So like I said she heard Sauron Propaganda and then Aragorn propaganda. And of course she's going to believe the Sauron propaganda because she's a Sauron loyalist. As far as she's concerned all she's hearing from Gondor is the officially sanctioned story that the King's council came up with.
Relics of the Third Age: A Lord of the Rings Quest
- Thread starter Chengar Qordath
- Start date
- Fantasy
So like I said she heard Sauron Propaganda and then Aragorn propaganda. And of course she's going to believe the Sauron propaganda because she's a Sauron loyalist. As far as she's concerned all she's hearing from Gondor is the officially sanctioned story that the King's council came up with.
I think the Woses had been displaced by the people the Numenoreans merged with, not the Numenoreans themselves. The Unfinished Tales mentioned them being pushed out of their homes by people migrating from the east. (Edit: I also found passages pointing to their dwindling as coinciding with Numenorean colonization, but Of Dwarves and Men and The Rivers and Beacon-Hills both point to the Numenoreans coming in contact with taller men, not Druedain.) Appendix F mentioned that when Isildur and Anarion came to Gondor, they found a land inhabited by people who were friendly to them. There were 'pure-blooded' Dunedain among them and many had mixed heritage. Few of the inhabitants of what would be Gondor spoke Sindarin, seemingly even in the wholy Numenorean families. But the Dunedain were a small ethnic elite among the vaster numbers of middle men who made the majority of the population. That account is similar to The Rivers and Beacon-hills of Gondor, it says that many of the colonists didn't speak Sindarin that well so many of the names they gave to the region were grammatically incorrect.
A lot of the racism part of the Kin-strife probably came from the nobility, who I think would have still been mostly Dunedain by this point. It was mentioned later on that after the Kin-strife many royal 'pure-blooded' who fell under suspicion would take 'lesser' wives to diffuse suspision. So I don't think they had totally merged by that point, or even by the War of the Ring. There probably is still an upper class of Numenorean nobility. Though there seem to have been non-Numenorean nobles, Forlong wasn't a Sindarin name.
His support by the people coasts seems to come from him being a great naval captain, and them thinking that he would pay them greater attention than Eldacar, who was about as far from an admiral as you could get. It's mentioned that Eldacar's army drew from the Dunedain of Anorien, Ithilien, and Calenardhon (and his northmen allies), so it's possible that the Gondor's middle men generally didn't care about the blood purity. I think the irony in Eldacar is supposed to be that he basically lived as long as his father and so did his descendents. Gondor kept to the racism, but the Numenoreans in Umbar were surpassed by the Haradrim.
You said, and I quote, 'on the outskirts of civilization.' Barad-dur is about as from the outskirts of civilization as you could get before it was destroyed. Nurn is on the outskirts, but she isn't going to here pro-Sauron propaganda in Nurn. There were 10 days between the Pelennor Fields and Sauron's death.
Arphazel knows full well that Aragorn did not come to Gondor with an army. Where would he get one? She's complained plenty about Aragorn rebuilding Arnor: she knows his home kingdom didn't exist. 'His' army was of Gondorians he mobilized. She knows full well that Aragorn became King because he convinced the people of Gondor to rally behind him. To call that a conquest is inherently rediculous.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
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- He/Him/His
Sure he did. That said, Arphazel probably doesn't know about the Army of the Dead -- they had been freed of their curse in the Ethir and never came to the Pelennor, and none of the Corsairs they drove to their drowning deaths in the Anduin are talking. If she knew of them Arphazel wpuld no doubt call Elessar a necromancer and a hypocrite for it. Then he picked up another army of Gondorians in Lebennin having captured the fleet. Additionally, some but by no means all of the oarsmen were probably inspired to fight alongside the Grey Company and the men of Lebennin once they landed at Harlond, though none were pressed into service (we probably do not have any of these in our company, though it could puncture our certainty in the virtues of Umbar if we did and had to talk with them).
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Yes the outskirts of civilization part was wrong. That was my bad. But it does give more credence to Arphazel receiving Sauron Propaganda in that time as Sauron had a palantíri so would have known about the events almost immediately. From where rumors would be bound to spread which she would hear being in the seat of power for the enemy.
Like Zimmerwald said Aragorn technically gathered multiple armies to aid with retaking Gondor. And yes we can very easily explain why those armies were not him staging a coup. But Arphazel does not have the insight that we have. She has a total of 2 sources of information. The gossip mill/propaganda at Sauron's capital and the official Gondorian party line. With how she is she's going to believe the Sauron rumor mill every time over anything that comes out of Gondor. Arphazel has character flaws. She's going to be on the wrong side of a lot of arguments.
