Nictis
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It is optimal to yeet him, given that the alternative is a gamble
I do see what you mean, but I'll be getting into rereading the thread and building cases on everyone later. Hopefully.
I do see what you mean, but I'll be getting into rereading the thread and building cases on everyone later. Hopefully.
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Who is they in this instance? I'm so sorry, I've read this several times and I haven't been able to interpret your meaning.
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I feel like the last line here is indicative of town!Shalmoa? Like TMI that Shal would flip town. I remember it sticking out to me d1 too.
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what i've learned from today's discussion -- activity is suspicious, even (especially?) if you can take half a day off and resurrect the third most active poster and still hold top poster by a huge margin.
@Zone Q11: sorry for updating my reads based on -Rosen and yours vote shenanigans yesterday. -Rosen trying to force it onto me even despite that being somewhat suboptimal, you seemingly refusing to examine Zaealix until it's too late to credibly deny needing to. if you feel that "thinking about gamestate" and "realizing -rosen can tunnel super hard and still be wrong despite being a really good player" and refusing to note that my specific spot in the thread makes me the prime target for mafia not to kill because you can argue over whether or not to kill me for four days in a row without anyone being able to firmly force a conclusion?
That last one's just empirical fact, too. It's legitimately happened in two separate games now.
@Zone Q11: sorry for updating my reads based on -Rosen and yours vote shenanigans yesterday. -Rosen trying to force it onto me even despite that being somewhat suboptimal, you seemingly refusing to examine Zaealix until it's too late to credibly deny needing to. if you feel that "thinking about gamestate" and "realizing -rosen can tunnel super hard and still be wrong despite being a really good player" and refusing to note that my specific spot in the thread makes me the prime target for mafia not to kill because you can argue over whether or not to kill me for four days in a row without anyone being able to firmly force a conclusion?
That last one's just empirical fact, too. It's legitimately happened in two separate games now.
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This is also a reasonable take.
Living players:
-Rosen: Still seems to be tunneling me, but also seems willing to yeet Zone. Claim makes significantly more sense than Zaea's claim. Claim is fairly dangerous to actual scum!-Rosen, as I understand it? Slight ordering issues with things like how long it took -Rosen to decide that all town power roles might flip info-less. Lean town.
Zone Q11: Inconsistent application of newbie/low-commitment tolerance. Hit Kingster hard, didn't hit Zaealix at all, hasn't pressed Scia a bit but complained about IH significantly. Scum.
Seven: Resurrected Nictis. Town.
Cyricubed: I think Cyri's been pretty consistent overall, and I don't see Cyri making any inexplicable moves. Lean town.
Zaealix: CC'd by a dead person while also having no actionable info whatsoever. Scum.
NemoMarx: Townie reasoning for wanting to take me off the table today, and also just generally been townie. Town.
Scia: I can't think of a single reason why Scia is supposed to be townie, personally.
Shalmoa: If you think I'm openwolfing here, good on you. I'm not. I'm just town.
So:
Town Core: Nemo, Seven
Probably town: -Rosen, Cyri
Probably not town: Scia
Definitely not town: Zone, Zaea
IMO.
Fight me on these ones.
Zone Q11
Monochrome Plebeian
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Not sure what you're trying to say here. Perhaps my brain are still fried.
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You at one point earlier essentially claimed me as being scum because I haven't been shot yet despite massive thread control.
Point A: What thread control? Every vote I've pushed has been sidetracked into me self-pres voting.
Point B: Why the hell would the mafia shoot someone so controversial?
Nictis
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The Mafia. Zaealix claimed to have been roleblocked N1 but nobody else reported getting roleblocked.
Zone Q11
Monochrome Plebeian
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Point A is actually funny. In each and every case when you have been pushed around, you were never the actual target in the end.
D1 Shadell and Hugh got the heat at EOD. I started Shadell's wagon, which Nictis and Rosen joined before the triple that is Hugh/Kingster/you joined to firmly execute Shadell. Meanwhile, Hugh's wagon started with you/Ori/Kingster, except you and Kingster left for Shadell while Nemo and Cyri voted Hugh last minute. Your wagon, which consisted of Zaea/Hugh/IH, got naturally dissolved after IH unvoted and Hugh switched. (...huh. In hindsight that is rather interesting. Only Zaealix remained on your wagon. That doesn't sound W/W.)
