not a big fan of genjutsu in a tertiary slot - personally I think anything that we're making offensive/defensive opposing rolls with against primary stat like rolls needs to be in the 1st or 2nd tier, with 3rd-4th for relevant skills that dont have to overcome such.
I was of the same opinion and had a long discussion on the matter with shrooms. You can apparently make genjutsu with built in bonuses like attack jutsu, and you can make genjutsu that provide tags and such even on failure.
I was of the same opinion and had a long discussion on the matter with shrooms. You can apparently make genjutsu with built in bonuses like attack jutsu, and you can make genjutsu that provide tags and such even on failure.
Right, but Alertness doesn't really do much in a secondary slot - assuming most ninja run it there you are getting a coin toss for going first when fighting others of your level, or outright losing when trying to punch up (or outright winning when punching down, but that goes for tertiary too).
Assuming out of every 3 fights one is punching up, one is punching forwards and one is punching down, getting Alertness in a secondary rather than tertiary slot makes the average score for going first... 1.5/3, instead of 1/3. That is to say you get extra 16.67% odds of going first by doing so. Considering you only get 1 Primary and 2 Secondary skills, giving up one of the latter for zero benefit the other 83.33% of the time seems unwise.
A tertiary Genjutsu skill might provide some benefits like you say, sure, but nowhere near as many as a secondary one thats really on a primary level because its defended against by iirc 2/3 Resolve + 1/3 Alertness, aka two secondary defenses. Genjutsu that provide tags on a failure are still using up action economy to do it - either Standards which is a big no-no, or Supplementals which compete with Substitution and Ninjutsu buffs.
If you are expecting to fail every roll with a Genjutsu and still get benefits, there's not much point in levelling it much (and tertiary is one of your top 6 skills, so thats high up), might as well get something else into the tertiary slot at that point and just cast Genjutsu with Water Clones or something since the action economy cost is far lower and the level doesn't matter. If they are able to cast it at least, maybe they are not unlike SCs.
Proper high level genjutsu synergizes extremely well with Stealth too - simply hide and make some Water Clones, have them engage and genjutsu your enemy yourself while they are distracted, then have the clones finish them off, bonus point for them being very cheap and individually able to handle a Chuunin each with the final statline assuming we get a decent melee buff, in case there is more than one enemy. Something like a Hiding in the Mist-esque Genjutsu illusion that obscures the view and debuffs physical stats heavily, but only for the enemy, would be very good. Speaking of - can Water Clones operate in regular Hiding in the Mist without debuffs or do they have real "visual" senses?
One of the examples in the ninjutsu doc has you still gain a tag if you fail by fewer than 5 shifts (getting 2 tags if you actually succeed) but you can't just dump the skill entirely and expect it to keep up.
(There might be Genjutsu that can fail by any amount and still provide a small bonus, but you're not going to be able to make those with Genjutsu 10 or 20 lol)
One of the examples in the ninjutsu doc has you still gain a tag if you fail by fewer than 5 shifts (getting 2 tags if you actually succeed) but you can't just dump the skill entirely and expect it to keep up.
(There might be Genjutsu that can fail by any amount and still provide a small bonus, but you're not going to be able to make those with Genjutsu 10 or 20 lol)
Those Tags would scale with Genjutsu AB right? So having Genjutsu 60 and succeeding vs Genjutsu 50 and failing would be +14 vs +6 in bonus? Thats more than twice the value - and with the same action economy opportunity cost its a massive difference when you could be casting a Ninjutsu buff or Substitution or something instead, or even an attack if its a Standard.
5 Shifts is 15 points - so rolling at -10 base means you actually fail by 15 or more on a relative -6 or less which isn't exactly rare when dice can go from -24 to +24 combined on both sides. Thus tertiary Genjutsu makes for a far diminished effect at best - and possibly no effect realistically....
...Especially if its a Mind Control given this (thanks for pointing it out), which might make tertiary Genjutsu useless versus peers since the relative defense effectively goes up with the pyramid tiers by +3.33 per Tier, because it scales with 133% of a stat but stats are static tiers apart.
For example :
Genjutsu 50 (Tertiary) vs Alertness 60 (Secondary) + Resolve 50/3 (Tertiary) = 50 vs 77 = -27, basically -9 Shifts at +0 dice, or completely useless.
Genjutsu 20 (Tertiary) vs Alertness 30 (Secondary) + Resolve 20/3 (Tertiary) = 20 vs 37 = -17, basically -6 Shifts at +0 dice, still bad but less so.
Even if Alertness and Resolve were both tertiary for the opponent, a Mind Control Genjutsu with a Tertiary 50 slot still rolls against 50 + 50/3 = 67, aka -17 which on average fails to even apply its small failure effect (that needs -15 or more). So keeping Genjutsu in a secondary slot seems like a must to even realistically score the minor failure effect vs peers, certainly at Jounin level.
