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Was there anything strategically usefull about Relief Station's location? If no, we might want to look elsewhere.
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: Iterations
- Thread starter Trenacker
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Was there anything strategically usefull about Relief Station's location? If no, we might want to look elsewhere.
- Location
- Classified
I don't recall anything in particular, but Relief Station has the advantage of already having some buildings established. It should be faster to rebuild it than start from scratch.
- Location
- New York
Relief Station is too far away from Warm Welcome to be defended easily. Rebuilding it would be a waste of resources.
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- She/Her
What about using SMAC's inbuilt map editor?
That was my concern as well.
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- She/Her
On a tangent about wing power, there are some unique issues with it on Planet. Take your traditional three bladed wind turbine, held up above the ground by a tall pole. The blades need to be light and strong, to withstand bending and centripetal acceleration, and the pole needs to hold up the mass of the blade and generator, and resist bending due to the wing.
The higher density of the atmosphere on Planet means we can use smaller wind turbines to extract a given amount of energy, but it also amplifies the loads on said turbines.
Wing turbines are also big and heavy - they represent a major resource investment for our nascent industrial capabilities. It's a lot of steel and composite that needs to be made.
I'd put forth that rather than wind turbines, we might use an airborne wind power system - perhaps something like this:
It's much easier to manufacture, requires far less material, and is way easier to ship to location and set it up. One of the mentioned uses is power generation in disaster zones for that reason.
edit: Here's a longer video about airborne power systems from a grad student working in the field.
The higher density of the atmosphere on Planet means we can use smaller wind turbines to extract a given amount of energy, but it also amplifies the loads on said turbines.
Wing turbines are also big and heavy - they represent a major resource investment for our nascent industrial capabilities. It's a lot of steel and composite that needs to be made.
I'd put forth that rather than wind turbines, we might use an airborne wind power system - perhaps something like this:
It's much easier to manufacture, requires far less material, and is way easier to ship to location and set it up. One of the mentioned uses is power generation in disaster zones for that reason.
edit: Here's a longer video about airborne power systems from a grad student working in the field.
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Keeping in mind that thus far we had a LOT of trouble doing radio communication without direct line of sight. IIRC in the narration the fungi generates radio interference that makes communications a pain in the ass over longer distances.
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- She/Her
Crank up the power of the transmissions and make the transmitters with parabolic reflectors to make them more directional.
Also, we would definitely have line of sight to the ground stations, given the height of the aerostat.
Edit: @Trenacker, what happened to Lal's wife and son in this continuity, by the way? (In the book Priya got shot in the back on the Unity and had to be put back into stasis, and Jahn ended up in charge of the Peacekeeping military).
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- Location
- New York
@Trenacker You have not been been able to keep up your previous planned schedule of updates. Of course, we understand life is important and often very busy. When you return, do you plan to adjusting or reconfigurating the build schedule? At this point, everything but the Skagway and the Extraction sector improvement would be done now and that would mean we left the printers and workshops idle for a while now. Do you plan on sticking on the original schedule or do you plan to adjust the build schedule to deal with the slower recent slower pace of updates?
Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
I don't think I introduced Lal's wife and son in this continuity. I honestly didn't plan to explore the subject of Lal's family life, focusing instead on the other faction leadership personalities.
At present, the plan will be to stick to the original schedule, update you on what would have happened in the interim, and then move on from there.
I don't have a restart date planned right now. Working through some literary burn-out. Expect me back, though. I rarely go long without the AC bug resurfacing. I will have relatives in town this week and that usually helps me to recharge and renew my creative motivations.
- Location
- New York
@Trenacker Well, it is now pass the original planned date for the repair of the Skagway. I hope you are doing well in your life and recovering from literary burn-out. Take all the time you need. The 75th Anniversary of the real life UN Charter also recently went by.
A question. Considering that the original Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri revolved heavily around post-Cold War 1990s era concerns, why did you choose to have the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact exist well into the 21st Century in your version of the Alpha Centauri timeline?
Here is some discussion and thoughts on the issue of the cryopods. There are things we should settle before opening certain cryopods. We should try to resolve the mystery of Vinka Dialyse before we open the pod of the female with the Comprehensive Transport bar code. Comprehensive Transport agents might have attempted to murder Dialyse or be responsible for placing her in a cryopod due to her knowledge of CT's false statements if the woman is she said she is and we should be cautious in the small chance that the other person might pose a threat to Dialyse. Additionally, we should open the CT pod after Yudikon is dealt with as we do not know if the woman with the CT bar code is a low ranking worker or a loyal high ranking corporate officer that might be use that status to try to gain influence over people or demand a large share of supplies. If it is the latter case with the woman with the CT bar code, I do not want her to have Yudikon as a potential ally.
