I feel that your faction design style really captures both the intent and quintessential punchiness of those found on the original Firaxis website. The design notes are probably my favorite touch, though, since they offer so much to engage with as a reader, critic, and collaborator.
I am delighted by your approval. I didn't want to bogart your thread with walls of text about my own fan works, and am relieved to hear that these concepts may be useful to you in continuing this story quest. Thank you very much for your kind words. I'm more of a setting-sketcher at heart than a narrative writer and I'm happy that aspects of my characters and my setting might be adapted to fit yours. You've done a great job creating a comprehensive and thorough universe of your own, and I'm glad that this project exists.
As an aside, it's pretty amazing that we both incorporated David Brin's works into our respective AUs, but it makes sense in retrospect; his earthbound works are very grounded in smart social SF and analysis. I didn't use
The Postman much in mine (Nat Holm is more of a throwaway reference than a major movement), but I still remember how that novel taught me about the Order of Cincinnatus concept and how he unfortunately foresaw the rise of anarchistic hard-right reactionary movements that want to turn back the Age of Enlightenment and embrace macho feudalism. My final faction in my first set will incorporate some very tangential ideas from
The Postman and slightly elaborated upon in
Earth.
I want to use the character concept, but I think there's significant body work that has to be done before it's road-worthy for this continuity. In my opinion, the Service Record and Psych Profile aren't fitting hand-in-glove.
That's a fine critique. I may yet tweak the profile in the future to make things gel together. There are instances where there is some disconnect between the service record/psych profile/faction mock-up, as is intentional in my newest one, but in Seneca's case it's more because he's meant to be a character that's sort of quixotic.
On a more general note, I tried to create characters that are open to interpretation, so feel free to alter them as you'd like for this project. I think my only suggestion is that, like what I had said earlier about Huxley being part of the Hunters, they are all strong-willed and charismatic enough to have their own personal agendas within the factions they exist in. And they might try to realize those goals in ways different from simply splitting and forming their own faction.
If we riff on his hedonism, the Dreamers might be the best vehicle for that in this continuity.
So to clarify, I didn't intend for him to be a bacchanal-type character, it's more like his conception of a perfect city would basically involving having a gourmet birthday cake and eating it too. That is, there would both be room for equitable social relations (unlike the one he grew up in!) and also room for pleasure and beauty instead of something more austere. This may be one of the places where he departs from Plato for something a little more- Epicurean. Also, his society's hedonism is less like
a Cult of Ecstasy and more like the Morganites living in luxury, except in his utopian conception
everyone could aspire to share in his perfect city's riches, without the need for massive corporate production.
I'd like to respond to your detailed analysis on the Dreamers in a later post- sorry for mostly talking about my writing and ideas in this one, but I think I need time to digest it, and to finish reading
Iterations - I'm still at the investigation into the Tomorrow Initiative, with about a dozen pages to go.
If Seneca is a Peacekeeper, I see him as the subversion of Lal. The latter, chastened by his past experience as a fallible administrator, embraces self-government; the former is much more a technocrat. Lal conceives his calling as service. He is there to do the hard work, to stand athwart the tracks, and then to give the people what they ask for in the end. Seneca probably thinks more in terms of giving the people what he genuinely believes they need. His utopia might look eerily like One World Government, even if he isn't interested in promulgating that at gunpoint.
I think that actually works quite well. Technocrat is such a dreary and colorless word that the good Patrician would likely brush away with disdain, but in its non-technological connotations of "rule by experts who think they know better", it fits the New Athenians' concept quite accurately. (I have an additional technocratic faction planned in my second set that embraces the technological connotations. Also, IRL we are also currently seeing a
wave of technological technocrats who are also trying to build their own perfect data-driven cities.) In any case, Seneca's obsessions of building a
shining city on a hill does fit this very concept very well, and his liberal impulses and civic minded philosophies gel pretty naturally with the Peacekeeper's open-mindedness.
Seneca could be a Morganite. [...] I think, over time, the Monopoly would more and more resemble a Company Town where vice is tacitly endorsed, even packaged and sold, but carefully stage-managed. I don't see Seneca preferring to stay in that kind of environment.
Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I see the New Athenians' hedonism as akin to the Morganites', just grander in Seneca's ambitions- and ego. I actually think the stage-managed Company Town you're describing is not different from his Perfect City (well, he does have his Greco-Roman virtue pretensions and dreams for class equality), but
he wants to run it. Morgan's Monopoly ain't big enough for two big builder egos.
The "wildcat" aspect of the Centauri Monopoly faction is now diluted thanks to the existence of the New Two Thousand while the hedonism angle belongs more to the Dreamers. It's the difference between the joint-stock company and the small business owner.
That makes total sense! It's good to differentiate between different conceptions of what corporate rule might look like. Deadwood vs. the East India Company. And it reminds me of the two business-oriented factions in the SMAC Fac Pack, which I'll tell you down-thread.
I mark Seneca as a Diadochi. For this faction, life on Chiron is an opportunity to pursue personal and society excellence by starting anew. The right "foundations" can be laid for a virtuous society in terms of everything from education and environmental management to civic design and public memory. I assume the Diadochi would argue that Old Earth just didn't admit of the possibility of change anymore because the social and economic "soil" were no longer fertile. Too many pressures prevented anyone from applying their energies in the right direction.
Okay yeah, that fits really well. I haven't gotten that far enough in this thread, but that sort of recreation of a society based on classical virtues sounds like the New Athenians.
Is Kasala more a political activist than Godwinson, sometimes crossing the line into warrior priest territory, maybe having a mentor who comes out of a neo-Jesuit tradition?
I think of him as more of a
politician and diplomat. Miriam's power is in pure charisma; I didn't want my spiritual character to do the same. He's a shrewd, canny communicator who can play the field and forge relations. Indeed, my concept for epithet at the
faction selection menu would be "The Pontiff" - not because he's the pope (yet), but its original meaning of
bridge-builder - he'd be the one to connect traditional Roman Catholicism with both traditional religions that'd continue on Chiron and the emergent faiths of the future. Also, my conception of the Parish is not just a religious faction, but a faction that attempts to establish perpetuation of a religious
establishment into the future. So they'd be just as concerned about statecraft as they are about saving souls.
I wouldn't say he's a warrior priest, more on the pacifistic side- I'd set the faction aggression level to Pacifist- but they are ready to defend the faith and I'd want it to be broad enough to launch the odd crusade, much like how Lal is capable of warring for peace. Though the Peacekeepers' aggressiveness is Erratic.
As far as being neo-Jesuit, I didn't think about who his mentor was, so feel free to interpret it any way you'd like!
You mentioned the Morganstar Accords, so I assume he has crossed paths with private military companies.
That was more incidental world-building to show how pervasive the Morgan brand is, but sure, in Kasala's travels through post-Nigeria I'm sure he has dealt with PMCs. Though as per the note Morganstar is a luxury resort like
Sun City is, not something more militaristic.
Marsh and St. Germaine were also at play in that part of the world; Marsh in Biafra, St. Germaine in eastern Zaire. Would Kasala go so far as to arm his flock? Perhaps he is widely regarded as a cat's paw of the Union Minière? This is a tricky thing. If anyone's going to turn into a sectarian militia, it's probably the Conclave. More on this at the very end.
I think Kasala would do whatever's necessary to keep the church intact- I guess the more I describe it, the more he sounds like a sacral Lal- though in my faction concept I had their contingent be more Swiss Guards than crusader soldiers. But certainly the Parish could call on the faithful, both Catholics and potentially other believers, to defend it. Or maybe he would try to use moral authority- legitimacy through the perpetuation of Earth-originated institutions- to protect his flock.
I think Miriam's faction is going to have to deal with those who have a specific theocratic vision. I associate the Conclave with a kritarky, for example. I feel like Kasala's church is much more focused on the "mere" fulfillment of spiritual needs and not so much on the creation of mental "safe space." I always imagined that Miriam would ultimately lose control of her flock as charlatans seized control. Here, my personal skepticism of organized religion shines through. It is hard for me to see evidence of good intentions on the part of dominionists of any faith persuasion.
