LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Neutral, scumlean but I always scumlean him so not really indicative, townlean, neutral. Respectively.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
[X] Lynch Oshha
I'm not certain I'll be around near EoD, so I want to drop my vote now.
Oshha was already one of my top two contenders for scum- D2 behaviour looks like a mislynch, though it could easily be plain bad reads. (In case I misused the term: Deliberately leading town to lynch town.)
This was a weak read.
Then we have stuff surrounding mass claims. I think these are the most relevant quotes.
In response to my initial push for a mass claim
After a while we get this:
I ask what made him start supporting a mass claim. We get this:
And when pressed by 1K, this.
Oshha is not being consistent here. It is clear from the first of these quotes that, at the time, they felt massclaims were unwise. They then proposed a massclaim. They either went from thinking a massclaim is a bad idea to thinking (at a minimum) that it was a decent idea, or they proposed a massclaim while believing it was a bad idea.
If it's the first, then we read "I am starting to think that we might need the extra information from mass claims to get things moving again if only to shake up the board or something along those lines." and "I haven't changed my mind. I am just considering that shaking things up with more information might weigh things towards making a mass claim more beneficial to town." as explanation behind this shift in perspective.
The latter of these is essentially "I haven't changed my mind, I just went from thinking it was a bad idea to thinking it might be a good idea." (Which generally is referred to as changing your mind). That'd be an inconsequential inconsistency, except they made a big deal of not having changed their mind when 1K pressed.
If it's the second, then we read the statements "I am starting to think that we might need the extra information from mass claims to get things moving again if only to shake up the board or something along those lines." and "I haven't changed my mind. I am just considering that shaking things up with more information might weigh things towards making a mass claim more beneficial to town." as extremely waffly statements which fail to espouse genuine belief- essentially "I'm not thinking this but I'm thinking about thinking this". This doesn't seem entirely plausible to me, but we'll run with it for a moment. In this read, Oshha does not, in fact, change their mind. They just propose a massclaim while still actively thinking it's a bad idea. They then present arguments for it, without committing to the arguments.
This is... such an incredibly bad look that I have to assume that this is not what Oshha is trying to argue happened.
I can see a few townish resolutions to these inconsistencies, but it's enough that I'm fairly happy with my vote.
I'm not certain I'll be around near EoD, so I want to drop my vote now.
Oshha was already one of my top two contenders for scum- D2 behaviour looks like a mislynch, though it could easily be plain bad reads. (In case I misused the term: Deliberately leading town to lynch town.)
This was a weak read.
Then we have stuff surrounding mass claims. I think these are the most relevant quotes.
In response to my initial push for a mass claim
After a while we get this:
Wherein Oshha proposes a mass claim.
I ask what made him start supporting a mass claim. We get this:
And when pressed by 1K, this.
Oshha is not being consistent here. It is clear from the first of these quotes that, at the time, they felt massclaims were unwise. They then proposed a massclaim. They either went from thinking a massclaim is a bad idea to thinking (at a minimum) that it was a decent idea, or they proposed a massclaim while believing it was a bad idea.
If it's the first, then we read "I am starting to think that we might need the extra information from mass claims to get things moving again if only to shake up the board or something along those lines." and "I haven't changed my mind. I am just considering that shaking things up with more information might weigh things towards making a mass claim more beneficial to town." as explanation behind this shift in perspective.
The latter of these is essentially "I haven't changed my mind, I just went from thinking it was a bad idea to thinking it might be a good idea." (Which generally is referred to as changing your mind). That'd be an inconsequential inconsistency, except they made a big deal of not having changed their mind when 1K pressed.
If it's the second, then we read the statements "I am starting to think that we might need the extra information from mass claims to get things moving again if only to shake up the board or something along those lines." and "I haven't changed my mind. I am just considering that shaking things up with more information might weigh things towards making a mass claim more beneficial to town." as extremely waffly statements which fail to espouse genuine belief- essentially "I'm not thinking this but I'm thinking about thinking this". This doesn't seem entirely plausible to me, but we'll run with it for a moment. In this read, Oshha does not, in fact, change their mind. They just propose a massclaim while still actively thinking it's a bad idea. They then present arguments for it, without committing to the arguments.
This is... such an incredibly bad look that I have to assume that this is not what Oshha is trying to argue happened.
I can see a few townish resolutions to these inconsistencies, but it's enough that I'm fairly happy with my vote.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I did not propose a massclaim, I am asked for second opinions because it was looking more and more like a good idea to me, but I still had my earlier doubts.
You people need to work out the difference between "I think this might be a good idea now due to a change in circumstances, what does everyone else think?" to "I think this is a bad idea, but let's do it anything".
Anyway, I am the Disloyal Storm Trooper. I joined the Empire out of idealism, but grew doubts after my unit committed an atrocity and got assigned to this outpost due to those doubts. I am cynical and paranoia and have no loyalty to the Empire, but I am not in for your rebellion either. I'll throw my lot in with whichever keeps me alive until I've got a chance to slip away. My paranoia means that I always watching my back and I've got a secret hold-out blaster to shoot anyone sneaking up on me.