Before we open the tube with the male in what appears to be a Carmelite military uniform, we should talk to Vesper Abaddon as the man in the tube may be a ghost from Abaddon's past as the man might be a former subordinate who committed atrocities on Abaddon's orders back on Earth or a victim of Abaddon's regime that would love to take revenge on the former dictator. Vesper Abaddon who is regarded to be one of if not the worst dictator of the 21st Century has made himself of all things a voice of moral conscience on Lal's councils of advisors. Why? Is it a way of trying to redeem himself? In saving the souls of others in leadership positions such as Lal, Abaddon might save his own soul? Enjoying the shock value of the 21st Hitler saying something is a morally bad idea which would force others to at least consider Abaddon's words instead of being probably ignored if he asked for a military or direct leadership role for the rest of his days in Warm Welcome? A chance to exercise power in the affairs of state in a small way at least? We should point out that whoever stashed Abaddon away on the Unity probably did not intend him to be a voice of conscience for the Unity Mission. Historically, nations and organizations that recruit former war criminals do so to use said war criminals' skills in oppression, murder, and war against their own enemies or at least gain insight to better oppress, murder, and wage war against their enemies.
The man with the probable Soviet criminal underworld tattoos. Generally, we have forgiven crimes committed on Earth so far. We should probably tell him that he is no longer on Earth and that he is free to start a new clean life in Warm Welcome if he turns out to be a former criminal. Warn him firmly against starting a new life of crime.
A question. Considering that the original Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri revolved heavily around post-Cold War 1990s era concerns, why did you choose to have the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact exist well into the 21st Century in your version of the Alpha Centauri timeline?
Here is some discussion and thoughts on the issue of the cryopods. There are things we should settle before opening certain cryopods. We should try to resolve the mystery of Vinka Dialyse before we open the pod of the female with the Comprehensive Transport bar code. Comprehensive Transport agents might have attempted to murder Dialyse or be responsible for placing her in a cryopod due to her knowledge of CT's false statements if the woman is she said she is and we should be cautious in the small chance that the other person might pose a threat to Dialyse. Additionally, we should open the CT pod after Yudikon is dealt with as we do not know if the woman with the CT bar code is a low ranking worker or a loyal high ranking corporate officer that might be use that status to try to gain influence over people or demand a large share of supplies. If it is the latter case with the woman with the CT bar code, I do not want her to have Yudikon as a potential ally.
Before we open the tube with the male in what appears to be a Carmelite military uniform, we should talk to Vesper Abaddon as the man in the tube may be a ghost from Abaddon's past as the man might be a former subordinate who committed atrocities on Abaddon's orders back on Earth or a victim of Abaddon's regime that would love to take revenge on the former dictator. Vesper Abaddon who is regarded to be one of if not the worst dictator of the 21st Century has made himself of all things a voice of moral conscience on Lal's councils of advisors. Why? Is it a way of trying to redeem himself? In saving the souls of others in leadership positions such as Lal, Abaddon might save his own soul? Enjoying the shock value of the 21st Hitler saying something is a morally bad idea which would force others to at least consider Abaddon's words instead of being probably ignored if he asked for a military or direct leadership role for the rest of his days in Warm Welcome? A chance to exercise power in the affairs of state in a small way at least? We should point out that whoever stashed Abaddon away on the Unity probably did not intend him to be a voice of conscience for the Unity Mission. Historically, nations and organizations that recruit former war criminals do so to use said war criminals' skills in oppression, murder, and war against their own enemies or at least gain insight to better oppress, murder, and wage war against their enemies.
The man with the probable Soviet criminal underworld tattoos. Generally, we have forgiven crimes committed on Earth so far. We should probably tell him that he is no longer on Earth and that he is free to start a new clean life in Warm Welcome if he turns out to be a former criminal. Warn him firmly against starting a new life of crime.
Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
I apologize for overlooking this reply. I missed the notification that somebody had posted again since I last provided an update.
I apologize, too, for the slow speed of my literary recovery. My head turns more and more often toward story debates and questing, but I haven't yet crossed the Writer's Rubicon. I suspect engagement like this does help, however.
Two reasons.
First, I am, quite literally, a close student of twentieth century history. I personally find the Cold War era fascinating.
