Leaning Perimeter + leave Seele and Vel alone for first impressions. It isn't so much that I'm afraid Roza and Lili can't handle themselves and more I'm not confident that we don't see enough of the horde isn't pulled away to still be a very serious problem for the village, defeating the entire purpose of the strategy. As for Seele... they'd totally be interrupting something. How long/much of an effort is it to contact her? Is it plausible to leave her be for now but if things start going bad/unexpected to hit the panic button? Or would it be too late at that point and trying to contact her would just be putting Rubia in danger by diverting her attention? I mean, the obvious downside is that if it comes to that not only would it be an interruption it'd be an interruption with very bad news. I mean, not that it isn't bad news now but it's... expected bad news?
Seele Vollerei: The end of reality, and what came after.
- Thread starter Baughn
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Ruby clearly believes she can contact her.
In practice, that's... somewhat iffy. Seele is the only person around whose mind Ruby cannot read, and Seele's best guess is she can't send a complex message either. You might not want to have her working around that in the middle of combat.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Eh...wat?
Aren't we voting on if we want to get Seele back right now? Seems rather the opposite of being in combat.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
We are. I'm commenting on the plausibility of a panic button.
I would think drawing the horde away would be a good idea, but I'm not sure of how that's actually going to go. As in, how are they supposed to get the attention of every single one of them and present themselves as a target that's more appealing to take on than the village? If it's like honkai beasts being attracted to honkai energy, I think there are options. Does Rubia's powers work on the creatures? Might help if it did, although I don't know how wide her range is. What else is within her powers, anyway?
While I'm kind of on the fence about having Roza and Lili be the target of the horde, I think it's better than the village being collateral. There is the possibility that some of them break off from the horde and don't follow the twins trying to distract them, but that might be okay if Rubia is around. The people living here aren't completely helpless if they've survived long enough that this place has any semblance of civilization. Roza and Lili are also capable themselves, but against a whole lot of enemies, I think there needs to be something other than just running away from the village.
I don't think it's a good idea to disturb Seele right now, but I still really want the doom-snek and the twins to meet. Even more so now, I think. Do I feel that it's a good idea? Not really! I just think it'd be interesting.
It's okay for Rubia to try reaching out to Seele, even if she fails, but I don't know if it would be a good thing if she does manage to interrupt. It'd be better to try while the horde isn't here, but how helpful is having Seele and Vel at the moment? Well, obviously more people who can fight, but besides that. Seele made a comment about being able to wipe them out if she didn't mind altering the landscape a bit, so I guess that's one possible outcome for a panic button? I don't doubt her, but that's probably some last resort type of thing. Do the others even think she can be of much help if they do get into contact with Seele? Like, panic button level of help?
While I'm kind of on the fence about having Roza and Lili be the target of the horde, I think it's better than the village being collateral. There is the possibility that some of them break off from the horde and don't follow the twins trying to distract them, but that might be okay if Rubia is around. The people living here aren't completely helpless if they've survived long enough that this place has any semblance of civilization. Roza and Lili are also capable themselves, but against a whole lot of enemies, I think there needs to be something other than just running away from the village.
I don't think it's a good idea to disturb Seele right now, but I still really want the doom-snek and the twins to meet. Even more so now, I think. Do I feel that it's a good idea? Not really! I just think it'd be interesting.
It's okay for Rubia to try reaching out to Seele, even if she fails, but I don't know if it would be a good thing if she does manage to interrupt. It'd be better to try while the horde isn't here, but how helpful is having Seele and Vel at the moment? Well, obviously more people who can fight, but besides that. Seele made a comment about being able to wipe them out if she didn't mind altering the landscape a bit, so I guess that's one possible outcome for a panic button? I don't doubt her, but that's probably some last resort type of thing. Do the others even think she can be of much help if they do get into contact with Seele? Like, panic button level of help?
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
I can't give you the answers to most of these. You'll have to think; as usual I'll accept any decent reasoning. Better is, of course, ...better.
But as for Rubia, yes, they do. Her power works on anything that's sentient; she's called the Herrscher of Sentience for a reason. Not sapience. It underlies and underpins even the patterns that make up souls.