That's a good point Zimmerwald. I'd dismissed the Army of the Dead because they only fought in two battles, but it was a significant force that Aragorn brought.
I know her initial reports of the battle were from people sympathetic to Sauron. That's when her father died. There is no reason for the events to say that. What happened is very clear, Aragorn defeated the Corsairs, then the men of Gondor captured those ships and used them to travel north. Where does the army come from? Sure, rumors are almost always making stuff up, but there's a limit to that. And there is a limit to how long people will believe obviously false rumors. She knows that Aragorn could not have brought in an army from anywhere. If she heard about the Oathbreakers, she'd know they only served in Linhir and Pelargir. Foreign conquest two battles does not make. How is Aragorn supposed to get an army from Arnor to Linhir, only for this army to never arrive at Minas Tirith? It was the men of Gondor who arrived at the Pelennor.
And yes, I know Nurn would not be the best place to receive rumors, but in this case, the absence of evidence is very much proof against. Gondorians liberated Nurn. She would know if Aragorn had brought an army out of his homeland!
She did not describe Aragorn's coronation as a coup. She described it as conquest. These are two different things. Do not conflate them. (this brings me back to my point of Arphazel having a warped view of conquest)
Edit: Arphazel is more than intelligent enough to not call it a conquest. She is certainly intelligent enough to tell that conspiracy theory to a Gondorian whose father died defending Osgiliath from Sauron's armies. She believed it and told her anyways. Hence why I have been saying she is incredibly biased.
This entire comment is disingenuous. What were my first sentences in this thread? Let's check. "Arphazêl is such a delightful asshole. It's hilarious how deep in denial she is." I know she has character flaws. I was making that point. I have been making that point in just about every comment I have made in this thread since I first commented. Stop telling me things I already know and I have already said.
I know her initial reports of the battle were from people sympathetic to Sauron. That's when her father died. There is no reason for the events to say that. What happened is very clear, Aragorn defeated the Corsairs, then the men of Gondor captured those ships and used them to travel north. Where does the army come from? Sure, rumors are almost always making stuff up, but there's a limit to that. And there is a limit to how long people will believe obviously false rumors. She knows that Aragorn could not have brought in an army from anywhere. If she heard about the Oathbreakers, she'd know they only served in Linhir and Pelargir. Foreign conquest two battles does not make. How is Aragorn supposed to get an army from Arnor to Linhir, only for this army to never arrive at Minas Tirith? It was the men of Gondor who arrived at the Pelennor.
And yes, I know Nurn would not be the best place to receive rumors, but in this case, the absence of evidence is very much proof against. Gondorians liberated Nurn. She would know if Aragorn had brought an army out of his homeland!
She did not describe Aragorn's coronation as a coup. She described it as conquest. These are two different things. Do not conflate them. (this brings me back to my point of Arphazel having a warped view of conquest)
Edit: Arphazel is more than intelligent enough to not call it a conquest. She is certainly intelligent enough to tell that conspiracy theory to a Gondorian whose father died defending Osgiliath from Sauron's armies. She believed it and told her anyways. Hence why I have been saying she is incredibly biased.
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
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At this point we're getting into minutiae that almost certainly do not matter, but the Grey Company (a bit under threescore Arnorian dunedain under Halbarad, and the Sons of Elrond) was present with Aragorn and the men of Lebennin at the Pelennor, and technically Aragorn did insist on being described only as the "captain of the rangers [of the north]" and camping in the field rather than in the city (he came to the Houses of Healing but surreptitiously) until after the Battle of the Morannon. Rumor may have made the Grey Company far larger than it was, or augmented it with hobbitry-in-arms (feeding off the rumors surrounding Peregrin) or elves out of Rivendell. These hosts would be completely imaginary, of course, but being at least foreign they would be far more credibly capable of conquering Gondor than the mostly-Gondorian army Aragorn actually had at the Pelennor.
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When it comes to her perspective on Aragorn claiming the throne of Gondor, Arphazel is definitely starting with her conclusion (Aragorn is an illegitimate usurper) and then working backwards to try and find any evidence or argument that she can use to support it. Not to mention that most of the information she has to work off of is half-remembered Sauron propaganda from when she lived in Barad Dur or rumors passed through dozens of people and gone through several rounds of blurring and exaggeration by the time they make it to Nurn.
