Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

[LostDeviljho]

HOW DID I MISS THIS.

Somebody edit this into genial's longer vote please, writing this response took all my current mental and technical processing power. Both my new old phone and I are exhausted.

Click to shrink...

Plan red team is go?


[x] Tell Minami to...
-[x] ...do her stealth thing and do what she can assist--just be careful of getting in the crossfire.

[x] Fight defensively and attempt to secure a parley via brainmail
-[x] Fight...
--[x] You could really use a way to deflect attacks if you're going to keep Minami safe. Use shockwaves to parry attacks. Big shockwaves if she sends a bunch of little stuff, more focused ones if she manages to launch something heavy.
--[x] Use shockwaves to blast away the small projectiles she's forming.
--[x] Explode the dense columns; they're either lances heavy enough to maybe injure you or definitely injure Minami, or they're worse like a railgun or something.
-[x] Brainmail...
-[x] Play softball.
--[x] Ask her why she's attacking you. Clear up ~wacky sitcom misunderstandings~, if any.
---[x] If that isn't enough, tell her that you're incredibly strong and she has basically no way to win, but that's okay because you don't actually have to fight! If she's willing to stand down, you are.

[x] If railguca refuses to parley...
-[x] Explode the ground underfoot with a beam to disorient and intimidate, then reiterate your demand to stand down.
-[x] Call for a warning shot from Minami if possible.
-[x] Mercy is a power you could really use right now. Try to set a shockwave to stun.
--[x] If that fails, use shockwaves to try to injure her enough to induce her surrender, and demand her surrender via brainmail.
---[x] If that doesn't seem to be working, shoot a hand or foot.

 

[Nervos Belli]

I wouldn't mind something like "blast aside any attacks which threaten Minami" as part of an effort to learn counterattack/defense moves. Mostly I'm thinking that ceding the initiative is a bad idea, though, so I'm more inclined to do minimal necessary defense and aside from that press the attack so that she's the one on the back foot.

I actually almost wrote "blast her big metal weapon blobs while you run up and smack her with your super-heavy melee weapon", but the swirling cloud of shrapnel and the fact that even a small chip in a soul gem is ultimately fatal made me reluctant to get into close range.

We've been claiming all of Nagamioka as ours since our first hostile incursion. Remember this?Going "you're being a bitch, now back down or I'll slap you down" isn't maximum edgelord by any reasonable measure. Admittedly, phrasing things as "stop fighting and talk or else" instead of "surrender or else" would be more generous and within reasonable parameters, so I wouldn't mind a switch to something like that, but we shouldn't compromise on our territorial holdings, either. We said that we'd protect Nagomioka and we meant it- which means that no, this isn't her territory as far as we're concerned until she has cleared that with us.

Or did you just mean about the limb-blasting thing? I figured it was better for Yui to be explicit about the penalties for going against her directions but if you'd rather use more vague terms I suppose it doesn't make a difference. It's not like we can get a magical girl to stop fighting with any level of injury short of limb loss, and Yui's beams are very good at blasting large holes in people, so it'll end up that way no matter how we phrase it.

And no, we're not actually fine coexisting with Chou even if she doesn't work for us. That's why we've been undertaking a social campaign to get her working for us, and are going to continue socially pressuring her until she is. Chou requested that we leave instead of trying to murder us after we first met, and that merits treating her politely and with friendship until we can subvert her independence and bring her into the fold... but I think everyone here knows that we want Chou to show up at our meetings as one of the Nagamioka girls and not maintain an independent little fief, and we set things up to push her into giving into that state of affairs starting from our very first conversation.

Anyway, I'm all in favor of getting the fighting to stop, which is why my vote doesn't switch to offense outright until this girl refuses to stop fighting. But if we are in a fight, we need to win it. Spending five or ten minutes going "but if you'd only talk, we could be friends!" while she launches lethal attacks at us is too anime even for Yui. If you want to customize exactly what we say during our one call to cut that shit out before we smack her down, in an effort to optimize its expected effectiveness, I'm interested in seeing a full write-in to that effect.

