So you're admitting Blacks, Arabs, Asians and others are Chaos Worshipers? And why that's wrong? Progress!
What do you mean?
Hot take: You're the one that said so. Nobody else did, and that's all on you.
Sympathy for the heretic
- Thread starter BiopunkOtrera
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You people haven't took any information about the universe of WH40K to properly make any criticism.
Hell, wanting to say that Slannesh could be a metaphor for same sex couples...when there's same sex couples in canon WH40K and they serve the Imperium.
Hell, wanting to say that Slannesh could be a metaphor for same sex couples...when there's same sex couples in canon WH40K and they serve the Imperium.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Tone at the top - Wikipedia
The "tone at the top" of the Imperium is shite. It is horrible and oppressive, a mix of the worst parts of theocracy and fascism. Which means that will filter down and the vast majority of worlds will be horrible oppressive hellholes that mix the worst parts of theocracy and fascism. While there will be outliers in either direction, 99% of all worlds in the imperium will be organized as theo-fascist hellpits, regardless of if it's an agri-world or a hiveworld.
Fascism tends to be pretty big on oppressing minorities.
Vindictus
XENO
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lol this is literally the most dishonest attempt at debate I've seen on this forum for years.
Well done.
Quantumsheep
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I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the best way to convince fence-sitters on the whole "does 40K promote problematic ideologies and/or fascism" debate is to have them listen to the arguments of the 'No' side for just, like, five minutes. Jesus christ. Do you even hear yourself?
The Bird
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Vins pointing out that Warhammer codes Chaos in the same way fascism codes minorities and "the other", and is saying that hey, maybe 40K should stop doing that. As such, this response is super duper nonsense.
No its not. Like, to be a cosmic horror story something has to be horror, and you can't really be horror when yer fully capable of shooting the horrible gribbly threatening humanity to death. Like, theres a reason most monsters in the cthulhu mythos don't get dealt with by shooting them to death.
(Further, humanity lacks the whole "irrelevance" thing thats kinda key to the genre: you can't be the biggest empire in the setting and simultaneously be irrelevant.)
Warhammer having a handful of token non-Slaneeshi LGBT characters doesn't change the fact that overall Slaneesh and their followers are coded to represent the fascists view of LGBT characters.
Multiple Rule Violations: 2, 3, 4 See Staff post
Uh, yeah no. Aside from meeting quotas and shit, most worlds in the IoM are pretty peaceful and uneventful with the people generally being content. Now you won't hear this in the lore as it goes against 40k's theme, but with a bit of *gasp* reading between the lines and doing some analysis, you can totally see these worlds existing!
You're the one who said it. Owe up to it.
Oh, playing victim are we? Let's do this then! Well fuck you white person! You pieces of shit ruined and oppressed South East Asia for 300 years and yet you keep coddling and propping up Blacks and Arabs as your favorite victims even though they've suffered far less than we had when you raped and stole from our lands during the colonial era!
But to get back on topic, I'm saying that being a gay or a trans person in 40k and not keeping it to yourself and controlling it is a very, very slippery slope that always leads to Slaanesh going into your head and raping you.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
So it isn't the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.
Got it.
prometheus110
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Oh, go goosestep the fuck outta here.
Sure thing comrade! Oh! I heard the breadlines this day are shorter than usual!
Vindictus
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If you understood what I actually said, you'd understand why your attempted 'gotcha' here is literally the dumbest shit ever.
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I don't know guys I think that Warhammer 40K's attitude toward minorities and marginalized groups is perfectly fine and this is very well exhibited by the individuals that often make up its fanbase. FBH was completely wrong to make this thread and it should be deleted tbh.
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From the wiki, you people haven't done research.
The Imperium about trans people, gays and etc.
"We do not care, fuck as much people as you want, but become obsessed and be corrupted by Slannesh and we will need to you, because we can't let people that decides to open new holes in people to fuck to go off causing mayhem."
No, you are wrong, the Imperium may try their best, they can't win against Chaos, no one less Tyranids can, Chaos already won, ages ago, even before the Emperor himself.
Also you are speaking about using firepower to defeat Chaos, the Emperor used his own genes to make the Primarchs and the Space Marines...it is kept very clear they...are not exactly human anymore, why? Because puny weak humans can't against Chaos.
And even that is not sufficient, the Imperial Guardsmen is nothing beyond Cannon Fodder. That is what common humans are in WH.
No, you are wrong, for you LGBT is to rape people? Enslave? To plunder and kill because it is fun? Again, Slannesh was never about LGBT.
Point that you have a lot of same sex couples in the Imperium.
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prometheus110
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People: "Warhammer 40k is pretty fascist."
An actual fascist, I guess: "Umm, well actually it's not because arglebarglebargle and that's why we should crush the LGBTQ and communists."
An actual fascist, I guess: "Umm, well actually it's not because arglebarglebargle and that's why we should crush the LGBTQ and communists."
Again chuckles, you're the one who equates Baby-raping Chaos to actual oppressed minorities. They profile those minorities in 40k cause of their vulnerability to Chaotic corruption, not just because and racism. If they allow them concessions, then that will only cause Chaos to spread deeper into society and the fact that such things happened before is enough vindication for them to not allow them in.
Ok comrade! Where did I actually say Real life LGBTQ people need to die? Or have compared them and actual minorities to actual baby-rapists?
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...that is pitiful.
That is really your argument? Really?
I pity you, you must make yourself and others as victims to defend your arguments.