Minor point of character voice.
When I wrote the following:
I missed that Arphazel always says Lord Sauron. I didn't feel comfortable editing the post to change things; but, Chengar Qordath, you might want to change it proposed text slightly. Unless you think it flows better if she slips her usual pattern in her discussion with Tirndis.
When I wrote the following:
I missed that Arphazel always says Lord Sauron. I didn't feel comfortable editing the post to change things; but, Chengar Qordath, you might want to change it proposed text slightly. Unless you think it flows better if she slips her usual pattern in her discussion with Tirndis.
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- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
She should, of course, be saying Tar-Mairon -- King Excellent or the Great King. "Lord" is too lowly a title for the King of Men and King of the World (the Mouth consistently called him "the Great" a la Cyrus of Persia or Alexander III of Macedon or Gnaeus Pompeius), and "Sauron" is a derogatory epithet that of his servants only emissaries to foreign lands which would not have recognized or would have quibbled over his right name were permitted to use. It is also that most ghastly of things, a pun.
That Arphazel is saying "Sauron" at all is clearly a translation convention for our benefit. Alternatively, she is, unconsciously, less loyal to him than she thinks.
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- Here
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I do try to stick to one or two names for every character just to keep things clear for everyone. Characters having three or four different names depending on who's talking about them is awesome worldbuilding on Tolkien's part, but I'm not sure I could write that way without it becoming confusing for readers.
Vote closed
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In the middle of moving, so update progress is slow but ongoing.
Pathway to the Relic 6
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The Morgul Vale
I took a long moment to gather my thoughts before answering her. "The people of Nurn, so recently freed from chains, showed kindness to a child in the wilderness. They showed kindness to a woman of the East who had served Sauron as a soldier. For half my life I have served that woman as my captain; served as a page and as a soldier in the defense of those who showed me kindness. The people of Nurn did not ask me to spit on the bones of my father or mother, on the ruins of the past. We are a people of cast-offs and slaves, and as one more exile while my name means little I do not have to hide it. I was sent forth by order of the Council of Nurn so that some manner of the speech and codes I learned from my parents might see me serve Nurn as an Emissary. So was I bade, so I rode out, and so have I done. I serve the Council, my Captain, and the People of Nurn."
I turned to face her. "I was Arphazêl of Umbar and Arphazêl of Mordor, but now I am Arphazêl of Nurn. I do not believe I must completely cast away all that I once was to see that my people now are suffering and I have the power to help them."
"I see." Tirndis glowered at me a few seconds longer before finally relenting. "I still do not care for you, but I can accept that answer. I see little value in honoring a family that fought for a wicked cause, but it would be pointlessly cruel to demand you cast aside your parents' memory as a condition of receiving Gondor's aid. Your thoughts on them now will not change the present reality before us. So long as you refrain from offering further insult to King Elessar and Gondor, I shall consider the matter settled."
Tempting as it was to point out that I was merely speaking truthfully, that was probably not the most diplomatic approach. If I wanted any peaceful cooperation with the Gondorians I would need to bite my tongue. "It is settled, then."
The next several days passed uneventfully. Gondor had already tamed much of Ithilien, and if any Orcs remained in the area they weren't in large enough numbers to dare attack a full platoon of rangers.
Tirndis seemed content to ignore my existence ever since our heated exchange, never speaking to me beyond the most basic necessities of traveling together. The rest of the rangers in our company followed her lead, leaving me mercifully spared from any awkward attempts at exchanging pleasantries with the Gondorians. Faramir and Eowyn had been reasonable enough, but they were clearly an exception from the norm.
Perhaps it was on account of being highborn? Tirndis was noble too, but freshly raised to honor her dead father. Someone who hadn't even been born as a noble wouldn't have the same perspective as someone who came from a long and illustrious bloodline.
As we neared the Morgul Vale I began to find my effective isolation within our party more vexing. Somehow I felt much more alone now than I had crossing the Gorgoroth Plateau with no companions at all. Though perhaps that was the true heart of it; none of these men and women of Gondor were true companions. Or at least not to me, they seemed to enjoy one another's company quite readily. I was confined to the outskirts of our party, not so much a group member as a traveler who simply happened to share their destination.
Ever since coming to Nurn I had always felt somewhat ... apart from my peers. The people of Nurn weren't highborn nobles, most of them were just commoners who had the misfortune of being drafted into Sauron's service.