Yeah, there's a difference between Roman Catholicism (and other institution-heavy, high church denominations like the Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc.) and Evangelical/charismatic American Protestantism, I feel. The former can often be more concerned about mundane matters as much as spiritual ones, and the latter can get moral and utopian about it. Also a reason why Catholics usually concern themselves about the End Times/apocalyptic vision far less than Evangelicals do. So your distinction between Kasala and Miriam's factions make sense. She wants to build a new Eden, a Promised Land. Kasala wants to keep the church alive, and expand the flock by being a good neighbor.
I'm still thinking about whether Miriam can be more than just a Dominionist, but that's neither here nor there. Did you take a look at Hydro's fanfic I linked to? What do you think of that portrayal of her, and the concept of the Believers/Conclave including non-Christians in her ranks? I suppose Jews might be welcomed simply because of being fellow members of the Judeo-Christian tradition, plus Evangelical Christianity is very friendly towards Judaism for various reasons, but I'm also wondering how the Conclave could end up embracing faith for the sake of faith- even when they come from traditions that are at odds with each other!
My Conclave (Believers) use the Orange-Catholic Bible, a nod to Frank Herbert's Dune. Perhaps Catholics use a different and not eponymous version, the Vulgatian Bible, and the two present some of the same material in different ways?
I hadn't thought about their Scriptures being expanded, though it would seem like a potential development given certain Catholic sub-factions pushing for syncretic outreach, so feel free to pursue that idea in your setting!
Nobody is going to like Miriam or Kasala preaching themes that put their exploitative labor practices or restrictive approach to speech front and center for debate. Even just by talking about the concepts themselves, without naming names, it's a problem.
Yeah, I think both have to appeal to the liberating aspects of Christianity.
The Africa I present is mostly still colonized, and I think it must be said that Katanga, while independent, is too dependent upon white soldiers, administrators, and technicians for us to avoid conversations about dependency and neo-colonialism.
That's fair. We ultimately have different AU's. Mine is intended to be canon SMAC fleshed out with ideas from
Earth and other humanist social sci-fi, plus the whole U.N.-F.C. war which is meant to be a somewhat vague plot device. In my timeline, as a slight subversion of everything falling apart in SMAC, Central Africa manages to pull itself politically together and leverage its great stores of coltan and other natural resources to be a functional federal state. Combining Lumumba's dreams and Mobutu's better attributes, perhaps- I didn't research too much into this part, but the reconciliation between the colonial Western-influenced past and the Afrocentric future is why a province/state/département can be called Zairean Republic of Katanga. I'd imagine the Congo Union incorporating DRC, Republic of Congo, and any other nearby countries that make sense (Rwanda?) into a free-flowing but stable community.
Overall, the clash between Islam and the West is more muted because the Cold War still rages. When it comes to religious and political strife in the Middle East, Judaism and Syriac Christianities are probably better-associated with conflict in the popular imagination than Islam.
I have a leader in my second faction set that might gel quite nicely, then. As far as Islam goes, I originally wanted to play up Muslims in Kasala's support base to try to give Islam representation, but I felt that sort of overcomplicates the Parish's concept.
The Commandment to Name. There are traditions in which knowing "True Names" is a source of power over that thing. If I remember correctly, that is part of the Jewish story of the Golem. Anthrpologists talk about the social power inherent in naming. Politics!
Yep! I wonder if any theologian has actually picked up Brin's exegesis.
There's an organization that appears in
@MJ12 Commando's "An Unraveled Tapestry," called the Anti-Ozymandias Protocol. Its creator is
@Cetashwayo. He describes the AOP as an "infinitely self-replicating imperial museum & relic shelter." The faction is trying to achieve dominion over sentient computer systems that have become historical artifacts after an intergalactic catastrophe. Ostensibly, it hopes to combine their accumulated data into a library so vast that it will be possible to gain an inner track on objective truth--or at least superior analysis.
Interesting. I'll have to add this to my backlog.
Can we put Kasala in the Peacekeeping Forces? I think he makes sense as a mainline mission loyalist rather than the progenitor of his own faction. I could actually see him as a counterpart to Vesper Abaddon's lawful evil outlook. I've even given him a quote in the upcoming narrative post.
Yep, makes sense to me. As mentioned upthread, like my faction leaders I'd imagine he has his own agendas and aspirations, but the Peacekeepers really are the natural fit for the Parish.