Click to shrink...

There's a difference between under our protection and our territory. To continue using the Chou example, if someone tried to attack her and take over her territory, I'd vote to help her drive them off. But that doesn't mean we can decide who gets to stay in her territory or how she hunts within it.

Your vote has us walking into someone's territory brazenly, then slapping down them trying to defend it and declaring we've conquered their territory. I can't really see a difference between that and the normal Tokyoguca land grabs.

Here's a question. If there's someone who is in Nagamioka who isn't interested in cooperation, and resists any attempts at recruitment, are you going to drive them out or forcibly subjugate them? Because that's what this vote feels like to me.

[X] SystemicHatter

 

[PhDEevee]

@redzonejoe: Already updated my vote in response to that (see further down that page). More comments when I get back on my laptop.

 

[Always Late]

... stuff like this is why I've given up on voting or following the discussion in this quest. It's too fast, too massive, and too micro-intensive for people outside the tactically minded, science-crunching, PMMM experts to participate in. Which there's a number of here, and all seem to be having a blast. But there's a not insignificant barrier to entry here.

 

[UbeOne]

How about PMAS?

 

[Genial Precis]

... stuff like this is why I've given up on voting or following the discussion in this quest. It's too fast, too massive, and too micro-intensive for people outside the tactically minded, science-crunching, PMMM experts to participate in. Which there's a number of here, and all seem to be having a blast. But there's a not insignificant barrier to entry here.

Click to shrink...

Well, I think most of the ongoing debate is ultimately about what kind of territory-holder we want to be. That's an easier issue to engage with.

 

[Nevill]

Missed yesterday and the whole lot of BEST GIRL voting, catching up!

I know, right? She's grown on me to the point that I kinda hope you guys don't just ditch her. I suppose I could always do an omake of Hisae's group from back when they were a bit less awful...

Click to shrink...

She kinda grew on me too. Maybe I am just a sucker for atonement stories*, or maybe it's that she became our real first test of the principles we claim to stand by, but I became invested in getting through to her. And genuinely, without sending her to Shinobu re-education camps.

It's easy to be cute and adorable hero of justice if you don't have to deal with ethical problems. Naoko will be the measure of our commitment to this path.

*or just Bad Girls in general. Hmmm...

I voted for her on the poll, for what's it worth. Now I wonder whether her ranking in the same place with Natsuki (whom I voted for too) says more about her or about our best friend.

Actually, I think that suddenly became way less urgent. The problem with her was, she heavily depended on her Only Best Friend Yui because of that incident Minami caused, and so would instantly contract/witch out if left to her own devices. But since Minami had made a wish that implied fixing Natsuki's isolation, Natsuki suddenly turned out to pseudo-always have had other friends besides Yui. That should have left her more independent, and so less focused on investigating changes in Yui's behaviour and making rash decisions based on her findings.

Click to shrink...

I think she might just be able to handle information about meguca world now without throwing herself into it. We are still her best friend and she still would not want us to come to harm, but now the thought of Yui living a dangerous life does not cause a panic attack. She might be able to support us without being sacrificial about it.

Tomo/Naoko OTP fight me.

Click to shrink...

Well, their costumes do match. Somewhat? And since Tomo shares our ideals of justice, I can see her showing Naoko the Way Of The Hero... if we make at least some progress on her, first. It's not as crack as one might think.

Maiko frowns, then pushes her glasses up her nose. "That would fit my guess regarding your wish magic being... conceptually expansive, I suppose," she says. "But if you can't figure out how to accomplish something with it I'm not sure there's anything I can do to assist. That type of thing is often tied intimately to the mindset and motives you had when making your wish, and nearly impossible to describe clearly in words."

"Hmm," you say, tapping your chin thoughtfully.

"That said, if your wish is enhancing your ability to acquire and retain information, I don't believe there's a sound conceptual link from that to obtaining otherwise unavailable information. Furthermore, 'mind reading' is a very broad notion, and may simply be too general for you to frame in terms of your wish," Maiko says.