Well jutsu can produce superhuman sensory abilities like Living Roots, so I was thinking maybe Earth Clones have some kind of seismic sense, Water Clones can perceive stuff through bodies of water and mist etc. Yes its nowhere in the doc, but edge cases and neither is it said anywhere they have senses akin to the caster - and they are closer to pure chakra constructs than shadow clones which fully mimic real bodies and can even bleed after all. So, wasn't sure, thanks for the clarification. Maybe something like this could be TH'd into them, hmm...
Genjutsu is rolled vs Resolve + 1/3 Alt. Not Alt + 1/3 Resolve.
Besides that your arbitrarily chosen stats are badly optimized. There is no reason to ever have Resolve 50, most people will keep it at 40, maybe go to 49 if they have extra XP. Secondly, since we plan to buy Genjutsu to 59, use that instead of 50.
You get:
Genjutsu 59 vs Resolve 40 + 20 (1/3 Alt), a literal 1 point swing. Well within the realm of rolls, bonuses, and invokes.
This is before the built in bonuses to genjutsu attacks that I talked about. 2AB bonus (reasonable with genjutsu 50s) means you're natively rolling higher than your peer opponents by a lot
Depends on the genjutsu (as with ninjutsu). I think generally using the base skill's AB is better, so that would probably be the one that's harder to create.
That particular example wasn't a mind Control genjutsu, it was a supplemental illusion. This can still be useful even if they pass the roll if it forces them to spend their own supplemental to dispel it or else suffer some effect. Example: you make an illusion that makes everything the same shade of white so you basically can't see anything. They will obviously realize that's a genjutsu once affected by it, but they still have to dispel it if it took effect or else they can't see anything. (Again, varies by genjutsu, some will not take effect at all if you don't win the roll, some will under certain circumstances and force them to dispel.)
Also FWIW I think Kenzou gets a lot more mileage out of illusions than mind Control at least at the moment. Mind Control is basically just a second attack vector, which he probably will want eventually, but illusions let him boost his current primary attack's own rolls or teammate rolls and they're generally hands-free so he doesn't need to stow his swords.
Genjutsu is rolled vs Resolve + 1/3 Alt. Not Alt + 1/3 Resolve.
Besides that your arbitrarily chosen stats are badly optimized. There is no reason to ever have Resolve 50, most people will keep it at 40, maybe go to 49 if they have extra XP. Secondly, since we plan to buy Genjutsu to 59, use that instead of 50.
You get:
Genjutsu 59 vs Resolve 40 + 20 (1/3 Alt), a literal 1 point swing. Well within the realm of rolls, bonuses, and invokes.
Sure I mixed them up. Nonsense is a very strong word though, might as well just swap the names of the skills since both Resolve and Alertness are reasonable in a tertiary and secondary context. Honestly, Resolve is likely more valuable than Alertness, but thats my opinion.
The thing is, even against two tertiary skills, the scenario where Genjutsu is at its strongest, Mind Control just doesn't really work in a tertiary slot. Which is a scenario I also illustrated, but sure, blow a minor mistake like a mistyped swapped pair of skill names out of proportion while assuming you get X9 skills while the opponent gets X0 (for some reason), all to try and claim it invalidates the whole argument as "nonsense".
Resolve 40 that you propose would literally be a quartary stat for a 70 capstone jounin, not even tertiary. Barely in top 10 skills, maybe not even. No, I do not think that is the case for most ninja. Like dammit, it is a stat that both defends against one of the two main ways you can suffer damage and die from - aka Mental Stress - and governs the size of its stress track and amount of related Consequences you can take before dying.
Its literally like Athletics and Physique rolled into one skill, just for a damage type thats comparably rarer - but one which you can't just dodge with Athletics or via traditional means. Putting that into a quartary slot is just asking to die, at that point a mere Chuunin with Genjutsu in a primary slot can kill that Elite Jounin with no recourse on a good roll. I'd say its the most important skill after your Primary Attack and Athletics. It really depends how common Genjutsu and mental attacks / challenges are to encounter relative to physical ones for sure, though.
I'm not even exaggerating :
Chuunin (Genjutsu) : 49 (Base) + 6 (Dice) = 55
E. Jounin (Resolve) : 40 (Base) + 20 (Alertness/3) - 6 (Dice) = 54
E.Jounin with 25k XP dead to a Chuunin with 7k, in one moderately unlucky roll because of quartary Resolve. Not to mention some Genjutsu might have +AB bonuses that makes this not even require luck to pull off and that even a lowly Genin one mission out of the academy can land Genjutsu 29 tags (and debuffs) via failing by less than -15 on a Resolve 40 guy at this point with some luck.
