- Location
- Minnesota
[X] Plan: Be Like Ghosts
Sport Tanks and the Shangri-La
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
-
- Tags
- hold my superglue sports tanks
- Location
- UTC -6
If the best strategy at low levels is sitting back and waiting for a moving enemy to blunder in your sight that feels like a flaw for the sport.
Yes, tanks of that era are effectively blind without spotters. But combining low weight (hard to spot) with poor spotting (fewer dice) makes things really boring :-/
Yes, tanks of that era are effectively blind without spotters. But combining low weight (hard to spot) with poor spotting (fewer dice) makes things really boring :-/
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
You received as much information as I could give you.
This is a pretty good visual of what I think of for 'light forest'- about two or three meters between most trees, some ground cover, no real major water items.
I initially threw that out on the basis of 'the more players do math the worse things go' but it may come back into the rules next time I do a major version change.
There's a lot of publicly available data on maps and teams out there- which you would know, if your team actually went looking for information. Instead, the thread decided not to, and lo; who am I to gainsay them? That said, bribing judges is both frowned on and grounds for expulsion from the sport and getting blacklisted. Don't try that shit.
One gun, one target hex. This is why pintle mount machine guns are a thing- they're great for getting you an extra way to beat bushes.
None of your tanks have those.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Ah, the wisdom of democracy.
*nods sagely*
*sips elitist tea*
More seriously though, we'll probably do some intel gathering next time, and I'm not exactly displeased with the results we got. Tank 5's Winged Hussars
perk is pretty good, as long as their driver isn't sleeping on the job.
Excellent. Then we just have to not be in 4-5 squares they decide to shoot at. It all comes down to how competent the enemy think we are. Are we competent enough to be somewhere in the hills? Are we so incompetent/so tricky that we didn't even leave the area we started? Are we somewhere in between? Did we actually decide to go somewhere completely different, and possibly get stuck about 1 hex into the thick forest surrounding us?
Which level are we playing at? How many levels above them are we playing?
*dons tinfoil hat*
Icipall
Don't worry, we can fanfix that!
- Location
- Cold snow fields of Finland
Man, that derailed faster than a Darkest Dungeon run when the RNG hates you.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I actually kind of enjoy it. It reminds me of how I imagine rogue vs rogue combat in DnD 5e. It's all about tricking your opponent into shooting first, because that lights up his position for just long enough for you to bean him with an arrow.
Edit:
Or like submarine vs submarine warfare. I can see how it could be pretty annoying if one was hoping for maneuver warfare type strategy though.
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Battles are designed so that your first shots can be decisive, but actually making contact is tricky. If you want to play the spy-versus-spy game that's possible (and several teams will absolutely be specced to do that) but more running battles are also possible- see taking no penalties until you start loosing parts of the tank- for bigger teams that are willing and able to slug it out and force a decisive engagment. Look at a Maus and tell me that's not explicitly designed to stand there, get pounded on, and then obliterate a tank with a Caliber 5 shell.
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
We had a grand total of one prep action before the match and we decided (accurately) that we were bottom of the barrel garbo tankers and wanted to try to work on that.
If we have more actions of pre-match prep, maybe we can decide to go for intelligence, but frankly intelligence doesn't really do anything when you are so bad that your decision space is constrained by what you can actually execute.
I don't think sitting here is really the best plan but it's one of the only things we can do. I'd prefer we just scoot south into an area where we actually have the option to maneuver in. If we stay here, we cannot even choose to advance on the enemy if it's tactically sound, since we can't cross any of this terrain. If we go south, we can attempt to pull them in and give us room to make a decision.
If we have more actions of pre-match prep, maybe we can decide to go for intelligence, but frankly intelligence doesn't really do anything when you are so bad that your decision space is constrained by what you can actually execute.
I don't think sitting here is really the best plan but it's one of the only things we can do. I'd prefer we just scoot south into an area where we actually have the option to maneuver in. If we stay here, we cannot even choose to advance on the enemy if it's tactically sound, since we can't cross any of this terrain. If we go south, we can attempt to pull them in and give us room to make a decision.
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Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
So as, er, technical consultant, I can tell you that it is probably the carb fault (I also gave faulty sparkplugs as an option, but they have very different symptoms). This basically means that you are not getting enough fuel and your tank is running very lean.