Click to shrink...

I think that might work, just not arbitrarily so, i.e. in some specific circumstances? Our wish was fueled, among other things, by fear of not being good enough. So if we are supposed to give an answer to a question we don't know or don't remember, it might help us find something that would satisfy the demand. That might actually help us pass exams, especially since if we don't, we might get in trouble with our parents and it might interfere with our plans to save EVERYONE. The wish ensures we will be at least adequate to whatever task we are undertaking, the more it relates to being a Hero of Justice, the better.

Whether this translates into actual knowledge, or just substitutes for it at the right time leaving us none the wiser when nothing is at stake or when the crisis passes, is indeed a question.

There's a reason I prioritized better maps! Things are kiiiinda getting to the point that "cardinal directions relative to Yui's neighborhood" wasn't gonna cut it much longer.

Click to shrink...

If it's necessary to understanding of what's going on... perhaps threadmarking it or posting it on the first page would be worthwhile?

I'm all ears for alternative approaches. I believe a certain level of assertiveness is called for, however.

Click to shrink...

Yui asserts herself through actions. Like having a tea party with Kaede and incinerating a witch with a single blast, or actually holding onto the territory of Nagamioka and mustering a team of about 10 loosely allied girls in a week.

Her attitude is light and goofy, rather than regal and intimidating. Being untouchable here, if we can manage it, would speak louder than any explicit threat, and would be less likely to provoke a contrarian/spiteful reaction.

 

[veekie]

Yui asserts herself through actions. Like having a tea party with Kaede and incinerating a witch with a single blast, or actually holding onto the territory of Nagamioka and mustering a team of about 10 loosely allied girls in a week.

Her attitude is light and goofy, rather than regal and intimidating. Being untouchable here, if we can manage it, would speak louder than any explicit threat, and would be less likely to provoke a contrarian/spiteful reaction.

Click to shrink...

Heck, the amiability is one of the scarier parts once you realize you can't just roll her casually and she's not doing that because she doesn't know what it's really like.

She's really holding back and still kicking you across the town.

 

[Always Late]

How about PMAS?

Click to shrink...

Only difference in the situation is there's less thread drama here.

Well, I think most of the ongoing debate is ultimately about what kind of territory-holder we want to be. That's an easier issue to engage with.

Click to shrink...

Not really. When there are almost a dozen people trading mini-essays back and forth all at the same time, that's very difficult for someone without lots of experience in these sorts of quests to even follow, much less comfortably participate in.
And then we also have the matter of how that discussion gets applied to the current combat situation, which has the same not-quite dozen people trading mini-essays back and forth at the same time.
This may be straightforward to you, and that's great, but think about how someone who's not a long-time part of the PMMM quest community might view the current situation.

 

[Nevill]

How do you feel about a line like the following, for emphasizing the possibility of de-escalation?

Click to shrink...

Better than before. But what don't you like about Elephant Parade's take on it?

With emphasizing the de-escalation, it is almost as if you are saying that we don't have to fight... That's why some people prefer SystemicHatter's option, because I can't find the reason why we should do more than what constitutes self-defence.

This looks like the reason:

Your vote has us walking into someone's territory brazenly, then slapping down them trying to defend it and declaring we've conquered their territory. I can't really see a difference between that and the normal Tokyoguca land grabs.

Click to shrink...

And I can't really get behind it without exhausting other avenues.

This may be straightforward to you, and that's great, but think about how someone who's not a long-time part of the PMMM quest community might view the current situation.

Click to shrink...

This really only has to do with what kind of character we are or want to be, and not a lot with tactics or even fandom.

...I am certainly not a part of PMMM quest community by any means.

 

[Genial Precis]

Better than before. But what don't you like about Elephant Parade's take on it?

With emphasizing the de-escalation, it is almost as if you are saying that we don't have to fight... That's why some people prefer SystemicHatter's option, because I can't find the reason why we should do more than what constitutes self-defence.

Click to shrink...