This is before the built in bonuses to genjutsu attacks that I talked about. 2AB bonus (reasonable with genjutsu 50s) means you're natively rolling higher than your peer opponents by a lot
I think this is where the rock paper scissors shit starts to emerge - anyone without an obvious answer to genjutsu is going to start running into problems, but anyone who's well prepared for it might start being a problem. OTOH it might be a more viable avenue against someone who's very well equipped for conventional melee users, etc.
I think this is where the rock paper scissors shit starts to emerge - anyone without an obvious answer to genjutsu is going to start running into problems, but anyone who's well prepared for it might start being a problem. OTOH it might be a more viable avenue against someone who's very well equipped for conventional melee users, etc.
This is before the built in bonuses to genjutsu attacks that I talked about. 2AB bonus (reasonable with genjutsu 50s) means you're natively rolling higher than your peer opponents by a lot
Right, but if you can get +2 AB then with Genjutsu in a secondary tier you get effectively +12 to your genjutsu rolls relatively and can just delete any peer who doesn't have both secondary Alertness and secondary Resolve, which that would be very rare. Or if they are using sensory jutsu - these might be kinda nice to have available on reflexive casting actually, kinda like a Substitution but for Genjutsu.
On +0 dice and without invokes.
Genjutsu 60-69 + 2 AB = 74-83
Genjutsu 50-59 + 2 AB = 62-71
One of these could even hit most S-rankers (30-50k XP) :
- Genjutsu 69 + 2 AB beats Resolve 60 Alertness 70 on +0 dice.
- Genjutsu 69 + 2 AB beats Resolve 69 Alertness 79 on relative +12 dice (your +6, their -6).
The other might well fail against an average jounin (15-20k XP) :
- Genjutsu 59 + 2 AB fails vs Resolve 50 Alertness 60 on +0 dice.
- Genjutsu 59 + 2 AB fails vs Resolve 40 Alertness 59 on relative -12 dice (your -6, their +6).
And it only costs a little more XP. I fail to see comparable benefits of Alertness that would justify putting it in a secondary slot :
- You are still not going first when punching up- and now you effectively have a deadweight secondary skill which makes death much likelier.
- You were going first when punching down regardless with it being tertiary, so zero benefit here.
- You get a cointoss to go first against a peer ninja, in exchange for being that much weaker otherwise - where a peer ninja with a strong secondary probably whoops your ass even if they always go last because the slot is just that valuable, especially when turn 1 is usually buffing.
Kenzō hated to sully the moment, with Makiko nestled up comfortably in his arms, but his thoughts were growing heavier by the moment. "Listen, Makiko… I don't know when we'll be back."
"You never do," she noted, still relaxed.
"Well, true, but- things are a bit different this time."
"You mean like with the war and stuff?"
"...yeah." And stuff, indeed.
She finally squiggled away to get a good look at him. Finally, she said, "Alright."
His eyebrows went up. "...'Alright'?"
She rolled her eyes. "I knew what I was signing up for, Kenzō. I thought you did too. We take these moments where we can and pray for more down the line. That's the best we can do."
He sighed in frustration. "You deserve better than that."
"Let's be honest Kenzō, I've got it better than most." She gave a subtle wink before continuing. "We lead very different lifestyles," she said, touching his hand. "Maybe that's why we need each other. A little bit of an escape from… whatever's normal for each of us."
He chuckled, a bit sadly. "You might be right. Only problem is, I have no idea what's normal for me anymore."
She nodded grimly. "I take it you don't want me moving to Hidden Rain while at war?"
That wasn't the problem. Honestly, it might be the only safe place left in this country. Just not for him. Not anymore. He may never again see the wondrous colors of the prismarine pools, the fleeting lights of the shrouded suntower, or the intricate patterns of the memorial latticework. "I think the apartment will have to wait," he agreed reluctantly.
"Is there more to it?"
He breathed deeply. "I really couldn't say."
"Well, what's the plan for now?"
He shook his head. "I really couldn't say."
"Kenzō… is everything alright?"
He was barely holding back tears at this point. "...I really couldn't say."
She had the grace not to ask more questions, nestling back up to him. "I suppose I should say that I know you'll come back, and you have to fight twice as hard just to get back to me while I hold out hope. Or maybe I should ease your burden and assure you I'll be okay without you, so the stress doesn't weigh you down. Just do me a favor and believe whichever one will help keep you alive better."
He snorted softly. "That much I can manage, I think."
"Looks like our best bet out of Rain is through the caravan, then," Momoka concluded, having reviewed the contacts in Grass and River one more time.
"Talk about out of the frying pan and into the Fire," Shion muttered. "We'll be headed right into a nation at war."
