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Sport Tanks and the Shangri-La

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[X] Plan tempting target
-[X] T-35
-[X] Driver- Spot for tanks
-[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
--[X] "Formin, Iris cut across him and catch their attention, Iris I want a smoke round in his face as you come across. Michelle load HE but don't fire we'll wait till we can get a shot at his sides."

The key factor for me is it has at least three turrets and their lop sided.

So plan is we get two tanks to cross the front and take a pot shot a the tank then a smoke round to blind them they'll be forced to turn either to chase the two tanks or to clear their vision and that will put their sides onto us where an HE shell should wreck their tracks and give us their sides.
 
googlyeyesultra said:
There was only one Vickers Independent made (a prototype), so it seems astonishingly unlikely that this random school got it. Unless people are genuinely manufacturing reproduction tanks for these matches rather than refurbishing old surplus stuff. If they're getting tanks made specifically for the sport, though, it could just as easily be some random custom job that has no historical counterpart. Alternatively, this could be an alt-history with some tanks having seen more production than in the real world.
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Most tanks in this have a production run of at least twenty to fifty units, because most stuff gets batch ordered by dealers and front-end groups. On the plus side, it means there's a lot wider of a stable; on the minus side, a lot of stuff that is discovered to be absolute trash tends to hang around the bottom tiers of play for-fucking-ever because nobody buys new tanks for anything less than a States team or a manufacturer demo group. A lot of stuff like Super Shermans with the 90mm guns and AMX-30 or Leopard 1s still hang around state or provincial tanker garages, because they won't fucking die and if you have Leo 2s or T-72s as your main element they're decent enough tanks.
 
7734 said:
Most tanks in this have a production run of at least twenty to fifty units, because most stuff gets batch ordered by dealers and front-end groups. On the plus side, it means there's a lot wider of a stable; on the minus side, a lot of stuff that is discovered to be absolute trash tends to hang around the bottom tiers of play for-fucking-ever because nobody buys new tanks for anything less than a States team or a manufacturer demo group. A lot of stuff like Super Shermans with the 90mm guns and AMX-30 or Leopard 1s still hang around state or provincial tanker garages, because they won't fucking die and if you have Leo 2s or T-72s as your main element they're decent enough tanks.
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SO exactly how many Marmon-Herrington tanks are around and used?

For those wondering check out the Chieftains recent video called the worst tank you never heard of.
 
coyote16able said:
SO exactly how many Marmon-Herrington tanks are around and used?

For those wondering check out the Chieftains recent video called the worst tank you never heard of.
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They made about a thousand; as a rule of thumb about 2/3 are still in circulation. You could probably buy them for less than your hauler trucks.
 
I assume it is a T-35 and want to try stating it out to guess at the front armor.

Our tanks
Armor: 6F-4S-2R
I think that's 3+2+2 for armor cost, but 7F-4S-2R would be the same price... 7 points
Top Speed: 6 hexes
12 points
Crew & Dice: 2 man Tanks
5 points for each Commander
8 points for 2 dice
Gun: 1 Caliber
Appears to be free? 3 of ours have +1 Range at 2 points each.

32 times 5 tanks plus 6 stray points makes the team worth 166 Points.

A T-35 isn't much faster than an FT-17, about a third more or so.

Armor: ???
Top Speed: 8 Hexes
16 Points
Crew & Dice: 11 Crew
50+28 with two dice
50+42 with three dice
78 or 92 points
Guns: (the fun part)
I'm guessing a Caliber 2 main gun + several more turrets. There are options for tertiary turrets, which I assume are 0-Cal for pinging off armor should tanks be hiding. I'm also assuming they up-gunned the rear tertiary into something that can actually hurt tanks creeping up from behind. It's what I would do with my customization budget.
1 0-Cal Tertiary - 6 points
3 1-Cal Secondaries - 30 points
1 2-Cal main gun - 4 points
40 points

134 points without armor (3 Dice would be rather overpowering)

(15-21)F-(17-18)S-8R
9+9+8
26 points (150 total)

Since 150 points is a nice number and an even distribution is easy to think about I'll go with these.