One thing about the Parish is that I intentionally made them to be the anti-Believers while still being Christian, but I've somewhat moved away from it, hence allowing them to use Fundamentalism. To use SMAC's Social Engineering categories, their natural temperament is Democratic. Maybe Police State could be their Aversion, but perhaps there could be a way to justify it by pointing out how very managed Vatican City is. I like trying to find absurd ways to justify seemingly contradictory SE choices- in Alinestra Covelia's masterpiece and veritable fanfic novel "Joe" she has the Data Angels adopting an emergency Police State where dissent is humanely but firmly put down with elaborate nonlethal measures.
I would imagine Parish's Fundamentalism society to be less like Miriam's straightforward American Protestant New Jerusalem, and maybe more like medieval throne-and-altar kingdoms where a hidebound authoritarian traditionalist state is ministered to by powerful conservative clergy. Space Holy Roman Empire, perhaps. I think it'd be a little too farfetched for
Iterations, but you could imagine a pragmatic reactionary Pierre appealing to Salan's neo-medievalist reactionary fantasies of space chivalry. But having the church exist only as a remnant under the sea is a little too limiting for him, and authoritarian.
So to wrap it up- and again let me know if I'm adding too many unrelated walls of text into your thread- I'd like to talk about a project that isn't mine. The
SMAC Fac Pack is a little mod project from circa 2003. It's not a particularly detailed mod- it doesn't even have art assets!- but I think it's the only themed faction set that attempts to add more backstory and ideology to its factions, rather than national- or corporate-based ones. (I'll link you to those ones in the future; they're largely chaff in terms of story but maybe there's some useful concepts or names.) Storyline is
Unity broke apart with entirely different people in charge. The comment there pasted from the defunct Yahoo! Groups page summarizes it pretty well, and if you download it there's a couple of overview docs.
I think the story is kind of silly: basically the saboteurs of this
Unity are merry pranksters, whose big
Joker idea is simply waking up freethinkers early and then
not engage in senseless violence? And then when the other more responsible parties wake up, they're horrified and chaos reigns without actual fighting happening? That said, the
Society of Free Thought does capture an ideological space I've noticed from other fan mods on NetworkNode.org around that time- the absence of an anarchist/libertarian type faction in SMAC. The Spartans are only libertarian from the rest of humanity and the Data Angels sort of fit that but only in terms of knowledge. In the faction text the Society ends up sounding like druggie bohemians- maybe there's a room for that in the Dreamers?
New Unity Industries is basically Samsung in space, but it does point out the amusing end result of Planned Economics because of monopoly aspect. Their
Holy See of Centauri is less imaginative than mine. I actually have a faction in my second set that is similar to the
Preservers of Terra (that's parallel evolution of SMAC fanfic for ya), though I think their execution is a little vague and bland. Their
Mission Loyalists are authoritarian Peacekeepers, so like my Sovereign Magistrates without the world war backstory fluff.
Speaking of parallel evolution, the
Chiron Cartel sounds a little the New Two Thousand. Odd that their pack has 2-3 libertarian type factions, but I suppose when one could make the claim that vanilla SMAC has just as many statist/authoritarian factions. Having two business-themed factions in a set of only seven
does feel redundant though, they probably shouldn't have characterized the Cartel as corporate-driven. Also,
Unity only has so many people; how are you supposed to staff dozens of corporations? I don't think they portrayed the ship as hosting half a million colonists and like a quarter million Planetfall survivors like
Iterations does.
Finally the
Confederation of Tribes (the final faction described in the comment- they're low-tech survivalists) embody anarcho-primitivist themes similar to your Hunters; when I first came across this project in the past I almost thought it was a continuation or inspired by the SMAC Fan Pack. Like other libertarian-ish ideologies, having neo-primitives and luddites on Chiron seems to be a space that the games missed out on. Perhaps such faction(s) are a
natural response to the transhumance whizz-bang I love science! character of the other factions. They'd probably not be actually fun to play in a game though, as they'd get stomped with low Research.
Again, thanks for the thoughtful response. Hope I'm not taking up too much space in this thread, and I'll be happy to be more concise or move to other channels in future replies.