Basically survivor with a one-use ability to take out the first guy to visit me.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
I was pretty clear that I didn't think "I think this is a bad idea, but let's do it anything". was a plausible read. I will take this as confirmation that this was not your motivation.
Whether you proposed a massclaim or just floated the idea for second opinions is... well, not immaterial, but the argument holds regardless. You went from "I don't think a mass claim is necessary nor a good idea." to "I think this might be a good idea now due to a change in circumstances, what does everyone else think?" which represents a change of mind. This makes your insistence that you didn't change your mind absurd.
I am not sure what I could be misunderstanding here.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Probably you ignoring the context of me saying I hadn't changed my mind. 1K falsely claimed I had changed my mind about not supporting a reveal so I called correct them on that fact.
I've clearly changed my mind about somethings because otherwise wouldn't have I brought up. So if I say I've changed my mind about A and B, but not C and then someone claims I've changed my mind about C, I'm doing to deny changing my mind about C whilst accepting I changed my mind about A and B.
The fact that the thread had crawled to a halt and looking at past day hadn't helped me much with my reads led me to believe that it might be beneficial to do a massclaim to get more information for town to use. So I made that suggestion to be helpful to town whilst making it clear that I wasn't supporting a mass claim because if I think something could be beneficial to town, I'm not just going to not mention it because I personally think that it isn't.
But apparently you and 1k either have trouble reading what I said or are scum because you assume I have to change my mind about everything or nothing at all because you are ignoring the concept of nuance and having something between all or nothing.
- Location
- Hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can you stop accusing everyone of not understanding nuance when you yourself are removing the nuance from my point? As I said here...
I get you didn't literally say 'we should actually massclaim.' You telling me I either can't read or are scum isn't exactly helping your case, and it's just rude.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Doesn't that make it a good idea for us to lynch you, then? If you're telling the truth, you win just as easily by agreeing to vote with scum, bringing LYLO that much closer. The primary utility you might have had to us was taking out scum via your 1 shot kill, which is spoiled by telling us (and thus the scum, also) about it, so they have every reason to leave you for last.
And if you're lying, you're probably scum. Why shouldn't you be the next lynch?
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
So, sorry for passing out. Got distracted by family and I was dead on my feet by the time I got to my room.
So, I'm noting a distinct lack of claims. It's late in the Day so I'm worried this isn't going to matter as much as it would if I actually had the time to do it earlier, but 'ere we go!
Nictis: Vanilla
1KBestK: Cop
Tykan: Vanilla.
Mesonoxian: Jailer or Vanilla.
Oshha: Vanilla.
QT: Copy of Cyricubed or Rolecop.
Hobo: Copy of Cyricubed or takes fluff speculation too far. Uncertain what role if just speculating.
Lost: Uncertain. Vanilla(?)
Byzantine: Vanilla(?)
Nanimani: Vanilla
Rosen: Vanilla
ComiTurtle: Doctor(?) or Jailed N1 Cop.
Cyricubed:Technician. (Tracker/Lookout type from other comments?)
These are just power speculations from the stuff in the threads.
[x] Lynch Oshha
If you're Town, it's a bit too late to be lying about stuff Oshha. But between the general reserved readslists, passing the buck off to me for the Rosen lynch, the way you're interacting with 1K and the claim at Survivor... I swear there was more, but I just woke up and probably don't have time to go through all my reasons again.
I'm pretty sure that 1K is Town, Byzantine is getting a maybe from me and I think I remember having some townreads on Hobo. I need to review QT and Tykan, and don't remember much of Lost. @mesonoxian I'm uncertain on, they feel like new Town getting overly tunnel focused and letting previous biases control their future readings, but scum continuously pushing on a group that everyone else agrees as not Scum is something that I have done before and it works to keep people's expectations of you down.
Probably Town, but I'm not sure.
As for Oshha's claim... It feels like he's just trying to appeal to my nature here while keeping visitors away. I mean, "Survivor that kills their first visitor" is a pretty pointless Survivor skill, it'll just randomly kill someone and not do anything for the Survivor, it's just an unfortunate landmine for both Scum and Town, and we haven't exactly seen any sign of a Town sided Vigilante yet.
And family is calling me, here's to a good EoD?
So, I'm noting a distinct lack of claims. It's late in the Day so I'm worried this isn't going to matter as much as it would if I actually had the time to do it earlier, but 'ere we go!
Nictis: Vanilla
1KBestK: Cop
Tykan: Vanilla.
Mesonoxian: Jailer or Vanilla.
Oshha: Vanilla.
QT: Copy of Cyricubed or Rolecop.
Hobo: Copy of Cyricubed or takes fluff speculation too far. Uncertain what role if just speculating.
Lost: Uncertain. Vanilla(?)
Byzantine: Vanilla(?)