At point-blank out guns can't do more than leave marks on the front armor. Even at the minimum level of armor range I presented (15) we need an 11 or 12 roll to Bonk. A 1-in-12 chance. Or 1-in-36 if we keep out of Range 0. There's a much better chance to disable it outright from the back, if you can get there. Slugging things out looks even worse since they have the crew to fire and reload in one turn, with lots of crew for spotting checks as well!

TL;DR - Shots at the front armor are a waste of time
 
kelllogo said:
TL;DR - Shots at the front armor are a waste of time
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That's why my plan calls for two of our tanks to make a crossing in front of the tank catch it's attention and fire a smoke round at it. Natural inclination would after the smoke covers their vision would be to poke through the smoke but since the last thing they saw was two tanks moving across their front they would want to keep that front armor in position of the tanks.
 
The problem is that if the crossers are the ones who get its attention, we cannot flank if it just sits there or backs up. We have to keep it aimed at our current formation in order to slip around the side as we cannot get through the terrain directly to the south.
 
We're around 2-3 range bands away (dunno if the range band directly around our tank is range 0 or 1), we probably shouldn't load HE yet. Not unless we intend to get closer.

Perhaps we should have us and Michelle move up closer and hope that they don't spot us?

Or perhaps we can have tanks 1, 3, and 4 go west while tanks 3 and 5 distract it?
 
Spectrum said:
The problem is that if the crossers are the ones who get its attention, we cannot flank if it just sits there or backs up. We have to keep it aimed at our current formation in order to slip around the side as we cannot get through the terrain directly to the south.
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while a possibility let's look over there general actions so far team captain is arrogant, just plodding along wasting ammo and they are in a very heavy tank "charging" our starting point.

These guys definitely look like the type to see two tanks crossing in front of them and go after them especially if one ineffectually fires at it and the other launches smoke.
Sentient Tree said:
We're around 2-3 range bands away (dunno if the range band directly around our tank is range 0 or 1), we probably shouldn't load HE yet. Not unless we intend to get closer.

Perhaps we should have us and Michelle move up closer and hope that they don't spot us?

Or perhaps we can have tanks 1, 3, and 4 go west while tanks 3 and 5 distract it?
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HE isn't gonna do much damage but it can cause soft damage like breaking the track which will immobilize the tank and allows us to surround the tank.
 
coyote16able said:
HE isn't gonna do much damage but it can cause soft damage like breaking the track which will immobilize the tank and allows us to surround the tank.
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If you look at the Bonk chart, you'll also note that you can damage the main gun and externally carried stores. Coincidentally, because I haven't found a more elegant way to model it, additional turrets are penciled in under "external stores" for when things are damaged by hits.
 
7734 said:
If you look at the Bonk chart, you'll also note that you can damage the main gun and externally carried stores. Coincidentally, because I haven't found a more elegant way to model it, additional turrets are penciled in under "external stores" for when things are damaged by hits.
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heh.

As for additional turrets all I can think is that's an extra table but only for multi turreted tanks. Of course you'll probably need to set limits on how many turrets you can place but that's what this is partially for correct?
 
coyote16able said:
heh.

As for additional turrets all I can think is that's an extra table but only for multi turreted tanks. Of course you'll probably need to set limits on how many turrets you can place but that's what this is partially for correct?
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Pretty much. I'm not planning on doing custom tank creation for this quest, but there's a lot of dumb stuff that's in my head and I need to write down into the rules. Stuff like shoot on the move, how gadgets work, an actual perk and parts list; lots of things to do.
 
I was wondering about move and shoot. It's mentioned in the perks.

My guess was that we had to stop to shoot at this skill tier and and movement would work around that. Hence the rules for that maneuver not being presented yet. (plus any motion in combat being almost guaranteed to Bonk ourselves with something)
 
I'm worried that we may not even get a bonk, HE or not. I just noticed that distance both subtracts from our Shot check and adds to the DC.

I'm tempted to have tank 5 distract with an AP round while everyone else moves in. If we move southwest we can close enough distance in 2 turns to not have an issue with range. At that point HE rounds would be devastating and we would have an easier time flanking.

Even better, we would still have a good chance of our main force remaining undetected. They will assume we are near tank 5, and thus likely focus all of their caliber 0 guns around their. Our concealment will be a minimum of 8, plus 2 to 4 from range depending on whether the enemy moves. We have a good chance of them not noticing us, and if they do they'll likely have spent at least one shot on tank 5 anyway.