Momoka shrugged. "That's true no matter what direction we go. As in the Shinobi World War- well, the first one anyway- Rain is at the epicenter of three Major nations colliding with one another."
"In some ways, it favors us," Kenzō noted. "If they're deploying their heavy hitters to battlefields and secret missions, there's fewer of them watching the borders."
"They still have to station them somewhere to be deployed," Shion noted. "We'd better hope our merchant friends know where that might be so we can stay the hell away."
Momoka nodded. "Once we're out of Rain… what is the plan?"
"Keep moving?" Shion suggested.
"I guess I mean… what is our long term goal? Maybe it doesn't need to be any deeper than survival." Momoka pondered this, remembering the days in the wake of her mother's death. "I think… I don't know. I think I need more than that. It's what I was doing before I accepted Kobayashi-sensei's invitation to join a team." She shuddered. "I'm not eager to return to it."
Shion and Kenzō both looked pensive. Kenzō asked, "Should my goal be realistic? Or somewhat unrealistic?"
Momoka smiled slightly. "Perhaps just say both?"
Shion spoke up. "I dunno if it's realistic or unrealistic, but… I wanna finish learning the Paper Arts. Maybe Technique Hacking to make more Paper techniques. Kobayashi-sensei isn't the only teacher I want to make proud. If I can get my hands on a ninjutsu scroll, I'm sure I could figure it out."
Kenzō nodded. "I want… I want a way to keep seeing the people I love, here in the Land of Rain. I dunno if that means moving them out, or- or settling our debts with Rain, or… becoming a local feudal lord in my own little slice of land, or something." He shrugged abashedly. "Like I said, maybe unrealistic."
Shion shook her head and put a hand on his shoulder. "We'll figure something out. I, uh, I want something like that too. My family's even further out of reach than yours. Right in the heart of Hidden Rain." She clenched her fists. "But I'll see my little brothers again one way or another. And my mom. And maybe even my dad." She chuckled darkly. "Maybe some time thinking I'm dead will help him re-evaluate how he sees me."
Kenzō grimaced.
Momoka breathed deep. "I suppose my realistic goal would be… for now, I'd be happy just seeing new sights and new lands. My unrealistic goal… well, it would be nice to stop this war." She blushed. "And maybe meet someone special. If we're listing everything."
Shion smiled supportively. Kenzō just stared, slack-jawed. Momoka considered this. Hmm, perhaps she gave off the impression of someone disinterested in such things? Was there a way she was supposed to be acting about it? She would need to study this more intently. Shion gave Kenzō a disdainful look and sighed. "Well, at least one of us is getting action I guess."
Kenzō cleared his throat. "So, to get back on track- we get to Fire, then what? I say we make our way to Iron and figure out what this info broker knows. Maybe he can give us a lead on some paper ninjutsu for you, Shion."
Shion tapped her fingers together evilly with a corresponding menacing laugh.
"None of us are all too familiar with the Samurai culture that dominates Iron, but perhaps our merchant contact can fill us in," Momoka suggested.
Shion shrugged. "It beats staying here and dying in a ditch, I guess."
After a quick four-day journey to deliver a letter at one of the stops on the caravan's travel path to arrange a meeting, Shion and Kenzō were back in town. Momoka was finally allowed to get out of bed and move around some. The muscle damage had been fairly severe in a few patches, but as Eiji had put it, she was bouncing back quickly. While bedridden and bored, Momoka had managed to solve the encryption on their pillaged jutsu scrolls, and Shion was currently looking over Sai's Cresting Wave technique. The other two scrolls held Radiant Splash and Hell's Roar, Lightning and Fire release techniques respectively, which none of them could use. (Yet. Growth mindset!)
Cresting Wave had served Sai well in their battle, granting him an elevation advantage and high mobility. Both features would pair well with her Water Whip technique, once she got the hang of this technique. Admittedly, true mastery would probably would take a while. It was a bit more advanced than some of her more basic jutsu, but her skill with Water had expanded even in just these past few weeks. Kobayashi-sensei was right, as usual. Fundamentals were everything. As much as she would love to keep pushing more of herself into mastering the powerful Water Dragon Bullet technique, she begrudgingly admitted to herself she wasn't quite ready for it. It's what Sensei would want for her. (He did tell her to knock it off repeatedly while he was alive after all.)
Nearby, Kenzō was swinging swords around like a fool and shaking his head in frustration. Momoka was mostly just stretching and walking around, fiddling idly with her weapons but not throwing them. They would need to be careful to train in such a way that it didn't leave any traces of ninja activity. Shouldn't be too hard…
She stepped back toward a small mountain stream and ran through the hand seals for Cresting Wave one more time. Rat. Dog. Bird. Dog. Water from the stream trailed toward her, lifting her slightly off the ground, spiralling under her with a quiet roar. She smiled and ended the technique before she fell flat on her face in front of the others. (She could learn her lesson eventually… the lesson being: wait until no one else was looking before getting too fancy.)
