Star Trek: Discovery

Sure, a spy agency might have some interesting stories to tell about the Romulan War. "Cerberus Lite: The Series starring Empress McHitlerstalin"... fuck that. Just fuck that. I have no interest in a show that's all about This Utopia Needs Some Fascism, and that fact that the showrunners seem to be all fired up about this concept fucking disgusts me.
I think it's a little premature to get up in arms about that show at this point. All we know about that series is that it's about Georgiou and Section 31--the same Georgiou that's gotten a lot of character development away from just being "Empress McHitlerstalin." Hell, that was the point 3x09 and 3x10 were making. There's absolutely potential stories to be told there that aren't just "Fascism is good, actually," especially since the running theme of Season 2 was "Section 31 ruins everything it touches."

What made DS9's S31 episodes work was Bashir, who, even when he grudgingly played along with the schemes that he agreed made sense, was always vocal about his distaste for the organization because it was utterly incompatible with his ideals and his belief in the Federation as an ideal. To him, something like Section 31 was utterly alien. Georgiou offers the potential for a similar conflict, where she ends up opposed to Section 31, not because it's alien to her, but because it's not. She knows where that path leads--it leads to Terra, and, like she told Carl, she's not going back to that.
 
Sure, a spy agency might have some interesting stories to tell about the Romulan War. "Cerberus Lite: The Series starring Empress McHitlerstalin"... fuck that. Just fuck that. I have no interest in a show that's all about This Utopia Needs Some Fascism, and that fact that the showrunners seem to be all fired up about this concept fucking disgusts me.

Me no care, Michelle Yeoh can play what she wants.

I'm hypped for that show more than I am for anything else Star Trek related.
 
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Terra Firma Part 2
The tenth episode of the third season and the second half of the two parter. The conclusion of Georgiou's test and the revelation that Carl is actually the Guardian of Forever. More on the latter later. There is also the fact they use Emerald Chain technology to gather the data from the ship in the nebula. More on that too. Back to the Mirror Universe Test. That Georgiou would try to reform the Empire is reasonable, given that she had heard that it had fallen (albeit not the exact circumstances).
The characters and the interactions between them were also good. Georgiou trying to change the empire, through compassion (especially to the Kelpians) was a good aspect of the story. The early conversation with that version of Saru about the other Saru surviving Vahar'ai was very good, reflecting the themes of change and improvement. That Georgiou and Mirror Burnham would fight was inevitable, but the battle was well portrayed. The outcome was unexpected with the two killing each other.
The return to the 32nd​ Century was done well, especially with the reveal of Carl as the Guardian of Forever. The re-use of the audio from the original episode was a rather good idea, adding to the experience. The explanation that the Guardian moved due to it being used in the Temporal War was good. Burnham's farewell to Georgiou was done rather well too. It didn't go on too long. It's obvious that this was to set up the Section 31 show, but I will watch it at least one. More on when she could have ended up in a separate post.
That Burnham would keep the outcome a secret is believable. But there is the usage of the Emerald Chain technology. I'm sure that it would come back to bite them. (Ossyra using it to her advantage somehow.) But at least it was useful, and they have the sensor data from the Kelpien ship. Vance taking Saru to task for it was a good scene. However, I'm ambivalent about the wake for Georgiou. I'm sure that while they would have remembered her for her contributions they would also have remembered the negatives.
But this is still a good conclusion to the two part story. 8.44/10.
 
I really like acting captain Tilly. Too bad she's gonna be traumatized by losing the ship during her first command.
 
I really like acting captain Tilly. Too bad she's gonna be traumatized by losing the ship during her first command.

Agreed on the non-Killy Captain Tilly. I'm a bit worried that they're going to sideline Saru in favour of more Burnham, though. I'm hoping it just turns into character development for her responsibility hoarding.
 
As we build up to the season finale, a few disjointed thoughts:

It looks like they are building up to have Burnham replace Saru, and frankly I think that would be an awful mistake. Burnham is the worst character on the show and that would make me stop watching entirely, probably.

I don't really understand why Saru is written the way that he is. He has been in Starfleet for at least seven years, was the lieutenant commander chief science officer on the *Shenzhou* and was the first officer of the *Discovery* as a commander. It's true that he was promoted remarkably quickly through those ranks, but in many ways he behaves, as captain of *Discovery*, as if he's never been in the chair before. Presumably he's had time as officer of the deck, right? Hell on *Voyager* even Harry Kim got to spend a reasonable amount of time in the big chair!

I go back and forth on Tilly - there are some times I like her and others I don't - but I think on the whole, my feeling of her is positive. In some ways she's just the Wesley Crusher character, but she's better written and dare I say better acted.

I am a huge fan of what they've done with Culber over this season. He's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters on Discovery.

I also like Stamets and Reno, but only in moderation?

One of the surprise standouts in some ways to me is Booker. When he was introduced at the beginning of the season I was decidedly dubious but he's well on his way to being a true believer and the way he's written to interact with Discovery's crew reminds me of a much better written Neelix.

