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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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sunrise said:
Even if we cant move the food back home(and the need for that might cause someone to work on solving that) a village there will provide more information about the lowlands and serve as a stopping place for our traders(i plan to start trading in the future with the lowlanders(they might want silver).
A single group of hunters should be able to run back home in case of a attack.
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SpeckofStardust said:
At this rate simply moving pops out of our near carrying capacity of our capital. Is what we need to do.
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We've only hit carrying capacity with our hunters or gatherers; we've still got room for herders, farmers, etc.

Basically the way this works is that every hunter (and other food-producing pop) increases our margins of excess food production, which pays for the specialization of our economy. Every hunter we move out decreases our overall capacity for specialization. If it's silver mines you want, you need at least one mining pop + one artisan pop, which is only going to happen if we expand Orchards by three or four pops worth, not hive off sections of our food producing capacity.
 
[X] Plan Riding A Thin Line
-[X] Reassign some of the workers to different tasks.
--[X] Gatherer to Orchard farmer
-[X] Increase resource gathering slots.
--[X] More orchards (Cost: 1 Production)
-[X] Try to influence a faction.
--[X] Serfs and Fishies
--[X] Staying in the valley and doing nothing is insulting to the ancestors. By stagnating, no recognition can be achieved in the eyes of anyone, much less the ancestors, and peace is something easily lost without strong arms. This stands true for all peoples, as our ancestors have proven to others time and time again on the field of battle and beyond.
--[X] 0.7 Culture for serfs, 0.3 for fishies
-[X] Support the White Clans in establishing their first village. (Gives +1 Production to the White Clans)
 
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Satar said:
We've only hit carrying capacity with our hunters or gatherers; we've still got room for herders, farmers, etc.

Basically the way this works is that every hunter (and other food-producing pop) increases our margins of excess food production, which pays for the specialization of our economy. Every hunter we move out decreases our overall capacity for specialization. If it's silver mines you want, you need at least one mining pop + one artisan pop, which is only going to happen if we expand Orchards by three or four pops worth, not hive off sections of our food producing capacity.
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I give a dam about having access to greater food capacity. Silver is only useful with trade ties, which we don't really have do to have blood feud status with the trade power of the area..
again.
 
looseanon said:
What about this?

[] Plan Riding A Thin Line
-[X] Reassign some of the workers to different tasks.
--[X] Gatherer to Orchard farmer
-[X] Increase resource gathering slots.
--[X] More orchards (Cost: 1 Production)
-[X] Try to influence a faction.
--[X] Serfs and Fishies
--[X] Staying in the valley and doing nothing is insulting to the ancestors. By stagnating, no recognition can be achieved in the eyes of anyone, much less the ancestors, and peace is something easily lost without strong arms. This stands true for all peoples, as our ancestors have proven to others time and time again on the field of battle and beyond.
--[X] 0.7 Culture for serfs, 0.3 for fishies
-[X] Support the White Clans in establishing their first village. (Gives +1 Production to the White Clans)
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Gatherer into orchard farmer is not reassign task, that's train into another profession which costs production

As a side note, I remember that us original members of the quest had a fairly large debate about expanding a second settlement less than five turns ago which ended up with us agreeing that in order to settle a new location, the mechanics no matter how we finagled it would result in Greenvalley starving and loosing several pops, putting us way behind the pop curve of the local polities. We're already coasting behind as is with little chance of a natural population bust to show for it, meaning our pop stays unlike the lowlanders. Artificially splitting to settle new land mechanically resulted in starvation somewhere until we got pottery, because the split food supplies meant one party would either starve or run out of production and then starve. This problem stays until we get pottery containers, at which point food production becomes an empire resource rather than a local resource mechanically.
 
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I mean I'm fairly certain that it's retraining the profession which costs production, but reading through the mechanics I might be wrong. I think I might be remembering the earlier mechanics where retraining nullified that pop's production for a turn and cost additional resources, under that system early farmers were also regarded as one of the more 'skilled' classes as far as retraining, if not culture, went.