She conjured her Water Whip and began running through katas. Water Element might prove especially useful while traveling through the Land of Fire… though they were all hoping no trouble would arise. Would it serve her well against Samurai? She didn't know, but she supposed it wouldn't be long before she found out.
As she flashed through her attack forms, there was a part of Shion that wanted to be practicing her medical skills instead. The shame of being unable to help Momoka was still burning inside her, even as she consoled herself with the thought that it was likely beyond even Kobayashi-sensei's skills. Neither of them had been full-fledged doctors, even genin-level ones. And it was an unfortunate fact that in her near future, it would probably be more useful for her to train her ability to take life than to save life. A dead opponent couldn't harm her teammates in the first place. Still… she hated feeling so useless, much less in a role only she could provide for her team.
And… there was a part of her that was simply embarrassed to have been outdone by mere civilians. Not in a judgy way (she hoped), but, well. How is it that she had the capability of using chakra for raw manipulation of biology, and still couldn't do much compared to a civilian old man with some herbs and rocks? Perhaps, even being raised by civilian parents, even being taught by Kobayashi-sensei who possessed an unpopular respect for them… she had still been underestimating them. She knew what it was like to be underrated and overlooked. There was a frustration there, but there was a power in it too. She would be wise to try not to underestimate anyone no matter how innocuous they seemed…
When Shion was ready for her break, Momoka slowly made her way over, Kenzō in tow to be sure she didn't topple over. Momoka said, "I've been thinking about the best cover for our civilian identities, so as to blend in with the caravan as best we can."
"Can't we just hide in the cargo?" Kenzō asked.
Momoka shrugged. "I figure Leaf ninja will be looking through the cargo as we pass the border. I suspect it will be easier to try and blend in than hide entirely."
Kenzō nodded. "Okay then, what's the disguise?"
"Kenzō, you will pose as a civilian guard experienced in fighting beasts. It's close enough to your actual upbringing anyways." Kenzō shrugged and nodded again. "Shion will pose as your herbalist wife." She smiled pleasantly at the chorus of outcries. "And naturally, I will be your sister, recently caught in a painful blaze sparked during a battle between Rain and Leaf ninja. We are fleeing the front lines and searching for work elsewhere."
"Why do we have to pretend to be married?" Kenzō complained.
"Civilians our age are generally married by now. It will raise fewer questions." Also, it was funny. Not that she would mention that part. "I will stand out the most with my injuries, and am a far better liar than either of you. I have the best chance of deflecting any suspicion."
Shion and Kenzō both frowned but didn't argue with her logic. Neither of them were especially competent liars beyond the basics.
After a few more weeks of respite in Kenzō's hometown of Takahoto, Momoka was near fully healed, beyond some scarring. Kenzō was sad to see it come to an end so soon, but they would only draw negative attention to his home. There was already a close call with a squad of Fire ninja passing through the town, but they were on their way shortly after arrival.
Makiko had enjoyed what time left together they had, although she had been spending some time with Shion as well. Amused by Momoka's choice of cover story, Makiko was advising Shion on how best to behave around her 'husband' based on her multitude of experience, much to Shion's chagrin and Kenzō's embarrassment. That woman really had no shame.
His father and uncle were sad to hear he'd be leaving as well. Bunko was insistent Kenzō and Takumi come by his home for one more home cooked meal, prepared by his housemate Jurō. Admittedly, Kenzō might be eating like a woodsman again for the foreseeable future. Who knows what kind of weird mushrooms Momoka would have them chowing down on while on the road.
Some of the other townsfolk had come to see them off as they finally prepared to leave.
Takumi and Bunko wrapped him in a hug, before piling on a bunch of reminders about tool maintenance and oiling his weapons properly (naturally, Bunko snickered silently behind Takumi.)
Makiko, for her part, discreetly passed their group a bag of herbs.
Shion asked, "What are these?"
Momoka peered at the plants and noted, "I believe these are to avoid siring offspring."
Kenzō had a thousand-yard stare as Makiko pulled him into a hug and kissed his cheek. Momoka stared intently, as if taking mental notes, while Shion just sighed.
"What? It's a conversation we've had before. In your line of work, all manner of things might be required for a mission… indiscretions are fine, just don't get anyone pregnant and I'll avoid the same. I called dibs on your first kid."
Kenzō sighed. "So ready to leave now…" he muttered, but he gave her another hug all the same.
And so their journey out of Rain began. As they made their way east, he briefly looked back up the small mountain, not knowing how long it would be before he saw it again, if ever.
