Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

[redzonejoe]

Like I said before, I prefer Brief's approach to diplomacy here.

[x] While you fight, try talking to your opponent via brainmail.
- [x] Try to talk her down peacefully. Point out that she didn't overwhelm you in the initial assault if that was her plan, so she has nothing to lose by stopping a moment to talk now.

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Compared to

[x] While you fight, try talking to your opponent via brainmail.
- [x] Play hardball.
-- [x] Inform her that you are Yui Aikawa and Nagamioka is yours in its entirety. As she declined to introduce herself, attempt to lay claim to this area, or even warn you off prior to attacking you you're going to give her one opportunity to surrender and gain your forgiveness for this foolishness. If she insists on fighting you will try to disable her safely, but are unsure of your ability to avoid seriously injuring her.

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While I'm not against playing hardball when the situation calls for it, the most recent similar situation is when whatsherface attacked us in that witch barrier. We just defended ourselves calmly and basically said 'woah there, let's calm down and talk' instead of being a hard-ass and blowing off her limbs.

That's the Yui approach that I want to employ here, and at every other possible opportunity.

If the harsher approach is necessary, then we can turn to it next. I'm not convinced yet that it is.

The only real concern here is Minami getting caught up in things, but the combat portion of the plan seems to address that well enough and by the time our more diplomatic approach might fail, Minami would be away from the immediate danger.

 

[PhDEevee]

@redzonejoe: I kind of agree, but I'm not sure how to construct that vote. Briefvoice's original vote gives a basic framework, but it's not quite enough. Will think about and post some comments again in a bit.

 

[redzonejoe]

@redzonejoe: I kind of agree, but I'm not sure how to construct that vote. Briefvoice's original vote gives a basic framework, but it's not quite enough. Will think about and post some comments again in a bit.

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Thanks. It's not like I'm enamored with that precise vote, I just agree with the intent behind it. If you come up with something less hostile than the current leading vote, then you'll have my support.

 

[veekie]

Thanks. It's not like I'm enamored with that precise vote, I just agree with the intent behind it. If you come up with something less hostile than the current leading vote, then you'll have my support.

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Seconded

 

[Shaseyu]

[x] Genial Precis

We can try and use our Authority Aura to command her to stand down.
If she'll comply, that means she's a part of group, probably scout or enforcer for territory grab.
If not, she's a loner.

 

[PhDEevee]

Okay, so:

Our main aims here are to:
1. Resolve the situation
2. Prevent Minami from being harmed
3. Prevent Yui from being harmed.

Not necessarily in that order.

We can reasonably guess that the railguca is pretty scared and desperate, which may make it hard to de-escalate. That said, de-escalating is the preferred option. So what assurances can we give that Yui and Minami aren't going to straight-out murder her? Moreover, how can we get her to listen?

I'm becoming more and more convinced that going for the hard option is going to cause her to treat Yui like a Tokyo girl and dig in. That said, there's no guarantee any of the nicer options will work, either. Here's a vague draft. Is this at all close to what people want? I think it needs a bit of work.

[X] In your cheeriest tone, brainmail the railguca.
-[X] Welcome her to Nagamioka and ask if she's okay.
-[X] Tell her there's no need to be scared. You're not going to kick her out unless she keeps attacking you.
-[X] You just want to talk.
[X] If she throws the shrapnel at you, sweep it aside but don't retaliate.
[X] Keep an eye on those large piles, though, and destroy them if she doesn't stop attacking.

 

[UbeOne]

[x] SystemicHatter

 

[Muramasa]

That's probably a step or two too far in the other direction. Girl still attacked us (and Minami) unprovoked with borderline lethal force. That's not okay.

 

[PhDEevee]

That's probably a step or two too far in the other direction. Girl still attacked us (and Minami) unprovoked with borderline lethal force. That's not okay.

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No, it's not. I'm trying to work out how to say "I understand why you did this, and I'm willing to forgive you, if you stop now" in a nice way. I do agree I've probably given too much ground here. Hmm. How about:

[X] Brainmail the railguca.
-[X] Welcome her to Nagamioka. Inform her that you understand that she was worried about being kicked out, but you weren't here to do that.
-[X] However, she needs to stop now, or someone might get hurt for no good reason.
[X] If she throws the shrapnel at you, sweep it aside but don't retaliate.
-[X] Make sure it doesn't hit Minami.
[X] Keep an eye on those large piles, though, and destroy them if she doesn't stop attacking.

