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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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Raichu1972 said:
> -50 Malus to hunting and fishing

Oof.

We should try to go all in on Hunting and Fishing, although it seems as though our Hunters used up all of their luck finding this location for us. :V

I still don't think killing the bear will accomplish much, since it doesn't really have much more food than an elk or a couple of boars while also being far more dangerous to hunt.

It will likely greatly increase tribe cohesion, but that won't matter much if we all starve to death

Can't really even be mad, since I doubt @Azel expected us to get consistently shitty dice rolls to the point that we die before we get the chance to transition into the longer "civ style" turns. :p
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The main purpose of these short turns for me was to get you settled in an flesh out your starting village and life-style, with setting things up for winter as the framing device and first challenge. The system was meant to encourage investing extra effort into building up a reliable food source, but mostly using spoilage as a means to keep your stocks in check. As it stands, I never had a chance to roll spoilage, since you never managed to gain more then a months worth of supplies in the first place.

Boy, did I not expect this scramble. :V
 
Azel said:
The main purpose of these short turns for me was to get you settled in an flesh out your starting village and life-style, with setting things up for winter as the framing device and first challenge. The system was meant to encourage investing extra effort into building up a reliable food source, but mostly using spoilage as a means to keep your stocks in check. As it stands, I never had a chance to roll spoilage, since you never managed to gain more then a months worth of supplies in the first place.

Boy, did I not expect this scramble. :V
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Thats because we've never had a real good roll in the whole quest for food or exploring.
 
Ghostdevil said:
Thats because we've never had a real good roll in the whole quest for food or exploring.
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You did roll a crit for the fishing action, giving you full income for that turn. Originally, you would have gotten only half the regular food for it, since you needed most of the time to actually develop and teach the technique.
 
Azel said:
The main purpose of these short turns for me was to get you settled in an flesh out your starting village and life-style, with setting things up for winter as the framing device and first challenge. The system was meant to encourage investing extra effort into building up a reliable food source, but mostly using spoilage as a means to keep your stocks in check. As it stands, I never had a chance to roll spoilage, since you never managed to gain more then a months worth of supplies in the first place.

Boy, did I not expect this scramble. :V
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Yeah, having most of your adult male (non elder) population obliterated in the second turn would really push you back. :V

We tried to focus on gathering as a stopgap until we could get more reserves, and didn't get preserves until we starting needing better shelter for the winter, and once we finally get our shelter build we get a sudden snowstorm that makes it far harder to actually get food.

If nothing else, the tribe will be interesting if they can survive until Spring, since I imagine most of the Elders will die from starvation or he cold and a good chunk of the Hunters will die from fighting the bear, leaving the tribe as mostly Matrons and children.
 
Azel said:
You did roll a crit for the fishing action, giving you full income for that turn. Originally, you would have gotten only half the regular food for it, since you needed most of the time to actually develop and teach the technique.
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1 crit doesn't really mean anything in least its a major food bonus. :p

Ohwell it was a good quest while it lasted, actually lasted shorter than the other civ quest where the players and QM fucked up in communication.
 
Ghostdevil said:
1 crit doesn't really mean anything in least its a major food bonus. :p

Ohwell it was a good quest while it lasted, actually lasted shorter than the other civ quest where the players and QM fucked up in communication.
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Which quest would that be, if I may ask?

Also, you guys shouldn't be so doom and gloom. You are not dead yet. :V
 
Ghostdevil said:
Don't remember the name, but we fucked up both the Players and QM in communicating what the Tribe would allow and we voted for an option that our tribe hated despite the other tribe we were fighting being a splinter group of ours.
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I remember that. Civ quests are usually not fun to play in the initial stages because it's too easy for a tribe to get wiped out before they have proper agriculture.

On the plus side, if we can survive this winter then we should be okay. Starvation most likely can't kill the entire tribe because the more people die, the more corpses are available for cannibalism. It might also help if, as many did in older times, the elders realize the food situation is bad and voluntarily leave and die in the cold so that the food stores stretch out a little longer. Of course, the tribe will probably split in the spring after a loss of faith in the leadership, leaving it weakened.
 
Azel said:
Which quest would that be, if I may ask?