"It's a nice place," Shion commented as they ran. "I'd want to come back too."
"Admittedly, it's nice to get moving again," Momoka said.
It felt as if the whole world had opened up to Kenzō… and focused its attention on him. "I just hope we know what we're getting into."
Can they persuade Ayano to help them out? He's positively inclined towards Jun but would still be taking on a risk to do so. I will grant the team tags on the Aspect "Team Jun" for this.
Shion will attempt to make inroads to overcome Ayano's reluctance.
Shion, Rapport: 24 + 3 (Team Jun) + 3 (Dice) = 30
Ayano, Empathy: 25 + 3 (dice) = 28
Ayano takes one mental stress.
Ayano is sympathetic to their plight, but is also open about the dangers it will bring him.
Ayano, Rapport: 25 + 9 (dice) = 34
Shion, Empathy: 23 + 3 (Team Jun) - 6 (dice) = 20
Reroll!
Shion, Empathy: 23 + 3 (Team Jun) - 9 (dice) = 17
Reroll!
Shion, Empathy: 23 + 3 (Team Jun) + 6 (dice) = 32
Shion takes one mental stress.
Shion is hesitant to bring additional danger upon them, but assures him that they would defend the caravan or otherwise draw the danger away.
Shion, Rapport: 24 + 3 (Team Jun) + 6 (dice) = 33
Ayano, Empathy: 25 - 6 (dice) = 19
Probably not worth Ayano spending FP on this when he could save them for a juicy deal, so he is Taken Out and will agree to transport them.
A few paces away from his caravan's encampment, Naito Ayano greeted them formally but warmly, and they brought him up to speed… on certain subjects, anyways. Shion was careful not to mention anything about being Missing. It would be best to keep that under wraps as long as possible- admittedly, she wasn't sure how long that was.
"A damn shame about Jun," he said, forlorn. "This world is cruel to those least deserving of it."
They nodded solemnly. Shion said, "He hadn't mentioned you by name before, but he spoke highly of you in his written notes. We're hoping to tag along with your caravan and make our way into Fire." Would be good to fluff up their relationship as best she could.
"Mmm," he said noncommittally. "I'm sympathetic to the loss of your teacher, but… I'm hesitant to get myself too involved in the conflict between nations. If a Leaf ninja sees us transporting Rain ninja… the result could be quite devastating to my humble merchant clan, much less to myself."
Shion winced internally, but pressed on. "We understand. We don't want any harm to come to you on our behalf. We'd leave at the first sign of trouble, if that's what you want. Or defend you with our lives, if you prefer. But we're confident that we won't be noticed as part of your entourage. You have, what, a dozen men?"
"Twenty," Ayano admitted. Some merchants and cattle drivers, but mostly guards against bandits and beasts.
"We'll slip right in with the others, then."
"You're a bit young to be traveling civilians," Ayano noted.
"Traveling away from an active warzone?" Shion added, glancing at Momoka, whose skin was still shiny and red in a few places.
He nodded in minor concession.
"We have a cover story in mind, though feel free to workshop it. Kenzō will serve as another of your many guards, having grown up as a beast-hunter. Momoka will act as his sister, recently harmed in the fighting and hoping to flee the violence. And I'll act as an herbalist as well as his wife." She almost managed to say it without her eye twitching.
Ayano gave a small smile. "I see. I'll have to think about it, but… I think we can work with that. We're heading straight for Tanzaku Gai. I'd depart before we reach it if I were you. A city that big will have a decent Leaf presence even during wartime, if for no other reason than to keep an eye out for spies collecting intel on the goings-on of Fire."
Shion smiled. "I think we can manage that."
Kenzō was trying his best not to sweat under pressure as a small cluster of Leaf genin inspected the caravan. Standing still around a gaggle of potentially hostile ninjas was making him antsy. Though, civilians were naturally quite fearful of ninja, so maybe it actually helped him blend in with the other guards. The spear in his hands felt slightly stiff and awkward (though he was still plenty proficient with it even if he preferred a good sword.) He did his best to ignore it, and ignore the Leaf shinobi, who soon gave the all clear, returning to their encampment with news of the caravan traveling to Tanzaku Gai.
Kenzō was just about to breathe a sigh of relief, when a chūnin and his three students made their way over. The chūnin smiled at Ayano respectfully (or perhaps, dangerously…?)
"It's good to meet an esteemed member of the Naito clan," he said. It was a frankly generous description for a low-ranking member of the civilian merchant clan. "My name is Senju Saburo. My team and I are headed to the same place, as a matter of fact. Why don't we accompany you?"
