Playing in the Sun (Gamer/Exalted SI)

Yes, i know.

What i was saying is that if the Jade Lion see him use Gaia's Charms being an Akuma is a possible explanation.

Another possible explanation is that he learned Primordial Principle Emulation.
PPE is an Essence 6 charm, and I have no doubt the Yozi keep careful track of Essence 6 Celestial Exalted and Solar Circle Sorcerers.
And, even if he were on that list, the Great Curse prevents that charm from being used to learn the charms of non-Yozi Primordials, so he shouldn't be able to learn Gaia's charms (this is only definitely true in regards to what they think he can do; since he doesn't have the Curse, he might be able to, but it doesn't say what the charm can do for a Solar that doesn't have it).

Him being an Akuma is the simplest explanation.
 
Actually, how does PPE work? Infernals can only learn the charmsets of Yozis that allow it; why are Solars capable of learning others? K'tula was picking up Kimbery charms before Infernals were a thing, after all.
 
Actually, how does PPE work? Infernals can only learn the charmsets of Yozis that allow it; why are Solars capable of learning others? K'tula was picking up Kimbery charms before Infernals were a thing, after all.

Well... Noone knows. Although given that K'tula only learned PPE and started acquiring Kimbery Charms as a result of no longer being human enough that her Exaltation stopped functioning properly, there's the implication that PPE somehow twists the proper structure of a Solar's Exaltation.
 
Well... Noone knows. Although given that K'tula only learned PPE and started acquiring Kimbery Charms as a result of no longer being human enough that her Exaltation stopped functioning properly, there's the implication that PPE somehow twists the proper structure of a Solar's Exaltation.
Hm. Perhaps she spoke with Kimbery personally and got her to teach her? Tempting Solars into their service is something the Yozis love doing.
 
Well... Noone knows. Although given that K'tula only learned PPE and started acquiring Kimbery Charms as a result of no longer being human enough that her Exaltation stopped functioning properly, there's the implication that PPE somehow twists the proper structure of a Solar's Exaltation.
I thought it was because she became a betentacled horror who wanted to make Solar charms for being a Betentacled horror, and could not due to the themes of solar charms, and so went and developed PPE in order to learn kimbery charms, because reasons. Her Exaltation worked, K'tula just could not make Solar charms that worked on/for a non-human body plan, due to the fact that Solar charms are for Human Excellence, Sunlight, and Perfection (or something like that)


Disclaimer: I am not an Exalted Expert, and so should one wish to know more ask the Exalted General Thread ( or Finagle, he has word of God for this Creation)
 
After twisting her body into something out of Lovecraft, K'tula found she could not innovate any new Solar Charms that would fit her new form, as Solar Charms are designed for human bodies, minds and souls - her body no longer qualified, even if (BIG if) the rest of her did. Being nuts due to the Great Curse, she strained for greater power at any cost, and found Kimbery's Charms somehow - most likely by dissecting Kimbery akuma to determine how Kimbery modified their Exaltations (similar to how Autochthon dissected 600 Lintha to learn enough about souls to begin making the Exaltations in the first place). After consolidating her research and "polishing" it to avoid unsavory interest, she developed Primordial Principle Emulation, and shortly thereafter released "polished" versions of her research to the Deliberative.

Primordial Principle Emulation can be used to gain access to the Charmset of any Primordial, IF AND ONLY IF the Solar learning PPE does NOT have the Great Curse. Solars WITH the Curse may only use PPE to unlock the Charms of Yozis, not free Primordials such as Gaia. PPE requires binding and merging with 5 different First Circles of the appropriate Yozi/Primordial, similar to this version here (but using 5 FCD instead of a TCD). To learn Malfeas Charms, for instance, would require a Neomah, a Decanthrope, a Metody, an Erymanthus, and a Noresore, for example. The XP costs for Primordial/Yozi Charms are as described in the linked version, as are the altered costs for Solar Charms; however, there is no ban against Martial Arts Form-type Charms, nor is there a ban against Sorcerous Enlightenment Charms (EXCEPT The Ebon Dragon's, due to his antithetical Essence).

PPE may be learned (Essence - 5) times, once per Yozi/Primordial; the first time PPE is learned, the Solar gains an Urge reflecting his Motivation as seen through the lens of the chosen Yozi/Primordial's themes. (If the Solar has the Motivation "Protect Creation", an appropriate Malfean Urge would be "Utterly destroy all threats to Creation".) The Solar gains Limit for ignoring this Urge and suffers appropriate Torment as a Primordial does. The first Charm learned via PPE MUST BE the First Excellency of the Yozi/Primordial in question; learning First Ebon Dragon Excellency renders the Solar a Creature of Darkness if they were not one already. Learning Charms of non-Yozi Primordials requires the permission of the Primordial in question; the Yozis are effectively unable to refuse due to their surrender oaths. PPE allows development of Heretical Charms (at a cost of 18 XP, training time (Min. Essence * 2) weeks) up to and including the THotD-T line, with the Solar able to substitute appropriate Solar Charms for Yozi/Primordial prerequisites; for instance, Unsurpassed Devil-Craft could use Craftsman Needs No Tools in place of Tool-Transcending Constructs.
 