I still don't understand why we get absolutely no ship glamor shots going on. What a waste. Equally so, I mostly hate Discovery's standing sets still. They remind me of Star Trek Online's interiors before the revamp - they're weirdly big, open, and badly lit.

I knew the Burn was going to be a disappointing mystery box payoff, and lo, I was not disappointed. This kind of mystery just never pays off and I wish they hadn't even bothered to start it.
 
Honestly not even sure that Su'kal is fully Kelpian anymore based on what we know, not least of which it seems a weird thing to happen by Trek standards.

Good episode though.

Did not like Tilly losing the ship though so quickly. While those tendrils were reaching all I could think of was Picard (?) saying "full reverse" which is what she should have done.
 
Where Georgiou May Have Ended Up
A: 1990's Eugenics Wars
Not likely. It would be weird to have an alternate past in Star Trek, which is about the future.

B: The Present
As above. Also there is potential for contradiction of Past Tense. (And bringing up the Sanctuary Districts would be confusing to casual viewers who wouldn't have seen most of Deep Space Nine.)

C: Late 2060's Post First Contact
There is a lot of potential here.

D: Earth-Romulan War
Ditto

C: 2160's Early Days of the Federation
And here

E: Return to the period Discovery had left.
At the same time as Strange New Worlds. This is most likely.

F: The Lost Era – Sometime after the signing of the Khitomer Accords, but well before the Enterprise D is launched.
There is a lot of potential here. (Like the Tomed Incident, for instance.)

G: Early 2380s.
At the same time as Lower Decks.

H: Early 25th Century
At the same time as Picard or shortly afterwards.

I: Later in the 25th Century, the 26th Century or the early 27th Century
Also unexplored, so far.


Su'Kal
The eleventh episode of the third season. Discovery jumps to the source of the Burn after finding a survivor aboard the ship. However, the Emerald Chain is making it's move. Despite the Chain moving on Kaminar, Discovery goes to the nebula. Saru is concerned but Vance assures him that Starfleet would be able to protect his home planet. That Osyrra would try to draw out Discovery that way makes sense. It is also good set up for later. (And not just that Saru hadn't seen other Kelpiens since he arrived.)
Going into the nebula, they find that radiation is very intense. The scenes where Discovery was trying to get to the crashed ship were appropriately suspenseful. That Book's ship has a better time of it makes sense. A bit surprising that Vance allows Saru to go on the Away Team, but maybe the policy about Captains not going on them was changed again. Then there is Stamets being concerned for Culbur. More on that below. The Away Team beams into the ship and find themselves in a holographic environment.
Culber and Burnham appearing as a Bajoran and Trill respectively were a surprise, but it was done very well. Saru as a Human was a good choice too. But the main thrust of this aspect of the episode was Su'Kal, the Kelpien who was left alone to be raised on the ship by the holographic programs after his mother died. The quest by the three crewmembers as they tried to piece together what happened was done very well. The worldbuilding about Kaminar, including the Elder hologram and the Federation Admission Hologram, was also good.
The Holodeck episode aspect was surprising, but even so the revelation that Su'Kal was responsible for the Burn was a let down. (But there may be more there.) But there also the other aspect of the episode, where Discovery had to confront Osyrra. That Discovery had a cloaking device didn't come out of nowhere given that the headquarters was cloaked when they first arrived there. However, the crew should have put up more of a fight when the ship was boarded. So, Osyrra almost effortlessly taking over the ship was also a let down.
But it was still enjoyable and I'm eager to see what happens next. 8.3/10.
 
So basically The Burn, the event that brought the Federation to it´s knees, the same Federation who beaten back the Dominion, apparently won the Temporal Wars and was for that matter a galactic hyperpower
was caused by an alien tantrum?
 
Not out of place for a series where you have beings like the douwd, Q, and other god-like beings running around. Or where you get god-like powers from running into the Galactic Barrier.
 
Not out of place for a series where you have beings like the douwd, Q, and other god-like beings running around. Or where you get god-like powers from running into the Galactic Barrier.
Sure, but it's thematically underwhelming as hell.
Like, if you're going to go to the far future and have a shrunken Federation, if the answer to 'why did this happen' isn't related to some failing in the UFP (or some direction the UFP took), then what's the actual point?

History doesn't have a point to it, but stories do. What's the argument raised by 'an alien tantrum fucked up the dilithium'?
 
Sure, but it's thematically underwhelming as hell.
Like, if you're going to go to the far future and have a shrunken Federation, if the answer to 'why did this happen' isn't related to some failing in the UFP (or some direction the UFP took), then what's the actual point?

History doesn't have a point to it, but stories do. What's the argument raised by 'an alien tantrum fucked up the dilithium'?

Yeah, that's fair.

I'm hoping that we'll get more of a reveal this week on what's behind it beside "shit's fucked yo".
 
Sure, but it's thematically underwhelming as hell.
Like, if you're going to go to the far future and have a shrunken Federation, if the answer to 'why did this happen' isn't related to some failing in the UFP (or some direction the UFP took), then what's the actual point?

