a miracle.
 
JustGazzer said:
We honestly didn't lose out much
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If the lowlanders have pottery... it's time to do a complete 180 and become traders and mercs extraordinaire.

We need need need pottery.

Build up our population and wait for famine to strike the lowlands.

Also it may be wise to play as Great Deer this turn so we can at least prevent him from doing something as insipid and rash as sacking Greenvalley or burning the Orchards.
 
Satar said:
If the lowlanders have pottery... it's time to do a complete 180 and become traders and mercs extraordinaire.

Build up our population and wait for famine to strike the lowlands.

Also it may be wise to play as Great Deer this turn so we can at least prevent him from doing something as insipid and rash as sacking Greenvalley or burning the Orchards.
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It would be metagaming too much, and it kinda goes away from Antlers' interests.
 
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Tomcost said:
It would be metagaming too much, and it kinda goes away from Antler's interests.
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Nah, Antlers wants to return home as a triumphant hero. He apes Wolf and Bear, remember? Can't be a great anything if you're most famous for killing your own people's.

Furthermore the hunters and the artisans make more sense in a coalition. Both want to engage with the outside world. The fishers don't. If Deer can be convinced that instead of being raiders we ought be mercs or at least pick a target that won't bring a whole coalition down on our heads...
 
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Satar said:
Nah, Antlers wants to return home as a triumphant hero. He apes Wolf and Bear, remember? Can't be a great anything if you're most famous for killing your own people's.

Furthermore the hunters and the artisans make more sense in a coalition. Both want to engage with the outside world. The fishers don't. If Deer can be convinced that instead of being raiders we ought be mercs
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Now this makes more sense... if he wasn't an idiot. Plus, he is already exiled, right?
 
Satar said:
If the lowlanders have pottery... it's time to do a complete 180 and become traders and mercs extraordinaire.

We need need need pottery.

Build up our population and wait for famine to strike the lowlands.

Also it may be wise to play as Great Deer this turn so we can at least prevent him from doing something as insipid and rash as sacking Greenvalley or burning the Orchards.
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Since you know this from interrogated traders:
It's the Ox People to the east, beyond the mountains, who have pottery. The Goat People buy stuff from them, which occasionally comes in pots, and sell it to Brushcrest / Makar.
 
It is worth noting that unless we pick "Great Deer" we will probably see our civ have a major pacifist bend. After all the military turned traitor and almost doomed our civilization and we are down to a single hunter pop. So military conquest is probably not going to happen anytime soon. going for cultural/economic supremacy may be best if we want hegemony. On that note,
[X] [Faction] Artisans
 
Eldon said:
It is worth noting that unless we pick "Great Deer" we will probably see our civ have a major pacifist bend.
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Unlikely. Our history and Identity tells us that we're the rightful rulers of this world, and that if others don't obey, we should make them. By force.

That's unquestioned. What might change is the preeminent position of the hunters as the best of Greenvalley, e.g., our Jingoism Quotient.

In Vicky 2 terms we might go from Jingoism > Pro Military.
 
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I'd say that if we wanted to move away from the jingoism this is probably the best chance we've had yet. It isn't a sure thing however. While several of our factions now value peace we've seen that values can change and if we interact more with the local system we'll almost inevitably see disputes arise that can be used to offset pacifism if we so desire.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
I'd say that if we wanted to move away from the jingoism this is probably the best chance we've had yet. It isn't a sure thing however. While several of our factions now value peace we've seen that values can change and if we interact more with the local system we'll almost inevitably see disputes arise that can be used to offset pacifism if we so desire.
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im more in favour of being mercenary's to the highest bidder would make a fun Switzerland playstyle
 
Bottom line is that we're the only polity that can create a Stone Age empire, so we'll trade, get pottery, and only target those polities that don't spike infamy over 25. I at least refuse to let our dreams of Hegemony die here.
 
thefoolswriter said:
im more in favour of being mercenary's to the highest bidder would make a fun Switzerland playstyle
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I also favor and plan to push for the proselytizing mercs and traders build. Just wanted to put that out there to point out that pacifism is not inevitable.

On that subject if we are going for trade we'll need to make settling the Lakeford site an absolute priority once the crisis is fixed even if we don't have pottery. Not only is it a super useful strategic site but with several trading routes passing through it I expect Brushcrest to try and resettle it. Besides it's a good place for gathering info and doing diplo, our cozy little valley is kinda isolated.
 
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Satar said:
Bottom line is that we're the only polity that can create a Stone Age empire, so we'll trade, get pottery, and only target those polities that don't spike infamy over 25. I at least refuse to let our dreams of Hegemony die here.
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We would have beat the coalition tho, if this is the best they got anyways. We just didn't have an army.
 
Maybe in the future we should do less raiding and more conquering? Or at least claim and establish another settlement or two. The fort by the rivers we destroyed would make a good site.
 
Ghostdevil said:
We would have beat the coalition tho, if this is the best they got anyways. We just didn't have an army.
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Absolutely. In a slugfest between the whole of our armies and their army, I'm confident that our elite commanders, elite troops, and Identity/Ideal values would've seen us come out on top. But it's just that everything else went to pot; the political situation imploded; the plan was misworded, Willow went off larping; we weren't able to assemble the men who would fight in that battle. But that's like 90% of generalship, isn't it? Just getting the men there to fight in that one predetermined place at that predetermined time in a pre-determined condition.

If this were an AAR, as a post-mortem I would say that we lost the war on the homefront and were forced to sign an armistice; thankfully, nothing so odious as the Treaty of Versaille. But I'd compare us to the Weimar Republic at this point; floundering in factions and political parties, no legitimacy left. Post WWI Germany to its fullest.
 
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Satar said:
Absolutely. In a slugfest between the whole of our armies and their army, I'm confident that our elite commanders, elite troops, and Identity/Ideal values would've seen us come out on top. But it's just that everything else went to pot; the political situation imploded; the plan was misworded, Willow went off larping; we weren't able to assemble the men who would fight in that battle. But that's like 90% of generalship, isn't it? Just getting the men there to fight in that one predetermined place at that predetermined time in a pre-determined condition.

If this were an AAR, as a post-mortem I would say that we lost the war on the homefront and were forced to sign an armistice; thankfully, nothing so odious as the Treaty of Versaille. But I'd compare us to the Weimar Republic at this point; floundering in factions and political parties, no legitimacy left. Post WWI Germany to its fullest.
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not until we have multiple uprisings then it will we post ww1 Germany
 
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I mean, isn't the WoG reason we don't have any armed uprisings because nobody has the organization or weaponry to do so, apart from the Hunters who have fucked off to the mountains. Also, if they don't come back, that is almost a whole production point we'll have free for the turn that was previously held by upkeep costs.
 
Honestly i'd say the important lesson to learn for conquest here is that we can't let ourselves be the scary big bad threat no one really knows about. It's a lot easier to form a coalition against the northern barbarians out to destory all you hold holy than it is to form one against that one jerkish neighbour who keeps complaining about others accidentally wandering onto his lawn.
 
As other people has mentioned, what we need for the next time we start thinking about raiding or conquest is information.

Of course I also think that we should try to take internal factions a lot more serious, that we have done so far.
 
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