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Yes, a Solar going Devil Tiger is weird, esp. a First Age Solar, but the looks on everyone's faces... Too bad Autobot's in Elsewhere; he'd freak.
 
A Solar going Devil-Tiger would be the Ebon Dragon's worst nightmare. As a Devil-Tiger, the Solar would be able to develop a personal (Devil-Tiger) Eternal Essence Charm, which combined with THotD-T would make them unkillable to anything not explicitly capable of killing a Primordial... which the Ebon Dragon does not have and is not capable of having... and the Solar Devil-Tiger would still have access to Holy Charms (assuming they didn't learn First Ebon Dragon Excellency) and Ghost-Eating Technique (even if they DID learn First Ebon Dragon Excellency)...
 
Actually, if it were a Solar Autochthon liked he'd probably let them emulate him. He left in the first place cause he could see the writing on the wall vis-a-vis the Solars, but part of his schtick as a primordial is transcending boundaries, even those that shouldn't be transcended. Seeing a Solar do the same thing would be intensely interesting to him, especially since it might lead to a way for him to cure his robo-cancer, which is a basic part of his nature.
 
Actually, if it were a Solar Autochthon liked he'd probably let them emulate him. He left in the first place cause he could see the writing on the wall vis-a-vis the Solars, but part of his schtick as a primordial is transcending boundaries, even those that shouldn't be transcended. Seeing a Solar do the same thing would be intensely interesting to him, especially since it might lead to a way for him to cure his robo-cancer, which is a basic part of his nature.
He also left to try and deal with his robo-cancer.
 
Three more things: First, a Solar Devil-Tiger who learns The Flame of the Rising Phoenix is freed from the Great Curse if they have it, having transcended those who bestowed the Curse. They still gain Limit and suffer self-imposed Torment for going against their Urge, however. (A Solar Devil-Tiger may NOT learn Swallowing the Scorpion under ANY circumstances; that Charm is useless to non-Infernals.)

Second, if such a transcendent being gained access to the Divine Apparatae of Periapt Surgery (currently in Lytek's office under heavy security), they would finally be able to remove the Curse from an unbound Celestial Exaltation, among other modifications. (A Solar who is not a Devil-Tiger cannot remove the Curse even with the Apparatae, though they may modify an Exaltation within the same limitations as Lytek.)

Finally, ANY Devil-Tiger (Solar, Infernal or Titanic) who achieves Essence 10 may cleanse an Exalt (of ANY type) of the Great Curse. This process costs the Devil-Tiger 66 motes, 6 Willpower and takes one full week, during which the Exalt to be cleansed resides within a Chrysalis Grotesque woven into being by the Devil-Tiger. Only one Exalt may be cleansed at a time. The Chrysalis has soak 50 B/L/A, but only 1 health level, and is destroyed immediately if targeted by Adamant/Void Countermagic; if the Chrysalis is destroyed, the Exalt immediately enters Limit Break and the Devil-Tiger suffers 1 level of unsoakable aggravated damage as feedback.
 
Finally, ANY Devil-Tiger (Solar, Infernal or Titanic) who achieves Essence 10 may cleanse an Exalt (of ANY type) of the Great Curse. This process costs the Devil-Tiger 66 motes, 6 Willpower and takes one full week, during which the Exalt to be cleansed resides within a Chrysalis Grotesque woven into being by the Devil-Tiger. Only one Exalt may be cleansed at a time. The Chrysalis has soak 50 B/L/A, but only 1 health level, and is destroyed immediately if targeted by Adamant/Void Countermagic; if the Chrysalis is destroyed, the Exalt immediately enters Limit Break and the Devil-Tiger suffers 1 level of unsoakable aggravated damage as feedback.
I'm curious where this said.
 
A Solar going Devil-Tiger would be the Ebon Dragon's worst nightmare. As a Devil-Tiger, the Solar would be able to develop a personal (Devil-Tiger) Eternal Essence Charm, which combined with THotD-T would make them unkillable to anything not explicitly capable of killing a Primordial... which the Ebon Dragon does not have and is not capable of having... and the Solar Devil-Tiger would still have access to Holy Charms (assuming they didn't learn First Ebon Dragon Excellency) and Ghost-Eating Technique (even if they DID learn First Ebon Dragon Excellency)...
Solars are already able to learn (Yozi) Eternal Essence with Primordial Principle Emulation, they don't need to be Devil Tigers to learn it. Also while for an Infernal becoming a Devil Tiger make sense, a Solar has to be mentally retarded to chose that option if he know about the Great Curse.

Torment is the Great Curse by a different name, even if fluff wise the explanation for their existance is different in pratice the effects are the same. The difference is that in this case Torment would be self inflicted and impossible to remove. Only an idiot would chose to do that to themself, because any power you gain from it isn't worth the weakness of being insane.

During the Primordial War Theion didn't surrender because it was impossible to win, at the time of the surrender victory was far from assured for the Exalted and the war could have still gone either way, he surrendered because he was under the effects of Torment. Any idiot who willingly chose to have that kind of liability deserve any shitty fate he will suffer from as a consequence of his insanity.
 
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