D2 was a time when everything started going downhill because as of P#686 there were 5 two-player wagons, and then 5 people (Cyri/Nictis/Rosen/you/Seven) suddenly pushed Hugh to death. Cyri voted Hugh because of scumread. Rosen voted Hugh immediately after getting Nictis to vote for Hugh. You voted for "self-pres". Seven voted for role claim. Afterwards, after minutes of realizing that Hugh is dead, your first reaction was not "let's not vote hastily" or "something is wrong", but instead:
By D3, you were actually tied with Zaealix with 3 votes as of P#867, but then Cyri switched to Zaealix. Afterwards Seven proposed to vote Sleep, which caused all Zaealix voters (barring Cyri) and Nemo and I to vote for sleep. The only ones who kept voting you were the people who were not present at EOD3.
And now... Now you are not even on the table. You ask why Mafia would ever shoot someone so controversial, but "they" have succeeded in making me believe that you are part of them. I can't think of a reason why you're town. If you're a scapegoat, then you're just that good of a scapegoat to be left alive.
Zone Q11
Monochrome Plebeian
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Hammer how? Cyri and Nictis are believers of "do not vote until everyone has spoken" and your vote would only set Zaealix to L-2; anyone who votes afterwards are just scum.
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Ah, yes, because the most certain way to ensure that nothing goes wrong is to enable things to go wrong. /s
Nictis
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Well... yeah? That's how scapegoats are used. All the time and focus spent on the one person is time and focus and discussion angles not focused on, say, you and Rosen both specifically going for Shalmoa in the Hugh/Shalmoa showdown for seemingly no actual reason.
If you think that Shalmoa is scum then you'd probably be most interested in figuring out who it is that encourages the pivots away from them since they don't want Shalmoa dead, and if you think that Shalmoa is being kept around as a scapegoat you want to look at the same for who wants to keep the focus on Shalmoa all game.
Why shoot someone you can safely vote at any time and will keep the general town focus stuck?
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Basically all that happens there is the scum team sacrifices Zaealix with a self-vote and Scia takes the other vote, and then we're left arguing between you and -Rosen and me after we vote out Scia tomorrow. It's entirely possible to get to that scenario with a town!Scia too, although I feel it would be unlikely, just from Scia feeling pressured that she needs to put down a vote and then voting without realizing it'll lead to an information denying self-hammer.
Zone Q11
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Pretty much what I thought when I was voting myself.
*looks at SOD4 post*
Define "can safely vote at any time".
Hah? But that would be...
D1 - Zone/Nictis/Rosen/Hugh/Kingster/Shalmoa
D2 - Scia/Nemo/Cyri/Nictis/Rosen/Shalmoa/Seven
D3 - Unclear because of Seven wanting to use his role
Like, I can't do anything with this. Scia and Nemo are UTR; Shalmoa/Rosen is a thing that has been happening since D2 but never got resolved; and Cyri is the one who started pushing for Zaealix.
If you're town, then we have already lost. My vote is locked on you after today. I ain't changing my mind.
(Well, technically another town needs to vote you in order to definitely lose in this world, but otherwise the best that town could do is form a tie and pray that whoever is on the other wagon gets executed.)
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wonderful
no interaction with my reads
no consideration of circumstance or mindset
just a tunnel
Figured you were a stronger townie than that. Get good. Find my "partners". Kill one of them today.
Zone Q11
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Not in the mood tbh.
I mean, aren't we already deadset on Zaealix today anyway?
Talk all you want; it's not as if anything will change when it comes to who will die.
The only way you can change it is by pushing me to death.
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Like I'm in the mood for this either. Take it or leave it.
I mean, I'm all for it, especially if it's more likely to get town an actual win that sitting on a zero info Zaea vote.
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[x] Vote Zone Q11
Not hunting, Zone's PoE is too small. No investigation towards some UTRs, significant investigation towards others. Inconsistent application of standards to Kingster and IH. Good enough to find Shadell as a reasonable sus target D1, not good enough to find even one reason I might be townie after Nictis and Comi spelled out multiple such reasons. Opportunistic, not hunting.
Enough is enough. You're too good a player to be tunneling me hard enough to say "I don't care if you're actually town, I'm going to vote you tomorrow anyways" when we haven't eliminated a single mafia yet.
Not hunting, Zone's PoE is too small. No investigation towards some UTRs, significant investigation towards others. Inconsistent application of standards to Kingster and IH. Good enough to find Shadell as a reasonable sus target D1, not good enough to find even one reason I might be townie after Nictis and Comi spelled out multiple such reasons. Opportunistic, not hunting.
Enough is enough. You're too good a player to be tunneling me hard enough to say "I don't care if you're actually town, I'm going to vote you tomorrow anyways" when we haven't eliminated a single mafia yet.
Nictis
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Really? Nothing you can get from it? And Day 3 is just inconclusive because of Seven wanting to use the ability to bring me back to life? Are you forgetting that the wagons were between Shalmoa and Zaealix before that? And the only person voting outside of that was you?