Misfortune. Drafted. I let myself consider those words in light of everything I'd discussed with Tirndis. Were those words too clean and detached from the reality of what happened in Nurn? I wasn't blind, I knew the people of Nurn had been treated poorly by Sauron's forces. It was that way the world over, was there really that much difference between one of Sauron's slaves, a serf, and a tenant farmer? Such things were just the way of the world.
No matter what I told myself, it sat ill with me. My mother and father never would've lowered themselves to mistreat slaves, but their comrades had. I could hardly deny the whip-scars I'd seen on the backs of many of Nurn's people. I could tell myself that it was how the world functioned, that such cruelty was a necessary part of maintaining order and fueling Mordor's military, but I could not truly accept it. Surely there had to be a better way?
I scowled and tried to shake the thoughts out of my mind. It was all a pointless hypothetical indulgence at the end of the day. I could hardly go back in time and make Mordor a better place than it was. All I could do now was fight for the people of Nurn and try to reverse the cruelty and injustice before me. Despite what Tirndis might claim, wanting to honor the legacy of my long and proud heritage did not mean I would have abused or mistreated slaves. If anything, I would have used my position within Sauron's ranks to advocate for them and worked to find a way to break their chains.
Though such pondering of a future that would never come seemed pointless now. Mordor had fallen. What point was there in imagining how I might have served in Sauron's legions? All that remained were the sad, broken ruins of a once-great kingdom. My eyes turned to where Minas Morgul should have been, but now not even ruins remained. It felt like a telling portent. Even if Umbar hadn't been treated so poorly after its conquest, it was only a matter of time before Elessar reduced it to nothing but another city that bowed to the White Tree of Gondor. A kinder sort of destruction, but no less total.
There was a beauty in the Morgul Vale that would survive if the Men of Gondor held it. I doubt most would consider this land of darkened vales shrouded in faintly greenish fog beautiful, but I would like to believe that I have refined tastes.
It looked all the more beautiful because I was mercifully spared the company of any Gondorians. While the rangers were hard at work setting up our camp for the evening, I'd found a hill to climb that provided me with a perfect view into the Vale as the setting sun framed it. It was a quiet reminder of how truly beautiful the world we fought to protect truly was.
"There you are," Lieutenant Tirndis's voice snapped me out of my quiet contemplations. "It is unwise to wander from our camp when we are so near to the Morgul Vale. Prince Faramir placed you into my care, and I will be damned if I let you fall pray to the dark magic of this accursed place."
I scoffed and shook my head. "Dark magic? Curses? I had not thought the people of Gondor were so prone to foolish superstition."
Tirndis rolled her eyes at me. "If you will not accept the evidence of those things when it is plain before your eyes, then I will point out that there are still Orcs within the hidden places of the Vale, especially after we withdrew our garrison from Cirith Ungol. No doubt some orcish warband has settled there now. May whoever decided that the treasury could not bear the cost of holding that fortress be damned."
If what Anborn had told me about the difficulty of supplying the Gondorian fort holding the Morgul Pass was true, it was hardly a surprise. To keep Cirith Ungol supplied they would need to not only take whatever they needed through the Morgul Vale, but then through Mordor itself to reach the Tower. They could hardly send a supply wagon up the Stairs of Cirith Ungol. If the sad excuse for new Minas Ithil could barely be maintained, how could they hope to reach points beyond it in any strength?
Not that I would complain overmuch about Gondor's absence. If Gondor could not hold the fortress, then Nurn would. We could supply it far more easily, and it would be the first step in establishing a firmer hold on Mordor's former lands. To truly have peace and independence, Nurn would have to claim the Plains of Gorgoroth and push our borders to Ephel Duath and the Ash Mountains. If we left that land empty, Orcs or some other evil would inevitably flow into the vacuum to claim it. I would much prefer those fortresses be held by our people than Gondorians.
Tirndis's harsh and unpleasant voice tore me away from my thoughts. "Believe what you wish, but I shall be doubling the guard for the night and cautioning them to be alert. If you go wandering outside of camp in the dark of the night you are far too likely to catch an arrow from one of my men. So long as you are under my protection, I will not allow that to happen." Though judging by the look in her eyes as she spoke those words, I doubted she would be too terribly wracked by guilt if it did.
I let out a resigned sigh and reluctantly rose from my comfortable seat with its very pleasant view. "So be it, then." I could only hope that whichever of the rangers was on cooking duty this evening would at least have prepared something pleasant.