To Ayano's credit, he wiped a bead of sweat with an innocuous motion of gratitude. "You offer such a gracious gift. But I fear my caravan does not move at the speeds of a ninja. I would not wish to slow you down as you serve your nation."
Saburo waved it off. "Fear not. A couple of my students are injured anyways, so some slow travel would do them good."
At this point, Ayano likely figured it would look suspicious to continue refusal.
Hence, he was forced to accept.
"In that case, we would be very grateful for your company. Thank you, honorable ninja."
"The honor is mine," Saburo replied perfunctorily.
As the start of a new arc, the PCs have all refreshed to 4 Fate Points. Shion spent two this chapter to persuade Ayano, but gained one for winning a significant social challenge.
Vote time! What to do now?
[X] Keep cool and ride things out. Depart when the caravan reaches Tanzaku Gai.
[X] Wait until you've traveled for a few days and then attack the Leaf ninja while their guard is down.
[X] Just start running as fast as possible towards Iron. What are they going to do about it?
We are officially out of the first arc and no longer following any one-shot I made previously. It shall be interesting to see where things go.
For the cliffhanger at the end, I think it's important to try and set up challenges with multiple solutions (most of the time anyways. If you really want a fight then just throw em into a fight.) This makes brainstorming more fun in my experience as a TTRPG player.
Relatedly, there is an interesting tradeoff to consider when making a challenge with solutions tailored to the skills of the party (making the people with those skills feel awesome and important) or a challenge with solutions tailored to things they are bad at (so they can try and scrape by by the skin of their teeth, and consider investing in the things they're bad at.) Which of those this scenario winds up being remains to be seen :^)
The chūnin standing before her glanced over to the kitchen, where dozens of plates sat uneaten and rotting, before steeling himself and breaking the bad news.
And apparently her father has been dead for a while because she's cooking for herself and leaving plates out until they rot. Damn.
Ninja villages must have ridiculous numbers of orphans, at least among their clanless. (Clan kids could lose both parents, but it's not exactly the same when you've got a dozen uncles and aunts who live in the house and have been doing at least some co-parenting your whole life.)
Wow. So many questions. How old is she at this point? The MfD and canon Academy graduates at 12 but maybe you extended it? If she's running solo missions at 12, that says some things about her skill level but also about the cruelty (short-handedness?) of the administration.
"Yeah. Don't want to be dead weight, either. Better someone else get the spot." She studied his mannerisms. It was obvious where this was going. "You want me to join your genin team."
...How in the world can she be dead weight when she's capable of running solo missions? This girl clearly has an underdeveloped sense of her own self-worth. Was she bullied a lot?
She glanced at Shion, who had a stormy, yet eager expression. She was still simmering from her bout with Kenzō earlier, but was clearly waiting with anticipation. There may have even been a hint of worry for their teammate in there… but no fear for herself.
A massive buck that shone like the sun burst through the trees ahead, barreling towards them, followed quickly by two other does. "Targets inbound. Handle them. I'll catch the strays before they reach the civilians," Kobayashi-sensei answered quickly, zipping away with his own Vacuum Step.
Their teacher left them to handle the stronger and more numerous force while he ran off? Says either he's very confident in them or he's got very bad priorities.
Wow. So many questions. How old is she at this point? The MfD and canon Academy graduates at 12 but maybe you extended it? If she's running solo missions at 12, that says some things about her skill level but also about the cruelty (short-handedness?) of the administration.
Wow. So many questions. How old is she at this point? The MfD and canon Academy graduates at 12 but maybe you extended it? If she's running solo missions at 12, that says some things about her skill level but also about the cruelty (short-handedness?) of the administration
It is a deviation from canon but I wanted to avoid the issues mfd authors ran into by the PCs all being like 15ish for most of the story and also not have to write from the perspective of a bunch of 13 year olds
Got curious how Jounin, Chuunin and Genin match up against themselves and one another so I ran some basic simulations.
I assumed optimized-ish ninja with a Primary Tier Attack Skill and Secondary Tier Athletics both at X9 of their respective pyramid tier as well as Substitution, a Universal +2 AB buff and Physique all sitting 3 tiers under the peak (with Sub at X9), with an additional +2 AB to offensive capability (ninjutsu bonus or another buff, so that the ninja has a 2 buff combo for both offensive and defensive purposes)
Using the above paradigm, I defined Ninja Tiers according to the ninja's Peak AB :
- Jounin (AB 8 - 70s peak, corresponds to roughly 25k XP)
- Chuunin (AB 6 - 50s peak, corresponds to roughly 10k XP)
- Genin (AB 4 - 30s peak, corresponds to roughly 3k XP)
I then established the relevant numbers for each ninja tier :
- (SAR) Standard Attack rolls with all relevant buffs.
- (BDR) Basic defense rolls, from just Athletics + Boost.