I'm warming up to Elephant Parade's take. Especially since it occurs to me that meguca just might tend to be fairly stubborn. Credit to @LostDeviljho for the below mashup. Ending the fight is most important component of establishing authority. Negotiations after are a part of it too, but first we have to convince her to stop fighting, and then that course of action will have a certain momentum.

[x] Tell Minami to...
-[x] ...do her stealth thing and do what she can assist--just be careful of getting in the crossfire.

[x] Fight defensively and attempt to secure a surrender via brainmail
-[x] Fight...
--[x] You could really use a way to deflect attacks if you're going to keep Minami safe. Use shockwaves to parry attacks. Big shockwaves if she sends a bunch of little stuff, more focused ones if she manages to launch something heavy.
--[x] Use shockwaves to blast away the small projectiles she's forming.
--[x] Explode the dense columns; they're either lances heavy enough to maybe injure you or definitely injure Minami, or they're worse like a railgun or something.
-[x] Brainmail...
-[x] Play softball.
--[x] Ask her why she's attacking you. Clear up ~wacky sitcom misunderstandings~, if any.
---[x] If that isn't enough, tell her that you're incredibly strong and she has basically no way to win, but that's okay because you don't actually have to fight! If she's willing to stand down, you are.

[x] If railguca refuses to surrender...
-[x] Explode the ground underfoot with a beam to disorient and intimidate, then reiterate your demand to stand down.
-[x] Call for a warning shot from Minami if possible.
-[x] Mercy is a power you could really use right now. Try to set a shockwave to stun.
--[x] If that fails, use shockwaves to try to injure her enough to induce her surrender, and demand her surrender via brainmail.
---[x] If that doesn't seem to be working, shoot a hand or foot.

 

[Noumero]

It's so pleasant to sit back and not do anything, and then notice that the final form of one of the leading votes nearly perfectly corresponds to the way I wanted to addres the situation after reading the discussion.
[x] Genial Precis

 

[PhDEevee]

On reading through a couple of times, I've decided not to amend my vote too much. I'm only adding a single line to ask Minami to go into stealth.

I really don't think we need to micromanage this terribly; we have a preferred tactic and a fallback option, and the rest is micromanagement and bloat, I feel. I also think that telling the girl that Yui is really strong is likely to sound like bluster, rather than a statement of fact, and will likely ratchet her effort up.

[X] Brainmail the railguca.
-[X] Welcome her to Nagamioka. Inform her that you understand that she was worried about being kicked out, but you weren't here to do that.
-[X] However, she needs to stop now, or someone might get hurt for no good reason.
[X] If she throws the shrapnel at you, sweep it aside but don't retaliate.
-[X] Make sure it doesn't hit Minami.
[X] Keep an eye on those large piles, though, and destroy them if she doesn't stop attacking.
-[X] Ask Minami to go into stealth if you're forced to do that.

 

[FelOnyx]

Ok, what is this sudden obsession with dismembering people?

Click to shrink...

Residual influence of SayakaQuest. In which "missing limb" replaced "paper cut" as a synonym for trivial injury.

 

[UbeOne]

That doesn't make sense since we have no healer in the team.

 

[Hestia&theCourt]

[X] Genial Precis

 

[redzonejoe]

Plan red team is go?

Click to shrink...

I'm warming up to Elephant Parade's take.

Click to shrink...

Yes, plan red team is go.

Do I vote Devil or Genial?

... fuck it
[X] Plan Red Team

 

[Elephant Parade]

[x] Fight defensively and attempt to secure a surrender via brainmail

Click to shrink...

[x] If railguca refuses to surrender...

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure how I feel about the word "surrender"; I would probably go with "stop fighting" or something similar. I mean, the vote will probably be interpreted that way regardless, but it's best to be careful.

[ ] Fight defensively and attempt to get railguca to stop fighting via brainmail.
[ ] If she refuses to stop fighting...

[x] General Precis

 

[BunnyLord]

[x] Plan Red Team

 

[Echo]

Multi-reply time, yay!

Probably, but it would be a lot chewier due to the ductility. Concrete is crumbly.

Click to shrink...