Rosen: Vanilla
ComiTurtle: Doctor(?) or Jailed N1 Cop.
Cyricubed:Technician. (Tracker/Lookout type from other comments?)
These are just power speculations from the stuff in the threads.
[x] Lynch Oshha
If you're Town, it's a bit too late to be lying about stuff Oshha. But between the general reserved readslists, passing the buck off to me for the Rosen lynch, the way you're interacting with 1K and the claim at Survivor... I swear there was more, but I just woke up and probably don't have time to go through all my reasons again.
I'm pretty sure that 1K is Town, Byzantine is getting a maybe from me and I think I remember having some townreads on Hobo. I need to review QT and Tykan, and don't remember much of Lost. @mesonoxian I'm uncertain on, they feel like new Town getting overly tunnel focused and letting previous biases control their future readings, but scum continuously pushing on a group that everyone else agrees as not Scum is something that I have done before and it works to keep people's expectations of you down.
Probably Town, but I'm not sure.
As for Oshha's claim... It feels like he's just trying to appeal to my nature here while keeping visitors away. I mean, "Survivor that kills their first visitor" is a pretty pointless Survivor skill, it'll just randomly kill someone and not do anything for the Survivor, it's just an unfortunate landmine for both Scum and Town, and we haven't exactly seen any sign of a Town sided Vigilante yet.
And family is calling me, here's to a good EoD?
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
If he is a Survivor, lynching him doesn't help Town. He could side with Scum, but killing the Survivor would still leave us in LyLo the next day.
I'm voting him because I don't believe him, but there is reason to leave someone you believe to be a Survivor alive at this point.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Okay so I'm going to bed, won't be up for EoD.
[X] Lynch Oshha
Because the current case against is as good as anything else I've got, and since he already blew his load on claiming I don't have to worry about accidentally killing the doc or some shit. Third party with a kill? That's not an automatic policy lynch from me, but it damn sure doesn't incline me to trust you, and means I'm not gonna shed tears at your death if you are telling the truth rather than trying to hide a scumrole.
[X] Lynch Oshha
Because the current case against is as good as anything else I've got, and since he already blew his load on claiming I don't have to worry about accidentally killing the doc or some shit. Third party with a kill? That's not an automatic policy lynch from me, but it damn sure doesn't incline me to trust you, and means I'm not gonna shed tears at your death if you are telling the truth rather than trying to hide a scumrole.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
[X] Null
Probably hopping back to Oshha, but I'm curious what Tykan has to say and staying away from hammer doesn't hurt.
Probably hopping back to Oshha, but I'm curious what Tykan has to say and staying away from hammer doesn't hurt.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay as some of you have figured out, I lied about my claim. I did so partially to see if I could pull off faking a claim like Pawn did in Clown Mafia as a learning experience and partially to try and get the thread moving again as end of day approached. I'll admit that I got distracted in RL so I was away from the thread longer than I wanted to, but we still got a couple of hours left.
As for my real claim:
I am just an ordinary Storm Trooper. I am courageous and complaint whilst I am bad at intrigue, I do have a gun. I got my say and my words and my ability to shoot someone else alongside others once their death has been agreed upon. To see victory, I need get rid of all the threats here.
I'm believe this counts as paraphrasing since I've changed the important words and switched up the sentence structure.
[X] Null.
As for my real claim:
I am just an ordinary Storm Trooper. I am courageous and complaint whilst I am bad at intrigue, I do have a gun. I got my say and my words and my ability to shoot someone else alongside others once their death has been agreed upon. To see victory, I need get rid of all the threats here.
I'm believe this counts as paraphrasing since I've changed the important words and switched up the sentence structure.
[X] Null.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My reads.
1K = Scum.
Byzantine = Lean Town.
Meso = Neutral.
QT & Nictis = Lean town on both with Nictis town read being stronger, but I believe at least one of them is scum.
LDJ = Lean Scum.
Tykan = Neutral.
Hobo = Scum.
[X] Lynch InterstellarHobo
1K = Scum.
Byzantine = Lean Town.
Meso = Neutral.
QT & Nictis = Lean town on both with Nictis town read being stronger, but I believe at least one of them is scum.
LDJ = Lean Scum.
Tykan = Neutral.
Hobo = Scum.
[X] Lynch InterstellarHobo
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Oh jeez.
That's skirting the rules really hard.
That's skirting the rules really hard.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
[X] Lynch Byzantine
I'm convinced Oshha isn't scum now. There's not time to really dive in on anyone, so I'll go with my other old suspect.
I'm convinced Oshha isn't scum now. There's not time to really dive in on anyone, so I'll go with my other old suspect.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I made sure to change all of words whilst giving the meaning the same, which is literally what paraphrasing is.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
@InterstellarHobo: Oshha knowing the wording of the VT post means nothing. He could easily have been given it in his scum role message as "Your cover is that you are..."
Never trust the fluff. It isn't very important.
Never trust the fluff. It isn't very important.