I mean it honestly depends on if someone is willing to speak up and defend Keras and if no one does then they're kinda screwed. Like it's possible the Abidan just go the imprison, interrogate, pressgang, monitor route but that would be them being lenient. Though Keras not knowing about the laws would 100% be a great defense along with Keras technically being counted as the "victim". But thing is Keras absolutely does care about Etaja and has some loyalty as a friend to them which is a factor that would be considered, sure Etaja is one of the more chill and good members of the Vroshir but they're still and established member.
Rock the Cradle: A cultivation story
- Thread starter VagueZ
- Start date
- Fantasy Action
I never got the impression that the Abidan are particularly good. They are the government of the 1000 or so closest iterations. Iterations seem to be universes consisting of only one relevant world, likely inspired by Norse stories of Yggdrasil and the 9 realms. The primary criteria for membership in the Abidan is strength with only a mild requirement to be vaguely willing to cooperate but some willingness to punish non-compliance.
As an organization they not only permit worlds like Cradle where might make right but consider it to be one of their most valuable iterations, which I think tells us a lot about their values.
The Abidan ruling council is made up of judges, who are mostly just the strongest people in their specialty. The only Judge who gets more than a paragraph of description I'd be willing to characterize as good is Suriel. For me, The Hound comes across more like Judge Dredd than anyone I would be happy seeing in a position of authority.
The books are largely told from the perspective of Abidan members, so it's easy to think of them as the "good guys" but we never get an unbiased image of what they are and do. Nor are the motivations of most of their opponents clear. The Vroshir in the books are one of many groups that are talked about almost exclusively as opponents to the Abidan.
As an organization they not only permit worlds like Cradle where might make right but consider it to be one of their most valuable iterations, which I think tells us a lot about their values.
The Abidan ruling council is made up of judges, who are mostly just the strongest people in their specialty. The only Judge who gets more than a paragraph of description I'd be willing to characterize as good is Suriel. For me, The Hound comes across more like Judge Dredd than anyone I would be happy seeing in a position of authority.
The books are largely told from the perspective of Abidan members, so it's easy to think of them as the "good guys" but we never get an unbiased image of what they are and do. Nor are the motivations of most of their opponents clear. The Vroshir in the books are one of many groups that are talked about almost exclusively as opponents to the Abidan.
Oh yeah they're not good guys they're the Order side that does a lot of Greater Good but isn't really Good themselves as an organization.
Though for the strength requirement there are people who join the Abidan who aren't super strong, just as family and retainers of Abidan members as well as other people, it's just that the strong people are recruited from non Abidan Iterations and are able to realm travel on their own.
Yeah some of their memebers are really assholes, do horrible stuff and are selfish as hell. It's just that those people are a lot more restrained due to the Pact and their position then the Vroshir are.
Oh yeah the books are 100% biased and don't cover their darker aspects as in depth. And we only really got to the see villainous side of the Vroshir. I'm hoping that Keras will be able to see the side of the Vroshir that isn't just about being evil or opposing the Abidan.
Also just making some ideas up but there's multiple positions or types of skillsets I see keras developing based off Abidan roles. There's Ghost, Wolf, and Phoenix, Ghost because of Death and life stuff, wolf because of combat stuff, Phoenix because of healing. But I'm pretty sure Keras is going to sign up with the Vroshir due to their connections with Etaja, so they won't be joining any Abidan divisions and the Vroshir is independent enough they wouldn't have the exact some stuff for all that they have factions. I do think that Etaja is one of the more independent members of the Vroshir from the impression I've gotten from him.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It heavily depends on what you mean by 'good'. The Abidan's mission statement seems to be keeping godlike beings from messing with worlds and limiting mass casualty events as much as possible. They generally don't interfere in how specific iterations are run (no matter how awful) and certainly are willing to do very bad things, but the core mission seems to be...relatively benevolent, if in a somewhat paternalistic and controlling manner.
Like...is that 'good'? Really kind of a definitional question.
- Location
- USA
It's worth noting that we've only seen like, 10 worlds total. Cradle, the Elder Empire world, the Traveler's Gate world, and the Last Horizon world. (OK Last Horizon actually has a lot of worlds, but it's all one Iteration.) And the Cradle series gives us a few glimpses of other Abidan worlds.
While the no-intervention policy is pretty bad for the worlds we have seen, the Abidan control a lot of worlds. It's decent odds that there's a puppies and ice cream world we've simply never visited because Will can't tell a good story there.