"I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum steel..."

We can try and use our Authority Aura to command her to stand down.
If she'll comply, that means she's a part of group, probably scout or enforcer for territory grab.
If not, she's a loner.

Click to shrink...

You could try stuff like this, but it takes a bit of time. Yui can only do so much at once, and your current enemy is fast and aggressive.

About this, is it possible to use a larger beam on one of the piles as example of power or would she dig in?

Click to shrink...

If it exists, Yui can shoot it!

...strategically, probably not the best plan though. Larger beams are rarely going to be viable outside a Witch barrier.

Our main aims here are to:
1. Resolve the situation
2. Prevent Minami from being harmed
3. Prevent Yui from being harmed.

Click to shrink...

4. Be adorable
5. Make friends with the new magical girl
5b. Add her to your harem if appropriate

Need to identify scared teen doing dumb thing, dumb teen doing dumb thing, ptsd teen doing dumb thing and actual asshole

Click to shrink...

...you say that like actual assholes won't generally also be doing dumb things.

Though advicing Minami to go into stealth does not really make Steel trust our intentions more,

Click to shrink...

Because of the wish she made, Minami's stealth is primarily a mental effect. If Minami goes full stealth neither metalguca nor Yui will remember or care who that totally uninteresting bystander is and why she's on the roof.

wake up Naoko and inform her that we have a need of her magic, which would be opening an even bigger can of worms, as it validates her mindset and gives her power over us.

Click to shrink...

On the bright side, validating her mindset means she'd probably cooperate and do the requested healing with minimal fuss!

We are overpowering her to such a ridiculous extent, it's not even funny. We have an advantage in a direct fight, in a fight of attrition, an advantage of numbers, advantage of territory (with reserves we can call upon)...

Click to shrink...

Metalguca doesn't know most of that, though.

Second, not enough time to decide what to vote for just yet, but I recall something about Tomo possessing upgraded healing? Not that we should be blowing off limbs, but in an emergency and not wanting to use Naoko, Tomo's got our back (as always. <3)

Click to shrink...

If the limbs are there, yes. Tomo has a much more limited ability, as far as I understood. Not really suitable for dismemberment cases.

Click to shrink...

Tomo can't restore dead tissue or replace significant amounts of missing tissue. If a limb is severed but mostly intact, she can probably reattach it as long as she does so promptly.

Unlikely. I ran the math on soul gem hardness that Echo gave us, and if you're applying enough pressure to crack ruby, you'd long since have pulped the rest of a human body.

Click to shrink...

And Soul Gems don't have planes of cleavage, so there's no issue with impacts from just the right direction splitting it in half, either.

... stuff like this is why I've given up on voting or following the discussion in this quest. It's too fast, too massive, and too micro-intensive for people outside the tactically minded, science-crunching, PMMM experts to participate in. Which there's a number of here, and all seem to be having a blast. But there's a not insignificant barrier to entry here.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry to hear that. I admit that I personally enjoy discussions like these and so tend to encourage them, but is there anything I could do to make it easier for more people to participate? Earlier in the quest I tried to mix fluffy bits and tactical bits, but that's harder to do in the current situation.

I really don't think we need to micromanage this terribly; we have a preferred tactic and a fallback option, and the rest is micromanagement and bloat, I feel.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't feel too micromanage-y to me? There's a conditional on how to escalate if necessary, some bits that are trying to expand the breadth of Yui's magic abilities, and a more detailed view of battle priorities. Including preemptively destroying the metal columns she's building, which the vote seems to suspect (given that it's calling her 'railguca') will shortly be a very powerful weapon.

If it's necessary to understanding of what's going on... perhaps threadmarking it or posting it on the first page would be worthwhile?

Click to shrink...

Still working on updating the data post--the maps will be there once it's up.

I think she might just be able to handle information about meguca world now without throwing herself into it. We are still her best friend and she still would not want us to come to harm, but now the thought of Yui living a dangerous life does not cause a panic attack. She might be able to support us without being sacrificial about it.

Click to shrink...