 

[Vebyast]

-[X] However, she needs to stop now, or someone might get hurt for no good reason.

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Put the right emphasis on that - "and that person will be you" - and I think it should get the message across?

 

[PhDEevee]

Put the right emphasis on that - "and that person will be you" - and I think it should get the message across?

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I'm fairly sure that's already implied, though I'll make it more explicit if more people want that. A little bit of obliqueness can keep things relatively civil.

 

[veekie]

[x] SystemicHatter

Need to identify scared teen doing dumb thing, dumb teen doing dumb thing, ptsd teen doing dumb thing and actual asshole

 

[Shaseyu]

"I understand why you did this, and I'm willing to forgive you, if you stop now"

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Are we understand why she did this?
She may be Chou-like refugee, or she may be Kyoko-like territory-grabber or vanguard of invasion.

I prefer the TSAB way - "Surrender peacefully and I'll listen your story and help you. Resist and you'll be crushed with overwhelming firepower. And then I'll listen your story and help you, because I'm really nice."

 

[Nevill]

- [x] If railguca continues fighting...
-- [x] Explode the ground underfoot with a beam to disorient and intimidate, then reiterate your demand to stand down.
-- [x] Mercy is a power you could really use right now. Try to set a shockwave to stun.
-- [x] If that fails, shoot limbs, trying to injure her enough to induce her surrender.

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Ok, what is this sudden obsession with dismembering people?

Removing limbs is not a joke, and should be considered as a last step before killing people. Nevermind that we don't have a healer on hand that is able to restore major injuries unless we either leave the girl to bleed out, or wake up Naoko and inform her that we have a need of her magic, which would be opening an even bigger can of worms, as it validates her mindset and gives her power over us.

There are alternatives to that, up to and including disengaging and taking a different approach at a later date since we have absolutely no stakes in this fight. As unsatisfactory as it is, I find it a viable alternative to maiming people just because we can.

If the goal is to make the girl surrender, why not provide her more incentive to do so? We are overpowering her to such a ridiculous extent, it's not even funny. We have an advantage in a direct fight, in a fight of attrition, an advantage of numbers, advantage of territory (with reserves we can call upon)... If we have Minami get away and fire a warning shot informing the girl that she is surrounded, it'd be pretty effective as a demand.

We have plenty of ways to deal with this that aren't that extreme. I feel that this bludgeoning girls into submission until we are the only one standing is hardly warranted. If anything, we can simply try and outlast her, or - as the second to last resort - disconnect her. Not sure I would prefer dealing with Naoko on these terms to a mere grief expenditure.

 

[Jrin]

[x] SystemicHatter

[X] Keep an eye on those large piles, though, and destroy them if she doesn't stop attacking.

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About this, is it possible to use a larger beam on one of the piles as example of power or would she dig in?

 

[Nevill]

No, it's not. I'm trying to work out how to say "I understand why you did this, and I'm willing to forgive you, if you stop now" in a nice way. I do agree I've probably given too much ground here. Hmm. How about:

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There probably should be something that deals with the possibility of her not being very reasonable.

Given that she is seemingly a loner who operates without a team, I doubt her willingness to fight will last if she can't hurt us, but a) she might be able to hurt us eventually if all we do is 'nothing', and b) we might have to prove that we are stronger instead of just being able to deflect whatever is thrown at us. I am just arguing in favor of not ripping people to shreds as said proof.

1. Resolve the situation
2. Prevent Minami from being harmed
3. Prevent Yui from being harmed.

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Why aren't we sending Minami off? We are trying to protect her, but it's making it harder on us, and gives us one more point of failure. There was panic earlier about the other girl, but she is seemingly oblivious to all the fighting and does not react. If Minami disengages in stealth mode, we might be able to surround the girl and force her to cease fighting. Sniper Minami always was a bail-out possibility if we ever found ourselves in a pinch.

Though advicing Minami to go into stealth does not really make Steel trust our intentions more, thus having it as a contingency in case the girl is not in a talking mood. How about...?

[ ] If the girl does not calm down.
-[ ] Tell Minami to...
--[ ] ...safely fall back and assist however she can from long range.
--[ ] ...fire a warning shot at the girl and repeat the demand to stand down.

Still voting for your version, as I don't quite see Yui 'playing hardball'.

[x] SystemicHatter

 

[Genial Precis]

@Vebyast your restructuring makes the vote more clear, so I have used it.