Edit- If swapping the gather to a farmer doesn't cost anything then yeah your plan should be good.
 
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I'm definitely in favor of expanding food production, we're still pretty much on the knife's edge here. It seems orchards are the most preferred food type, which makes sense as they are tied at the highest percent bonus alongside hunting. I would also like to support helping out the White clans' village efforts, and then sending them a diplomat to either pull them further into our sphere of influence, or at least establish some stronger trade ties. As for expansion, I'd like to wait until we have a few more food-producing pops to be able to support both settlements. As is, we can barely support Greenvalley.
 
Kirron 999 said:
I mean I'm fairly certain that it's retraining the profession which costs production, but reading through the mechanics I might be wrong. I think I might be remembering the earlier mechanics where retraining nullified that pop's production for a turn and cost additional resources, under that system early farmers were also regarded as one of the more 'skilled' classes as far as retraining, if not culture, went.

Edit- If swapping the gather to a farmer doesn't cost anything then yeah your plan should be good.
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Ok cool, thanks for the explanation, There is nothing specifying that workers cost production to turn into different workers so ill add it back in.

GildedSergeant said:
I'm definitely in favor of expanding food production, we're still pretty much on the knife's edge here. It seems orchards are the most preferred food type, which makes sense as they are tied at the highest percent bonus alongside hunting. I would also like to support helping out the White clans' village efforts, and then sending them a diplomat to either pull them further into our sphere of influence, or at least establish some stronger trade ties. As for expansion, I'd like to wait until we have a few more food-producing pops to be able to support both settlements. As is, we can barely support Greenvalley.
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Ill add a diplomacy action to my plan organizing marriages between people of import. Trade is something we are not completely equiped for while simultaneously helping them.

Edit: nevermind, diplomacy takes up the same slot as helping them.
 
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Hmmm, I am unsure, needless to say is we need to expand the food production, so i'd say we get the extra +1 from the high council and double down on some food,
The village that the clans are trying to make will inevitably enter our sphere regardless and its not like they will complete it all in one turn, at least not the temple which we can help with. First food THEN cultural assimilation.


[X] Plan Two
-[X] Increase resource gathering slots.
--[X] More orchards (Cost: 1 Production)
-[X] Reassign some of the workers to different tasks.
--[X] 1 Worker to Fishing
-[X] Gain +1 Production to spend this turn.


Idk what to spend culture on :p
 
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Rationale: it makes no difference whether or not we expand the Orchard fields this turn if we don't have the pops necessary to farm them. So we may as well spend the one extra production in retraining the gatherers to orchard farmers; hopefully hedging against the changing climate. But I think that it's important to exert our influence early with the settling clansmen, so that we might firmly pull them into our orbit. I want to try and offer something like a partial integration into our polity for now, so as to guarantee full integration later.

[X] Plan Don't Starve
-[X] Reassign some of the workers to different tasks.
--[X] Gatherer to Orchard farmer
-[X] Increase resource gathering slots.
--[X] More orchards (Cost: 1 Production)
-[X] Support the White Clans in establishing their first village. (Gives +1 Production to the White Clans)
--[X] See if we can't convince the settling clansmen to, not exactly become part of the Valley People, but structure themselves like one of our villages would, with low councils, etc, and, in return for acknowledging the cosmic preeminence of the High Council, blessed by the Ancestors, gain the right to send mediums to High Council meetings, and in turn accept a visiting councilor from the Valley People who might act as ambassador/advisor to their own low council. Basically something like the relationship we slowly developed with the Antler Clans, but no mutual defense pact or tributary stuff just yet.
-[X] (Optional) Change the focus of the Pilgrim Village.
--[X] Bring Valley People Culture to the White Clans. (+1 Valley People Culture in the White Clans)
---[X] Specifically to pops of the most influential clans or whatnot of the settling clansmen.