Last Roza checked, her range was a few hundred meters. That was years ago though...
I have no trouble at all with you guys voting for something because it'll be interesting.
Really, the question here is whether you want that story or not.
Seele said she can wipe out a mountain range. This is orders of magnitude beyond what she'd have been capable of in reality, but the twins trust her implicitly. If she's said she can do it, then she can do it. ...doesn't make it a good idea!
Her biggest concern is, in fact, not accidentally destabilising reality while she does it. We've more or less been over this in the past, so... right now, Seele is interacting with the world by way of an avatar. That avatar has biology; she can eat, sleep, all of that, though her mind isn't there.
If it's destroyed, or if she just gets frantic enough...
You get Tonatiuh instead.
Except, since this is real life and not a game, about ten times larger and shredding reality around her. Normally she's heavily restricted by the walls of whatever reality she's in, but this bubble universe isn't capable of resisting her movements. The biggest worry she'd have isn't destroying the Honkai—it's ensuring anything else at all survives.
There was one or two events like this one back in the actual Quantum Sea arc, in canon. In those events, when Seele wanted to leave, those universes went away.
Right now that's a problem.
<Seele> Will it blend?
<Veliona> With this much scythe? Absolutely.
And also, Seele is a blender.
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[X] [Strategy] Establish a perimeter around the village
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
As always, feel free (and encouraged!) to bop me on the head if you think any of those votes are terrible, terrible mistakes because I have no idea what I'm doing. My general view on approaching the battle is about the same - like Roza says, lots of ways this could go wrong, but I still am uneasy about Roza and Lili being able to draw off everything. I get the distinct impression that even one or two staying on course for the village would wipe it out. Well, not literally since I assume Rubia could handle that but you know what I mean.
Consider me... intrigued... by the potential interesting scenario of Roza and Lili encountering snek but... I don't think having Rubia check in on Seele would do that? Also probably not the best time for it. This definitely feels like a vote I may regret if the battle goes poorly (which is another point to having the twins stay near potential help in Rubia IMO) but this is the kind of vote where depending on what happens I'd probably regret the vote no matter what lol.
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
As always, feel free (and encouraged!) to bop me on the head if you think any of those votes are terrible, terrible mistakes because I have no idea what I'm doing. My general view on approaching the battle is about the same - like Roza says, lots of ways this could go wrong, but I still am uneasy about Roza and Lili being able to draw off everything. I get the distinct impression that even one or two staying on course for the village would wipe it out. Well, not literally since I assume Rubia could handle that but you know what I mean.
Consider me... intrigued... by the potential interesting scenario of Roza and Lili encountering snek but... I don't think having Rubia check in on Seele would do that? Also probably not the best time for it. This definitely feels like a vote I may regret if the battle goes poorly (which is another point to having the twins stay near potential help in Rubia IMO) but this is the kind of vote where depending on what happens I'd probably regret the vote no matter what lol.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
I have some doubts about my AI, sometimes. Case in point:
Double point:
...still, sometimes it writes something really nice. This, for instance...
Because... the AI knows Roza.
Double point:
...still, sometimes it writes something really nice. This, for instance...
Because... the AI knows Roza.
So what's the difference with Couatl and Tonatiuh anyway? Or the difference between those and other quantum shadows? Well, I mean, obviously the first two are bosses but, is there any particular reason for Tonatiuh in particular?
That's quite an image... Terrifying, honestly. Since Einstein has worked with Seele quite a bit, is she aware of all of this? Or rather, what does she know related to what Seele can do? Theories, or has she seen it in practice?
Hmm... not now, but if a situation comes up that warrants it? I kind of do want to see something like that happen. Right now wouldn't make sense. It doesn't feel like there's enough incentive for Seele to even try doing that. Herrschers are the ones that would enjoy doing something like that on the regular, usually. Rescue missions don't really need world ruining powers.
So, if Rubia's powers work on the creatures, is it possible to try to blanket the village in some kind of illusion, or cause a good chunk of the horde to enter a dreamscape? The fenghuang down that Fu Hua used happen to have the power to put everyone in the MOTH base asleep when the herrscher of corruption infected everyone, so I assume Rubia, having a functioning core rather than a divine key would be able to do something like this.