I've also slightly softened the tone of the demands to stand down and specifically brought up the entirely possible outcome of recruiting this girl. I've added a step of escalation, the possibility of a warning shot from Minami, and changed targeting to extremities if we actually shoot her. That is something Tomo can heal, at least. And I removed the hardball label, since it added nothing that I could discern.

There are alternatives to that, up to and including disengaging and taking a different approach at a later date since we have absolutely no stakes in this fight? As unsatisfactory as it is, I find it a viable alternative to maiming people just because we can.

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I don't think disengaging and approaching later is viable. If we do that, we'll end up with several more like railguca in the mean time. Furthermore, we have claimed Nagamioka, and we have a responsibility to our group to prevent incursions.


[x] Tell Minami to...
- [x] ...do her stealth thing and do what she can assist--just be careful of getting in the crossfire.

[x] Fight defensively and attempt to secure a surrender via brainmail
- [x] Fight...
-- [x] You could really use a way to deflect attacks if you're going to keep Minami safe. Use shockwaves to parry attacks. Big shockwaves if she sends a bunch of little stuff, more focused ones if she manages to launch something heavy.
-- [x] Use shockwaves to blast away the small projectiles she's forming.
-- [x] Explode the dense columns; they're either lances heavy enough to maybe injure you or definitely injure Minami, or they're worse like a railgun or something.
- [x] Brainmail...
-- [x] Inform her that you are Yui Aikawa and Nagamioka is yours in its entirety. In spite of her ambush, you are willing to forgive if she stands down and explains herself. You're even recruiting. If she continues to fight, you will try to force her to stop but will be forced to resort to increasingly unsafe measures to do so.

[x] If railguca refuses to surrender...
- [x] Explode the ground underfoot with a beam to disorient and intimidate, then reiterate your demand to stand down.
- [x] Call for a warning shot from Minami if possible.
- [x] Mercy is a power you could really use right now. Try to set a shockwave to stun.
-- [x] If that fails, use shockwaves to try to injure her enough to induce her surrender, and demand her surrender via brainmail.
--- [x] If that doesn't seem to be working, shoot a hand or foot.

 

[BunnyLord]

First up,

"you're being a bitch, now back down or I'll slap you down"

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we need to use this exact wording.

Second, not enough time to decide what to vote for just yet, but I recall something about Tomo possessing upgraded healing? Not that we should be blowing off limbs, but in an emergency and not wanting to use Naoko, Tomo's got our back (as always. <3)

 

[Nevill]

I don't think disengaging and approaching later is viable. If we do that, we'll end up with several more like railguca in the mean time. Furthermore, we have claimed Nagamioka, and we have a responsibility to our group to prevent incursions.

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Sure it is. Just have Maiko look her up in the grimoire, take a team suitable to disable her, and take her out quickly.

It is a fallback in case she turns out to be unreasonable (i.e. with a berserker mentality). I doubt there will be many of those. Meanwhile, we do have means of dealing with these types, it's just they aren't with us at the moment as we were caught unawares.

Again, I'd rather postpone problems until we get the tools to solve them than power through them with what we have on hand at the moment because we don't want to wait. That was the logic behind the treatment of Naoko and Kaede. Though I remember quite a few people wanted to play hardball there, too. Or was it baseball? I might be forgetting things...

It is going to be a recurrent argument, is it? I don't think anyone reconsidered their approach since then.

Not that we should be blowing off limbs, but in an emergency and not wanting to use Naoko, Tomo's got our back (as always. <3)

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If the limbs are there, yes. Tomo has a much more limited ability, as far as I understood. Not really suitable for dismemberment cases.

-- [x] Inform her that you are Yui Aikawa and Nagamioka is yours in its entirety. In spite of her ambush, you are willing to forgive if she stands down and explains herself. You're even recruiting. If she continues to fight, you will try to force her to stop but will be forced to resort to increasingly unsafe measures to do so.

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Definitely an improvement from 'Surrender, and I'll forgive you the foolishness of daring to stand against me', but the horse is still way too high for Yui.

Edit: This is what I believe Yui is like:

[x] While you fight, try talking to your opponent via brainmail.
-[x] Play softball.
--[x] Ask her why she's attacking you. Clear up ~wacky sitcom misunderstandings~, if any.
---[x] If that isn't enough, tell her that you're incredibly strong and she has basically no way to win, but that's okay because you don't actually have to fight! If she's willing to stand down, you are.