The FT-17 has a 4cyl engine with a single carburetor, so it affects all cylinders. The only way to work around it that doesn't involve a lot of maintenance is to drive the tank very slowly and not using a lot of throttle (it does run in the low revs after all).
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Given our drivers' predilection for blowing Driving checks whenever they move faster than a slow walk...
Good news, I guess?
[X] Plan: Be Like Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan: Be Like Ghosts
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
I've been looking at the perks list, and I think we should go for offensive and defensive perks next. There are few if any on those lists that aren't good, while a lot of the terrain and driving perks are either kind of meh or assume that we'll be driving on terrain that we can't drive on yet.
- Location
- United States
Command has some excellent perks too, perhaps better than defensive. Spot and stealth while stationary, spot reroll... I do want Mogadishu drill over from offense, though.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Yeah, Mogadishu Drill and Lap Loading would be amazing for the start of an ambush. Especially Lap Loading, since the tank could still maneuver the next turn.
Speaking of maneuvering, the text of the Los Los Los and Snapshooter perks seem to imply that there is an accuracy penalty for moving while firing. @7734 is a snapshot just a Shot check taken on the same turn as movement?
If that's the case, we would seem to take a -4 penalty to shots while moving, which would imply that we should only maneuver while reloading after a shot.
So an ambush should go somewhat like this:
Turn 1
- Driver: Spot
- Commander: Fire
Turn 2
- Driver: Maneuver
- Commander: Reload
Rinse, repeat, victory.
We'll also need to radio our tanks beforehand to make sure everyone knows where the enemy is. So add a turn 0:
Turn 0
- Driver: Spot *sees enemies*
- Commander: Radio *coordinates plan of attack*
- Location
- United States
2d6 time
Ft-17
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
So the Apocryphica tab is where I'm gonna put Cool Tank Things I find for y'all. Today, I've actually found a very good, restored, Ft-17 for y'all to look at, which in this game is listed as the Ft-17A.
Have fun, y'all!
Have fun, y'all!
Chapter 1, Turn 2
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Growling at the mess you were in, you had to make a decision. You could panic, or you could get angry, focus, and pull out of this shitshow. Sliding back into the turret, you decided to go with the later.
"Ok, looks like we're in a tough spot." You said, matching word to deed with a flick and a CLACK of the breech locking, "but we can make a stand here. They're just as green as we are, and like hell we're letting 'em go without a fight."
"Now that's the spirit." Cerdan said, chuckling. "Now keep an ear out- judging by some of the telltale signs the drone mics are picking up, I think the main event-
"INCOMING INCOMING INCOMING!" one of the female commanders yelled, before a splatter of bullets hit a few dozen feet left of her tank. You couldn't even tell the tanks apart, right now, considering how similar their paint jobs were!
"I have eyes on them!" someone else yelled. "Holy fuck! It's huge!"
"Direction, we need a direction!" Solomon shot back. You could tell it was Solomon, since he was both the squeakiest, and more importantly the only one not in his tank right now as he scanned the outside.
"Points fourteen, points fourteen!"
Slewing your turret to the south, you pulled down towards the gunsight to scan, before scowling and bracing your feet on the ammo crate below you. You needed to scan, and that meant getting your head up into the dome vent/sight. As you twisted your shoulders around the recoil guard and everything else, your head bonked on the top of the vision slit. Then you saw it.
Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. That was a bigass tank. Your only advantage was that they didn't seem to have seen you yet, but you didn't know when that would change. Checking your headset's silence, you realized it clacked over to the A-set: that had been Sabah who'd called out that tank.
"Thanks." You said, reaching into a pocket to tear out a stick of gum and start chewing.
"No problem." She replied, growling as she played with the shifter carefully. "I just don't want them to get the chance to hit us."
"I'll try to not let that happen." You promised, before hopping back over to the B-set. As the wave of chatter rose out of the abyss, you cut it off with a screech.
"Everyone, shut the fuck up!" you roared. "Can anyone get me an identification on that mess of a tank?"
"It's coming straight at us, and I see three turrets." Solomon said, still nervous. "I've muzzle swept him three times, though, and that commander is still blasting away on his gun!"
"Did you load your fucking gun?"
Guilty silence came out as you worked your way back down into your sling, working the shoulder-stock of your cannon into place. "I'm gonna muzzle sweep him in a minute, get his dumb head back inside. That'll probably get any coaxial guns spewing our heading, though, so until then, what on earth are they in?!"