@Azel can you confirm if retraining a pop from gatherer to farmer costs 1 Production? Also, do farmers cost upkeep anymore?
 
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Another reason I'm interested in throwing our weight around when it comes to the settling clansmen is the flexibility it might give us in times of famine. We can't transport food, but we sure as hell can reshuffle pops. If we can make the clansmen village virtually a puppet state, then in hard times Azel might let us relocate pops from our village to theirs. And of course any goods they produce in the sattelite village, unlike food, can be transported back to Greenvalley. Best of all, this satellite village, unlike a settlement we might found ourselves, already has its own food producing and defensive pops and is located in a friendlier hinterlands. Those of you who want a second settlement shouldn't sleep on this!
 
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[X] Plan Don't Starve

Looks like this has pretty much everything I want, takes care of food worries and secures ties with the new village. I wonder if, similar to how we get White Clans mercs when we go to war, if we can get an agreement from them to come to Greenvalley's defense when we're threatened. If so, that would make our defensive position even stronger than it already is.
 
Satar said:
can you confirm if retraining a pop from gatherer to farmer costs 1 Production? Also, do farmers cost upkeep anymore?
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The front page says that workers can be freely retrained, unlike other pop types, so I think you're fine moving them from gatherer to farmer. And that as of now, only hunter pops and priest pops have an upkeep cost at 0.2 per pop.

So I think you have another production available to use on something, which might as well be orchards, as we're going to be moving more people to them eventually, and they're tied with hunters as our best food producers, but have the advantage of not having an upkeep cost. We need the hunters around as they have martial uses, but our other food producers are fair game to transfer over. We're on the knife edge at the moment, and that extra 10% might save us from starvation if we get a bad food roll.

You're also not using the culture excess we have. That's not really an issue, as unused culture gives a chance at random events, including tech advances, but it might be better used by throwing it at the new White Clans village this turn. Tie it into the support from the council action if we're allowed, as the added culture will likely help with your write-in.
 
Meep said:
The front page says that workers can be freely retrained, unlike other pop types, so I think you're fine moving them from gatherer to farmer. And that as of now, only hunter pops and priest pops have an upkeep cost at 0.2 per pop.

So I think you have another production available to use on something, which might as well be orchards, as we're going to be moving more people to them eventually, and they're tied with hunters as our best food producers, but have the advantage of not having an upkeep cost. We need the hunters around as they have martial uses, but our other food producers are fair game to transfer over. We're on the knife edge at the moment, and that extra 10% might save us from starvation if we get a bad food roll.

You're also not using the culture excess we have. That's not really an issue, as unused culture gives a chance at random events, including tech advances, but it might be better used by throwing it at the new White Clans village this turn. Tie it into the support from the council action if we're allowed, as the added culture will likely help with your write-in.
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Used to be that farmers were absolute divas when it came to tool use, and that retraining anything cost hella tools, so the no-upkeep no-cost switching of the new system is still a little odd to me. I'm like that dog that very very hesitantly puts a paw on a glass floor lol. I'll figure out something we can do with the extra Production.

But the culture thing I'm sure about; you can look at the ledger. We have net +1 Culture inclusive of the pilgrim village, so no extra Culture to throw around unfortunately.
 
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I'm a little curious if menhirs have Production upkeep costs. It's almost a meme at this point how they keep showing up and never get picked. You gotta imagine them going all, notice me senpai~~~. I'm like 90% sure they must be gating some tech or advancement but literally standing rocks, like what can you learn from those?
 
Satar said:
I'm a little curious if menhirs have Production upkeep costs. It's almost a meme at this point how they keep showing up and never get picked. You gotta imagine them going all, notice me senpai~~~. I'm like 90% sure they must be gating some tech or advancement but literally standing rocks, like what can you learn from those?
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It definitely a gate to a tech and considering how long its been there, it must be building up like the temple did, so it might turn into a megaproject.
 
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