Also, you guys shouldn't be so doom and gloom. You are not dead yet. :V
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Ghostdevil said:
Don't remember the name, but we fucked up both the Players and QM in communicating what the Tribe would allow and we voted for an option that our tribe hated despite the other tribe we were fighting being a splinter group of ours.
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It was From the Cradle of the Neolithic by @Usotsuki Megami I believe...

Yeah... That quest was full of communication issues... I think one of the bigger ones is it turns out that the QM said they'd been, and still were running at time of the bad end, a second game as a test-bed for the SV Quest. It's just, the second game was being run on... Discord I think? Or something... But yeah, it was a spot that was full of people who'd actually been taught about ancient civilisations and the Neolithic and all that... So I think reason that all those communication errors started was they came in unconsciously expecting SVers to actually know what needed to be done, and how risky some things might be back then in comparison to how they are these days. And once those problems appeared and caused issues in the turns, there was a noticeable element of the questors that... were highly disagreeable with each other. Which meant that the QM didn't want to get involved because then they'd start arguing and... etc, etc...

Like, one of the biggest communication problems was that the QM knew that back in the Neolithic, farming, at least in the Scandinavian climate we'd picked, was a high risk, average reward action until you've gotten some progress in getting better at farming. Because one bad year, and the entire crop is destroyed... and bad years weren't particularly rare... Which is why hunting was the main source of food.

Whereas the questors... Well, farming is gives massive amounts of food reliably, doesn't it? Hunting is more risky... and if you aren't careful, you can overhunt the area, right? So we basically just doubled down on farming as much as possible, and ignored hunting because it was too dangerous when we really needed a lot more food reliably, which is why we were trying to get lots of farming done, you know?

Yeah... We basically were never told that farming actually wasn't as great as we thought, and that if we just swapped over to hunting, our food problems would most likely be a lot less, which meant we could afford to potentially 'waste' an action each year trying to set up reliable farming...

And then there was the miscommunications in what the tribes culture was like compared to what we thought it was which resulted in the Bad End...

I mean, I loved the quest and would be trilled if a new version of it appeared... But it's also probably the example of 'These are the BIG problems which will kill a Civ Quest if you don't keep them in mind, whether you are the QM or a Questor'...
 
Pyro Hawk said:
I mean, I loved the quest and would be trilled if a new version of it appeared... But it's also probably the example of 'These are the BIG problems which will kill a Civ Quest if you don't keep them in mind, whether you are the QM or a Questor'...
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The Food thing could have been solved, the big thing that killed us is the culture. We could have changed tracks but we were offered a choice that would have benefitted us if we could have actually done it, but it was a trap.
 
[X] Plan Actual Final Gambit

If only praying to the RNGods was an option that would give us bonuses to our rolls.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
It was From the Cradle of the Neolithic by @Usotsuki Megami I believe...

Yeah... That quest was full of communication issues... I think one of the bigger ones is it turns out that the QM said they'd been, and still were running at time of the bad end, a second game as a test-bed for the SV Quest. It's just, the second game was being run on... Discord I think? Or something... But yeah, it was a spot that was full of people who'd actually been taught about ancient civilisations and the Neolithic and all that... So I think reason that all those communication errors started was they came in unconsciously expecting SVers to actually know what needed to be done, and how risky some things might be back then in comparison to how they are these days. And once those problems appeared and caused issues in the turns, there was a noticeable element of the questors that... were highly disagreeable with each other. Which meant that the QM didn't want to get involved because then they'd start arguing and... etc, etc...

Like, one of the biggest communication problems was that the QM knew that back in the Neolithic, farming, at least in the Scandinavian climate we'd picked, was a high risk, average reward action until you've gotten some progress in getting better at farming. Because one bad year, and the entire crop is destroyed... and bad years weren't particularly rare... Which is why hunting was the main source of food.

Whereas the questors... Well, farming is gives massive amounts of food reliably, doesn't it? Hunting is more risky... and if you aren't careful, you can overhunt the area, right? So we basically just doubled down on farming as much as possible, and ignored hunting because it was too dangerous when we really needed a lot more food reliably, which is why we were trying to get lots of farming done, you know?