For the vote, I'm not sure if looking for hints for how to proceed with the battle is okay? I was thinking there could be a possibility of psychological warfare with the power of sentience, but then again, I don't really know how her powers work enough that this is an option.
[x] [Strategy] Draw the horde away from the village
-Ask Rubia to look into the minds of the creatures for possible insight for the battle
-Rubia stays behind to defend the place
[x] [Seele] Ask Rubia to check on them
[x] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Given that Rubia blanketed an entire mountain with her range shortly after birth I feel like you might not be giving her sufficient credit.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Hmm, possibly not. I'm not sure how much of that distance was real, and how much was illusionary movement and/or Rubia sticking close to the people she wanted interaction with; we didn't get that perspective, only Ruby's childish attempt at emulating a xianxia protagonist. Sure, there were awesome distances and truly enormous swords involved, but...
I feel they were that way just because it looked awesome, y'know? Ruby was that sort of kid. And, I have to stress—she's still that sort of kid. She's older than Seele, but that still makes her a teenager.
Regardless, she's definitely better at it now than she was at the time.
I thought Tonatiuh looked more impressive.
In reality, obviously, neither one of those is Seele; but we've also never seen Seele going truly all-out in canon. When Veliona did, that was mostly off-screen and focused on escaping a Herrscher. Which... she succeeded at. That's honestly impressive enough in itself.
Seele isn't human, but in canon she hasn't (yet) leaned into that. Instead she's focusing on hitting things with a scythe. Veliona is the one who's also delved into matters such as, oh, manifesting huge claws, or tentacled pools of darkness—but that's because she thinks it's cool, not necessarily because it's the most effective way to fight.
Canon Seele is chronologically fifteen years old. Mentally, closer to twelve. Vel isn't really any better off. The Seele in this story has had three more years to develop; that matters a great deal, at the rate of escalation HI3 is stuck at.
The video link was more to give you an idea of how it might look, visually. The disconnected parts aren't really disconnected; Seele is just multidimensional.
Theory and practice. Einstein's tutoring is the main difference from canon, although... I was amused to find that Seele and Einstein turned out to spend a lot of time together in canon as well. That hadn't been established by the time I started this story, so we'll see where it goes.
If Einstein gives it a little thought, she'll realize what Seele is likely capable of here. It isn't going to frighten her; she knows the girl quite well. Well, you saw how Rubia described her to Linda.
You can assume that Ruby will be capable of fooling a large number of Honkai beasts into avoiding the village, and to kill the ones that don't.
You can also assume this won't in itself be enough.
= = =
EDIT: There have been edits.
On a sidenote, the next update is about ready to post; the one with Seele. I can't finish it before this vote is closed, though.
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*raises finger* ... *lowers finger* Fair. Though specific manifestation would probably be some kind of nightmare butterfly (swarm?) or something.
At least for Seele, Vel would likely still be a blanket of shadow claws and tentacles scouring the bubble to its... does the word bedrock apply here?
I'd posit its perception based and lean towards the more powerful interpretation. What I mean is she targets That Mountain (Range) or That City or something.
She was also born a Herrscher, I would guess she's even more of a natural with her power than Sirin, and the Honkai loved Sirin.
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
I think SAB has the right of it here, honestly. Rubia wasn't sticking around by Kiana. She was waiting at the centre of the illusion. And we know from that chapter that Fu Hua (who had far less range) was capable of blanketing the entire mountain with defence systems. Rubia at birth was a match for her. Rubia now...well.
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Ehh... Fu Hua has experience and nigh on enlightenment while Hua is a person born from Honkai itself and Fu Hua's memories.
Hua has an instinct for it Fu Hua doesn't, but kids take a while to develop things like object permanence. Not exactly sure what the equivalent would be with the Core doing the heavy lifting and her sheer talent, but... Eh.
- Location
- Wingmaiden's Reach, the Near Roofs, Town
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think Snekmeet-and-greets are probably more of a post-battle thing, honestly? I mean I guess we'll see how the ongoing Snekparty is going next doot, but I don't think anyone involved is going anywhere. Plenty of time.