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[Genial Precis]

Sure it is. Just have Maiko look her up in the grimoire, take a team suitable to disable her, and take her out quickly.

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In which time we will have several new problems. We've seen that effect already. I don't think we can run a territory like that. We're better off solving this problem here and now. And we can. The latest iteration of my vote gives her lots of chances to stand down and talk, it intimidates, it fights as nonlethally as Yui can, it tries for a stunning attack...

Definitely an improvement from 'Surrender, and I'll forgive you the foolishness of daring to stand against me', but the horse is still way too high for Yui.

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Horses are generally too high for Yui .

 

[UbeOne]

Yui should drink more milk then.

 

[Nevill]

Horses are generally too high for Yui .

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Ponies, then?

I don't think we should be filling Momoko's shoes in that exact way.

I kinda like the part of Elephant Parade's vote - the style of it, if anything. I pasted it for reference as you were typing. 'The rightful ruler of Nagamioka' does not quite do it for me.

Remember how we approached Kaede. There was no 'high and mighty' in it, yet the message came across.

The latest iteration of my vote gives her lots of chances to stand down and talk, it intimidates, it fights as nonlethally as Yui can, it tries for a stunning attack...

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Yeah, when it comes to fighting I have way less problems with the new iteration.
Now, to decide on the approach to take when talking to her, so that it would not lead to fighting...

 

[Genial Precis]

Yeah, when it comes to fighting I have way less problems with the new iteration.
Now, to decide on the approach to take when talking to her, so that it would not lead to fighting...

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I'm all ears for alternative approaches. I believe a certain level of assertiveness is called for, however.

Edit:
How do you feel about a line like the following, for emphasizing the possibility of de-escalation?
- [] Brainmail...
-- [] Inform her that you are Yui Aikawa and your group claims all Nagamioka. That said, you recruited the last girl to ambush you like this, so if she stands down and talks you're sure the two of you can work something out. If she continues to fight, she will lose. You'll do your best to compel her surrender or disable her safely, but you are unsure of your ability to avoid badly injuring her.

 

[Redshirt Army]

I am concerned that if we use wide/diffuse beams that do blunt force instead of high penetration they'll still have enough energy in them to shatter a soul gem, and be more likely to do so since they're hitting a girl's entire surface area. Yui can take blasting a girl to bits as long as she knows they can get better, but accidentally killing someone would stand a good chance of breaking her emotionally until her support crew can piece her back together, which could easily be days.

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Unlikely. I ran the math on soul gem hardness that Echo gave us, and if you're applying enough pressure to crack ruby, you'd long since have pulped the rest of a human body.

 

[redzonejoe]

Thanks. It's not like I'm enamored with that precise vote, I just agree with the intent behind it. If you come up with something less hostile than the current leading vote, then you'll have my support.

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Apparently I need to take this back, because...

[X] In your cheeriest tone, brainmail the railguca.
-[X] Welcome her to Nagamioka and ask if she's okay.
-[X] Tell her there's no need to be scared. You're not going to kick her out unless she keeps attacking you.
-[X] You just want to talk.
[X] If she throws the shrapnel at you, sweep it aside but don't retaliate.
[X] Keep an eye on those large piles, though, and destroy them if she doesn't stop attacking.

Click to shrink...

That's probably a step or two too far in the other direction. Girl still attacked us (and Minami) unprovoked with borderline lethal force. That's not okay.

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This. A bit too soft now, and no details about combat tactics if necessary or power experimentation.

I've also slightly softened the tone of the demands to stand down and specifically brought up the entirely possible outcome of recruiting this girl. I've added a step of escalation, the possibility of a warning shot from Minami, and changed targeting to extremities if we actually shoot her. That is something Tomo can heal, at least. And I removed the hardball label, since it added nothing that I could discern.

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Thanks! Its much better now, to the point where I'm not really fussed if your vote wins anymore. It's still not quite what I want, but...

Edit: This is what I believe Yui is like:

-[x] Play softball.
--[x] Ask her why she's attacking you. Clear up ~wacky sitcom misunderstandings~, if any.
---[x] If that isn't enough, tell her that you're incredibly strong and she has basically no way to win, but that's okay because you don't actually have to fight! If she's willing to stand down, you are.

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HOW DID I MISS THIS.

Somebody edit this into genial's longer vote please, writing this response took all my current mental and technical processing power. Both my new old phone and I are exhausted.