After filling my belly with a stew that was best described as 'passable' I was ready to bed down for the evening. Thankfully my status as something of a pariah within our group did come with a few unintended benefits, such as having a tent entirely to myself. Though it was hard to say whether that was meant to be an insult of nobody wanted to share a sleeping space with me, or one of the many privileges afforded by my noble blood. Judging by the way Tirndis consorted with the soldiers under her command, I did not think the rangers put as much weight upon titles. Though Tirndis was a very different sort of noble from me...
Bah. I had troubles enough with that most vexing woman without letting my mind linger on her when I should be sleeping. It was a quiet night, but instead of finding it restful the air seemed heavy with tension. Perhaps that was simply a side effect of Tirndis's orders to the night's watch. Everyone was on edge and waiting for some manifestation of dark magic to reveal itself. This wasn't the silence of weary travelers enjoying their rest, it was the silence of alert guards with taut bowstrings ready to fire at the first sign of trouble.
I had nearly managed to find my sleep when I heard the flap of my tent opening. I opened my eyes and sent a fierce scowl at whoever dared to disturb my rest, and found my eyes meeting those of the troublesome lieutenant. Why would she be coming to my tent late in the night, when everyone but the guards were abed? Was there some trouble, or ... did she have more illicit plans? I had heard tell of people who used relentless hostility and an appalling lack of showing proper respect as some sort of prelude to courtship, but I would certainly not entertain such behavior and in any case I did not think she was the sort to—
I immediately quashed such ridiculous thoughts when I spotted the drawn dagger in her hand. Then I noticed that despite the darkness of the night I could clearly see her eyes. They had always been green, but now they glowed with a fell light that stood out in the darkness of the tent.
When she spoke, there was an oddness to her voice. Almost as if some other force controlled her and compelled the words from her throat. "Damnable servant of Sauron. Enslaver, betrayer, and murderer of innocents. This evening you will pay for the death of my father, and all the others who have suffered at your hands!"
Unbidden, I remembered Anborn's words of warning to me when I first entered the Morgul Vale. How the taint in the air here could turn Men towards the darkest parts of their nature. At the time I had thought it a touch melodramatic, but looking at the mad light in Tirndis's eyes as she approached me with a bared blade, that talk seemed much more plausible.
I heard shouts outside the tent as well, though I could hardly take my eyes off the ensorcelled woman in front of me to investigate what was going on. Anything else would have to wait until I'd dealt with her, ideally without getting stabbed in the process.
[ ] Try to Snap Tirndis Out of it
- [ ] Write-in Approach
Lieutenant Tirndis is clearly being influenced by some fell magic that has overcome her reason and driven her from disliking me to contemplating outright murder. The only sensible course of action is to try to bring her back to her senses. The only question is how best to break through whatever enchantment has taken hold of her.
[ ] Restrain Tirndis
My first priority has to be dealing with the knife she's threatening me with. I can try breaking whatever dark magic has taken hold of her once I'm no longer in immediate danger of getting stabbed. Hopefully whatever's going on out in the camp doesn't involve the rest of the rangers coming to help her kill me, and they won't react too badly to seeing me disarming and tying up their commander.
[ ] Run Away
The leader of the rangers is trying to kill me, and the rest of them will probably back her up if they see a fight going on. I certainly wouldn't expect any of them to help me over supporting their commanding officer. I can't beat an entire squad of Gondorians on my own, the best move is to get away from them until the situation calms down.
[ ] Draw Her Own Weapon
Tirndis is openly threatening me with a drawn blade and talking about killing me. Stabbing her first is just self-defense. I'll try to avoid her vitals, but if that happens ... well, better her than me.
[ ] Write-in
QM Note: If you want to do any sort of complex multi-part plans, try to specify a clear sequence of events. Such as "Attempt to restrain her. If that succeeds, try reasoning with her. If it fails, run away."
Also, played around with some AI image generators, and got a passable Tirndis and Tigkiz.
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- Lake Wobegon
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This being SV, I know that the outcome will be trying to get magic out of trying to snap Tirndis out of it. So it doesn't matter that I'm voting for the stick-at-nought option:
[X] Draw Her Own Weapon
[X] Draw Her Own Weapon
[X] Restrain Tirndis
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- Here
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Diplomacy isn't the only social skill you can use in this situation. Leadership, Deception, and Intimidation can all apply, or if you come up with something like a way to use Lore that could work as well.