That is sad.
prometheus110
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Like, literally 7 posts above mine.
The Bird
tEM IS GUD...RITER!
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Again, yer missing Vins point entirely.
Which is grossly offensive and unnecessary and 40K could easily be rewritten to make that not the case.
Its still not cosmic horror because, again, people aren't irrelevant and most gribblies in setting you can kill with sufficient firepower.
Again, Slaneesh has been coded from day 1 to represent what fascists think of when they think of LGBT. Actual LGBT people don't do any of those things, but fascists absolutely think they do.
Vindictus
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Me, an ignoramus: It's bad that 40k has been written such that being part of a minority means you're at risk of becoming baby-eating evil monsters
You, an intellectual: Wow are you accusing minorities of being evil??? Also it's totally okay for WH40k to malign real world minorities, because they're at risk of becoming baby eating evil monsters
I never did. I just called you and you commie friends out for equating Fictional representations of LGBTQ people to chaos worshipers. I myself would never hate on those people in real life and actually don't mind them at all! But you You juuuusut had to shove them into 40k and then cry foul when Chaos would find them easily corruptible.
Stop: Stop
Stop: I was going to do something witty, but then I read the thread
Ellf
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i was going to do something witty, but then i read the thread
First off, there's good ways and bad ways to go about arguing your points. Deciding to go ahead and insult everyone you're arguing with just because they disagree with you is a very bad way.
@João Paulo, in this post here, you have insulted those you disagree with, called them disgusting. For daring to believe something more is there than what you thought. Combine that with the way you've repeatedly hammered in this point and moved goalposts, I'm going to give you an infraction for violating Rules 3 and 4. You did derail the thread quite a bit.
I think this, combined with your LGBT/Slaanesh post that violates Rule 2 pretty handily will net you 50 points and a week threadban.
@sir_fire: The bolded areas are where the most blatant of rulebreaking happened. You violate Rule 2 repeatedly here in your arguments, and your appeals to absurdity end up violating them worse. You equivocated LGBT issues to deviancy and took them to the extreme. You argued in a very dishonest way, and then you started characterizing your opponents as all communists or "playing the victim."
Pretty clear-cut Rule 2, 3, and 4 violations here. Like above, I'm going to issue you a 50 point infraction and a weeklong threadban. When you get back, please acknowledge your opponents have points, even if you disagree with them.
@Chlof, while your anger and frustration is understandable, your expression of it does violate Rule 3. I'm going to give you 25 points and a three day threadban.
When I've finished issuing these infractions, I'll open the thread back up. Please, don't set it back on fire when I do.
First off, there's good ways and bad ways to go about arguing your points. Deciding to go ahead and insult everyone you're arguing with just because they disagree with you is a very bad way.
@João Paulo, in this post here, you have insulted those you disagree with, called them disgusting. For daring to believe something more is there than what you thought. Combine that with the way you've repeatedly hammered in this point and moved goalposts, I'm going to give you an infraction for violating Rules 3 and 4. You did derail the thread quite a bit.
I think this, combined with your LGBT/Slaanesh post that violates Rule 2 pretty handily will net you 50 points and a week threadban.
@sir_fire: The bolded areas are where the most blatant of rulebreaking happened. You violate Rule 2 repeatedly here in your arguments, and your appeals to absurdity end up violating them worse. You equivocated LGBT issues to deviancy and took them to the extreme. You argued in a very dishonest way, and then you started characterizing your opponents as all communists or "playing the victim."
Pretty clear-cut Rule 2, 3, and 4 violations here. Like above, I'm going to issue you a 50 point infraction and a weeklong threadban. When you get back, please acknowledge your opponents have points, even if you disagree with them.
@Chlof, while your anger and frustration is understandable, your expression of it does violate Rule 3. I'm going to give you 25 points and a three day threadban.
When I've finished issuing these infractions, I'll open the thread back up. Please, don't set it back on fire when I do.
Hakazin
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Soo... putting aside that whole knifefight, I've come back to thinking about something I threw purely out of irritation.
Like, thinking about it, I can't actually name a single named, distinct character who works with or serves Chaos. They're all either a crazed murderer or a crazed dictator, with a crazed dictatorial murderer occasionally thrown in for good measure.
And I'm saying that as a fan of Chaos. For a faction supposedly about deviation from the norm, they're awfully uniform in temperament and personality. And, to boot, if you do have someone with a distinct personality, the canon metaphysics strip it away until you're left with one of the aforementioned types.
Meanwhile, on the Imperium's end of things, you've got everything from Ciaphas Cain to Eisenhorn to Guilliman to Lukas the Trickster to Karamazov. All distinct characters, instantly identifiable from one another, all within the set of 'Catholic Space Nazi'.
Like, thinking about it, I can't actually name a single named, distinct character who works with or serves Chaos. They're all either a crazed murderer or a crazed dictator, with a crazed dictatorial murderer occasionally thrown in for good measure.
And I'm saying that as a fan of Chaos. For a faction supposedly about deviation from the norm, they're awfully uniform in temperament and personality. And, to boot, if you do have someone with a distinct personality, the canon metaphysics strip it away until you're left with one of the aforementioned types.
Meanwhile, on the Imperium's end of things, you've got everything from Ciaphas Cain to Eisenhorn to Guilliman to Lukas the Trickster to Karamazov. All distinct characters, instantly identifiable from one another, all within the set of 'Catholic Space Nazi'.