...unless everything explodes and ends in fire and recriminations but I'm optimistic?
anyway
Considering that, in general, this isn't really the sort of quest where we weigh tactical outcomes and math out spreadsheets with percentage chances of Bad Things happening or whatever ...
...I guess this is mostly asking... what sort of scenes and consequences we'd like?
So, like - if Roza and Lils draw the horde away, then the fite is constructed as a sort of running skirmish thing; and the potential consequences are, well, Roza and Lils being trapped and possibly injured behind the lines of a horde of Honkai beasts
Forming a perimeter is, I would imagine, sort of like playing whack-a-mole on any Honkai formations that move in on the village, with 'consequences' likely taking the form of a breakthrough - some number of beasties slipping past the net to ravage the village.
Holding at the walls is, well, holding the walls. They are not impressive walls, not exactly "they will break on this fortress like water on rock" kinda walls; but maybe they're enough? Consequences here - breaches; getting pinned between a rock and a hard place; freaking the villagers the fuck out
I guess?
Look I'm not a military strategist nor an expert on reading Baughn's mind or predicting the output of Novelai. Just guesses here.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Pretty much nailed it.
I'd give it a 50/50 chance of 'consequences', either way. And no, the twins being seriously hurt isn't one of the options on the table here... well, depending on how you see it. You've been largely ignoring Roza's worries. Granted, there's a lot else going on right now, and it seems like it can wait so..?
Snowfire
Polyglot of Chimera
- Location
- Wordcats
Rubia: Hold my tea *cracks knuckles*
I think the Dual Ego cutscene comes close to Seele doing something like that. She forcibly made a path to the Sea of Quanta through sheer willpower and the desire to see Bronya again. Then again, some of the stuff could just be artistic license. Personally, I don't think it is, because it's cooler that way.
When Veliona took over, it turned from "Seele is stuck in a closed space full of puppets" to "The puppets are stuck with Seele in a closed space". That, and she also broke out of said space too. Veliona's body count while in the legion theater is pretty high. Not that I mind, the puppets were starting to get really irritating. (In a good way)
I think that's more terrifying compared to a huge quantum shadow. Butterflies don't usually pose a very lethal threat even in huge swarms in my experience of walking though a bunch of them.
But uh, maybe it's a good thing they prefer dead bodies instead of live or something? I heard they do.
Sigh
Habit, I guess. Oops. It feels natural to want to pick the "best" option that leads to success, which ends up with me thinking about the choices like that. Thanks for the reminder though. I'll try my best to keep it in mind. I think I can still go with my votes though. There is danger to Roza and Lili, but I want to see the two handle that conflict, if that makes sense? I also don't think it's likely that Rubia will be able to contact Seele, but trying is different than not doing it at all. Plus, Rubia seems somewhat confident in trying to call out someone she can't even get a read on. It would be neat to see her try that.
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Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
She could do that, but it would be something she does because it's pretty and she's in a horrendous mood, and feels up to seeing someone being eaten by a swarm of butterflies that's also her. Yes, she has proprioception through those.
Those are all holograms. Her human body is an avatar. She can pick and choose how she wants to look, but only so long as she doesn't use her real body…
If she feels the need to pull out all the stops, then she'd be using her real body. Which, on the one hand, leaves her open to being hurt in turn; but on the other hand, Tonatiuh.
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- Location
- Wingmaiden's Reach, the Near Roofs, Town
- Pronouns
- She/Her
seriously do not know what sort of weird perception filter is on this quest that makes it easy to forget to vote for
[X] [Strategy] Draw the horde away from the village
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
[X] [Strategy] Draw the horde away from the village
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
[X] [Strategy] Establish a perimeter around the village
[X] [Seele] Ask Rubia to check on them
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
[X] [Seele] Ask Rubia to check on them
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
thelordofmango
may be stupid
- Location
- under a rock
[X] [Strategy] Draw the horde away from the village
[X] [Seele] Ask Rubia to check on them
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
[X] [Seele] Ask Rubia to check on them
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
- Location
- Internet
[X] [Strategy] Draw the horde away from the village
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
[X] [Seele] Leave the two of them alone
[X] [Narrative] Focus on specific interesting events
Vote closed