"Formin here, not like there's many options." Your other tank commander said acerberically. "It might be a a Vickers Independent, unless it's a lot closer than I think it is and they're secretly a Mark 1 or Mark 3, but the turrets look too lopsided from my spot. I don't think it's a Neubaufahrzeug, they only built two dozen and it only has one bow turret, but most of them got imported over to the Midwest so who knows, and people mod the shit out of old German stuff. Two forward sub-turrets opens up a lot of options in terms of Russian vehicles; both the T-28 and T-35 had a few hundred units imported at one time or another. Most all of them only have machine guns in the sub-turrets, so unless they've got good gunners we might be safe?"
"Presuming it's not modded, sure." Solomon grouched. "A pocket thirty-seven would eat us alive."
"We're probably not going to out-range it, no," Formin grouched. "but we can absolutely kill it if we're clever and work our way around to sneak in a flank shot. Nothing that fat has well armored flanks."
"If nothing else, I can buy us some time." Solomon chuckled grimly. "Don't waste it."
-/-/-/-/
VOTES
Bonus: Guess That Tank!
[] Mk. 1
[] Mk. 3
[] Vickers Indipendant
[] Neubaufahrzeug
[] T-28
[] T-35
[] Write-in guess
Driver
[] Drive to tile xyz
[] Spot for tanks
Commander
[] Radio check to communicate
-[] Write-in what you want to say
[] Shoot a target
-[] Mystery Tank 1, range band 3 (shot will be at -1 penalty versus FRONT armor)
[] Reload!
[] Spot for tanks
docs.google.com
AN: remember, a miss that is within 5 of the KO dc is a Bonk, and causes capability degredation of the target. This goes both ways.
"Ok, looks like we're in a tough spot." You said, matching word to deed with a flick and a CLACK of the breech locking, "but we can make a stand here. They're just as green as we are, and like hell we're letting 'em go without a fight."
"Now that's the spirit." Cerdan said, chuckling. "Now keep an ear out- judging by some of the telltale signs the drone mics are picking up, I think the main event-
"INCOMING INCOMING INCOMING!" one of the female commanders yelled, before a splatter of bullets hit a few dozen feet left of her tank. You couldn't even tell the tanks apart, right now, considering how similar their paint jobs were!
"I have eyes on them!" someone else yelled. "Holy fuck! It's huge!"
"Direction, we need a direction!" Solomon shot back. You could tell it was Solomon, since he was both the squeakiest, and more importantly the only one not in his tank right now as he scanned the outside.
"Points fourteen, points fourteen!"
Slewing your turret to the south, you pulled down towards the gunsight to scan, before scowling and bracing your feet on the ammo crate below you. You needed to scan, and that meant getting your head up into the dome vent/sight. As you twisted your shoulders around the recoil guard and everything else, your head bonked on the top of the vision slit. Then you saw it.
Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. That was a bigass tank. Your only advantage was that they didn't seem to have seen you yet, but you didn't know when that would change. Checking your headset's silence, you realized it clacked over to the A-set: that had been Sabah who'd called out that tank.
"Thanks." You said, reaching into a pocket to tear out a stick of gum and start chewing.
"No problem." She replied, growling as she played with the shifter carefully. "I just don't want them to get the chance to hit us."
"I'll try to not let that happen." You promised, before hopping back over to the B-set. As the wave of chatter rose out of the abyss, you cut it off with a screech.
"Everyone, shut the fuck up!" you roared. "Can anyone get me an identification on that mess of a tank?"
"It's coming straight at us, and I see three turrets." Solomon said, still nervous. "I've muzzle swept him three times, though, and that commander is still blasting away on his gun!"
"Did you load your fucking gun?"
Guilty silence came out as you worked your way back down into your sling, working the shoulder-stock of your cannon into place. "I'm gonna muzzle sweep him in a minute, get his dumb head back inside. That'll probably get any coaxial guns spewing our heading, though, so until then, what on earth are they in?!"
"Formin here, not like there's many options." Your other tank commander said acerberically. "It might be a a Vickers Independent, unless it's a lot closer than I think it is and they're secretly a Mark 1 or Mark 3, but the turrets look too lopsided from my spot. I don't think it's a Neubaufahrzeug, they only built two dozen and it only has one bow turret, but most of them got imported over to the Midwest so who knows, and people mod the shit out of old German stuff. Two forward sub-turrets opens up a lot of options in terms of Russian vehicles; both the T-28 and T-35 had a few hundred units imported at one time or another. Most all of them only have machine guns in the sub-turrets, so unless they've got good gunners we might be safe?"