Trying to probe Natsuki about her current mental state is going to start showing up as a suggested vote when she's around, yeah.

Missed yesterday and the whole lot of BEST GIRL voting, catching up!

Click to shrink...

Speaking of which, looks like voting on that has mostly stopped. Current results show the same obvious favorites, with Tomo, Chou, Yumi, and Asami leading the pack for the supporting characters.

Plan red team is go?

Click to shrink...

That reminds me. Super important question time: @Genial Precis's avatar is of a character whose given name is written with a single kanji that means "red". Does that qualify for Red Team membership?

 

[Hestia&theCourt]

Super important question time: @Genial Precis's avatar is of a character whose given name is written with a single kanji that means "red". Does that qualify for Red Team membership?

Click to shrink...

Works for me.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Question? Since when does @LostDeviljho quality for Red Team? His name doesn't have much to do with red, and while he's currently using a red avatar, he's unfaithful enough to those (and a Sayaka at heart) that I'd think he wouldn't qualify.

Super important question time: @Genial Precis's avatar is of a character whose given name is written with a single kanji that means "red". Does that qualify for Red Team membership?

Click to shrink...

And no, that seems way too oblique. Maybe if he had some red in the avatar itself...

 

[Muramasa]

There's a difference between under our protection and our territory. To continue using the Chou example, if someone tried to attack her and take over her territory, I'd vote to help her drive them off. But that doesn't mean we can decide who gets to stay in her territory or how she hunts within it.

Your vote has us walking into someone's territory brazenly, then slapping down them trying to defend it and declaring we've conquered their territory. I can't really see a difference between that and the normal Tokyoguca land grabs.

Here's a question. If there's someone who is in Nagamioka who isn't interested in cooperation, and resists any attempts at recruitment, are you going to drive them out or forcibly subjugate them? Because that's what this vote feels like to me.

[X] SystemicHatter

Click to shrink...

Okay here's the thing. Yui said it best back at the bridge battle. What goes on in Nagamioka is our concern. Chou is to the best of our knowledge, just holding a piece of the city to sustain the means of being able to live her life and perhaps grow a garden on the side. That's fine. We have no problems with that. If she was attacking any magical girls for trespassing, we'd have to investigate that. Because either one or more of our girls is acting out of line, there's an invasion happening or there was a sudden influx of newbies appearing in Chou's territory, and we'd need to negotiate how this is handled in the future because we'd rather not have newbies attacked for being newbies.

In railguca's case, we were just ambushed with borderline lethal force. This is at least for now excusable in spite of it being Tokyo behavior simply because as a Tokyo magical girl, that's probably all she's ever known on top of a lack of alternative options or a real support network. That said, what goes on in our city is our concern. We would not want Railguca doing this to other newbie magical girls or any of ours that just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. So, if railguca is at least amenable to having a discussion, we can offer her a support network in exchange for her making changes to her 'rules of engagement' so to speak.

But if railguca insists on continuing on this line of behavior and attacking any magical girl she comes across, then no that's not acceptable. We'd need to take action.

 

[Always Late]

I'm sorry to hear that. I admit that I personally enjoy discussions like these and so tend to encourage them, but is there anything I could do to make it easier for more people to participate? Earlier in the quest I tried to mix fluffy bits and tactical bits, but that's harder to do in the current situation.

Click to shrink...

Well, considering I'm a bit of a minority in things, I'm not so sure if my advice/suggestions would actually help or negatively impact the experience of the rest of the player base. You've got pretty much the SV PMMM questers, this strategy/science stuff is their bread and butter. Even if you did something like cut down the detail of the vote options in exchange for more broad and generic choices, I bet they'd go into this amount of detail and planning on their own. You've married complex social situations, a large amount of three-dimensional characters, to empire management.
That's about as friendly to casuals as Dark Souls is to YOLO strats.

 

[UbeOne]

Each community has its veterans, I guess. For instance, there's not much for me to contribute in Redshirt Army's RWBY quest since the veterans there already go into plenty of detail on plans, speculations, strategies and science.