- (ADR) Advanced defense rolls, from Athletics + Boost + Sub + Buff, costing a Supplemental.
- (OST) Oneshot threshold, or how high an attack needs to roll (with 0 Weapon Rating) to inflict enough Stress to kill a healthy ninja outright through an advanced defense roll if they reroll to +6 via FP.
This resulted in a formula of (X = Peak AB) :
SAR : 15X - 7
BDR : 11X - 11
ADR : 18X - 32
OST : 18X + 11 (18X + 14 for a Jounin due to Physique 40's +1 Stress Track Size)
The relevant numbers become :
Rolls (SAR vs BDR/ADR/OST)
Jounin : 113 vs 77 / 112 / 158
Chuunin : 83 vs 55 / 76 / 119
Genin : 53 vs 33 / 40 / 83
The above by itself provides some useful numbers but transforming the data further :
- Chuunin vs Jounin : +6 / -29 = 2 Stress / 0% Hit Chance
- Chuunin vs Chuunin : +28 /+7 = 10 / 3 Stress
- Chuunin vs Genin : +50 / +43 = 17 / 15 Stress
- Genin vs Jounin : -24 / - 59 = 0% / 0% Hit Chance
- Genin vs Chuunin : -2 / -23 = 50% / 0% Hit Chance
- Genin vs Genin : +20 / +13 = 7 / 5 Stress
Jounin :
- Highly variably vulnerable to Jounin-tier attacks - coinflip odds of instant death if caught without a Supplemental, but by far the most survivable vs peer ninja if they have one - getting hit only half the time and suffering av. 1 Stress per attack (absent Weapon Rating and Armor).
- Impervious to Chuunin-tier attacks with a Supplemental but take 2 Stress on average from them (or a Mild with -6 relative dice), if caught without, making Chuunin a significant threat in numbers, especially if they support a Jounin (like 2 Jounin vs 1 Jounin + 3 Chuunin).
- Impervious to Genin-tier attacks until they run out of chakra to boost or get wounded, whether they have supplementals or not.
Chuunin :
- High but not total vulnerability to Jounin-tier attacks - coinflip odds of instant death if caught with a Supplemental on +0 relative dice, but can be alleviated to a very small risk with FP burning. A Chuunin's Supplemental fueled advanced defense roll matches a basic one from a Jounin. Absent a Supplemental or Jashin's own luck +24 relative dice, a Jounin-tier attack guarantees death, however.
- Medium but balanced survivability against Chuunin-tier attacks - av. 3 Stress with a Supplemental and 10 Stress without makes for minimal oneshot risk while fully healthy, even if caught flatfooted and without any Supplementals nor FP, while Supplemental use usually averts suffering Consequences from the first Chuunin attack.
- Impervious to Genin-tier attacks with a Supplemental but get hit half the time on average for very low Stress if caught without. Combined with Chuunin being able to reliably oneshot Genin they represent a significantly lesser if nonzero threat to Chuunin than Chuunin do to Jounin.
Genin :
- Total vulnerability to Jounin-tier attacks.
- Total vulnerability to Chuunin-tier attacks. Yes, a Chuunin-tier attack is reasonably guaranteed to one shot a Genin, absent outlandish dice.
- High vulnerability to Genin-tier attacks. Essentially glass cannons, Genin suffer 5 Stress on average with Supplementals and 7 without from one another, resulting in combat by and large being decided on initiative count.
- 1 Chuunin vs 6 Genin = Chuunin wins with a Mild Consequence.
- 1 Chuunin vs 7 Genin = Toss up.
- 1 Chuunin vs 8 Genin = Team Genin wins with 2 deaths.
- 2 Chuunin vs 1 Chuunin + 7 Genin = Toss up.
- 1 Jounin vs 4 Chuunin = Jounin wins with no Consequences.
- 1 Jounin vs 5 Chuunin = Team Chuunin wins with 0 deaths.
- 2 Jounin vs 1 Jounin + 3 Chuunin = Team 2 wins with 1-2 deaths. Yay combined arms.
The results indicate that, military value wise :
- 1 Chuunin (10k XP) = 7 Genin (3k XP) - Insignificant combined arms effects
- 1 Jounin (25k XP) = 2.5 to 4.5 Chuunin - Major combined arms effects if helping SJ/Jounin team leaders
Of course the analysis is limited because it doesn't take into account clever tactics and interactions, rather being just raw number mashing with an arbitrary if hopefully sane and typical ninja build methodology. Still, the outcomes should be representative of the military value that ninja of various tiers represent to their village due to the law of large numbers and averages - and it turns out that it is Chuunin, not Jounin, that likely represent the bulk of village military might when used in tactically sound team compositions, uselessness vs S-rankers nonwithstanding.