"Presuming it's not modded, sure." Solomon grouched. "A pocket thirty-seven would eat us alive."
"We're probably not going to out-range it, no," Formin grouched. "but we can absolutely kill it if we're clever and work our way around to sneak in a flank shot. Nothing that fat has well armored flanks."
"If nothing else, I can buy us some time." Solomon chuckled grimly. "Don't waste it."
-/-/-/-/
VOTES
Bonus: Guess That Tank!
[] Mk. 1
[] Mk. 3
[] Vickers Indipendant
[] Neubaufahrzeug
[] T-28
[] T-35
[] Write-in guess
Driver
[] Drive to tile xyz
[] Spot for tanks
Commander
[] Radio check to communicate
-[] Write-in what you want to say
[] Shoot a target
-[] Mystery Tank 1, range band 3 (shot will be at -1 penalty versus FRONT armor)
[] Reload!
[] Spot for tanks
Character sheets!
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Abstaining from the guess for now.
[X] Plan Bait and Flank
-[X] Driver - Spot for Tanks
-[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
--[X] "Michelle, Iris, start sneaking west and then eventually south to try and flank that beast. We'll start shelling it to try and pull it in."
[X] Plan Bait and Flank
-[X] Driver - Spot for Tanks
-[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
--[X] "Michelle, Iris, start sneaking west and then eventually south to try and flank that beast. We'll start shelling it to try and pull it in."
- Location
- United States
There was only one Vickers Independent made (a prototype), so it seems astonishingly unlikely that this random school got it. Unless people are genuinely manufacturing reproduction tanks for these matches rather than refurbishing old surplus stuff. If they're getting tanks made specifically for the sport, though, it could just as easily be some random custom job that has no historical counterpart. Alternatively, this could be an alt-history with some tanks having seen more production than in the real world.
Likewise, there were only 3 Mk IIIs made, and two dozen (from update, wiki says 5) Neubaufahrzeug.
I don't see any other candidates for what it could be.
That would leave it down to Cruiser Mk1, T-28, and T-35 as likely candidates. The Cruiser Mk1 isn't what most people would describe as huge (though it still would be twice the size of our tank), and supposedly isn't lopsided enough.
The T-35 is bigger and more likely to be described as friggin' huge, and has a pretty lopsided turret layout, so that's my guess.
[X] T-35
If that is a T-35, I wouldn't be surprised if it's basically their entire tank budget - at most they might have an additional light tank around or something. It weights ~6.5 times more than one of our tanks, and we only have five. It's an 11 crew tank, we have 10 crew scattered over our five tanks.
We basically have two approaches we can take here that I see. Either we try and flank, or we tell everyone to load and aim and count down to all fire simultaneously. Unfortunately, we wouldn't be a part of that barrage because we can't operate the radio and shoot at the same time. I am skeptical about us sneaking anything by, though.
Edit:
This bit makes it seem exceptionally likely it's a T-35, and that they have nothing else.
Likewise, there were only 3 Mk IIIs made, and two dozen (from update, wiki says 5) Neubaufahrzeug.
I don't see any other candidates for what it could be.
That would leave it down to Cruiser Mk1, T-28, and T-35 as likely candidates. The Cruiser Mk1 isn't what most people would describe as huge (though it still would be twice the size of our tank), and supposedly isn't lopsided enough.
The T-35 is bigger and more likely to be described as friggin' huge, and has a pretty lopsided turret layout, so that's my guess.
[X] T-35
If that is a T-35, I wouldn't be surprised if it's basically their entire tank budget - at most they might have an additional light tank around or something. It weights ~6.5 times more than one of our tanks, and we only have five. It's an 11 crew tank, we have 10 crew scattered over our five tanks.
We basically have two approaches we can take here that I see. Either we try and flank, or we tell everyone to load and aim and count down to all fire simultaneously. Unfortunately, we wouldn't be a part of that barrage because we can't operate the radio and shoot at the same time. I am skeptical about us sneaking anything by, though.
Edit:
This bit makes it seem exceptionally likely it's a T-35, and that they have nothing else.
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