Second, because Alpha Centauri was always a game of conflicting visions and one of the most impactful visions of the twentieth century was the one cast by adherents of Communism.
That said, the Soviets appear purely as a sponsor (an idea I liked from Beyond Earth) and not a full-fledged faction. With the new factions, both those of my own design and those submitted by others, I went toward contemporary ideas. These included: ecological imperialism (the Shapers), social atomization and loss of the self in the Digital Age (the Tribe), rising anxiety brought on by greater awareness of socio-political problems in the Digital Age (the New State), rising interest in psychology and pharmacology (the Dreamers), transnational criminal behavior (the Promise-Keepers), and the changing face of gender norms (the Hunters).
Good advice.
Vesper Abbadon, a character taken from NBC's short-lived Kings series, is my favorite character in the story so far.
To your analysis, I would add only: what if the most moral solution is often also the most pragmatic?
It's true, you do have a track record now in terms of how you deal with survivors' pasts.
- Location
- New York
If engagement helps your literary recovery, I will throw some more questions your way.
Why did you choose to have the old fashion European colonial empires exist well into the 21st Century? Why does France still control Indochina and Britain still control Hong Kong in the 21st century in your version of the timeline. You find the idea of humanity colonizing another world while still having old fashion colonies on Earth interesting?
Why did you choose to have the old fashion European colonial empires exist well into the 21st Century? Why does France still control Indochina and Britain still control Hong Kong in the 21st century in your version of the timeline. You find the idea of humanity colonizing another world while still having old fashion colonies on Earth interesting?
A while back, you said that you did not find the Alien Crossfire factions to be philosophically interesting. But now, you have introduced the non-ideological Nautilus Pirates and made them the main opponents for Lal's Peacekeepers to boot. They have been shown through "Skinner" to oppose the Peacekeepers potentially polluting the ocean but that seems to be simply out of self-preservation to avoid damage to their sea farms than an ideological attachment to the environment like Lady Skye's. So why did you change your mind about this.
For the idealistic factions such as the Peacekeepers, we have to hope that is the case or the moral solution is the better one in the long term. In the case of the Spartan prisoners, it was a mixed bag. Trying and sparing the Spartan prisoners instead of spacing them causes us to have a potentially dangerous population draining food in the colony for a while. But if we had simply spaced, we would not have been able to rehabilitate them and add their strength to ours. The Holnists are still being a drain but we have been unwilling to exile them to die or let them join potential foes. Are we are being idealists or pragmatic in continuing to hold the Holnists?
Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
And very glad for you to do so, I am!
Decolonization was my topic of focus as a historian years ago. I find colonial societies fascinating.
If I remember correctly, one of the readers/players expressed a preference for the Nautilus Pirates. I wanted to create something that people might want to read. Since they were kind enough to give me that input, I did them a good turn in the story.
It has been challenging to give the Nautilus Pirates a meaningful set of convictions. These days, you hear a lot of people talk about pirate republics. Post-apocalyptic storytelling is also in vogue right now. To some extent, the Nautilus Pirates are one of those factions that can exist only as parasites: there must be streams of maritime trade, or at least some exploration, to create the economy from which they siphon. Moreover, that economy must be sufficiently robust to continue in spite of the piracy. I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption to make right now, but once you'd set up on an island and I created "mysterious ships," I made the impulsive choice to go with the Pirates because it avoided having to put you into contention with another conventional colony at a time when I don't want to hem you in.
Obviously, both impulses and preferences can coexist simultaneously.
Vesper Abaddon's history is the kind that makes me think of Obi-Wan's presentation of Darth Vader to a young and impressionable Luke Skywalker: "He betrayed and murdered your father."
They might focus on self-rule with each captain ruling his own ship and the crew free to leave while in port. Piracy might not be their full-time occupation but only the one that impacts the other factions the most.
Salvage and searching and selling it might be a significant part of their economy with the captain finding it keeping it for itself and selling it to the highest bidder they cant plunder. They might also extort smaller coastal colonies to get the resources needed to maintain their fleet and only talk with those strong enough to prevent them from taking what they want.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I could definitely see a philosophy built around self reliance and the whole manly image of man triumphing against the elements and his fellow man.
It's not a particularly deep philosophy, but it has a certain appeal to a certain segment of society.
There is also the point that maybe factions don't all need a strong philosophical foundation; the pirates might just feel like they're doing what they must to survive. Basically the same rationalization as gangsters, which is what they are when it comes down to it.