Yeah... We basically were never told that farming actually wasn't as great as we thought, and that if we just swapped over to hunting, our food problems would most likely be a lot less, which meant we could afford to potentially 'waste' an action each year trying to set up reliable farming...

And then there was the miscommunications in what the tribes culture was like compared to what we thought it was which resulted in the Bad End...

I mean, I loved the quest and would be trilled if a new version of it appeared... But it's also probably the example of 'These are the BIG problems which will kill a Civ Quest if you don't keep them in mind, whether you are the QM or a Questor'...
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Mmm, I was of the belief that useless waffling and overreaching killed the quest. Like, "Oh we should split between hunting and farming. Let's have two villages planned out by the first turn with no assurances. Let's try to navigate the entertaining system of having two permanent settlements before we've even determined how leadership will work!"

IIRC, the QM there said that if you'd picked any one thing when it came to food production you wouldn't have blown up so spectacularly.
 
Azel said:
Which quest would that be, if I may ask?

Also, you guys shouldn't be so doom and gloom. You are not dead yet. :V
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Now that we have homes we're unlikely to be extincted. Splintered very likely, but starvation is often a self-solving problem...relative size of food stores grow by deaths after all.
Pyro Hawk said:
It was From the Cradle of the Neolithic by @Usotsuki Megami I believe...

Yeah... That quest was full of communication issues... I think one of the bigger ones is it turns out that the QM said they'd been, and still were running at time of the bad end, a second game as a test-bed for the SV Quest. It's just, the second game was being run on... Discord I think? Or something... But yeah, it was a spot that was full of people who'd actually been taught about ancient civilisations and the Neolithic and all that... So I think reason that all those communication errors started was they came in unconsciously expecting SVers to actually know what needed to be done, and how risky some things might be back then in comparison to how they are these days. And once those problems appeared and caused issues in the turns, there was a noticeable element of the questors that... were highly disagreeable with each other. Which meant that the QM didn't want to get involved because then they'd start arguing and... etc, etc...

Like, one of the biggest communication problems was that the QM knew that back in the Neolithic, farming, at least in the Scandinavian climate we'd picked, was a high risk, average reward action until you've gotten some progress in getting better at farming. Because one bad year, and the entire crop is destroyed... and bad years weren't particularly rare... Which is why hunting was the main source of food.

Whereas the questors... Well, farming is gives massive amounts of food reliably, doesn't it? Hunting is more risky... and if you aren't careful, you can overhunt the area, right? So we basically just doubled down on farming as much as possible, and ignored hunting because it was too dangerous when we really needed a lot more food reliably, which is why we were trying to get lots of farming done, you know?

Yeah... We basically were never told that farming actually wasn't as great as we thought, and that if we just swapped over to hunting, our food problems would most likely be a lot less, which meant we could afford to potentially 'waste' an action each year trying to set up reliable farming...

And then there was the miscommunications in what the tribes culture was like compared to what we thought it was which resulted in the Bad End...

I mean, I loved the quest and would be trilled if a new version of it appeared... But it's also probably the example of 'These are the BIG problems which will kill a Civ Quest if you don't keep them in mind, whether you are the QM or a Questor'...
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Naw, a big part of it was that a lot of the early hype was being badass raiding and slaving scandinavians clashing with the high literacy build(which really would have preferred an Indus Valley or Tropical start, where they could immediately use starting bonuses to harden up).

People wanted different things, but in a rarity, the margins were slim enough that everyone held hope of overturning the other guy's win and building their ideal civilization. Which amounted to spates of expensive WhyNotBoth and repeatedly trying to reverse course on each other to the effect of a lot of spending and no gains.

The arguments were just caustic enough to make sure nobody ragequit so the remainder could steer it their way.
 
[X] Duesal

So... if we're down to twenty kids and a couple of hunters after the winter, would that mean we could costumize the shit out of our civ in the neolithic?

... just trying to look at the bright side here.
 
bigbow said:
[X] Duesal

So... if we're down to twenty kids and a couple of hunters after the winter, would that mean we could costumize the shit out of our civ in the neolithic?

... just trying to look at the bright side here.
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I kind of feel like this is a run of Dwarf Fortress and we're scrambling to go out in a blaze of glory.
 
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