While the no-intervention policy is pretty bad for the worlds we have seen, the Abidan control a lot of worlds. It's decent odds that there's a puppies and ice cream world we've simply never visited because Will can't tell a good story there.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This is exactly what I intended this to be. Etaja occasionally clams up about stuff and tries to avoid giving Keras anything that would make them culpable within the Abidan's rules. If Keras ascends to meet the Abidan and nothing has changed about Keras and Etaja's connection between here and then, Keras would get a stern talking-to that stuck to Abidan views and they would not be widely trusted until and unless that trust was earned, but right now Keras hasn't done anything they would see as illegal. Keras hasn't learned any outside-Cradle tricks (and Etaja has refused to teach any), hasn't bent fate in any unapproved manner, etc.
Keras isn't a criminal to them. The Abidan would judge Keras' choice of friends, but having a criminal friend isn't itself a problem.
I'm trying to give the Vroshir, through Etaja, a sympathetic portrayal, but that doesn't need me to flanderize the Abidan to be worse than they're presented in canon. The Abidan are not perfect, or even wholly benevolent, and the canon books have a very major bit about an effort to reform the Abidan, but they're generally a positive force.
- Pronouns
- He
Maybe the Dreadgod's arrival could change that. They'd be pretty good to have.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Been rereading and I'm not sure what's more surprising: that Ju Dao's likely part of the anti-royalist conspiracy or that Cheng thinks we're a teenager.
- Location
- USA
I don't think Ju Dao is. The Brightflare Elder who we know is (due to the conspiracy POV interlude) mentions he wants to be a deniable asset who can be cast off if his role comes to light. Stars below is a fairly common curse, it's the other passwords that would be suspicious.
Cheng, on the other hand, is kind of hilarious. How little does he interact with kids that he thinks an 11-year-old is 16? Does he think Keras is just a really tiny teenager?
I mean Cheng makes perfect sense. Either its part of the performative eccetnricity he uses to stay out of politics, or it's part of his actuall deep disintrest in anythibg but alchemy and just thinks Keras is short for their age
- Location
- Massachusetts
Well they haven't demonstrated any outside-Cradle tricks, but they're nosy and clever, so I'm still half expecting them to have memorized some of the seaweed scripts or to try to paint a heart scape at some point in the future. They're not always best at leaving well enough alone
The core mission is benevolent and they're not really tyrants for the worlds that they do rule. I'd say as a faction they have more postive actions on a whole then negative and that cosmically it adds up to them doing a lot of good, but that the people who work for the Abidan and are in charge of it aren't particularly inclined towards good.
Most worlds are like that and would be considered death worlds by earth standards, not all of them of course by most of them. I remeber reading something about that on the blog but can't access it right now. But there are likely worlds that arne't horrible or death worlds around and the Abidan likely are the people in charge of that, though I can see some Vroshir turning their worlds into a better place.
They did try to improve the status quo but yeah after that failed they pretty much gave up. Though to be fair the failure of it was massive so I can see why they didn't want repeats.
So basically Etaja is being a bro and making sure that Keras isn't breaking any rules even by accident. Having Etaja as a friend is shady as hell but isn't illegal in of itself. He's basically letting Keras grow until they have the context to make the decision for themselves in an informed manner.
Etaja has been helping Keras learn how to do Cradle stuff better both to learn how Cradle powers works and to help Keras but that isn't something that constitutes rule breaking on Keras's end.
The Abidan is shown to have it's good and bad sides in canon, while pretty much only the Vroshir's bad side was shown so seeing teh sympathetic side of the Vroshir would be interesting.
Depending on how that goes it could motivate Keras to want to become powerful enough to do something about it and it could change Etaja's stance on things, but Etaja's willingness to teach would be the biggest factor.
Ju Dao is aligned with someone who's part of the conspiracy but not part of it themselves.
Cheng is just out here being a total scatterbrain for anything that isn't alchemy. I think that Cheng likes Keras because Keras is kinda like himself, someone who's completely uninterested in power struggles, politic or stuff like that and is someone that just wants to learn and focus on their arts.
This was Keras's reaction to learning that Cheng was making the Heaven's Facade for the sake of creation, sure there was the inital oh Cheng is trying to get to Overlord but after that when Chen explained, Keras understood it. They have the same hunger and curiosity.