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Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
I have to say, that's a pretty compelling recommendation.
I think, to flesh this out a bit, we'd need also to say that there is a very considerable accumulation of salvage already present in Chiron's oceans, traceable both to the Chiron Probe and the Unity, with more trans-orbital pods reentering the atmosphere every year. Conceivably, Earth was launching dozens of unmanned missions worth of matériel into slowly decaying orbit above Chiron for at least the fifty years preceding the Unity's launch, both to provide potential succor to Probe survivors and future support for the planned Unity Mission. Such material conditions would then create a basis for a robust salvage economy around which could be formed a maritime civilization or two.
I like the "every captain a king" aspect of your vision, too, because it allows us to imagine human behavior outside the confines of the faction construct.
Right. Now, to be sure, the Spartans already do the "man vs. man" thing, while the Hunters do the "man vs. nature" thing and the Ascendancy does the "man vs. time" thing. I guess there's the atavistic "man vs. the sea" thing. The Hunters tick another box as well: that of the people looking to maximize their liberties, especially freedom of movement and autonomy from encroaching rules, but there's a good bit of difference between full-blown pirate and mere "rover."[/quote]
That's true in the real world, but in this fiction, I intend to tie all factions to a philosophical anchor because that was a core aspect of the original game's design philosophy.
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Well, the sea does get associated with cultists and Deep Ones a lot for a reason...
Remember, mankind explored the depths briefly, and liked what they saw so little that we decided it was time to get off the planet.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I mean, after the third season of Seaquest I'd have left the planet too. XDWell, the sea does get associated with cultists and Deep Ones a lot for a reason...
Remember, mankind explored the depths briefly, and liked what they saw so little that we decided it was time to get off the planet.
Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
Well, the sea does get associated with cultists and Deep Ones a lot for a reason...
Remember, mankind explored the depths briefly, and liked what they saw so little that we decided it was time to get off the planet.
You know, I hadn't considered whether to populate Chiron's abyssal depths with monsters of the Antediluvian variety, but here's to good ideas!
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Being underwater does make it possible to get really big, so there's that. Release the planetkraken!
Another idea are things that aren't so dramatic, but are annoying logistical problems. Maybe there are areas where there are things that like to latch on to foils and cause problems by gumming up engines or gnawing on hulls over time or whatever. Or that fill the air with lots of floating microorganisms so whole areas of the ocean are frequently covered in thick fog-like clouds that reduce visibility and mess with radar.
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Trenacker
Margrave of the Transvaal
- Location
- Imperial Remnant
I won't miss the opportunity to write an Ahab.
110%.
Your colony is also on a pole, as I recall. The seas in (even) warmer climates are apt to be choked with fungus.
Plus, if other factions are terraforming in the broad sense of the word, your climactic and zoological experiences may be even more interesting than telemetric and orbital surveys originally suggested.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
I'd expect globally significant terraforming efforts to probably be unworkable until enough time has passed for humans to number in the high millions, due to the sheer amount of effort involved in terraforming on that scale.
It is fortunate for us that Chiron doesn't seem to have much in the way of polar ice buildup. Perhaps it's a hotter planet than Earth. Our port freezing up half the year would be inconvenient. Although we'll probably still have to watch out for icebergs when navigating.
As a side note, it just occurred to me that being so close to a pole we'll see wild seasonal variation in how effective solar panels are. Perhaps something like two seasons that are normalish, one season with double production, and one season with nearly none.
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- Location
- Ether
One neat thing I like about this project is how it incorporates a wealth of material from other series, even the disappointing Civilization: Beyond Earth.
@Trenacker, are you familiar with Pandora: First Contact at all? While the story is pretty execrable, the factions are somewhat cartoonish enough to include as joke characters, perhaps.
I'm also familiar with some old fan mods that were created in the early '00s- NetworkNode.org days, if you want inspiration from retro-factions.
And I have my own set that I've been thinking about for a while that I can suggest.
@Trenacker, are you familiar with Pandora: First Contact at all? While the story is pretty execrable, the factions are somewhat cartoonish enough to include as joke characters, perhaps.
I'm also familiar with some old fan mods that were created in the early '00s- NetworkNode.org days, if you want inspiration from retro-factions.
And I have my own set that I've been thinking about for a while that I can suggest.
- Location
- Ether
In the meantime, I'm going to post my own faction sets, perhaps some of them can be of inspiration.
[Alpha Centauri] Datalinks of the Second Ship
[Alpha Centauri] Datalinks of the Second Ship