Brightflame
Lord of the Dance
- Location
- Inkopolis
[X] Restrain Tirndis
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[X] Restrain Tirndis
As much as we might dislike her. We need her alive.
As much as we might dislike her. We need her alive.
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
While I have some doubts about our heroine's ability to reason with the captain, she should at least try. I hope the attempt to point out her role as captain is a Leadership roll instead of Diplomacy. No matter what's going on outside, I prefer the rangers to have a captain to give orders.
[X] Plan: Talking is a free action.
-[X] Try to Snap Tirndis Out of it:
--[X] From the sounds of it, the camp is under attack. Does Tirndis really want to fight you right now, even though it might endanger her subordinates? They need their lieutenant's orders.
-[X] If the previous argument fails, point out that you were too young to harm anyone during Sauron's lifetime, and you know she knows it. Dark magic is messing with her head, she's convinced you before that such things happen in these parts.
-[X] If trying to reason with her fails, restrain her.
Our heroine's skill in unarmed combat is not particularly high, but I hope that her high physical indicators will compensate for this.
[X] Plan: Talking is a free action.
-[X] Try to Snap Tirndis Out of it:
--[X] From the sounds of it, the camp is under attack. Does Tirndis really want to fight you right now, even though it might endanger her subordinates? They need their lieutenant's orders.
-[X] If the previous argument fails, point out that you were too young to harm anyone during Sauron's lifetime, and you know she knows it. Dark magic is messing with her head, she's convinced you before that such things happen in these parts.
-[X] If trying to reason with her fails, restrain her.
Our heroine's skill in unarmed combat is not particularly high, but I hope that her high physical indicators will compensate for this.
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[X] Plan remember your duty as I remember mine.
-[X] Try to Snap Tirndis Out of it:
--[X] "Do you hear the commotion outside? Your rangers need you as Nurn needs them. I would die rather than fail MY task, so if you do not accept my help, I will restrain myself here at your mercy. Once you have seen to your rangers you can decide whether your desire for revenge sits higher than your oath to Faramir."
-[X] If that fails Run Away
The thought here is a sudden realisation on Arphazêl's part. Her thoughts about what she would have done if she grew up in Mordor still sets herself apart from her friends in Nurn, sure she can tell herself she would help them but what would she actually give up for them? Now's the time to recognise that leadership means sacrifice, then immediately weaponise that thought and turn it against Tirndis. I imagine this said in a tone of contempt, Tirndis has been so easily turned from the mission she was talking about not hours ago Arphazêl can refuse to let her own mission be jeoprodised by someone so weak as Tirndis. Is this using leadership? I hope so!
Magic? Eh. QM has already hinted we'll be getting magic at some point. Our girl needs principles.
Approval voting this because it's very similar to my idea.
[X] Plan: Talking is a free action.
-[X] Try to Snap Tirndis Out of it:
--[X] "Do you hear the commotion outside? Your rangers need you as Nurn needs them. I would die rather than fail MY task, so if you do not accept my help, I will restrain myself here at your mercy. Once you have seen to your rangers you can decide whether your desire for revenge sits higher than your oath to Faramir."
-[X] If that fails Run Away
The thought here is a sudden realisation on Arphazêl's part. Her thoughts about what she would have done if she grew up in Mordor still sets herself apart from her friends in Nurn, sure she can tell herself she would help them but what would she actually give up for them? Now's the time to recognise that leadership means sacrifice, then immediately weaponise that thought and turn it against Tirndis. I imagine this said in a tone of contempt, Tirndis has been so easily turned from the mission she was talking about not hours ago Arphazêl can refuse to let her own mission be jeoprodised by someone so weak as Tirndis. Is this using leadership? I hope so!
Magic? Eh. QM has already hinted we'll be getting magic at some point. Our girl needs principles.
Approval voting this because it's very similar to my idea.
[X] Plan: Talking is a free action.
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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[X] Plan remember your duty as I remember mine.
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Both the plans talking to Tirndis feel pretty leadership-based to me.
As far as reasoning with Tirndis goes, outright mind control turning people into meat-puppets isn't generally a thing in Middle Earth. Usually, it's more a matter of magic/corrupting influence working its way into someone's pre-existing mental weak points. Boromir's willingness to do anything to save Minas Tirith, Thorin's long-wounded pride over being a king in exile instead of a reigning monarch, etc.