Something like this maybe:


[X] Plan: The Whites Of Their Eyes
-[X] T-35
-[X] Commander: Radio check to communicate
--[X] "Everyone who can move, head southwest, we're moving in to defeat them at close range. Michelle, Iris, load HE; Solomon, buy us some time."
-[X] Driver: Drive to tile J-13-2.

Edit:
What is the difference between a caliber 1 +1 gun, and a caliber 2 gun? I'm not seeing any difference, mechanically.
 
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[X] Plan Bait and Flank
-[X] Driver - Spot for Tanks
-[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
--[X] "Michelle, Iris, start sneaking west and then eventually south to try and flank that beast. We'll start shelling it to try and pull it in."

[X] T-35
 
We're basically invisible while staying still - I think functionally whatever group we send to flank is going to wind up being the bait, while whoever stays still is going to be dealing the damage. (Because they'll probably see the flanking force, turn towards it, and then our main force will be at their side or back).

Because of that, we shouldn't start shelling to pull it in or whatever - no reason for both groups to get spotted, because then they can back up, keep their front to both of us, and plink away at a distance.
 
kelllogo said:
I was wondering about move and shoot. It's mentioned in the perks.

My guess was that we had to stop to shoot at this skill tier and and movement would work around that. Hence the rules for that maneuver not being presented yet. (plus any motion in combat being almost guaranteed to Bonk ourselves with something)
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It's a bit of a hen's tooth right now: there should be a firing penalty for moving as per the original concept draft, but when I re-rigged the action economy I realized that setting that up would be a pain in the ass. It'll be coming, but it's not in the current rules.

Sentient Tree said:
I'm worried that we may not even get a bonk, HE or not. I just noticed that distance both subtracts from our Shot check and adds to the DC.
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I need to check the rules, I might have double-booked that in. It happens a lot.

googlyeyesultra said:
We're basically invisible while staying still - I think functionally whatever group we send to flank is going to wind up being the bait, while whoever stays still is going to be dealing the damage. (Because they'll probably see the flanking force, turn towards it, and then our main force will be at their side or back).
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Looking at it, yes. You are basically invisible unless they bushwhack you with a machine gun, in which case they're going to assume they hit something worth trying to waste with the Big Gun(s)
 
So not much I can say about my plan for it to be picked over any other plan as the big thing this round will be radio actions and what planed to do in the upcoming turns.

so over all my plan is for the three ambush tanks to hold fire until the enemy tanks' sides are exposed then ordering our teammates to open fire then on the turn they are reloading we fire creating a continues barrage of fire. Also the big thing with my plan that I think is quite good is I'm telling my teammates except the distraction to hold their fire til we get a good shot.
 
So we might to be able to win this soon if we only have one tank to deal with we just need to constantly barrage it with significant emotional events til we either knock out the tank or cause them to surrender.
 
Call your friends and relations, we're all tied up again. Fix this so I can update!
Adhoc vote count started by 7734 on Aug 15, 2020 at 7:20 PM, finished with 27 posts and 7 votes.
  • [X] Plan Bait and Flank
    -[X] Driver - Spot for Tanks
    -[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
    --[X] "Michelle, Iris, start sneaking west and then eventually south to try and flank that beast. We'll start shelling it to try and pull it in."
    [X] T-35
    [X] Plan: The Whites Of Their Eyes
    -[X] T-35
    -[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
    --[X] "Everyone who can move, head southwest, we're moving in to defeat them at close range. Michelle, Iris, load HE; Solomon, buy us some time."
    -[X] Driver: Drive to tile J-13-2.
    [X] Plan tempting target
    -[X] T-35
    -[X] Driver - Spot for Tanks
    -[X] Commander - Radio check to communicate
    --[X] "Formin, Iris cut across him and catch their attention, Iris I want a smoke round in his face as you come across. Michelle load HE but don't fire we'll wait till we can get a shot at his sides."
    [X] Vickers Indipendant
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[X] Plan: The Whites Of Their Eyes

;_; please roll 12s on that Radio check.

(I don't think loading HE is possible, but on the off chance they didn't load their guns already it may be worth repeating)
 
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