Yeah we've seen a bit of the outside of Cradle tricks and I imagine that Keras could try to make something like it, but they likely wouldn't without Etaja's permission because they value their friendship. But long term I can't see Keras ignoring the abilities of other iterations because they're just to curious.Well they haven't demonstrated any outside-Cradle tricks, but they're nosy and clever, so I'm still half expecting them to have memorized some of the seaweed scripts or to try to paint a heart scape at some point in the future. They're not always best at leaving well enough alone
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
It would be if this was an MTG crossover.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Cheng's kind of forgotten what it's like to be under 45, and he sees no reason to try to recall. He's guessed Keras' age as:
- Four, in Soulfire dissected (Keras turned 9 the next day)
- Twelve, in A refiner's mansion explored (actually 9)
- Nine, in A brush with genius (actually 9, but Cheng corrected himself to "I forget")
- Seventeen-ish in The Underlord's favorite toy (actually 10)
If you strategically do a task badly enough, sometimes you aren't asked to do it again. This can include social niceties.
How old is Cheng? Also man Cheng is really bad with telling ages.
What a legend, you gotta respect that level of plotting.
I do not want to advance (non-canon)
- Location
- Massachusetts
You feel something trembling in the air, and Cheng's eyes widen in a look of horror that's almost alien on his normally bored, annoyed face. "No. No, no, no, that's not right," he says, haunted.
Unconsciously your hands move to your axe at your side, not that you stand a chance of lasting a fraction of a second against something that could threaten Cheng. <<Etaja?>> You think. You try to scan for what could be worrying your boss, but all your sense returns is a feeling of...Cheng himself.
<<...You're fine, kid, I think I know what happened.>>
"No. That doesn't count! That's not fair!" Cheng shouts at the air. But to your senses, something is stirring within him. Something beyond your ability to truly comprehend... but you've felt it before. When you made an off-handed, but knowing, comment to the Margavine.
<<Is this related to Soulfire?>> you ask through your connection.
<<Yeah. Remember that you get to Underlord by accepting a fundamental truth about your past. No world's energy system is exactly alike, but they do tend to follow certain rules... certain patterns... so it's no surprise that Cradle's Lords follow a sytematic procession too. Past for Underlord, then present, and probably something about your future for the final step.>>
"I. Do. Not. Want. To. Advance!" Cheng grinds out. Contrary to his words, his soulfire surges even brighter.
<<So, his revelation to advance to Overlord...?>>
<<Was how little he wanted to advance to Overlord. Kinda funny, isn't it?>>
Though you are sympathetic to the powerful man ranting and raving at the heavens, you have to admit... <<Yeah, it kinda is.>>
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Honestly of all the Sacred Artist that we've seen in the quest, Cheng is my favorite, he's just a man following his passions. He's not power hungry like other people, he doesn't use the Sacred Arts as a means to an end but an end unto itself, he just loves learning and practicing his craft.
Cheng has a curiosity and hunger to him that I feel like Keras also has and for all that Cheng doesn't really get people he's a role model for a Sacred Artist that unabashedly does what they love. I'm interested in exploring Keras being Cheng's assistant more and looking forward to them learning all that they can from him.
Cheng has a curiosity and hunger to him that I feel like Keras also has and for all that Cheng doesn't really get people he's a role model for a Sacred Artist that unabashedly does what they love. I'm interested in exploring Keras being Cheng's assistant more and looking forward to them learning all that they can from him.
Ferb_Ancos
The one under the table
- Pronouns
- He
Okay, Keras has:
- 2 Ruler techniques
- Verdant Valley (Life - Mastered)
- Dessicated Valley (Life/Death - Basic)
- 1 Enforcer technique
- Field's Strength (Life/Dream - Mastered)
- 1 Forger technique
- Clinging Vines (Life/Death - Advanced)
- 1 Striker technique
- Dandelion Rain (Mix Forger) (Life - Basic)
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Ruler and Forger techniques are Keras's speciality due to the Saint Iron Body, with 2 Ruler and 1.5 Forger. The idea to make a Forger move to create a weapon is a good one, maybe we can make a weapon that's absurdly lethal and focuses on damaging lifeline and energy. But my concern for such a thing is that we'd be stretching Keras's learning rather think given they'd need to learn 6 techniques but learning that technique and maybe even a dedicated healing technique would be worth it, but it would make learning tricker.
- Location
- USA
I'm having trouble thinking of what we should do for Forger. We could copy Miera's Forged scythe for a lifeline attack (ideally copy our axe so we can swap between the two easily), or try and make a Life/Death Forged weapon that's really nasty.
I'm pretty fine with Verdant Valley for healing actually. We can see from Bosc's usage that you can be very precise and targeted, even if it's a Ruler technique.
Really our technique library is pretty good. Desiccated for AOE disruption, Field's Strength for a boost (though ideally we find a way to boost speed), and we want to get Clinging and Dandelion a lot stronger to be better at restraining and actually hurting people with our Striker attack.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Field's Strength boosts speed now. That was the main mechanical benefit of folding Dream into it.