History doesn't have a point to it, but stories do. What's the argument raised by 'an alien tantrum fucked up the dilithium'?

And this shit will have to be covered up, lest truth comes out and every race in the galaxy goes on a genocidal rampage that would make the Imperium of Man go "Wait, hold the fuck up!".
 
History doesn't have a point to it, but stories do. What's the argument raised by 'an alien tantrum fucked up the dilithium'?
"Perhaps we should not organize our society to be existentially dependent on a single natural resource?"

(NB: I haven't watched the season, and have no idea if they explore this idea or not, but it's the natural question that springs to mind.)
 
Did anyone else notice colour band degregation and pixelation in this episode?
 
"Perhaps we should not organize our society to be existentially dependent on a single natural resource?"

(NB: I haven't watched the season, and have no idea if they explore this idea or not, but it's the natural question that springs to mind.)
Yeah, but it'd be stronger if the overuse of dilithium was responsible for the thing that shattered the galaxy.

if some dude crying caused all oil to explode that wouldn't be a lesson not to use oil, it'd be a lesson that sometimes shit happens out of left-field.
 
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Why would there be a genocidal rampage? Like, I really don't see the logic that leads you to that conclusion.

What do you think other races or organizations would to the kelpians once they found out one of them brought the universe to what amounts to the Dark Ages?
 
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What do you think other races or organizations would to the kelpians once they found out one of them brought the universe to what amounts to the Dark Ages?
Stay the fuck away from them. Put up giant markers on starmaps to stay the fuck away from them. This is a setting where it has been documented that pissing off the wrong alien means that your species gets blinked out of existence.
 
What do you think other races or organizations would to the kelpians once they found out one of them brought the universe to what amounts to the Dark Ages?
I kind of assume that in the year 3188, people would understand that organizational links are far more important than mere genetics.

The burn occured because a Kelpian Research ship, operating under the vestigate of the Federation, was messing about with a dilithium nursery.
The exact nature of the incident (namely, that they all died and hence left a kid to mess around with was is obviously a highly unstable concentration of Dilithium) doesn't really matter.

The fault here lies with the Kelpians and Federation for messing with a Dilithium refinery, not with some random Kelpian who just happens to share his DNA with a toddler.

Honestly, I'm starting to get worried by how fast people seem to be expecting/awaiting mass genociding in television series, often on the flimsiest of justifications.
 
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I kind of assume that in the year 3188, people would understand that organizational links are far more important than mere genetics.

The burn occured because a Kelpian Research ship, operating under the vestigate of the Federation, was messing about with a dilithium nursery.
The exact nature of the incident (namely, that they all died and hence left a kid to mess around with was is obviously a highly unstable concentration of Dilithium) doesn't really matter.

The fault here lies with the Kelpians and Federation for messing with a Dilithium refinery, not with some random Kelpian who just happens to share his DNA with a toddler.

Honestly, I'm starting to get worried by how fast people seem to be expecting/awaiting mass genociding in television series, often on the flimsiest of justifications.

Well yeah, but you are assuming rationality after a cataclysmic event that killed millions possibly more and threw the entire balance of power into a mess and and we know, people dont tend to act rationaly after something traumatic as that.

I mean we have factions like the Emerald Chain who brought back piracy/gunboat diplomacy and slavery even thou the Orions were used as slaves themselves.

Even if the humans and others wont go after the kelpians, what makes you think people like the Cardassians or Klingons won't?
 
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Honestly, I'm starting to get worried by how fast people seem to be expecting/awaiting mass genociding in television series, often on the flimsiest of justifications.
In this instance I think it's because the show is coded as Serious Stories for Serious People, and gratuitous mass murder is one of the hallmarks of the current brand of Serious Stories for Serious People. Does it make sense logically? Not really - if the show was set within a generation or so of the Burn I could see it, but one of the hanging plot points is that only Burnham seems to have been seriously hung up about the Burn, it was too long ago for most everybody else - but Serious Stories for Serious People don't aim for logic, they aim for big dramatic moments because that's what makes it serious. (Somehow. Don't ask me, I have neither the money nor the cocaine necessary to understand how producers think.)

In so far as this plot thread has some sort of functional resolution, I'm going to say it's one of three options:
a) The Discovery crew magically restore dilithium all over the galaxy in vague fashion, allowing people to travel by warp again. (The "Dr. Who option")
b) After dealing with Orion shenanigans, Admiral Agent Cronenberg confides that Starfleet knew all along that it was the Kelpian scientists who caused the Burn, but kept it secret to prevent people from enacting reprisals on them (somehow, despite nobody having warp drives anymore) and the Discovery crew regretfully agree to keep the secret, good of the many outweighs the good of the few, etc. (The "X-Files option")
c) Having discovered the source of the big universe-altering macguffin, the Discovery sails on and never mentions this again. (The "Simpsons option")

Anybody want to add to the list?
 
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